The Trung Canidate Situation...
 

Well, June 1 is quickly approaching. I'll bet there are a large number of Warpath members who'll be expecting Trung Canidate's name to be at the top of the list of cuts.

Just wondering, but does the relatively quiet chatter from Gibbs and his assistants on Canidate mean anything to you guys? Could it be that Canidate may actually have a place in this system? Has there been any official word on his performance thusfar in minicamps?

We know he's fast. He also carried the ball for over 100 yards against New Orleans last season, so he's not incapable of handling the ball at least in spot duties. Granted, I wouldn't put him on the goal line on fourth and inches or anything, but I could see him as the third down-receiving threat out of the backfield, maybe in the mold of Joe Washington or Kelvin Bryant.

But then we have to wonder how much of the ball Chad Morton will see (outside of special teams of course). I'm pretty sure Betts will have the #2/short yardage spot. Then there's Rock Cartwright and what could be an untapped resource of abilities with Sultan McCollough.

I'm sure there will be those who disagree, but I'm willing to give Canidate one more season to be the back we all expected him to be under the guidance of Gibbs' coaching in Gibbs' scheme. A lightening-fast pass catcher on screens and swing passes, and an explosive runner on draws and pitch-outs.

I'm curious to see a tally of opinions from my fellow Warpath members on Trung Canidate.

Poll question anyone?

Keep him, or cut him?

Candidate isn't a horrible player. He's far from a #1 back, but I think with his speed he has to have SOME kind of use! I'm not sure as to what his salary is, but that would be the biggest determining factor on who to cut and who to keep.

Canidate i think will be cut because we already have other backs who can run fast and play a third down role.

Well I think it's likely we will keep 5 running backs. Right now we have seven:

Portis
Morton
Canidate
Betts
Cartwright
McCullough
Simon

Portis and Morton are two of the five. Simon is likely to be cut. So there are three slots left for four players:

Canidate
Betts
McCullough
Cartwright

I think you want to keep a variety of backs - lead running back, third down backs, short yardage backs. You want players who are durable and can play special teams. Portis is the lead, Morton is a third down option. It would be nice to have a real power back - Cartwright might be the choice there. Portis needs a top backup, someone who really brings some spark to the table and keeps teams off balance. I believe McCullough could be that player. We will see how it plays out. Betts is a tough player and I think he will make the cut.


I think the final five will be:
Portis (starter)
Morton (part time third down back)
McCullough (top backup to Portis, third down duties)
Betts (all around back)
Cartwright (power back)

Canidate is a likely casualty not because of his ability or his salary, but that there is [u]no[/u] cap penalty for cutting him. His salary is $915,000 - not outrageous by any means for his position, but It's 915k that can be spent elsewhere. Betts, on the other hand, makes $380k next year in base salary which would be recouped upon his release, but there would be $795k of dead cap space eaten up with the prorating of his bonus. Betts would have to screw up royally to lose his backup slot.

Yeah, I agree with your assessments on the running backs. I think Candidate is gone because of the salary thing and that they have a good fast 3rd down back in Morton.


[QUOTE=Shane]Canidate i think will be cut because we already have other backs who can run fast and play a third down role.

Well I think it's likely we will keep 5 running backs. Right now we have seven:

Portis
Morton
Canidate
Betts
Cartwright
McCullough
Simon

Portis and Morton are two of the five. Simon is likely to be cut. So there are three slots left for four players:

Canidate
Betts
McCullough
Cartwright

I think you want to keep a variety of backs - lead running back, third down backs, short yardage backs. You want players who are durable and can play special teams. Portis is the lead, Morton is a third down option. It would be nice to have a real power back - Cartwright might be the choice there. Portis needs a top backup, someone who really brings some spark to the table and keeps teams off balance. I believe McCullough could be that player. We will see how it plays out. Betts is a tough player and I think he will make the cut.


I think the final five will be:
Portis (starter)
Morton (part time third down back)
McCullough (top backup to Portis, third down duties)
Betts (all around back)
Cartwright (power back)[/QUOTE]

we've got way to many half backs. Last year we could have halfbacks that would compete to be the 3rd down back. This year, I want Portis in everydown that he isnt tired. If its 3rd I expecially want Portis in the game. If we have room we should keep the players so we can atleast try to trade them. Morton should just be an expensive returner. Portis startign HB, Betts backup because hes cheaper then Trung. Cooley starting H-back. Rock backup H-back/fullback. And Sultan should be on the practice squad. Even that is a lot of running backs, and you guys didnt really mention Cooley that much. Mabye Cooley wont play much this year and someone else will fill in the hback role. We do have Rasby to be a blocking tightend.

I think trung will unfortunatly be the odd man out.I dont see anyone else getting cut.I will be especialy pissed off if they cut Rock.Mainly because I think he is a good short yardage back.My other reason is that he has one of the best football names I have ever heard.With a name like Rock Cartwright he just belongs on the football field.

Yeah, Canidate is gone. Not only the cap issue that all of you covered well, but he can not block. It looked like a fire drill in the backfield when he was in on passing plays last year. The only plays he could be on the field for under Gibbs are running plays, or quick passes to him out of the backfield. Not going to happen - too much of a giveaway.

Another big mark against Canidate is the fact that he didn't participate in any of the drills in the first two minicamps, due to the foot injury that he continues to rehabilitate. Meanwhile, Betts, Cartwright, Morton, McCullough and Simon all fully participated in both camps. Betts and Cartwright looked especially good in the second minicamp, for whatever that's worth.

Canidate is simply a more expensive version of Sultan McCullough, and there would be no cap hit for releasing him, so I'd have to imagine he's the odd man out. McCullough is also likely to see a lot of time as a gunner on special teams, due to his blazing speed, whereas I'd have a hard time seeing Canidate accepting a role as a special teams player. You have to be a willing and capable special teamer if you want to win a spot on this roster, and McCullough has indicated he plans to work very hard at becoming a special teams ace to ensure his future as a Redskin.

I've said it several times before, and I'll say it again: if McCullough gets an opportunity to carry the ball, he's going to shine. Obviously, he'll have to earn that opportunity. Success on special teams could buy him some time until that opportunity presents itself.

Due to the fact that Gibbs will want to have ample space on the roster for H-backs, TEs and WRs, I see the Skins keeping five RBs:

1. Portis
2. Betts
3. Morton
4. Cartwright
5. McCullough

Betts will fill the all-around backup and short-yardage role. Morton will obviously return kicks and provide spot duty on 3rd down. Cartwright and McCullough will primarily be special teamers-- and potentially very good ones-- which will give them added consideration for roster spots, though both could present a serious challenge to Betts for the backup role behind Portis. Canidate and Simon simply don't bring enough to the table that isn't already there.

I'd be really surprised if Canidate makes the team.

For someone who has such a fast 40 time he sure doesn't play fast.

why is everyone so high on Sultan McColough. Personally I didnt think he had that great of a preseason last year, it was against backups, just curious to why everyone thinks he is so good...

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]I'd be really surprised if Canidate makes the team.

For someone who has such a fast 40 time he sure doesn't play fast.[/QUOTE]




Me to it would be a surpised.

[QUOTE=Big C]why is everyone so high on Sultan McColough. Personally I didnt think he had that great of a preseason last year, it was against backups, just curious to why everyone thinks he is so good...[/QUOTE]

being fast doesn't always equate to great football skills (ie, james jett), but it doesn't hurt sultan runs a 10.1 100 meters. He played on a mediocre SC team back in the mid-90s, where he learned how to run between tackles (he already knew how to break it outside and take it to the house once in a while) and play through injury.

Again, that was college, so nobody really knows what he can do in the league. Like Crisp says, we'll see something when he's given the chance.

I also wonder why you all are so high on Sultan McCullough. He has showed me nothing outside of a few decent performances in the 4th quarter of some preseason games last year. I also wonder what Ladell Betts has done to make him a lock to make this team. I haven't seen anything from Betts that guarantees his spot either. I think the runners we keep should be:
Starter: Portis
Backup: Cartwright
Others: Morton
Candidate
Betts

I only think they should keep Betts because it's too early to give up on him. Candidate didn't play well last season, but he was still the top runner on the team. In addition to Candidate, Rock Cartwright really showed me something. I was surprised by his ability to run the football. He played pretty well considering the situation he was put in and I feel he could flourish as the backup to Clinton Portis.

i think you guys that dont like sultan are close to hitting moron on the IQ chart. the guy plays fast, runs especially fast, and speed n determination is what special teams are all about... he's definately got them both. and with that speed, the odds of playing hb is very good. if anyone didnt notice the game is all about speed now. look at de's and lb's from back in the day to now. huge decrease in weight.. hell, qbs back in the day to now... whats different? SPEED

Yes speed is what counts, but its speed after the catch, speed scrambling out of the pocket, speed after breaking through the line, speed chasing down a receiver. Not speed on a stopwatch. Its more about quickness than anything. Trungs problem was he couldnt stay on his feet, he couldnt take a hit and keep going. When no one touched him he churned out a bunch of big games, but that happens less often then you having to break a tackle.

As far as Sultan, after seein him in the preseason I was hoping all season he would get his chance to start, I really liked what I saw out of him and wished he had received a chance to play more

Hmmmm - seems pretty harsh (and downright silly) to call anyone who disagrees with your subjective assessment of talent a "moron".

Oh, and by the way, I am not one of the "morons"...

[QUOTE=Hogskin]Hmmmm - seems pretty harsh (and downright silly) to call anyone who disagrees with your subjective assessment of talent a "moron".

Oh, and by the way, I am not one of the "morons"...[/QUOTE]
Seriously, there's no need to insult someone for their opinion.

To the Sultan-Backers - yes, he is VERY fast, and in his limited (mostly training camp) experience, he showed a great deal. Remember two things - he hasn't played in the regular season effectively; and he left college with a (reportedly huge) attitude problem, which then coordinator Hue Jackson thought he could address because of their shared USC background. Hue ain't there no more.

To the Sultan-Bashers - Sultan is crazy, sexy fast. Not like Canidate, either. At 6'0", 200 lbs., he has shoulders before he puts the pads on. Sure he's a little crazy, but when there's a two-foot gap between Thomas and Jansen, you've got to be nuts to sprint through it. At his contract level (CHEAP!), he deserves to be in the hunt for a slot on this team. He was a tweener last year - too good for the practice squad, not good enough for the roster. He's earned a chance to win a spot.

Sultan wins out in my book over Trung simply because he has untapped potential. We've already seen Trung in action and outside of one big game in his rookie season against the Jets he's failed to impress. Also, Trung = no cap hit. I'd say the odds are stacked against him to be here in September.

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Sultan wins out in my book over Trung simply because he has untapped potential. We've already seen Trung in action and outside of one big game in his rookie season against the Jets he's failed to impress. Also, Trung = no cap hit. I'd say the odds are stacked against him to be here in September.[/QUOTE]

The cap hit is the big deal. As a four-year veteran, he'll also be expensive to re-sign, should we choose to do that. Since we have young talent available, we should hold onto it, rather than invest in a player who probably doesn't have a future with the team.

what dont you think Trung would have a cap hit Matty. He has a multiyear deal and got a signing bonus didnt he. My guess it would only be around a million dollar cap hit but still we dont have a lot of cap room for the next few years. Trung has the biggest cap hit of any of our running backs, other than Portis of course.

[QUOTE=SKINSnCANES]what dont you think Trung would have a cap hit Matty. He has a multiyear deal and got a signing bonus didnt he. My guess it would only be around a million dollar cap hit but still we dont have a lot of cap room for the next few years. Trung has the biggest cap hit of any of our running backs, other than Portis of course.[/QUOTE]
[url="http://home.earthlink.net/~wahoofamily/salary04.htm"]http://home.earthlink.net/~wahoofamily/salary04.htm[/url]

that weird, I dont recall him not getting a signing bonus but im not goign to argue it now. I guess Snyder figured he might be a casuality but was getting who Spurrier wanted. Im glad he didnt get one now.

Canidate is still playing on the contract he signed with the Rams, and the prorated remainder of the signing bonus from that contract was counted against the Rams' 2003 cap when they traded him to the Redskins. So if the Skins were to cut Canidate, there would be no cap hit-- and his salary ($915k for 2004) would come off the books as far as the cap goes. That's why Canidate is a primary candidate to be cut once he is deemed healthy enough for the Redskins to do so. Right now, he's apparently still recovering from a foot injury he suffered last season, and the CBA forbids teams from cutting a player when he is recovering from a football-related injury. Once he is cleared medically, he's a goner.

[QUOTE=SKINSnCANES]that weird, I dont recall him not getting a signing bonus but im not goign to argue it now. I guess Snyder figured he might be a casuality but was getting who Spurrier wanted. Im glad he didnt get one now.[/QUOTE]

Trung was aquired in a trade, so his SB still counted against the Rams' salary cap. (I don't think he restructured after the trade, but I could be wrong...)

I take back my last post. That link you gave me is bogus information and I will agrue it. The thing about Trung might be right but in general that site is wrong. Take Arrington for instance, they have his rookie signing bonus on there or 10 million and not his new contract. The Portis numbers dont add up right and if I were you I wouldnt use that site anymore.

[url]http://www.thehogs.net/html/Team/salary_table.php[/url]

that seems to be a more accurate table then the other one.

Arringstons deal is worth 35 million on that site, hes got a 68 million dollar deal. I think 35 millino could have been his previous contract. Perhaps the rest of that site is right and I just happened to check the two that wrong, but it was enough to make me want to track down a different site.

[QUOTE=SKINSnCANES]I take back my last post. That link you gave me is bogus information and I will agrue it. The thing about Trung might be right but in general that site is wrong. Take Arrington for instance, they have his rookie signing bonus on there or 10 million and not his new contract. The Portis numbers dont add up right and if I were you I wouldnt use that site anymore.

[url]http://www.thehogs.net/html/Team/salary_table.php[/url]

that seems to be a more accurate table then the other one.[/QUOTE]

Regardless of what the tables say about LaVar don't they both say the same thing about Trung? That there's no cap hit for him?

yeah I thought we were talking about Trung having no cap hit? LOL

Looks like buddha's site might not be completely up to date but it generally is and that site has always been the first source I check for salary info.

Thanks for the other link though.

I wish we could find out own capologist to take care of a salaries page here on our site. Any takers?

An injury-prone speed runner who can't block. Sound like a Gibbs back? Bye, Trung.

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]I wish we could find out own capologist to take care of a salaries page here on our site. Any takers?[/QUOTE]

I hereby nominate Crazy Canuck

The way I see it, the big thing about Canidate is that we now have two other RB's that are about the same size/speed in Portis and McCullough. One is a proven "franchise" back that will start, and the other has shown loads of potential and is a lot cheaper. Not to mention Morton as another smaller, faster guy for 3rd downs. So Trung is basically the odd man out. Bye bye TC!

The one thing I will say about Trung is this, up until now he was not a hard runner, not because he couldn't, be but because he was scared, he used to tap dance to the hole, but late in the season I saw him start to attack the hole and run with authority, could it be he finally figured out how to run? Although I have been a detratctor of Trung's because of his tenativeness since we picked him up, I have to say if he finally figured out how to be a real RB, he could have a lot of value to a team if we can show case him, I wouldn't count him out just yet, although I think his future either way with us will be short lived, but for cap purposes, I don't believe he really hurt's us, his contract is very reasonable.

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]I wish we could find out own capologist to take care of a salaries page here on our site. Any takers?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=smootsmack]I hereby nominate Crazy Canuck[/QUOTE]

Count me in.

While my numbers are not 100% correct (no site I've found out there is), I can give you about 98% accuracy.

I continuously update my own sheet anyways so I'd be happy to share it here.

Let me know the best way to do this.

[QUOTE=joecrisp]Canidate is still playing on the contract he signed with the Rams, and the prorated remainder of the signing bonus from that contract was counted against the Rams' 2003 cap when they traded him to the Redskins. So if the Skins were to cut Canidate, there would be no cap hit-- and his salary ($915k for 2004) would come off the books as far as the cap goes. That's why Canidate is a primary candidate to be cut once he is deemed healthy enough for the Redskins to do so. Right now, he's apparently still recovering from a foot injury he suffered last season, and the CBA forbids teams from cutting a player when he is recovering from a football-related injury. Once he is cleared medically, he's a goner.[/QUOTE]

As for the Trung situation, I think JoeCrisp is right on (as usual).

[QUOTE=CrazyCanuck]As for the Trung situation, I think JoeCrisp is right on (as usual).[/QUOTE]

I believe we reworked his contract right after we traded for him, I still don't think it will be much of a cap hit.

[QUOTE=offiss]I believe we reworked his contract right after we traded for him, I still don't think it will be much of a cap hit.[/QUOTE]
Actually, though it was discussed, there was no reworking. He remains on his rookie deal. I think he'd hoped to wow the team with his stats and sign a more lucrative deal - injuries have derailed that.