Eagles solve WR problems
 

[url="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2370849"]Eagles sign Jabar Gaffney[/url]

:lol:

Re: Eagles solve WR problems
 

beat me to it... b@st@rd!

Re: Eagles solve WR problems
 

yeah espn says it solves their problems...think again

Re: Eagles solve WR problems
 

Yeah...their problem is "solved".

Re: Eagles solve WR problems
 

Yeah, those Florida receivers really burn the NFL up! I wish we had one! I mean, unlike the eagles, we wouldn't even need him to be a number one receiver. We would be TRULY unstoppable if we had just one high round Florida receiver on the roster.

Re: Eagles solve WR problems
 

Maybe they'll go after Jacobs too.

Re: Eagles solve WR problems
 

Look at those fiscally responsible Eagles! Saving draft picks, not paying out huge bonuses, AND solving their need for a number 1 WR!!! Brilliant!!!
No Super Bowl trophy, No Championship since '61 - But DAMN look at that cap space!!!


I bet Lenny P and Peter K have to change their shorts after saying how brilliant this move was as compared to the over paid receivers obtained by the Skins.

I am serious - watch one of them write how Gaffney was comparable in talent but a better deal then either R-El or Lloyd.

Re: Eagles solve WR problems
 

when i think of gaffney, i think of that guy in your fantasy league you take when 4 of your WRs are injured and there's just no one else left to sign.

Re: Eagles solve WR problems
 

Yea they're problem is solved alright...
Jabar Gaffney's totals from 2002-2005 (4 seasons) with the Texans:
171 for 2009 yards 11.7 avg 7 TDs
Santana Moss totals from 2002-2005 with Jets/Redskins:
235 for 3899 yards 16.6 avg 28 TDs
Brandon Lloyd totals from 2003-2005 (3 seasons) with 49ers:
105 for 1510 yards 14.4 avg 13 TDs
Greg Lewis totals from 2003-2005 with Philly:
71 for 839 yards 11.8 avg 1 TD

heres a current list of Philly's WR core from nfl.com:
Reggie Brown 2 yrs exp
Carl Ford 2 yrs exp
Michael Gasperson 1 yr exp
Jabar Gaffney 4 yrs exp
Greg Lewis 4 yrs exp
Darnerian McCants 5 yrs exp
Billy McMullen 4 yrs exp
Todd Pinkston 6 yrs exp

Re: Eagles solve WR problems
 

[QUOTE=JoeRedskin]Look at those fiscally responsible Eagles! Saving draft picks, not paying out huge bonuses, AND solving their need for a number 1 WR!!! Brilliant!!!
No Super Bowl trophy, No Championship since '61 - But DAMN look at that cap space!!!


I bet Lenny P and Peter K have to change their shorts after saying how brilliant this move was as compared to the over paid receivers obtained by the Skins.

I am serious - watch one of them write how Gaffney was comparable in talent but a better deal then either R-El or Lloyd.[/QUOTE]

I'm with ya, JoeRedskin. I get so tired of the iggle-love these guys show around this time of year. How did that TO thing work out for ya, ya jerks?!?!

Re: Eagles solve WR problems
 

[QUOTE=Warpath]
heres a current list of Philly's WR core from nfl.com:
Reggie Brown 2 yrs exp
Carl Ford 2 yrs exp
Michael Gasperson 1 yr exp
Jabar Gaffney 4 yrs exp
Greg Lewis 4 yrs exp
Darnerian McCants 5 yrs exp
Billy McMullen 4 yrs exp
Todd Pinkston 6 yrs exp[/QUOTE]

:lol: :laughing2 :lol:

Eagles = :Flush:

Re: Eagles solve WR problems
 

im trying to find one receiver in that mix better than our top 3

Re: Eagles solve WR problems
 

Jabar Gaffney is a lot better than people give him credit. You got to keep in mind that the Texans were a bad team through and through. Gaffney will certainly do better with the Eagles. Of course he is no replacement for T.O. but I can see him collecting 60 balls and 800 yards.

Re: Eagles solve WR problems
 

note to self, assign our top cb to their one mediocre+ receiver. hahhahaha(evil laugh)

Re: Eagles solve WR problems
 

of course. the most dangerous receiver on their team is no doubt Brian W.

Re: Eagles solve WR problems
 

[QUOTE=Monksdown]im trying to find one receiver in that mix better than our top 3[/QUOTE]

Well, since Darnarien is a "Big" WR - he automatically qualifies as better than anything we got since (Per Peter King) he would be a better match up against Roy Williams. And don't forget, according to Lenny P., Gaffney (6'1" 205) "bring[s] some size to an Eagles wide receiver contingent that collectively lacks that commodity." Six foot, one inch and two hundred five pounds!!! That is just monsterous!!

Look out Sean Taylor, Jabar is gonna rock your world.

Re: Eagles solve WR problems
 

They've had wide receiver issues ever since Reid has been head coach, except of course Owens' first year with the eagles. Since it's been such a problem for this long, wouldn't you think they would hire someone to just specialize in evaluating the wr talent (their own wr, in fa, and in the draft)? Nothing they've been doing is helping, it's just making it worse.

Re: Eagles solve WR problems
 

[QUOTE=saden1]Jabar Gaffney is a lot better than people give him credit. You got to keep in mind that the Texans were a bad team through and through. Gaffney will certainly do better with the Eagles. Of course he is no replacement for T.O. but I can see him collecting 60 balls and 800 yards.[/QUOTE]
The Eagles Pre- TO years: (REC, YDS, YD/REC, TD)

2003
Freddie Mitchell: 35, 498, 14.2, 2
Todd Pinkston: 36, 575, 16.0, 2
James Thrash: 49, 558 11.4, 1

2002
Antonio Freeman: 46, 600, 13.0, 4
Freddie Mitchell: 12, 105, 8.8, 0
Todd Pinkston: 60, 798, 13.3, 7
James Thrash: 52, 635 12.2 6

Sorry, I just don't think Gaffney gets 60 balls in this system. 40-50 for 500 yards. If he gets 60, he is their number one receiving option and I can live with that!

Westbrook's numbers were inflated b/c teams had to take Owens into account. W/ Owens in 2004, Westbrook had 71 receptions. W/o Owens in 2003, Westbrook had 37 receptions.

Much as I hate the guy, I can't deny his talent - Owens created real offensive match-up problems for teams opposing the eagles. They have no such alternate option now. Teams will focus on Westbrook and matchup on the WR's and not one of them is going to require double coverage.

Archuletta and Marcus take out Westbrook, Our corners match-up one on one leaving Taylor to inflict incredible amounts of pain on the Eagle's "hey, send me over the middle" WR's.

Where's the picture of Todd "please don't hurt me" Pinkston? Just label it "Eagle Highligts - 2006".

Re: Eagles solve WR problems
 

2004 regular season. Brian Westbrook had 73 receptions for 703 yards in just 13 games. He had 6 receiving td's. 7 receptions of 20+ yds. and 3 receptions of 40+ yards. Any wide receiver in their scheme compliments Brian, not the other way around.

Dont forget about Brian.

Re: Eagles solve WR problems
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72][url="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2370849"]Eagles sign Jabar Gaffney[/url]

:lol:[/QUOTE]


they went down this road before. without a true number 1 receiver mcnabb seems to have trouble getting the ball to them against tougher defensive teams. gaffney is a nice player, but is clearly not going to threaten anyones defense. unless brown steps up bigtime, they have all complementary receivers

Re: Eagles solve WR problems
 

[QUOTE=saden1]Jabar Gaffney is a lot better than people give him credit. You got to keep in mind that the Texans were a bad team through and through. Gaffney will certainly do better with the Eagles. Of course he is no replacement for T.O. but I can see him collecting 60 balls and 800 yards.[/QUOTE]

That would easily be a career year for him.

Either way he's not someone to be too overly concerned about, that was the point of the thread.

Re: Eagles solve WR problems
 

[QUOTE=Warpath]Yea they're problem is solved alright...
Jabar Gaffney's totals from 2002-2005 (4 seasons) with the Texans:
171 for 2009 yards 11.7 avg 7 TDs
Santana Moss totals from 2002-2005 with Jets/Redskins:
235 for 3899 yards 16.6 avg 28 TDs
Brandon Lloyd totals from 2003-2005 (3 seasons) with 49ers:
105 for 1510 yards 14.4 avg 13 TDs
Greg Lewis totals from 2003-2005 with Philly:
71 for 839 yards 11.8 avg 1 TD

heres a current list of Philly's WR core from nfl.com:
Reggie Brown 2 yrs exp
Carl Ford 2 yrs exp
Michael Gasperson 1 yr exp
Jabar Gaffney 4 yrs exp
Greg Lewis 4 yrs exp
Darnerian McCants 5 yrs exp
Billy McMullen 4 yrs exp
Todd Pinkston 6 yrs exp[/QUOTE]


again, a group of 3 and 4 type receivers except for brown. nobody knows what pinkston is going to have this year either

Re: Eagles solve WR problems
 

[QUOTE=saden1]Jabar Gaffney is a lot better than people give him credit. You got to keep in mind that the Texans were a bad team through and through. Gaffney will certainly do better with the Eagles. Of course he is no replacement for T.O. but I can see him collecting 60 balls and 800 yards.[/QUOTE]


i think that is highly optimistic. more likely 20-30 receptions unless they really try to force the ball in to him

Re: Eagles solve WR problems
 

I just hope I get a high enough pick in this year's Warpath Fantasy Football league to get Gaffney in the first round before someone else snatches him up.

Re: Eagles solve WR problems
 

[QUOTE=Monksdown]2004 regular season. Brian Westbrook had 73 receptions for 703 yards in just 13 games. He had 6 receiving td's. 7 receptions of 20+ yds. and 3 receptions of 40+ yards. Any wide receiver in their scheme compliments Brian, not the other way around.

Dont forget about Brian.[/QUOTE]


yup.. but they cannot count onhim taking a whole season of pounding the ball and being their primary receiving threat. he keeps breaking down. he needs to be a constant threat, but a decoy sometimes to spare him.
problem is that without TO he is the only real threat all the time. brown could step up, but needs to prove he cando it consistently or it is all on westbrook

Re: Eagles solve WR problems
 

Lol

Re: Eagles solve WR problems
 

[QUOTE=Monksdown]2004 regular season. Brian Westbrook had 73 receptions for 703 yards in just 13 games. He had 6 receiving td's. 7 receptions of 20+ yds. and 3 receptions of 40+ yards. Any wide receiver in their scheme compliments Brian, not the other way around.

Dont forget about Brian.[/QUOTE]I disagree - In 2004, Westbrook and Owens fed off each other in the Eagles offense. In the Eagles scheme, Owens and Westbrook presented two very distinct/different ways to attack a defense. They were each a gamebreaker. In the Eagles offense, each was a top weapon and benefitted greatly from the fact that focusing a defense on a great pass catching RB created very exploitable openings for a top WR and vice/versa. Take away one and the other would burn you.

Now, w/ the WR "threats" so limited, defenses can focus on Westbrook. He will still get some receptions and yards. W/o a WR focusing the attention outside and deep, however, he won't find as many holes in the coverage and won't be stuck one on one w/ LB's. Instead, D's will now be able to bracket him. Their TE's are good but not gamebreakers. Good, disciplined defense will keep this team from racking up points.

And Sean Taylor keep their WR's arms shorter than an Eagles fan's penis.

Re: Eagles solve WR problems
 

I agree with Matty that Gaffney isn't a great wideout and doesn't solve the Eagles problems.

But, keep in mind two things that have been alluded to already: (1) Gaffney averaged about 40 catches a year with David Carr under center (which is pretty good); and (2) Philadelphia had a decent offense before T.O.

As to the second point, I think a lot of people are underestimating the Eagles. Prior to T.O.'s arrival, the Eagles had a good offense. The Eagles were decent when they had Freddie Mitchell, Todd Pinkston, and James Thrash at wideout - that says a lot. They spread out the ball between those awful wideouts, Brian Westbrook, Chad Lewis, and L.J. Smith and did just fine. Were they a high powered offense? No. Were they an explosive offense? No. But they were good enough to propel them to the playoffs for several consecutive seasons.

Don't think the Eagles' offense is going to be a cakewalk. Remember, we barely beat them when McNabb was coming off an injury, Todd Pinkston was on IR, their #1 wideout was a rookie, and their offensive line was mangled. While our offense and defense are improved and I'm not terribly worried about the Eagles, I wouldn't assume that we will have an easy time beating them.

Re: Eagles solve WR problems
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha]As to the second point, I think a lot of people are underestimating the Eagles. [/QUOTE]

That's what I was kind of worrying about, too. But I don't think gibbs lets anything get him overconfident over any opposing team, especially any in the nfc east.

... but I was also more worried in the idea that they're so bad that they can't be as bad as they seem. I don't actually believe that they are good at all. The question is: how bad off are they ?

Re: Eagles solve WR problems
 

[QUOTE=warriorzpath]That's what I was kind of worrying about, too. But I don't think gibbs lets anything get him overconfident over any opposing team, especially any in the nfc east.

... but I was also more worried in the idea that they're so bad that they can't be as bad as they seem. I don't actually believe that they are good at all. The question is: how bad off are they ?[/QUOTE]

I doubt Gibbs underestimates anyone. I think he has a lot of respect for the Eagles.

I don't think they're bad off at all. With a lot of people returning from IR and the acquisitions of Darren Howard and Shawn Barber, I would say they're better off than they were before they got T.O. There will be a drop off from their 2004 offensive producion, but they're still a force to be reckoned with. They worry me more than the Giants or Cowboys.

Re: Eagles solve WR problems
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha]I agree with Matty that Gaffney isn't a great wideout and doesn't solve the Eagles problems.

But, keep in mind two things that have been alluded to already: (1) Gaffney averaged about 40 catches a year with David Carr under center (which is pretty good); and (2) Philadelphia had a decent offense before T.O.

As to the second point, I think a lot of people are underestimating the Eagles. Prior to T.O.'s arrival, the Eagles had a good offense. The Eagles were decent when they had Freddie Mitchell, Todd Pinkston, and James Thrash at wideout - that says a lot. They spread out the ball between those awful wideouts, Brian Westbrook, Chad Lewis, and L.J. Smith and did just fine. Were they a high powered offense? No. Were they an explosive offense? No. But they were good enough to propel them to the playoffs for several consecutive seasons.

Don't think the Eagles' offense is going to be a cakewalk. Remember, we barely beat them when McNabb was coming off an injury, Todd Pinkston was on IR, their #1 wideout was a rookie, and their offensive line was mangled. While our defense is improved and I'm not terribly worried about the Eagles, I wouldn't assume that we will have an easy time beating them.[/QUOTE] Yes and no.

Yes, they had a solid offense pre-Owens. It plays disciplined, solid ball. It spreads the ball around and will beat you w/ a thousand cuts. BUT, one of the reasons the could do that was a defense that was just plain nasty. A D-Line that could rush the passer and top corners that could run support and hold down top receivers. I just don't see the defense being on the same level as it used to be. Darren Howard is NOT Hugh Douglas 2.0. Kearse in 06 is not the same as Kearse in 04. I think this defense is now older, slower and just doesn't have the talent level it used to.

Don't get me wrong - Reid is a good coach, this team will play solid ball and will not beat itself. Yes - we had a tough time with them last year. I think that was more on our offense than b/c them out playing us.

B/c of its coaching, Philly is never going to be a cake walk. I just think its talent level, due to age and the failure of younger players to step up, is not up to the same level as in previous years. Owens or no Owens, Gaffney is simply not an upgrade in any sense of the word; he is simply more of the same.

Re: Eagles solve WR problems
 

[QUOTE=JoeRedskin]I think this defense is now older, slower and just doesn't have the talent level it used to.[/QUOTE]

What are their weak points? Not coaching, since their D-coordinator is a stud. Their secondary is pretty damn good with Sheppard, Brown, Dawkins, and Lewis. Their linebacking corps of Jones, Barber, and Trotter are solid. Their D-line of Kearse, Howard, Patterson, and Walker are solid.

Granted, they are older, but I don't see any glaring weaknesses. While their defense has been their strong point (as you point out) and may be aging, I still view it as pretty formidable.

Re: Eagles solve WR problems
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha]I doubt Gibbs underestimates anyone. I think he has a lot of respect for the Eagles.

I don't think they're bad off at all. With a lot of people returning from IR and the acquisitions of Darren Howard and Shawn Barber, I would say they're better off than they were before they got T.O. There will be a drop off from their 2004 offensive producion, but they're still a force to be reckoned with. They worry me more than the Giants or Cowboys.[/QUOTE]

Yes, I agree that he usually doesn't underestimate anyone, especially an nfc east opponent.

But I was referring to their offense and specifically wr corps as being weak. How weak? I wouldn't know until they played.

Re: Eagles solve WR problems
 

their WR core is always weak as far as talent is concerned, but lucky for them they have a QB who loves to distribute the ball evenly and can run around enough until sOMEONE is open.

Re: Eagles solve WR problems
 

[QUOTE=PWNED]their WR core is always weak as far as talent is concerned, but lucky for them they have a QB who loves to distribute the ball evenly and can run around enough until sOMEONE is open.[/QUOTE]

That finally caught up to them last year.

Re: Eagles solve WR problems
 

Guys McCants just signed a one year deal to stay with the Eagles and we should be worried. He caught five passes for 87 yards last year, his longest 22 and his average is 17.4. If would put his whole season into just one game against us he could have a great game. Remember Gardner burned us for a TD last year in a preseason game and McCant could do the same. Oh, thats if they have not cut him before our game to make room for another player.

Re: Eagles solve WR problems
 

DAMMIT, the seasons over :doh:

LOL anyone check mccants blog lately?

Re: Eagles solve WR problems
 

[QUOTE=firstdown]Guys McCants just signed a one year deal to stay with the Eagles and we should be worried. He caught five passes for 87 yards last year, his longest 22 and his average is 17.4. If would put his whole season into just one game against us he could have a great game.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, Santana beats him with stats of individual games alone.

Re: Eagles solve WR problems
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha]What are their weak points? Not coaching, since their D-coordinator is a stud. Their secondary is pretty damn good with Sheppard, Brown, Dawkins, and Lewis. Their linebacking corps of Jones, Barber, and Trotter are solid. Their D-line of Kearse, Howard, Patterson, and Walker are solid.

Granted, they are older, but I don't see any glaring weaknesses. While their defense has been their strong point (as you point out) and may be aging, I still view it as pretty formidable.[/QUOTE]Again, I don't disagree with you that they are not team that can be taken for granted. I just don't think they are the force they used to be. As for the secondary: Brown took a major step back last year, Dawkins is Dawkins but he is a year older. I disagree that Jones, Barber and Trotter are "solid", in fact, I would suggest that they are the weakpoint of this D. Trotter is a run into the gap and tackle in the backfield Mike - coverage? Not Trotter's game. Barber is coming off a major injury and is older than he was the last time he tried that - the guy was contemplating retirement. Jones as your Sam? No thnk you - he can be (and I'm pretty sure he was) pushed around by big the TE's and (I think) he was not that great as a pass rusher. I think the D-Line is average at best - I am betting they will not get 16 games out of Howard (maybe 10) and even in those he will not be a game changer, just a good solid DE (Daniels on 'roids). As for Kearse, I'm sorry he just doesn't have it anymore. He was a non-factor last year and I don't see him turning it around.

Other than Sheppard, their D last year had all its starters - and still got shoved around. Their FA pick ups this year (Barber, Howard) simply don't look to me to be major upgrades over what they had last year.

As I said, I think they will play solid disciplined defense BUT I just don't see any game breakers on that side of the ball like they had in 04 with Kearse, Burgess, Corey Simon, Trotter, Sheppard and Dawkins. The only two from that list that, IMHO, will be better than average in 06 will be Sheppard and Dawkins.

On offense, its the Donovan & Brian show. Gaffney is maybe as good as the 03 version of Thrash - but that's it. Spread the ball all you want - but this offense will be very stoppable by a disciplined, attacking Skins defense (key being disciplined) and I just don't see their defense keepping pace with the Al Saunders inspired and Portis, Moss, Cooley driven offense of the Skins.

Re: Eagles solve WR problems
 

i agree that i truly feel, at least on paper at this point, that the skins SHOULD beat every team they play, indy included.