Preseason NFC Rankings: Trailing the Giants and Cowboys?
 

I know it's some random, know-nothing sports reporter, but he's got us in 4th place for the NFC - behind the Giants, Seahawks and Dallas.

[url]http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=cr-nfcrankings051206&prov=yhoo&type=lgns[/url]

Re: Preseason NFC Rankings: Trailing the Giants and Cowboys?
 

They have at least factual reason to say the Giants and Seahawks, but Dallas? He's just another one on their knees for TO thinking he is going to instantly make them Super Bowl contenders. I almost want to vomit saying this again, BUT YOU ONLY SIGN TO WHEN YOURE ON THE VERGE OF WINNING IT ALL. THE COWBOYS ARE NOT.

Re: Preseason NFC Rankings: Trailing the Giants and Cowboys?
 

Pretty much my thoughts too. I personally wouldn't rank the Giants above the Seahawks, but that's six of one, half dozen of another.

It's the Cowboys at #3 that irks me - I'm sorry, but until I see consistent production from between Bledsoe and TO, a much tougher offense and an actual running game out of Julius Jones, they dont' belong at #3, or anywhere above the 'Skins.

On the other hand...is it possible that the Cowboys at #3 in someway answers or explains Question #3?

Re: Preseason NFC Rankings: Trailing the Giants and Cowboys?
 

If anything, I would put maybe the Panthers there. Cowboys AGAIN will not have a running game.

Re: Preseason NFC Rankings: Trailing the Giants and Cowboys?
 

I'm cool with it. TO is an upgrade to Keyshawn and that should make an explosive offense better. However, the achilles heels of thier team last year was (1) thier OL, (2) thier inability to stop the run, and (3) thier tendency to give up big plays to Santana.

Re: Preseason NFC Rankings: Trailing the Giants and Cowboys?
 

Every year there's a surprise team. dallas isn't what I'd call a long shot, but they are a team that's capable of a lot if the o-line is healthy & can play at the level they did early last year. This may be the year the nfc trumps the afc. Don't forget about tampa & atlanta, both made some good offseason additions.

Re: Preseason NFC Rankings: Trailing the Giants and Cowboys?
 

[quote=freddyg12]...Don't forget about tampa & atlanta, both made some good offseason additions.[/quote]Yes, they will make a run but let's get off of the Vick train before his career is off track. Gruden needs to sign a competing veteran QB.

Re: Preseason NFC Rankings: Trailing the Giants and Cowboys?
 

I think he has the Skins below the Cowboys because no one gives Brunell any love. They all think he is fragile and over the hill. Tell me if you would rather have Brunell or Bledsoe? Is not Bledsoe over the hill? And how does signing T.O. instantly make you better than all of the additions the Redskins have made on both sides of the ball. Give me a break!

Re: Preseason NFC Rankings: Trailing the Giants and Cowboys?
 

Being the Dawg is good! (although it piss's me off)

Re: Preseason NFC Rankings: Trailing the Giants and Cowboys?
 

Re-cap & My ranking:

1. g-nomes - 3.
2. da-haux - 1.
3. cowgirls - 7.
4. Redskins - 2.
5. e-girls - 5.
6. da-bears - 8.
7. panthers - 4.
8. dirty-birds - 9.
9. da-bux - 6.
10. de-cards - 12.
11. aints - 13.
12. vi-queens - 10.
13. lambs - 11.
14. cheese - 14.
15. lines - 15.
16. sfs - 16.

Re: Preseason NFC Rankings: Trailing the Giants and Cowboys?
 

Ok guys let's remmember this is all paper before even tranning camp and pre season so whe have a lot way to go we have to see how the new additions on every team look once they start playign with each other.

Now I also dissagree with the ranking I for 1 don't think of NYG so high in my view there are teams that should be way higher i nour division here is my look I posted this in another thrend also.


1 Carolina (7)
2 Seattle (2)
3 Dallas (3)
4 NYG (1)
5 Washington (4)
6 Chicago (6)
7 Philadelphia (5)
8 Tampa Bay (9)
9 Atlanta (8)
10 Arizona (10)
11 STL (13)
12 NO (11)
13 Minesot (12)
14 GB (14)
15 Det (15)
16 SF (16)

Re: Preseason NFC Rankings: Trailing the Giants and Cowboys?
 

OK, if we're going on paper, then please be less homeristic and tell us why Dallas should be ranked higher than NY or Washington.

I would say on paper Carolina, Seattle and NY should be higher than the Skins and MAYBE Dallas underneath us, but no way above us.

Re: Preseason NFC Rankings: Trailing the Giants and Cowboys?
 

I also don't see Chicago being that high up. Their offense still is stagnant as hell.

Re: Preseason NFC Rankings: Trailing the Giants and Cowboys?
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection]OK, if we're going on paper, ...tell us why Dallas should be ranked higher than NY or Washington...[/quote]The only paper I'm going on is Charmin! Gibbs is our advantage.

Re: Preseason NFC Rankings: Trailing the Giants and Cowboys?
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection]
I would say on paper Carolina, Seattle and NY should be higher than the Skins and MAYBE Dallas underneath us, but no way above us.[/quote]

ok malcom let me get this right if dallas should be MAYBE underneath the Skins how come theres no way they can be above your team. by saying maybe your giving a posibility that they should be higher but then you say they's no way ??????.

Ok now with my selection on paper.

carolina it's easy they lost a key player but they gain a new weapon on KJ that will help a verry good offense and by the addition fo tehir draft picks they should lead the division.

the NFC East.

I know dallas didn't make the playoffs last year and because I'm a boys fan yopu might say I'm bias even though in my hole time in this board I've tryed to have an onjective view i nall subjects.

if you remmember correctly last year dallas played a lot of close games vs top teams that at the end lsot because of 2 things not having a closer (TO) and not having a reliable kicker (vanderjack) we lost games like Seattle, Denver and Was becasue of missed easy FG that would had turn a 9 -7 to a 11-5 team or 12 -4.

And you might say the Oline problems but Dallas didn't really had oline problems untill F.Adams went down and we had to relly on to rookies for the rest of the year Adams is back, we sign fabini and replaced Allen who we all know wasn't his all self so right now on paper I see as the best team i nour division it depends on what happends next.

Re: Preseason NFC Rankings: Trailing the Giants and Cowboys?
 

I have a problem ranking Dallas ANYwhere to be honest. Owens is so unbelievably unpredictable - if he plays to his full potential and keeps his big mouth shut, Dallas can easily take the NFC Championship. Of course all he has to do is get slightly unsatisfied with how many balls are coming his way (hehehe...think about it...) and next thing you know Dallas is in the NFC basement along with the 49ers and Detriot.

If you buy everything the sports columnists tell you, TO will be on his best behavior for the first for the first year and Dallas will dominate.

Of course these are the same guys who guaranteed us that Reggie Bush was going #1 in the draft. We all know how that turned out.

Re: Preseason NFC Rankings: Trailing the Giants and Cowboys?
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection]I also don't see Chicago being that high up. Their offense still is stagnant as hell.[/quote]

Like or not even if we're talking paper right now Chicago play in the worst division in the NFC with no real competition from any team can we agree so being that only 6 teams go to the playoffs and at the end of the day at least 1 of the central has to go to the playoffs there's no way Chicago would end as any less then 6....

Even thought talent wise there might be teams that may be better if you know a team is going to the playoffs you can't put them i na spot that they won't reach the playoffs.

That's it

Re: Preseason NFC Rankings: Trailing the Giants and Cowboys?
 

[QUOTE=D'BOYZ]ok malcom let me get this right if dallas should be MAYBE underneath the Skins how come theres no way they can be above your team. by saying maybe your giving a posibility that they should be higher but then you say they's no way ??????.[/QUOTE]

Ok, well...it's like...um...wait, what the hell are you talking about?

Re: Preseason NFC Rankings: Trailing the Giants and Cowboys?
 

[quote=D'BOYZ]ok malcom let me get this right if dallas should be MAYBE underneath the Skins how come theres no way they can be above your team. by saying maybe your giving a posibility that they should be higher but then you say they's no way ??????.[/quote]

His "maybe" was saying that the [U][I]best[/I][/U] case scenario for the Cowboys would be just behind the Skins, but in no event could they possibly be ranked ahead of the Skins.

Re: Preseason NFC Rankings: Trailing the Giants and Cowboys?
 

ok

Re: Preseason NFC Rankings: Trailing the Giants and Cowboys?
 

[quote=D'BOYZ]ok malcom let me get this right if dallas should be MAYBE underneath the Skins how come theres no way they can be above your team. by saying maybe your giving a posibility that they should be higher but then you say they's no way ??????.

Ok now with my selection on paper.

carolina it's easy they lost a key player but they gain a new weapon on KJ that will help a verry good offense and by the addition fo tehir draft picks they should lead the division.

the NFC East.

I know dallas didn't make the playoffs last year and because I'm a boys fan yopu might say I'm bias even though in my hole time in this board I've tryed to have an onjective view i nall subjects.

if you remmember correctly last year dallas played a lot of close games vs top teams that at the end lsot because of 2 things not having a closer (TO) and not having a reliable kicker (vanderjack) we lost games like Seattle, Denver and Was becasue of missed easy FG that would had turn a 9 -7 to a 11-5 team or 12 -4.

And you might say the Oline problems but Dallas didn't really had oline problems untill F.Adams went down and we had to relly on to rookies for the rest of the year Adams is back, we sign fabini and replaced Allen who we all know wasn't his all self so right now on paper I see as the best team i nour division it depends on what happends next.[/quote]

Damn, I wish I was around to answer this sooner. I'm not being a dick and straight up calling you out, but call a spade a spade. Sure, there's lots of what-ifs, coulda'-woulda'-shoulda's, but you said paper. When I hear paper, I think of stats, records, etc.

I look at the production that each receiver the Skins signed had in the past year, and add that to what Moss already had, instantly giving the Skins the best WR corps in the division. There's no one that could convince me otherwise. The Giants are a close second with Plaxico, Shockey and MAYBE Sinornice if he pans out. The Cowboys have Witten, TO and I maybe Glenn. I'm also looking at where each team finished in the offensive and defensive rankings. Sure, you could definitely say that if they had a reliable kicker they would have won more. If the Skins would have made a play here, not made a bonehead play there, they would have been 16-0. It's all hindsight now.

Talent-wise, I'd say the Giants and MAYBE the Skins have the best running attack in the NFC (I don't see Alexander repeating with Hutch gone). If Brunell stays healthy, the Skins WR corps will also be the best in the NFC. Defensively, Chicago will be the best again I believe with the Skins OR the Cowboys being right behind them. I just think that overall if you look at the signings made for the Skins and for the Cowboys, you can't honestly say that the Cowboys improved themselves better than the Skins. The Skins were better last year, had a great offeason and our even better this year. The Cowboys weren't as good last year, ALSO had a great offseason and STILL will find themselves a step behind the Skins and maybe the Giants in the NFC East.

That being said, I hate Eli Manning even more than the entire team of the Cowboys and ANY team that plays him, I want to see that bitch on his back.

Re: Preseason NFC Rankings: Trailing the Giants and Cowboys?
 

[IMG]http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/2446/pwned1vl.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Preseason NFC Rankings: Trailing the Giants and Cowboys?
 

[quote=D'BOYZ]ok malcom let me get this right if dallas should [B]be MAYBE[/B] underneath the Skins how come [B]theres[/B] no way they can be above your team. [B]by[/B] saying maybe your giving a [B]posibility[/B] that they should be higher but then you say [B]they's[/B] no way ??????.

Ok now with my selection on paper.

carolina it's easy they lost a key player but they gain a new weapon on KJ that will help a [B]verry[/B] good offense and by the addition [B]fo tehir[/B] draft picks they should lead the division.

the NFC East.

I know dallas didn't make the playoffs last year and because I'm a boys fan [B]yopu[/B] might say I'm [B]bias[/B] even though in my [B]hole[/B] time [B]in[/B] this board I've tryed to have an [B]onjective[/B] view i [B]nall [/B]subjects.

if you [B]remmember[/B] correctly last year dallas played a lot of close games vs top teams that at the end [B]lsot[/B] because of 2 things not having a closer (TO) and not having a reliable kicker ([B]vanderjack[/B]) we lost games like Seattle, Denver and Was [B]becasue[/B] of missed easy FG that would [B]had turn[/B] a 9 -7 to a 11-5 team or 12 -4.

And you might say the Oline problems but Dallas didn't really [B]had[/B] oline problems [B]untill[/B] F.Adams went down and we had to [B]relly[/B] [B]on to[/B] rookies for the rest of the year Adams is back, we sign fabini and replaced Allen who we all know wasn't his [B]all self[/B] so right now on paper I see as the best team i [B]nour[/B] division it depends on what [B]happends[/B] next.[/quote]
Cowboys fans....

Re: Preseason NFC Rankings: Trailing the Giants and Cowboys?
 

Well, it could be worse. I mean, imagine if he put us below tenth in the NFC. That would mean his opinion of us is even worse. And plus, he did say we could have the best safety tandem in the NFL, as well as saying Carter could be the most underrated pickup this offseason. That's better than saying we made some of the worst free agent moves out there. Look at it this way, if his AFC and NFC rankings were combined, at least we'd be top ten, possibly top eight.

Re: Preseason NFC Rankings: Trailing the Giants and Cowboys?
 

[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection]I look at the production that each receiver the Skins signed had in the past year, and add that to what Moss already had, instantly giving the Skins the best WR corps in the division. There's no one that could convince me otherwise.[/QUOTE]

Just imagine a matured and confident Jason Campbell slingin' the ball to those guys!

Re: Preseason NFC Rankings: Trailing the Giants and Cowboys?
 

That's honestly what I'm hoping for. I hope we get to see him play with the first team during the preseason some.

Re: Preseason NFC Rankings: Trailing the Giants and Cowboys?
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection]
[QUOTE]I look at the production that each receiver the Skins signed had in the past year, and add that to what Moss already had, instantly giving the Skins the best WR corps in the division. There's no one that could convince me otherwise. The Giants are a close second with Plaxico, Shockey and MAYBE Sinornice if he pans out. The Cowboys have Witten, TO and I maybe Glenn. I'm also looking at where each team finished in the offensive and defensive rankings. Sure, you could definitely say that if they had a reliable kicker they would have won more. If the Skins would have made a play here, not made a bonehead play there, they would have been 16-0. It's all hindsight now.[/QUOTE]

I don't like to quote the hole thing so about this matter you say that you based it on last year production of every receiver and you say you've the best WR corps in the division. But if we really go for production man your way off and to say "maybe" Glenn that's lame you know he was the 9th best receiver in the NFC and the #1 in yard per catch right.

So let's see.

WAS
Moss 1483 yds 9td
Randall El 558 1 td
Lloyd 733yds 5td
Cooley 774yds 7td
3548 yards 22td

DAL
TO 763 6td (in 7 games on pace for 1744ydss and 14td ) the TD more of a reallity than the yards being that the year before he posted 14td in 14 games and 1200yards so lets say 1500 yards for the fun of it.
Glenn 1136 7td
Witten 757 4td
Crayton/Fasano ?

3393 yards and 25 td without counting crayton or Fasano who are going to be our fourth receiver

But I agree you, that you might have the best wr corps in our division not based on talent (moss and cooley are great) but more of the system your team employs wich is more pass oriented than ours wich is more run/ clock manegment.

And I'm not playing what if scenarios I'm playing facts games with FG of no more than 30+ yards that every kicker with no wind should make that resulted in a loss the denver game shouldn't had gone to OT if the FG was made with less then 3 min to end the game, made any of the 2 missed field goals you don't go to OT, seattle game make the FG at least you push for OT even with the stupid play DB made at the end of the game or he wouldn't had been force to do it and won the game and Was leading 16 -0 even if you made your 2 miracle late td in the last 4 minutes you should had been force to make both 2 point convertion to force OT and I'm sayin 11-5 that's 2 out of 3 with a good kicker I'm not counting fumbles or other plays like the Ron dayne run that should hed been a holding.

I'm calling makable plays, not ferry land where you say if he hand't fumble or catch a pass I'm talking FG that weren't block that should be made easy not 50 yarder type 30 freaking yards. that's how close that team was for going 2 the playoffs

Re: Preseason NFC Rankings: Trailing the Giants and Cowboys?
 

But you can't count "missed field goals" if you don't count key plays for and against in the game. That's just the nature of the game.

And don't give me fantasy stats about what TO "would have had" if you're going to talk to me about fairy tales. Count what you had last year, because TO is TRULY a wild card. This is what I'm talking about when I say ON PAPER. You don't know how TO is going to behave, you don't know what kind of production he would have had after McNabb went down. Take out what you "assumed" TO would have had. Listen, it's not like I'm giving the Cowboys no credit, because my whole reason for disagreement was because you ranked them above the Skins ON PAPER.

Re: Preseason NFC Rankings: Trailing the Giants and Cowboys?
 

Also, if you're going to count TO, then you might want to count the likely scenario of what happened in Philly last year and just give him the same number of yards he had there because just the same thing could easily happen in Dallas. McNabb is also a far superior QB to Bledsoe.

ALSO, you might want to think about the fact that Dallas was FORCED to throw often because they had no running game to speak of.

Re: Preseason NFC Rankings: Trailing the Giants and Cowboys?
 

The Skins had a 1500 yard rusher and STILL managed to have a receiver rank second in the league and a tight end have almost 800 yards receiving.

This isn't me being a Cowboy hater at all. This really is just me disagreeing with you that the Cowboys should be ranked above the Skins preseason-wise.

Re: Preseason NFC Rankings: Trailing the Giants and Cowboys?
 

"you might have the best wr corps in our division not based on talent (moss and cooley are great) but more of the system your team employs wich is more pass oriented than ours wich is more run/ clock manegment. "

Then i bet you wish you had our line and Portis :D

Re: Preseason NFC Rankings: Trailing the Giants and Cowboys?
 

you say you base on paper but you still also at the end go down to scenarios saying you don't know what TO will do ok let's say paper wise ok just plain talent.
not counting what iff ok

TO > MOSS
Glenn > Randall
Crayton/ Fasano < Lloyd
Witten = Cooley
JJ/Barber < Portis
Bledsoe = Brunell ( I'm giving = because they both close bad the season even thought I prefer Bledsoe any day of the week but here we can agree to disagree)

So on Paper is this accurate?

Re: Preseason NFC Rankings: Trailing the Giants and Cowboys?
 

HAHAHA What?! I'm glad you pointed that out BSB. Our team is more pass-oriented?!?!?! Come on now. You were presenting a decent argument until that.

Re: Preseason NFC Rankings: Trailing the Giants and Cowboys?
 

[quote=D'BOYZ]you say you base on paper but you still also at the end go down to scenarios saying you don't know what TO will do ok let's say paper wise ok just plain talent.
not counting what iff ok

TO > MOSS
Glenn > Randall
Crayton/ Fasano < Lloyd
Witten = Cooley
JJ/Barber < Portis
Bledsoe = Brunell ( I'm giving = because they both close bad the season even thought I prefer Bledsoe any day of the week but here we can agree to disagree)

So on Paper is this accurate?[/quote]

Hmmmmm. I would give you that. Honestly though, I still think Moss brings more to the table. It's just TOs past dominance. I think Moss is just now beginning to dominate, but I'll give you that.

Re: Preseason NFC Rankings: Trailing the Giants and Cowboys?
 

Actually I checked the stats on the whole rush-pass thing. I retract my previous statement, HOWEVER the Skins without a doubt had a more prolific running attack and Dallas had a few more attempts than the Skins but without getting near the yardage per game the Skins had.

Re: Preseason NFC Rankings: Trailing the Giants and Cowboys?
 

The good thing is, the Cowboys were right behind the Skins in rushes for the year, but the Skins averaged more than half a yard more.

Re: Preseason NFC Rankings: Trailing the Giants and Cowboys?
 

Not everyone in the NFC will go or can go to the playoffs (or could they?) so it is only logical that at least two teams in the NFC won't make it and therefore there is really no point in placing all the teams at the top of the NFC.

It's hard to predict right now who can win the division but we certainly say Philly is the underdog in the division. The Cowboys are a good team and to discount them would be a big mistake. Remember, the last server really close games last year. The loss of the aging Larry Allen isn't as significant as some might think. The Giants overachieved last year. I'm not sure if the same can be expected from them this year, especially if their DB situation doesn't improve. Plaxico and Shockey taking plays off doesn't help either. Getting Sam Madison should help and if Arrington can get back to form, they'll have a very solid LB corp.

Re: Preseason NFC Rankings: Trailing the Giants and Cowboys?
 

I'll rank em:

1. Washington
2. Chicago
3. Carolina
4. Tampa Bay
5. Seattle
6. Dallas
7. Arizona
8. Giants
9. Falcons
10. Vikings
11. Eagles
12. Saints
13. 49ers
14. Lions
15. Rams
16. Packers

Re: Preseason NFC Rankings: Trailing the Giants and Cowboys?
 

[QUOTE=D'BOYZ][quote=TheMalcolmConnection]


I don't like to quote the hole thing so about this matter you say that you based it on last year production of every receiver and you say you've the best WR corps in the division. But if we really go for production man your way off and to say "maybe" Glenn that's lame you know he was the 9th best receiver in the NFC and the #1 in yard per catch right.

So let's see.

WAS
Moss 1483 yds 9td
Randall El 558 1 td
Lloyd 733yds 5td
Cooley 774yds 7td
3548 yards 22td

DAL
TO 763 6td (in 7 games on pace for 1744ydss and 14td ) the TD more of a reallity than the yards being that the year before he posted 14td in 14 games and 1200yards so lets say 1500 yards for the fun of it.
Glenn 1136 7td
Witten 757 4td
Crayton/Fasano ?

3393 yards and 25 td without counting crayton or Fasano who are going to be our fourth receiver

But I agree you, that you might have the best wr corps in our division not based on talent (moss and cooley are great) but more of the system your team employs wich is more pass oriented than ours wich is more run/ clock manegment.

And I'm not playing what if scenarios I'm playing facts games with FG of no more than 30+ yards that every kicker with no wind should make that resulted in a loss the denver game shouldn't had gone to OT if the FG was made with less then 3 min to end the game, made any of the 2 missed field goals you don't go to OT, seattle game make the FG at least you push for OT even with the stupid play DB made at the end of the game or he wouldn't had been force to do it and won the game and Was leading 16 -0 even if you made your 2 miracle late td in the last 4 minutes you should had been force to make both 2 point convertion to force OT and I'm sayin 11-5 that's 2 out of 3 with a good kicker I'm not counting fumbles or other plays like the Ron dayne run that should hed been a holding.

I'm calling makable plays, not ferry land where you say if he hand't fumble or catch a pass I'm talking FG that weren't block that should be made easy not 50 yarder type 30 freaking yards. that's how close that team was for going 2 the playoffs[/QUOTE]

Trying to guess what TO WOULD have done had he played the entire season is just retarded. TO racked up the stats that he got, nothing more, nothing less. Like Malcom said, he's a complete wildcard, so arguing that he'll produce what he produced last year for the first 7 games and the continue that pace for the rest of the season is just dumb. It's dumb with any player, let alone TO.

Arguing that you would have had such-and-such a record if this play had gone that way or that one went this way is just as equally pointless. Often times football is a game of chance, inches, and which way the ball bounces. Every single team in the NFL could argue that "Well, had we just gotten that play right or had this field goal go this way, then we would've made it." You're blinded by your love for the Cowboys and your line of reasoning would lead to justifying all 32 teams as Super Bowl winners last year.

A Super Bowl champion team is one that is talented, of course. But they're also the one that can overcome the missed field goal, busted play, etc. That's what the game is really about - how is your team going to overcome the adversity, not what excuses can we make to justify whatever random record you pull out of your ass.

Re: Preseason NFC Rankings: Trailing the Giants and Cowboys?
 

[quote=mheisig][quote=D'BOYZ]

Trying to guess what TO WOULD have done had he played the entire season is just retarded. TO racked up the stats that he got, nothing more, nothing less. Like Malcom said, he's a complete wildcard, so arguing that he'll produce what he produced last year for the first 7 games and the continue that pace for the rest of the season is just dumb. It's dumb with any player, let alone TO.

Arguing that you would have had such-and-such a record if this play had gone that way or that one went this way is just as equally pointless. Often times football is a game of chance, inches, and which way the ball bounces. Every single team in the NFL could argue that "Well, had we just gotten that play right or had this field goal go this way, then we would've made it." You're blinded by your love for the Cowboys and your line of reasoning would lead to justifying all 32 teams as Super Bowl winners last year.

A Super Bowl champion team is one that is talented, of course. But they're also the one that can overcome the missed field goal, busted play, etc. That's what the game is really about - how is your team going to overcome the adversity, not what excuses can we make to justify whatever random record you pull out of your ass.[/quote]It reminds me of my friend who projected Larry Johnson's stats over 16 games...leaving his numbers from the first 7 games where he backed up Holmes. That's pretty retarded.