Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

I am just thinking outloud and wondering how Brunell will fit as the QB in Saunders's offense. When I think of Brunell, I think of a QB who uses his legs to get into a passing rhythm (sp). And when I think of a Saunders offense (using KC and STL to go by), I think of a true pocket QB that rarely needs mobility (for rhythm or otherwise).

Will Saunders be able to develop Brunell as a qb in his offense, considering how old Brunell is ? And I haven't heard much said about Brunell commenting on the Saunder's offense or vice versa.

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

Trent Green and Brunell are the same age believe it or not... Brunell is a smart veteran QB. I'm sure he won't have a problem picking up this offense, and I'm sure Saunders won't have a problem bringing out the best in him.

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

[quote=Mattyk72]Trent Green and Brunell are the same age believe it or not... Brunell is a smart veteran QB. I'm sure he won't have a problem picking up this offense, and I'm sure Saunders won't have a problem bringing out the best in him.[/quote]

You should be right - it's not like Brunell is learning a totally different offense. As we all probably know by now, gibbs and saunders share many of the same philosphies.

Hopefully they both will adjust a little to each other's strengths.

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

[quote=Mattyk72]Trent Green and Brunell are the same age believe it or not... Brunell is a smart veteran QB. I'm sure he won't have a problem picking up this offense, and I'm sure Saunders won't have a problem bringing out the best in him.[/quote]

Agreed, Brunell is one of the smartest QB's in the league. Its just a matter of the O-line keeping him protected. I just hope Cambell goes in to training camp and exceeds expectations, so he can be ready to take the job if Mark goes down.

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

You raised a very interesting question, "How will Brunnel fit in the new offense?". Brunnel had a comeback season last year and fizzed at the end. Why are we so optomistic that he will excel in the new offense? I'm worried that he might be the weak link in the offense. They have upgraded the playbook and the receiving corps but the field general is still the same with dimenished skills. Cambell is ready yet. I fear that Collins might see significant playing time next year. Especially if Brunnel reverts back to form.

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

[quote=dirthogs311]Agreed, Brunell is one of the smartest QB's in the league. Its just a matter of the O-line keeping him protected. I just hope Cambell goes in to training camp and exceeds expectations, so he can be ready to take the job if Mark goes down.[/quote]

I think that's why Todd Collins was brought in - as a safety net.

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

[quote=warriorzpath]I am just thinking outloud and wondering how Brunell will fit as the QB in Saunders's offense. When I think of Brunell, I think of a QB who uses his legs to get into a passing rhythm (sp). And when I think of a Saunders offense (using KC and STL to go by), I think of a true pocket QB that rarely needs mobility (for rhythm or otherwise).

Will Saunders be able to develop Brunell as a qb in his offense, considering how old Brunell is ? And I haven't heard much said about Brunell commenting on the Saunder's offense or vice versa.[/quote]

At Auburn was Campbell more of a pocket passer or was he more mobile? I almost more concerned about how he will do in Saunder's system for the long term. I agree that Brunell will probably make the adjustment rather easily.

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

at auburn campbell played in 3 different offenses in 4 years.more of a traditional pocket passer.brunell doesnt run as well as he once did,bit still wiggles around in the pocket enough to buy time.this offense should be a good fit because there are many options on pass plays,not just one or two

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

[quote=ArtMonkDrillz]At Auburn was Campbell more of a pocket passer or was he more mobile? I almost more concerned about how he will do in Saunder's system for the long term. I agree that Brunell will probably make the adjustment rather easily.[/quote]

I wasn't really worried about Campbell because there was already some positive reports of the interaction between he and Saunders. I was a little worried about Saunders and Brunell because there wasn't any news or reported comments/interaction between those two. Maybe no news is good news ?

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

... and maybe there is such a level of confidence in Brunell from the coaching staff that this is an area (starting qb) that doesn't need to be worked on at the moment.

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

[quote=warriorzpath]... and maybe there is such a level of confidence in Brunell from the coaching staff that this is an area (starting qb) that doesn't need to be worked on at the moment.[/quote]

Im sure everything is cool. There are players coaches and there are coaches players. Brunell is a coaches player.

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

[quote=dirthogs311]Im sure everything is cool. There are players coaches and there are coaches players. Brunell is a coaches player.[/quote]

Yes I agree, but I have to ask: what are [I][U]players coaches[/U] [/I]?

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

Excuse me a Player's Coach rather. I.E. Gibbs, Vermeil: Player's Coach's Parcells, Coughlin: not Player's Coach's

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

[quote=dirthogs311]Excuse me a Player's Coach rather. I.E. Gibbs, Vermeil: Player's Coach's Parcells, Coughlin: not Player's Coach's[/quote]

ok, I think I got it. Thanks.

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

[quote=hail_2_da_skins]You raised a very interesting question, "How will Brunnel fit in the new offense?". Brunnel had a comeback season last year and fizzed at the end. Why are we so optomistic that he will excel in the new offense? I'm worried that he might be the weak link in the offense. They have upgraded the playbook and the receiving corps but the field general is still the same with dimenished skills. Cambell is ready yet. I fear that Collins might see significant playing time next year. Especially if Brunnel reverts back to form.[/quote]

I hope Brunell reverted back to form last year.

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

brunell and trent green are only alike in that they're old and experienced. green is not mobile like brunell, but he's much harder to take down.

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

I'm optimistic about Brunell in this offense for a few reasons. He still has gas in the tank if you ask me. Yes he slumped at the end of last year, but I believe that can be attributed to several factors that we've already addressed several times in other threads... his knee injury, a banged up Portis in the playoffs, no true #2 threat at WR, and a stale offensive attack, etc.

With the weapons we've added and Saunders calling the shots, I'm really interested to see Brunell lead the offense.

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

[quote=Mattyk72]I'm optimistic about Brunell in this offense for a few reasons. He still has gas in the tank if you ask me. Yes he slumped at the end of last year, but I believe that can be attributed to several factors that we've already addressed several times in other threads... his knee injury, a banged up Portis in the playoffs, no true #2 threat at WR, etc.

With the weapons we've added and Saunders calling the shots, I'm really interested to see Brunell lead the offense.[/quote]

Do you think that Collins might have been brought in as Saunders's guy like Brunell was Gibbs's guy ? Here's a quote from this article:

[URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/13/AR2006051300895.html"]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/13/AR2006051300895.html[/URL]

[I]Todd is as good a technician as there is in this passing game," Saunders said. "He just hasn't had a chance to play because [Chiefs Pro Bowl starter] Trent [Green] was always healthy."[/I]

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

And I'm not trying to start a qb controversy, but just noticing little things that people say (esp. what the coaches say).

Like gibbs saying during the last offseason that brunell still had something to contribute.

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

I am very confident in Brunell. He will never be asked to throw the ball 40 times a game, and if the Skins can score more points this year due to better playcalling, or players, it will take a lot of pressure off of him to do it all. If he goes down. I am confident in Collins or Campbell releaving him. I would want Brunell for the playoffs no matter what however.

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

[quote=warriorzpath]Do you think that Collins might have been brought in as Saunders's guy like Brunell was Gibbs's guy ? Here's a quote from this article:

[URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/13/AR2006051300895.html"]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/13/AR2006051300895.html[/URL]

[I]Todd is as good a technician as there is in this passing game," Saunders said. "He just hasn't had a chance to play because [Chiefs Pro Bowl starter] Trent [Green] was always healthy."[/I][/quote]

Very good point. I never thought of it that way. Kind of like Matt Schaub in Atlanta, but he gets to play. But as far as the running game though Matty, its gotta be exciting that we have 3 young RB's and KC only had two and one was over the hill. Its going to be interesting to see how well betts and cartwright perform when they come in to spell Portis

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

I am confident Gibbs and Saunders have the experience, evaluative and decision making skills to determine if Brunell is competant or not. I am also sure they would not consider risking this season if they were not totally comfortable with that conclusion. They would not hesitate to make changes if deemed necessary.

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

[quote=Hog1]I am confident Gibbs and Saunders have the experience, evaluative and decision making skills to determine if Brunell is competant or not. I am also sure they would not consider risking this season if they were not totally comfortable with that conclusion. They would not hesitate to make changes if deemed necessary.[/quote]

I'm pretty confident too, but I think his quote might have opened up the possible preference of Saunders to start Collins. He might have in the back of his mind that he wants to start Collins, like maybe gibbs starting brunell. At the moment this is just speculation and I'm only drawing comparisons based on what was said and done last year to what was said this year and what might happen this year.

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

Collins is a good insurance policy and can help ease the transition for both Campbell and Brunell.

I highly doubt he would beat out both Brunell and Campbell though and become the starter. But at the very least he's a veteran who knows the offense very well.

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

Just as you say MK, it's nice to have an insurance policy if Brunell can't make it. If Saunders felt he was the man, I'm ok with that. That's why he gets the $$$ I would be shocked if that were the case. I think it's REAL important to Brunell to make it happen, and a year or two down the road to exit a winner and not ridin' the pine

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

[quote=Mattyk72]Collins is a good insurance policy and can help ease the transition for both Campbell and Brunell.

I highly doubt he would beat out both Brunell and Campbell though and become the starter. But at the very least he's a veteran who knows the offense very well.[/quote]

That's true and that's the safe way to look at it, but sometimes coaches seem to be partial to quarterbacks, especially to ones that they have coached before. I mean who would have thought that gibbs would have done that with Brunell last year. Logically looking at it, it didn't make any sense - but gibbs just went with his gut. I was just thinking all along that gibbs might have had this in the back of his mind - maybe waiting for an opening. This is just going back to gibbs's comment that brunell can still contribute to the team.

I'm not saying that Saunders has already made up his mind because he may be waiting to see how the preseason plays out ala brunell last preseason.

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

What happens to the qb depth chart if Collins plays lights out in the preseason ? This may be a big possibility because of his familiarity with the offense and also going by the comments that Saunders has personally made about him.

Maybe it is dismissed as a result of 2nd String competition in the eyes of fans and media, but what would be important is what Saunders would be thinking if this happened.

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

ugh...

collins was brought in cause he knows the system. he's not that good, he's probably not even as good as schaub right now. He's no threat to brunell. Saunders brought him in to teach and so we have an experienced backup if brunell goes down and campbell isn't ready. that's it, end of story.

Saunders is NOT going to turn dockery into brian waters or ladell betts into larry johnson. It's just not happening. The play calling and formation shifts will create more mismatches and open space, but not to the point where betts could put up 1500 yards as a featured back... If it were really that easy, portis would have been gone months ago.

Let's please not overhype and oversell our offseason. It was good, we upgraded all of our weaknesses, we'll definately be better. were probably not going 16-0 though, and our #3 QB is NOT going to the pro bowl or outplaying both brunell and campbell... no matter what.

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

[quote=That Guy]ugh...



collins was brought in cause he knows the system. he's not that good, he's probably not even as good as schaub right now. He's no threat to brunell. Saunders brought him in to teach and so we have an experienced backup if brunell goes down and campbell isn't ready. that's it, end of story.



Saunders is NOT going to turn dockery into brian waters or ladell betts into larry johnson. It's just not happening. The play calling and formation shifts will create more mismatches and open space, but not to the point where betts could put up 1500 yards as a featured back... If it were really that easy, portis would have been gone months ago.



Let's please not overhype and oversell our offseason. It was good, we upgraded all of our weaknesses, we'll definately be better. were probably not going 16-0 though, and our #3 QB is NOT going to the pro bowl or outplaying both brunell and campbell... no matter what.[/quote]



First of all he is listed as the #2 qb. And second, I am not trying to oversell the redskins' offseason moves. Who said anything about him going to the probowl. And by Saunders's own words he believes, "Todd is as good a technician as there is in this passing game". Who do you think at this point, has the most important opinion on who should be the qb ?

And who said turning any of the redskins into any of the chiefs ? I don't see anywhere where someone brings up betts being the next larry johnson in this thread. I think you better read more than the last couple of posts before you post yourself.

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

[quote=That Guy]ugh...

collins was brought in cause he knows the system. he's not that good, he's probably not even as good as schaub right now. He's no threat to brunell. Saunders brought him in to teach and so we have an experienced backup if brunell goes down and campbell isn't ready. that's it, end of story.

Saunders is NOT going to turn dockery into brian waters or ladell betts into larry johnson. It's just not happening. The play calling and formation shifts will create more mismatches and open space, but not to the point where betts could put up 1500 yards as a featured back... If it were really that easy, portis would have been gone months ago.

Let's please not overhype and oversell our offseason. It was good, we upgraded all of our weaknesses, we'll definately be better. were probably not going 16-0 though, and our #3 QB is NOT going to the pro bowl or outplaying both brunell and campbell... no matter what.[/quote]

Good post, Guy!! All of these off-season threads could be summed up right in what you said! Collins is nothing more than a servicable QB that is intimately familiar with Saunder's offense. That's it!

I don't see any one player being transformed because of Saunder's arrival, Portis included.

What's funny is, once the offense has a few three and outs, people will starting bashing Saunders and his play calling.

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

[quote=warriorzpath]First of all he is listed as the #2 qb. And second, I am not trying to oversell the redskins' offseason moves. Who said anything about him going to the probowl. And by Saunders's own words he believes, "Todd is as good a technician as there is in this passing game". Who do you think at this point, has the most important opinion on who should be the qb ?

And who said turning any of the redskins into any of the chiefs ? I don't see anywhere where someone brings up betts being the next larry johnson in this thread. I think you better read more than the last couple of posts before you post yourself.[/quote]

I don't think Guy was directing his comments to you, per se. But the general tone of us collectively about the possibilty of Collins being more than what he really is. And furthermore how the Redskins are going to just anahilate everyone they line up against.

In general, I think our expectations are little bit high.

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

[quote=12thMan]Good post, Guy!! All of these off-season threads could be summed up right in what you said! Collins is nothing more than a servicable QB that is intimately familiar with Saunder's offense. That's it!

I don't see any one player being transformed because of Saunder's arrival, Portis included.

What's funny is, once the offense has a few three and outs, people will starting bashing Saunders and his play calling.[/quote]

Just because a qb is not proven, it doesn't mean that the qb is not any good. How would I or you know that Todd Collins can't play.

Rich Gannon, Kurt Warner, and even Trent Green come to mind.

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

[quote=12thMan]I don't think Guy was directing his comments to you, per se. But the general tone of us collectively about the possibilty of Collins being more than what he really is. And furthermore how the Redskins are going to just anahilate everyone they line up against.

In general, I think our expectations are little bit high.[/quote]

Maybe so, but he just missed the point of this entire thread by posting that here.

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

[quote=warriorzpath]Just because a qb is not proven, it doesn't mean that the qb is not any good. How would I or you know that Todd Collins can't play.

Rich Gannon, Kurt Warner, and even Trent Green come to mind.[/quote]

No one's saying he isn't any good, he's just not starting material.

I would say at this point in his career, at his age, if he had something under the hood we would know it by now.

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

[quote=warriorzpath]First of all he is listed as the #2 qb. And second, I am not trying to oversell the redskins' offseason moves. Who said anything about him going to the probowl. And by Saunders's own words he believes, "Todd is as good a technician as there is in this passing game". Who do you think at this point, has the most important opinion on who should be the qb ?

And who said turning any of the redskins into any of the chiefs ? I don't see anywhere where someone brings up betts being the next larry johnson in this thread. I think you better read more than the last couple of posts before you post yourself.[/quote]

before accussing me of not reading, maybe you should look at the posts here first. talking about what if collins plays lights out and such. and what do you expect saunders to say? "collins sucks, but he was cheap"... i mean come on, I bet you think taylor jacobs is freaking awesome cause of how hard gibbs pushed him too right? collins is OLD now, how many QBs breakout suddenly after doing absolutely nothing in their careers AFTER 35? honestly...

if i'm not allowed to have an opinion, then who made you god?

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

[quote=12thMan]No one's saying he isn't any good, he's just not starting material.

I would say at this point in his career, at his age, if he had something under the hood we would know it by now.[/quote]

Let me reiterate: Rich Gannon, Kurt Warner, and Trent Green.

But I really wouldn't know if he is any good, just going by the what Saunders is saying about him.

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

[quote=warriorzpath]Maybe so, but he just missed the point of this entire thread by posting that here.[/quote]

:P and you just missed the entire point of a DISCUSSION forum. Someone said something, I felt like bringing up a valid point. you got needlessly defensive and reactionary.

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

[quote=That Guy]before accussing me of not reading, maybe you should look at the posts here first. talking about what if collins plays lights out and such. and what do you expect saunders to say? "collins sucks, but he was cheap"... i mean come on, I bet you think taylor jacobs is freaking awesome cause of how hard gibbs pushed him too right?

seriously, if i'm not allowed to have an opinion, then who made you god?[/quote]

never said you are not allowed to have an opinion, just read a little bit more and get some more understanding before you post in a thread. To me, you are way off on what you think this post is about. I didn't think collins was going to play lights out - it's a "what if" question. And Saunders doesn't have to say anything about him - but what he said was more complimentary than saying he was a decent backup.

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

[quote=warriorzpath]Let me reiterate: Rich Gannon, Kurt Warner, and Trent Green.

But I really wouldn't know if he is any good, just going by the what Saunders is saying about him.[/quote]

all of which had 4-5 full years as a starter before 35.

Re: Brunell in Saunders's offense ?
 

[quote=warriorzpath]never said you are not allowed to have an opinion, just read a little bit more and get some more understanding before you post in a thread. To me, you are way off on what you think this post is about. I didn't think collins was going to play lights out - it's a "what if" question. And Saunders doesn't have to say anything about him - but what he said was more complimentary than saying he was a decent backup.[/quote]

get some more understanding? so i'm supposed to be pyschic and tell you how great you are now? no thanks. why don't you try articulating you thoughts better instead. You should be careful before intimating someone else is an idiot, cause that finger could very easily be pointed back at you.

and i was replying to you what-if, which for some reason, you think is a terrible offense. If you didn't want responses, then why did you post it?

saunders was asked about his QB situation, he had to say something in response. that was NOT an unprovoked statement, and he complimented campbell as well. you seem to be reading way too much into it though. gibbs and champ bailey and spurrier ALL said taylor jacobs was amazing, and we see how that turned out thusfar right? its an opinion, not gospel.