This is at Every Game ,with every Team !
 

It's everywhere,it's why I don't drink at games .The drunks wreck it for everyone.


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[/SIZE][B]Beer vendor verdict overturned [/B]

Thursday, August 3, 2006

By KIBRET MARKOS
STAFF WRITER

A state appeals court on Thursday tossed out a record $109 million award to a quadriplegic Cliffside Park girl and her mother who were severely injured in a crash caused by a drunken New York Giants fan more than six years ago.

The ruling means a new trial in the case of 9-year-old Antonia Verni, who was paralyzed from the neck down when drunken driver Daniel Lanzaro slammed his truck into her family’s car in Hasbrouck Heights.

Verni’s family sued Aramark Corp., which runs the beer concessions at Giants Stadium in East Rutherford, where Lanzaro had downed more beers than he could remember.

After a month-long trial last year, a jury in Superior Court in Hackensack found that Aramark promoted a “culture of intoxication” at the stadium and carelessly sold beer to a visibly drunk Lanzaro. The jurors then granted the Verni’s the largest dram-shop liability award in the nation’s history.

A three-judge appellate panel, however, reversed the verdict Thursday, ruling that the trial was marred by numerous errors and lacked “true adversity that is an underpinning of our judicial system.”

The panel agreed with Aramark's attorneys that the evidence presented to prove a “culture of intoxication” at Giants Stadium – including wrongful hiring, insufficient training and supervision of alcohol-vending staff – should not have been admitted at trial.

The central issue during the trial was whether alcohol was negligently sold to a visibly drunk Lanzaro. The judges wrote that the evidence relating to the “culture of intoxication” was marginally relevant at best, while causing undue prejudice against Aramark.

Company attorneys on Thursday referred all questions to a spokeswoman, who issued a brief statement.

“While we are saddened by the injuries suffered by Antonia Verni, we are gratified by today’s court decision,” said Kristine Grow, the spokeswoman.

The Vernis’ attorney, David Mazie, stressed that Thursday’s ruling was not premised on the size of the award, but rather on “hyper-technical legal issues” surrounding the trial. He also vowed to take the case to the state Supreme Court.

“This is not the end of anything,” he said. “We will continue to fight on behalf of Antonia and her mother.”

Lanzaro, a 35-year-old Cresskill carpenter and a father of two, testified during the trial that he began drinking at a tailgate party at a Giants game on Oct. 24, 1999. He said he later went to two strip clubs with his friend, Michael Holder, and was “beyond drunk” when he smashed his pickup truck head-on into the Vernis’ car.

Antonia, 2 years old at the time, stopped breathing twice as paramedics tried to resuscitate her. The girl’s mother, Fazila Baksh Verni, was hospitalized for two months with multiple fractures and became partially blind.

Antonia’s father, Ronald, escaped with minor injuries, as did Lanzaro, whose blood-alcohol level at the time of the accident was more than twice the then-legal limit. He pleaded guilty to vehicular assault and is now serving a five-year prison term.

The Vernis originally sued several persons and entities, including Holder, Giants Stadium, the National Football League, the New York Giants and the two go-go bars where Lanzaro went after leaving the stadium.

The Vernis later settled the claim against those defendants for a total of about $1 million. Aramark went to trial and was found liable for 50 percent of the damages. Lanzaro was liable for the other half.

In Thursday’s decision, however, the appeals panel agreed with Aramark attorneys that the jury should have considered the percentage of liability of the other defendants – which could have lowered Aramark’s share of liability.

The trial in Hackensack involved extensive evidence on how alcohol was served at the stadium. Mazie argued that Aramark violated its own policy of not selling more than two beers at a time to patrons, and presented witnesses who testified that they never saw anyone – drunk or not – being refused drinks at the stadium.

Aramark attorneys argued that its managers, vendors and alcohol-compliance officers were well-trained in identifying drunken patrons but were fooled by Lanzaro, a seasoned drinker who showed no signs of intoxication.

Re: This is at Every Game ,with every Team !
 

Pathetic. I've got nothing against getting ripped at a sporting event (as I have many an occasion) but have someone take care of you. Not for you, but for the innocent people that you may hurt.

Re: This is at Every Game ,with every Team !
 

it was probably shockey and plaxico burress that were drunk in the car that did that!

Re: This is at Every Game ,with every Team !
 

[quote=3rd ID SOLDIER]it was probably shockey and plaxico burress that were drunk in the car that did that![/quote]

I don't think the girl's family would find the joke amusing but I do disagree with our culture's tendency to sue anybody and everybody and to dish out idiotic amounts for damages. 109 million? That is almost as stupid as the 300 million initially given to the smoker.

What is next Dallas suing the Redskins for that violation in FedEx?

Re: This is at Every Game ,with every Team !
 

I followed the trial and was amazed at the inital ruling. Anyone who has been to a game knows it is very difficult to afford the amount of beers that it would take to get you 2x the legal limit. The guy also went other places after the game so the beer he might have had was well added to by the time the accident happened. Plus you know and I know he was probably tailgating for hours before so the few beers he probably had in the stadium really did little to get him any drunker. Plus, I have seen them turn people away at Giants stadium, happens all the time...as it should. It is unfortunate the little girl was hurt so badly, but ultimate responsibility rests with the guy and his friends who did not keep him from getting behind the wheel.

Re: This is at Every Game ,with every Team !
 

you guys are pathetic. if a vendor or beer stand sold him beer , like i used to see all the time at the vet, while visibly drunk, why shouldnt they be responsible? here a little girls life, along with her families, is basically ruined. as far as im concerned, all parties involved should pay. is 109 million enough if it would be your little girl?

Re: This is at Every Game ,with every Team !
 

what happened to the drunk driver? I hope he spends decades in prison.

Re: This is at Every Game ,with every Team !
 

[QUOTE=dmek25]you guys are pathetic. if a vendor or beer stand sold him beer , like i used to see all the time at the vet, while visibly drunk, why shouldnt they be responsible? here a little girls life, along with her families, is basically ruined. as far as im concerned, all parties involved should pay. is 109 million enough if it would be your little girl?[/QUOTE]

If there was a law against selling booze to drunks, Half of the people on the warpath would still be virgins... :(

I would like to see more control on the amount of alcohol sold, but in reality there is no way to control when and where people drink.

Re: This is at Every Game ,with every Team !
 

[quote=dmek25]you guys are pathetic. if a vendor or beer stand sold him beer , like i used to see all the time at the vet, while visibly drunk, why shouldnt they be responsible? here a little girls life, along with her families, is basically ruined. as far as im concerned, all parties involved should pay. is 109 million enough if it would be your little girl?[/quote]

No way, I believe that if someone is obviously drunk then they shouldnt get served, but that is it. It is not the companies fault, personal responsibility here, seriously. If you get drunk, its YOUR fault, not the beer seller. I am sick of people blaming their probs on other ppl.

Re: This is at Every Game ,with every Team !
 

[quote=dmek25]you guys are pathetic. if a vendor or beer stand sold him beer , like i used to see all the time at the vet, while visibly drunk, why shouldnt they be responsible? here a little girls life, along with her families, is basically ruined. as far as im concerned, all parties involved should pay. is 109 million enough if it would be your little girl?[/quote]

I can't effing stand this argument. Since when can a dollar value be put on someone's life? Why do we insist on assigning a dollar value to it? First off, punitive damages like that are ineffective. The only people that care if Aramark loses 109 million are the shareholders, and the CFO and CEO of Aramark. And they won't make any sweeping changes as a result of the punitive damage ruling, they already have mechanisms in place not to sell to visibly drunk people. It's stupid to ask Aramark to pay $109 million. The primary responsibility rests with the guy who got behind the wheel.

The only reason Aramark was named in the case was because this family was out for jackpot justice, and when they realized that they could only milk a couple thousand out of the drunk driver, they went after whoever had money. And that was Aramark.

What, paying $109 million is supposed to make anybody any less hurt or any less dead? It's retarded. It accomplishes nothing, other than get the family rich off their daughter's misfortune.

Re: This is at Every Game ,with every Team !
 

The drunk driver should spend years and years in prison. But Aramark has NO RESPONSIBILITY AT ALL in my opinion.

Re: This is at Every Game ,with every Team !
 

[quote=Schneed10]I can't effing stand this argument. Since when can a dollar value be put on someone's life? Why do we insist on assigning a dollar value to it? First off, punitive damages like that are ineffective. The only people that care if Aramark loses 109 million are the shareholders, and the CFO and CEO of Aramark. And they won't make any sweeping changes as a result of the punitive damage ruling, they already have mechanisms in place not to sell to visibly drunk people. It's stupid to ask Aramark to pay $109 million. The primary responsibility rests with the guy who got behind the wheel.

The only reason Aramark was named in the case was because this family was out for jackpot justice, and when they realized that they could only milk a couple thousand out of the drunk driver, they went after whoever had money. And that was Aramark.

What, paying $109 million is supposed to make anybody any less hurt or any less dead? It's retarded. It accomplishes nothing, other than get the family rich off their daughter's misfortune.[/quote]

Exactly, I agree with you 100%. The company has no involvement, and the only thing to get out of the company is money. Like I said before, people have to make their own choices, and face the results of that choice, and not blame it on other people.

Re: This is at Every Game ,with every Team !
 

The person is responsible to know when to stop and whether or not to drive. Whats next, sue the police deptarment for not catching the guy before he killed someone? Could say they weren't trained enough to spot him, weren't enough cops on the road, and didn't care enough.

Re: This is at Every Game ,with every Team !
 

It's a very tragic story. But where does it end really? I mean I've heard of similar cases where the car company is sued, the construction company that built the road is sued, the city is sued, and so on.

Re: This is at Every Game ,with every Team !
 

When you go to a game you usually have a ticket stub right? So the venders could put in a system that rations a certain amount of beers to each ticket, each time you buy a beer your ticket will be scanned and it will mark how many beers you have bought on that ticket. I know that there are ways around that but its an idea to help curb excess drinking, realistically it would be impossible to stop people from drinking and driving. It is so sad that the little girl now has to live a life in a wheel chair, very very sad.

Re: This is at Every Game ,with every Team !
 

[quote=Monk-Fan]When you go to a game you usually have a ticket stub right? So the venders could put in a system that rations a certain amount of beers to each ticket, each time you buy a beer your ticket will be scanned and it will mark how many beers you have bought on that ticket. I know that there are ways around that but its an idea to help curb excess drinking, realistically it would be impossible to stop people from drinking and driving. It is so sad that the little girl now has to live a life in a wheel chair, very very sad.[/quote]

wouldn't work.

first: WAY too expensive, and it also slows down sales immensely.
second: he could borrow a stub from his wife/friend/kid/etc or say he lost it.
third: if he really wanted to, he could either sneak beer in or get drunk elsewhere. so it really wouldn't matter who sold him how much beer.

in this case, he was drinking at the tailgate, drinking at the game, and drinking at the strip joints afterwards.

Re: This is at Every Game ,with every Team !
 

1st- It wouldnt slow sales immensly, maybe slower but it doesnt take that long to scan a ticket so i dont buy immensley. Dont make the equipment sound like it would cost millions to install and use cause it wouldnt. The Military uses a scanning system overseas all the time and it is easy to use and not really a hassle at all

2nd- Yes he could borrow a ticket from someone else, but like i said it is just an idea.

Relax its just an idea to curb incidents of drunk drivers ruining other peoples lives. I realize that an individual can get drunk somewhere else but like i said it is just an idea

Re: This is at Every Game ,with every Team !
 

Sorry, I disagree with the whole concept of "It's ALL the driver's fault". I am not saying it automatically is Aramark's fault BUT they MAY bear some fault in this matter and, if so, should be liable too.

If I, knowing you are drunk and, by definition, know you that your decision making capability is impaired, then I am contributing to your impairment and, in fact, profiting from it when I sell you more alchohol. In addition, regardless of whether or not I know that you will drive later, the inherent dangers in furthering public drunkeness should, at the very least, put me on notice that your impaired condition could be the direct cause of significant harm to others.

The public policy behind dram shop laws is to punish sellers of alchohol in order to protect the general welfare. They were not created in a vacume but were a reaction to the dangers of public drunkeness - and are a tool used by the public to place some responsibility on sellers of alchohol so that they take responsibilty for the inherent dangers of their product.

With that said, the company should only be held liable, in my opinion, if it's hiring procedures and training of the vendor were insufficient or if it encouraged vendors to increase profits without due care towards public safety ("don't worry about selling to drunks, the stadium police will get them if they become a problem"). If the company appropriately trained its people not to sell to drunks, then it should be off the hook. If it gave no instruction, well then it probably (b/c of the liability placed by dram shop laws) is on the hook.

As for the total amount awarded - an otherwise healthy 2yr old now has to spend her life as a quadripalegic. Maintenance Health care alone will be astronomical.

Those who contributed to, and profited from, the fan's drunken behavior should join in the payment of the damages caused by that behavior. Particularly when the public has recognized a specific danger and enacted laws that distribute liability.

Re: This is at Every Game ,with every Team !
 

If all cars had breathalyzers (sp?) then nobody could drive drunk. The way I see it, if people REALLY cared about drunk driving then every car would have one.

I think it would suck to have a breathalyzer on every car, but it would be justified and would certainly reduce the amount of drunk driving accidents.

Re: This is at Every Game ,with every Team !
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS]It's a very tragic story. But where does it end really? I mean I've heard of similar cases where the car company is sued, the construction company that built the road is sued, the city is sued, and so on.[/QUOTE]

While true that we are a very litigious society, the mere fact that lawsuits are filed doesn't mean they are successful.

As to where it stops - USUALLLY, it stops where it should. In some cases, it doesn't and we get the "hot coffee" cases. But, in my experience, those are the exception and not the rule (even in the hot coffee case there was some rationality - [url]http://www.citizen.org/congress/civjus/tort/myths/articles.cfm?ID=785)[/url].

Re: This is at Every Game ,with every Team !
 

I don't think anyone should be outraged at the court's decision. It sounds like their reasons for overturning the initial ruling are sound. The family will now get a new trial in which that evidence in question will not be admitted. If their case is legitimate, that will bear out in court and they'll receive appropriate compensation.

What's the problem here?

Re: This is at Every Game ,with every Team !
 

As a functioning adult in this society, you have to know your limitations. This drunk in this trial obviously doesn't know his...

However if Aramark isn't at fault here, why do they continue to limit the amount of beer you can buy at a game? To curb their liability? Now granted, they cannot foot all the responsibility, but they can't get off scott free either. A vendor can visibly see how impaired the buyer is, and recommend he not be able to purchase. He can obviously get it from someone else, but at what point do you become your brother's keeper and make sure he doesn't drink anymore?

Several gray areas here. I'm not surprised at the outcome, as it seems to be purely based on judicial review. and the family still has avenues to go down if they choose.

Re: This is at Every Game ,with every Team !
 

If Brud and/or Riggo44 and I were to match drink for drink I'd be falling down drunk after about 15 minutes. I'd appear drunk to a beer vendor, they'd be fine.

They both appeared sober to me at the games I met them at, I now know they weren't.

Are you suggesting that beer vendors now become beer police? Makes no sense.

Personal responsibility. End of.

Re: This is at Every Game ,with every Team !
 

How do we even know that he was visibly drunk when he purchased the beer. Its not like the vendor can spend all this time investigating if the person they are selling a beer to is drunk or not.Its not like in most bars where you have the same waiter or bartender who knows how much you have been served. Its a shame what happend to this family but the driver is to be blamed for his actions and he went to other bars after the game. They are going after the deep pockets which you can't blame them but I just do not see how the vendor can be held liab. If they are why stop there why not the beer co who advertise how great it is to have some beers with your friends and how they make it look kool to drink. Then how about the advertising co. who make these advertisements for the beer co.. We could go on and on with this but it comes down to the guy who got in his car and turned the key. If he left the bar and had the accident that means that he made it to the bar from the stadium so the bar was the place he left and had the accident. Why not sue the go go dancers which enticed him to stay and drink with there sexy little bodies.

Re: This is at Every Game ,with every Team !
 

I'm not saying that they become the beer police, but there comes a point when someone is visably drunk enough to know not to serve them anymore beer. slurring and unsteadiness, you don't need a PhD to figure out what's wrong with them.

now, this guy in the case...he talks of drinking several during a tailgate, and drinking more inside. he may have been able to walk right up to the vendor and buy, all the while being steady. all i ask is at what point do you stop serving? when they pass out reaching for their wallet after ordering another 4 beers? it's a judgment call...

and as far as the family goes, i believe their original suit did call to the strip clubs the guy went to after the fact...

Re: This is at Every Game ,with every Team !
 

[quote=dmek25]you guys are pathetic. if a vendor or beer stand sold him beer , like i used to see all the time at the vet, while visibly drunk, why shouldnt they be responsible? here a little girls life, along with her families, is basically ruined. as far as im concerned, all parties involved should pay. is 109 million enough if it would be your little girl?[/quote]

No, if it were my little girl, $109 million would not be enough. But I would be biased and that's why injured parties do not sit on juries of their own lawsuits. Sounds like the court is saying that some evidence, that Aramark [B]should[/B] have been able to present, was supressed. Had it been presented, maybe the jury would not have awarded $109 million. So the trial is a "do over."

Aramark is entitled to fairness, too. I can't tell from this snippet how much beer Aramark sold the guy; how drunk he may have looked; or when they last sold the beer to him; or the time gap between his last beer at the game and his next hit at the girly club; or how much he had at the girly club; or whether they should have cut him off; or a lot of other details why Aramark was liable for $109 million when the Giants, Meadowlands, NFL and especially the strip clubs settled for $1 million. Something funny there.

Giantone's original point was that rowdy behavior has become a bigger part of football games than it used to be. That's true. And the people most responsible are the ones who get tanked. Adults are supposed to be responsible for their own actions.

Re: This is at Every Game ,with every Team !
 

[quote=Monk-Fan]1st- It wouldnt slow sales immensly, maybe slower but it doesnt take that long to scan a ticket so i dont buy immensley. Dont make the equipment sound like it would cost millions to install and use cause it wouldnt. The Military uses a scanning system overseas all the time and it is easy to use and not really a hassle at all

2nd- Yes he could borrow a ticket from someone else, but like i said it is just an idea.

Relax its just an idea to curb incidents of drunk drivers ruining other peoples lives. I realize that an individual can get drunk somewhere else but like i said it is just an idea[/quote]

if a transaction takes 35 seconds instead of 30 (fumbling for the ticket, pulling it off of your pocket etc) you've lost 10-15% of TOTAL sales. that is immense. If you DON'T think a scanning system would cost millions, you're fooling yourself. Every vendor would need a scanner, you'd need a server w/ database, guys to run it, and batteries for all the scanners and wifi equipment, not to mention training and installation. that's a huge expense for something so easily thwarted.

Re: This is at Every Game ,with every Team !
 

I think one (not souly) of the things we're missing here is the drinking before and after the game .Face it even if a stadium didn't sell beer ,people would still drink in the parking lot before and after the game.

Re: This is at Every Game ,with every Team !
 

[QUOTE=RedskinRat]If Brud and/or Riggo44 and I were to match drink for drink I'd be falling down drunk after about 15 minutes. I'd appear drunk to a beer vendor, they'd be fine.

They both appeared sober to me at the games I met them at, I now know they weren't.

Are you suggesting that beer vendors now become beer police? Makes no sense.

Personal responsibility. End of.[/QUOTE]

EXACTLY. At my absolute drunkest points, I honestly look completley chill and may appear a little buzzed, but 9/10 times that I get hammered, you really can't tell. You can't blame the beer vendors for this, alot of people could blow a .20 and look like they've had 2 beers. To place blame on the beer vendor I think is ludacris.

Re: This is at Every Game ,with every Team !
 

unless you mandate breathalizer tests before sales, its hard to demand that the vendors play beer police without any training or equipment.

Re: This is at Every Game ,with every Team !
 

To me , the NFL needs to stop beer sales altogether but I also know that will never happen too much $$$$$$$$$$.Drunks at a game never help and really when you get to it why is it you need to drink at a game anyway .Hey I like beer and I'm not ant-drinking but I like to enjoy the game I've paid 2000$ dollars to attend :) and if there are kids around ,It's just not cool.

Re: This is at Every Game ,with every Team !
 

After being hit in the head at FedEx with a beer mug thrown by a Redskins Fan who was aiming at the Eagles fan in the row in front of me, I have to say Giantone make a good point. :lol: Of course, if it had hit my 9 yr old son, I would have wanted to fight the thrower, regardless of the fact that it was a Redskins fan and a woman. (The county police got her out of there quick)

Used to be that games were a time to celebrate and cheer the team and find a sense of community. It's still all that for most people, but now a sizeable number of people go to the games to drink.

Re: This is at Every Game ,with every Team !
 

2 words: designated driver.

Also, if the cops wanted to, they could set up lots of roadblocks outside of NFL games, like it was New Year's Eve. Arrest a few drunks, and my guess is that the numbers will drop.

Re: This is at Every Game ,with every Team !
 

while i personally don't see a reason to sell at games, lots of people think its an integral part of the experience.

i doubt the vendors or teams want to stop when they're making $7+ profit per beer.

Re: This is at Every Game ,with every Team !
 

i can booze right along side the best of them, but i agree with giantone here. we all pay sooo much money to enjoy the redskins or any pro sports team for that matter. i do not drink at sporting events. maybe 8 straight years of all the bullcrap i used to hear at the vet when the skins visited turned me off. but between the beer muscles, all the vulgarities and not to mention all the bathroom breaks you have to take, no thanks

Re: This is at Every Game ,with every Team !
 

[quote=dmek25]you guys are pathetic. if a vendor or beer stand sold him beer , like i used to see all the time at the vet, while visibly drunk, why shouldnt they be responsible? here a little girls life, along with her families, is basically ruined. as far as im concerned, all parties involved should pay. is 109 million enough if it would be your little girl?[/quote]

Typical liberal dribble. Her life is ruined. What's the point in trying to capitalize on it? It is the fault of the guy not the vendors. Why should some greasy lawyer get 30 - 40 million because a poor little girl was paralyzed?

Re: This is at Every Game ,with every Team !
 

[QUOTE=Grim21Reaper]Typical liberal dribble. Her life is ruined. What's the point in trying to capitalize on it? It is the fault of the guy not the vendors. Why should some greasy lawyer get 30 - 40 million because a poor little girl was paralyzed?[/QUOTE]

Holding corporations liable for their negligent actions is not liberal drivel. It is, in fact, merely making sure that corporations are also held "personally" responsible for their actions.

As for the greasy lawyer making 30-40 million - I resemble that remark (Well, except for the 30-40 million).

Re: This is at Every Game ,with every Team !
 

if the vendors sold beer to someone that is visibly intoxicated then yes, they should also be held accountable.they main culprit in this is obviously the man driving the car, but he is not alone. and maybe the 109 million can soften the blow alittle bit for a young child(and family) who has had their lives changed forever. and im not sure what political party affliation has to do with any of this