Is Owens that good or the new Eagles CB's that bad?
 

From John Clayton at ESPN.com listing Eagles as 9th most improved team in offseason ('Skins were number 4 behind Detroit, Oakland, Atlanta):

"Philadelphia needed to make some bold moves to stay ahead in the NFC East, which has suddenly become one of the league's most competitive divisions. Everyone noticed in minicamp the separation Terrell Owens was getting on cornerbacks. Donovan McNabb has never had that type of receiver in his five seasons in Philadelphia."

So, would he have gotten separation against Taylor and Vincent? Will he get it against Smoot and Springs?

Or - Will Coles, Taylor and Gardner have a field day against Philly's new DB's?

I personally think Owens is going to improve the Eagles. I think he and McNabb will be scary good together because both McNabb and Reid won't put up w/ TO's bs. McNabb's competitive fire is more akin to TO's then Garcia's was. Also, McNabb will not let himself be outworked by anyone on his team. For all his failings as a QB, McNabb is the leader of the Eagles in a way that Garcia wasn't for the 49'ers (Not trying to knock on Garcia, I think he is a limited but quality QB and that TO's attitude towards him was/is classless).

I hope TO implodes and breaks into his "I am the greatest" mode. I just don't see it happening w/ McNabb and Reid around.

Also, I think Springs matches up against TO pretty well. Even if TO gets the better of him in some of their battles, I don't see TO being a "playmaker" against Springs. (Side notes: For JoeCrisp - How did Springs look in our minicamp? For everyone - Do you think Springs can get back to being a "shutdown corner" in the league?)

With that said, I think the Eagle DB's are going to be known as the "English Muffin Boys" because they gonna get toasted by everybody. Even if they were on the downside and gonna be overpriced - letting BOTH Vincent and Taylor go is gonna be the downfall of this team. Johnson will either have to blitz less and scheme help to the CB's OR bitz 9 each play and pray for a sack before anybody can get open.

This the first time Philly has gone out and tried to improve the team in a big way. Seeing as how they had been successful for several years I think this move will prove either to be a giant success or a total failure. There won't be much in between. Really though...it's looking like a two horse race in the NFC East. With the Giants most experienced quatreback being the Bachelor and the 'Boys sticking to their guns on Carter can anyone honestly expect them to compete? Parcells is a great coach but he caught the football karma last year and karma always comes back on you. They CANNOT be taken seriously with Carter at QB.

The Eagles are going to have to hope for a lot of pressure with their front 7. They still have Brian Dawkins in the secondary, so lets not forget about him. But Dawkins cant cover everyone, expecially a system where Gibbs has a Hback running around. And more importantly, and hback picking up blitzes to keep the QB protected. Even with Kearse the Eagles D has taken a hit, they lost their leader in Emmons and both starting corners. Their offence now has a big threat receiver, McNabb is always a threat, but we'll see if they have a running game. I think the Skins are a more complete team, but no one can argue that the Eagles have been the best team in the NFL for the last three years (recordwise ateleast)

the eagles DB's will be fine. they have some good young talent. i wouldnt bet on them being toasted much. thats weak. do you think andy reid would have let vincent and taylor go if he didnt know he had good backups in the eings for the last two years? come on fellas. Springs in a word is garbage. Walt Harris will have to be our other corner by week 8 remeber that quote.

P.S. Garcia is garbage too. Him and Quincy Carter are in the same league.

Joetheismanfan:

Why do you think Springs is garbage? Do you mean injury-prone? Or is it something else about him you don't like? I don't know much about him, but he made the probowl a few seasons back...

[QUOTE=joethiesmanfan]P.S. Garcia is garbage too. Him and Quincy Carter are in the same league.[/QUOTE]

You're talking about Jeff Garcia? I'm not so sure I would say he's in the same league as Carter. That seems like a pretty bold statement to make

Well springs doesnot impress me. I always remember him getting burnt. remember the T.O. sharpie incident? Springs was the victim and the victim alot that game. He is no where near Smootie or Champ him and Walt Harris right now are bout the same. You can't have a cb injury prone that's an oxymoron. If A CB HURT THEN HE BURNT. As far as Garcia compare him to Tim Rattay. Tim who??? He had enough sense to understand if you losing and T.O. is on your team it makes logical sense to throw him the ball. That would be like Ramsey not throwing to coles while we are behind. You mean there weren't plays designed for T.O.? If you lose and dont use your most potent weapon i blame the coach but when Rattay comes in and does better getting the ball to T.O. and the team improves I blame bubble bum armed Garcia.

P.S. except smoot he the man hurt or not. The new number one corner in the league after this year. my next prediction.

P.S.S. my list of people i dont want to be redskins. Kordell Stewart, Garcia, Warner, Quincy Carter, Hambrick, Sapp, can yall help me add to this list so we can email it to coach Gibbs the god of all NFL coaches. then take the list personally to vinny and Dannyboy. so they don,t have any excuse for doing more Front office follies.

Just curious what your beef with Kordell is. I think he has talent and when the Bears lost, it wasn't because of him. I saw his receivers getting hit in the numbers and the ball still landed on the ground.

I don't think Garcia is that good, the thing about Quincy Carter is he's still very young and very mobile. Don't count him down just yet!

Springs has been said to be one of the most physically gifted CBs ever. He's well proportioned, fast, etc. Unfortunatly he has a body that breaks down a lot. If Springs could get to a healthy form and stay there, we'll all be saying Champ who? really soon.

JoeTheisman -

Sorry, I disagree with you on the Garcia assesment. I acknowledge he is physically limited, but the man knows his limitations and plays well within them. No, he will never be confused with Elway or even Montana but he is more than a competent starter. As I recall, he came in at the end of the year last season and played well for SF - had a QB rating over a hundred for the last four games. As for his failure to utilize TO, the two of them had so much baggage last year, SF wasn't going to go out of its way to retain either of them - Regardless of their respective talent.

As for the Eagles CB's, you may be right. I just remember reading that Brown (the high draft pick from a couple year's ago) struggled in coverage. It's entirely possible that Reid knows something no one else does. But, to this point, the new CB's haven't shown it. Neither of these guys are rookies, and they couldn't displace Taylor OR Vincent last year - Yet, now they are BOTH better than either Taylor or Vincent? Somehow, I find that hard to believe.

As for Springs, again you may be right - he may be injury prone from now on out. But as he pointed out in a recent interview, his first three years he started everygame and went to the pro bowl once. My question is whether or not he can get back to that level. Every report I have read on him is that he is fast, physical and moves well and that his only limitations stem from his recent injuries. I guess, we only see after the season starts.

P.S.: If you want to start talking about guys who should not be Redskins, go start your own thread! I wanted answers to my questions here. :food-smil

champ who?? We'll never be saying that. If he was so good knowing how valuable corners are why did they let him go he wasnt asking for too much like champ. He was expendable, he wasn't playing like Chris Mcallister. He will be good in case of an emergency. Well I tell you what Kordell has had his chances, how many do you get?
Comparison::: Remember we played San francisco Spurriers first year and T.O. had two catches for 33 yards he ran a reverse for a touch. that same year later he had the SHARPIE SHARPIE SHARPIE incident against Springs who is now immortal because of the SAHRPIE incident.. he had 6 catches for 86 yards and 2 touches off receptions. that was 2002 you tell me if Springs is garbage or not. you tell me if he can compare to Champ in any category he smiles alot but he gets burnt alot. Carter is garbage hell he is immortal for giving the Texans their first victory in their first game ever. My favorite cowboy moment ever was during that game. (Carter overtthrows the wideout and Dave Campo makes the grab on the sideline it was if he threw the ball to Campo and the receiver was wide open the ball sailed right over his head and went right into Campos arms..hahaha Dallas got beat by Houston. great qbs dont have moments like that even in highschool...Springs is a short term answer we need draft picks to get good corners and pick more than one cause they have a 50% coverage illiteracy rate.

P.S. sorry about disrespecting your thread. but look at the question is T.O. that good?
Is Jerry rice in San Fran? No why? cause T.O. is that good.

Jerry Rice isn't SF b/c it became a money/age thing. And yes, having a competent starter in the wings with TO.

As for the Springs/Sharpie incident - That's kinda the point. In 2002 and 2003, Springs was injured. The question is whether this is going to be a permanent issue for him OR were the past injuries just coincedental. Why'd Seattle let him go? Marcus Trufant AND Springs was asking too much for Seattle to pay. (Who'd they get to replace Springs? Bobby Taylor - at a much lower price then Springs).

isn't garcia leaving san fran with some stats better than montana and young? i know he owns several of that franchises single season records. i'd take garcia as the starting qb over half of the other starting qbs in the league right now. and while i agree springs is not champ, you can't really compare two different players in two different defensive schemes and their performance against a common opponent. in the second game that year against seattle, i think TO had 5 catches for only 45 yards.

now back to the original thread question, i think its a combination of both to's talent and the phili cb's lack there of. they performed decently last year while taylor and vincent were out with injuries, which kinda worked in phili's favor for them to get their young cbs some starting expirience, but they didn't show me anything that warrented the eagles letting both of their starting cbs go. and the loss of emmons really hasn't gotten enough press but that is gonna hurt their already thin lb group.

Okay, i watch football not stats. Garcia looks like a little kid getting the crap knocked out of him all the time.. interception prone everytime he gets hit i cringe he doesnot belong in the NFL. If you think springs is gonna stop T.O. then you will be disappointed we will beat the Eagles because of midseason and halftime adjustments. i don't see springs having a comeback year after 3 down years. Lito sheppard and Brown were steals in the draft. Taylor and vincent didnt play much last year. so who were the corner on the nfc east champs last year? the two they have right now. garcia is shaky and he ahd a good year or two like kurt warner but last year was obvious he sucked.

[QUOTE=joethiesmanfan]Okay, i watch football not stats. Garcia looks like a little kid getting the crap knocked out of him all the time.. interception prone everytime he gets hit i cringe he doesnot belong in the NFL. If you think springs is gonna stop T.O. then you will be disappointed we will beat the Eagles because of midseason and halftime adjustments. i don't see springs having a comeback year after 3 down years. Lito sheppard and Brown were steals in the draft. Taylor and vincent didnt play much last year. so who were the corner on the nfc east champs last year? the two they have right now. garcia is shaky and he ahd a good year or two like kurt warner but last year was obvious he sucked.[/QUOTE]

i don't know what football u watch then cuz more often than not when i saw garcia played he did pretty darn well for only having one decent wr and a solid rb. he has more than a 2 to 1 ratio of tds to ints for his career and i'm sorry if a 49er qb other than montana or young has not just any, but most of the single season records, he was doing something right. and if completing 57.4% of your passes for 2704 yards, 18tds/13 ints and running for 325 yards and 7 tds on 54 carries in only 13 games, while playing with a freaking bulging disc in his back, is somehow bad, what the heck would he have to do to be good then? is it just because he's short or something?

and with their starting cbs out and the backup "steals" in, the eagles went from 7th in the league against the pass in 2002 to 15th last year and from 4th in overall defense in 2002 to 20th last year. i for one hope they keep up with this type of "improvement."

P.S. if garcia played within his limitations he would be in the grey cup.

We seem to really be straying away from the initial question on the thread.

As good as Owens is, I'm not sold at all on the Eagles CB's. That being said however, going up against Owens every day in practice can only make them better.

winning percentage, superbowls, playoff victories, that's what i judge the venerable joe thiesman on and Garcia he dont compare to Young or Montana he does not have the ability. point blank Rattay is better than him and who is Rattay.

[QUOTE=smootsmack]As good as Owens is, I'm not sold at all on the Eagles CB's. That being said however, going up against Owens every day in practice can only make them better.[/QUOTE]

or to want to quit, lol

Personally, I think that the Eagles front office deserves a HELL of a lot of respect. I'm not convinced that losing ANYONE from that team on one particular year will hurt them much (this year Emmons). Isn't that what they said about losing Trotter, and then Hugh Douglas?


The big questions to me going into this year are:

1) Will TO be able to be the catalyst for their offense, (and can McNabb be the kind of QB everyone is already giving him credit for being)?

2) Can Kearse get be "the freak" again, after being plagued by injuries?

3) Has the REST of the NFC E done enough to improve?

[QUOTE=']<ing']

3) Has the REST of the NFC E done enough to improve?[/QUOTE]

...and in regards to that question, I'd say:

Dallas -- no
New York -- no
Washington -- In Gibbs I Trust

[QUOTE=JoeRedskin]I think Springs matches up against TO pretty well. Even if TO gets the better of him in some of their battles, I don't see TO being a "playmaker" against Springs. (Side notes: For JoeCrisp - How did Springs look in our minicamp? For everyone - Do you think Springs can get back to being a "shutdown corner" in the league?)[/QUOTE]
To answer your question, JoeRedskin (sorry it took so long!), Springs looked a little rusty at minicamp, but I don't think it was anything that a little more time back in the saddle won't help. He admitted he needs to get his legs back to playing condition, after resting them through the first minicamp to rehabilitate from foot and knee injuries he sustained during the 2003 season. In last weekend's minicamp, he seemed just a tad slow to react and accelerate to the ball. But I think that is primarily a function of his inactivity-- once he gets into the groove, and gets his conditioning where it needs to be, he should be fine.

He certainly doesn't lack for confidence. He has big plans for this season, and wants to make people forget Champ Bailey. I don't know if he reclaim that kind of Pro Bowl form, and return to being a "shutdown corner"-- but he may not need to. The addition of Sean Taylor is going to help out that secondary tremendously, as well as the creative defensive schemes of Gregg Williams-- which will feature lots of nickel, dime and quarter packages to put more speed on the field and enhance the pass rush. I don't think Springs' skills or athleticism are the problem here-- he just needs to get healthy and stay healthy. Obviously, that's a pretty tall order, considering his track record over the past few years. But if he can maintain some semblance of health and stay on the field, the Skins secondary will be fine.

As far as how all of this relates to TO, let me first address the slam put on Springs by joetheismannfan. JTF, you rely a lot upon "The Sharpie game" as your primary evidence that "Springs is garbage", citing Owens' 84 yards and 2 TDs in that game. However, you also repeatedly point out what a stud Owens is as well. Wouldn't it logically follow that if Owens is such a stud receiver, he is inevitably going to have big games against the league's top cornerbacks? That would seem to be the case.

And before we go tossing Springs into the garbage pail, let's take a look at the situation in Seattle over the past two years. Seattle has had no pass rush to speak of-- in 2002, they had not a single defensive player among the top 41 sackers in the league that season. John Randle led the team that season with 7 sacks-- tied for 20th in the NFC. It didn't get much better in 2003, either. Chike Okeafor led the team with 8 sacks, which tied him for 21st in the league. So if you thought Champ Bailey had it bad with the Redskins' anemic pass rush the past couple of years, Springs had it just as bad-- if not worse. Couple that with Springs' injury problems, and it's no wonder he's been burned a few times. Plus, giving up 84 yards and 2 TDs isn't an indication that a cornerback's career is over. As others have pointed out, Champ Bailey gave up considerable yardage and TDs to Amani Toomer over the past few years. Every corner has his nemesis, and Springs' seems to be Owens.

I expect Springs will get some help this year with TO, thanks to Sean Taylor and the additional DBs Williams will employ. Size-wise, Springs should be able to handle TO better than Smoot could, and Springs has the advantage of having played against Owens multiple times.