Tiger Woods vs. Michael Jordan
 

[FONT=Verdana][SIZE=2][COLOR=black][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]I'm going to go ahead and say it Tiger Woods is the greatest [B][B]athlete[/B][/B] ever! Yep, I said it. For now let's leave out Gretzky, Ali, Ruth and a few of the other notables. [/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
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[FONT=Verdana][SIZE=2][COLOR=black][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Let's narrow this discussion down to Tiger v. MJ, arguably the two greatest in our era for their respective sports. Up until Sunday I would have said MJ hands down. But as I was sitting on the bar stool something just clicked, almost like an epiphany of sorts, as I watched Tiger almost effortlessly stroke through the back nine. I really think he's pulled a number on the sports world that people will be talking about for decades. [/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
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[FONT=Verdana][SIZE=2][COLOR=black][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]I think MJ single handedly revitalized the NBA in so many ways. I also think that many of today's athletes in [I]all sports[/I] can thank MJ for ushering in the era of big endorsement dollars. [/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Verdana][SIZE=2][COLOR=black][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]No athlete that I can think of has had quite the impact that Michael Jordan had on his sport, until Tiger came along. Of course my claims sound pre-mature, especially since Tiger hasn’t statically passed the Golden Bear who is still regarded by many the greatest golfer of all time. Some don’t even consider Tiger an athlete at all because all he does is swing a golf club and walks from one hole to the next. But to me anytime the body, the mind, and emotions are engaged together at once in the arena of competition I consider that individual an athlete. Plain and simple. Wilbon touched on something a couple of weeks ago that made sense, Tiger has opened up and generated interest in the sport of golf that didn’t previously exist. [/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
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[FONT=Verdana][SIZE=2][COLOR=black][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]I don’t know how many of the greats in other sports that have had quite the cultural effect while dominating the sport at the same. [/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
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Re: Tiger Woods vs. Michael Jordan
 

I used to think golf did not much athleticism but since I picked it up a couple of years ago I've loosened my stance on it a bit. That being said, Jordan appears to be more athletic than Tiger. If one on one competition involving running, jumping and feats of strength is used as a measuring tool, I think Jordan would be the better athlete.

Re: Tiger Woods vs. Michael Jordan
 

I've always believed that Wayne Gretzky had a bigger impact of changing the game of hockey than MJ did on basketball. Before MJ, guys like David Thompson, Dr. J, Backrow, etc. were all playing above the rim. But before Gretzky I don't think anyone really thought to use the back of the opponent's net as an offensive weapon.

I think Tiger and Jordan are both amazing athletes and I'm happy to have seen Jordan play and to currently see Tiger. But I find it a bit hard to compare someone who plays in an individual sport with someone who plays in a team sport.

I think right now Tiger is the best active athlete...unless you include Roger Federer in the discussion. Then it gets a bit more interesting

Re: Tiger Woods vs. Michael Jordan
 

Let me say this about golf. Sure, it takes some athleticism, but wouldn't that argument lend itself to saying that the best bowlers ever would be among the greatest sports figures? Dart players?

Re: Tiger Woods vs. Michael Jordan
 

[quote=TAFKAS;206656]I've always believed that Wayne Gretzky had a bigger impact of changing the game of hockey than MJ did on basketball. Before MJ, guys like David Thompson, Dr. J, Backrow, etc. were all playing above the rim. But before Gretzky I don't think anyone really thought to use the back of the opponent's net as an offensive weapon.

I think Tiger and Jordan are both amazing athletes and I'm happy to have seen Jordan play and to currently see Tiger. But I find it a bit hard to compare someone who plays in an individual sport with someone who plays in a team sport.

I think right now Tiger is the best active athlete...unless you include Roger Federer in the discussion. Then it gets a bit more interesting[/quote]

True, it is hard to compare individual sport vs team sport. I think I'm looking at the complete body of work. I agree if Federer enters, it's more interesting.

Re: Tiger Woods vs. Michael Jordan
 

I'm not saying it's right or wrong to say that someone who plays golf is the best athlete out there currently, but if you're talking about things considered sport, then you have to give a fair chance to people who play things that require athleticism, but not nearly as much as hockey, baseketball, baseball, soccer, and football.

Re: Tiger Woods vs. Michael Jordan
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;206657]Let me say this about golf. Sure, it takes some athleticism, but wouldn't that argument lend itself to saying that the best bowlers ever would be among the greatest sports figures? Dart players?[/quote]

I guess by my definition of athlete they certainly can be included, I just don't know of any.

Re: Tiger Woods vs. Michael Jordan
 

I define athlete a bit differently here. I mean I guess it'd be better defined as something like best sports performer or something like that. I mean as an athlete I suppose Randle El is more of an athlete than Tom Brady, but Brady is the guy you'd rather have.

Re: Tiger Woods vs. Michael Jordan
 

Right. I just think that with such a broad definition of athlete, it makes the picture a bit muddy. You could easily include competitive eaters. Why not Kobiashi?

Re: Tiger Woods vs. Michael Jordan
 

[quote=TAFKAS;206661]I define athlete a bit differently here. I mean I guess it'd be better defined as something like best sports performer or something like that. I mean as an athlete I suppose Randle El is more of an athlete than Tom Brady, but Brady is the guy you'd rather have.[/quote]This is why we shouldn't compare athletes from different sports. We should leave it at: (blank) is the best football player ever, or (blank) is the best golpher ever. There is no way to compare accomplishments from one sport to that of another. Some sports are more physical while some are more finess.

you could probably make cases for individual sports but when it comes to team sports, you really cant compare players.

Re: Tiger Woods vs. Michael Jordan
 

[quote=TAFKAS;206661]I define athlete a bit differently here. I mean I guess it'd be better defined as something like best sports performer or something like that. I mean as an athlete I suppose Randle El is more of an athlete than Tom Brady, but Brady is the guy you'd rather have.[/quote]

So, should we consider an athlete someone who runs and jumps only?

Re: Tiger Woods vs. Michael Jordan
 

No, I really think that an athlete is by definition a very fluid, subjective concept. It's almost like asking, "What is art?"

You can easily be one of the "World's Strongest Men" and be considered an athlete, while having no other talent than being able to pick up heavy stuff.

You can also easily be a professional bowler or golfer and while you may have a gut and not be in the greatest shape in the world, you're still considered an athlete, even though you might not be more "athletic" than the stronger, faster people in the world.

Re: Tiger Woods vs. Michael Jordan
 

How about this? No professional currently dominates his own sport at the same level as Tiger Woods. He is, as they say, battling history now more so than he is battling the rest of the field. Again though, you can say the same for Roger Federer.

Re: Tiger Woods vs. Michael Jordan
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;206666]No, I really think that an athlete is by definition a very fluid, subjective concept. It's almost like asking, "What is art?"

You can easily be one of the "World's Strongest Men" and be considered an athlete, while having no other talent than being able to pick up heavy stuff.

You can also easily be a professional bowler or golfer and while you may have a gut and not be in the greatest shape in the world, you're still considered an athlete, even though you might not be more "athletic" than the stronger, faster people in the world.[/quote]

Agreed. I do think it's a fluid definition. I also think our society or culture labels who we collectively consider an athlete. For instance, SI might run an article next week "Is Tiger Woods The Greatest Athlete?"...whereas duing the Nicholas era such a discussion may never have been thought of. I guess what I'm saying is where one generation never thought of a golfer as an athlete, Tiger might challenge that perception.

Re: Tiger Woods vs. Michael Jordan
 

When I consider that Tiger is 12-0 when leading or co-leading on the final day of a Major, I would say he is one of the greatest "closers" or clutch athletes of all time. MJ was a great "closer" as well, but in the world of golf, I don't think Nicholas has ever been undefeated when leading on the final day? what Tiger is doing these days is truely amazing. I mean if he is leading, he wins. Period. He knows it, the field knows it, the fans know it. It is unbelievable!

Re: Tiger Woods vs. Michael Jordan
 

[quote=TAFKAS;206667]How about this? No professional currently dominates his own sport at the same level as Tiger Woods. He is, as they say, battling history now more so than he is battling the rest of the field. Again though, you can say the same for Roger Federer.[/quote]

Kobiashi!!!

Re: Tiger Woods vs. Michael Jordan
 

I'm also just playing devil's advocate. I think Tiger really does dominate his respective sport like no one else playing currently.

Re: Tiger Woods vs. Michael Jordan
 

Except for Kobiashi.

Re: Tiger Woods vs. Michael Jordan
 

[QUOTE=scowan;206669]When I consider that Tiger is 12-0 when leading or co-leading on the final day of a Major, I would say he is one of the greatest "closers" or clutch athletes of all time. MJ was a great "closer" as well, but in the world of golf, I don't think Nicholas has ever been undefeated when leading on the final day? what Tiger is doing these days is truely amazing. I mean if he is leading, he wins. Period. He knows it, the field knows it, the fans know it. It is unbelievable![/QUOTE]

One knock on Tiger is that he's not known really for coming back on the final day if he's trailing. And one impressive stat about Nicklaus is not only 18 majors, but 19 second place finishes. I realize that second place is just the first loser, but still that's not bad.

And of course....Kobiashi!

Re: Tiger Woods vs. Michael Jordan
 

Finally! Give my boy some respect.

Re: Tiger Woods vs. Michael Jordan
 

I'm training to defeat him next year. I seriously think I can take him. He shows that you don't have to be a sloppy, fat bitch to win competitive eating contests. Next year, Coney Island will be bathed in TMC-excellence.

Re: Tiger Woods vs. Michael Jordan
 

I wouldn't sit too close though, because that excellence might get all over you if I eat TOO many dogs.

Re: Tiger Woods vs. Michael Jordan
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS;206675]One knock on Tiger is that he's not known really for coming back on the final day if he's trailing. And one impressive stat about Nicklaus is not only 18 majors, but 19 second place finishes. I realize that second place is just the first loser, but still that's not bad.

And of course....Kobiashi![/QUOTE]

I can remember Tiger making one ridiculous run on Sunday.

[QUOTE]2000 AT&T Pebble Beach National Pro-Am — Trailed Matt Gogel and Mark Brooks by 5 (and by 7 after 11 holes of final round), won by 2 over Gogel and Vijay Singh[/QUOTE]

That is from tigerwoods.com. I believe this was the tournament where he nailed that putt on the back 9 from about 20(ish) feet, walked it down and pointed to it as it dropped. I remember thinking that was one of the greatest comebacks I'd ever seen.

However, that is the only comeback along those lines I can remember him making.

Re: Tiger Woods vs. Michael Jordan
 

[quote=TAFKAS;206675]One knock on Tiger is that he's not known really for coming back on the final day if he's trailing. And one impressive stat about Nicklaus is not only 18 majors, but 19 second place finishes. I realize that second place is just the first loser, but still that's not bad.

And of course....Kobiashi![/quote]

TAFKAS, I think Tiger has come back a few times. He has now won 51 tournaments since he turned pro. I read somewhere that he has only played in like 200 or 201 tournaments, so he wins about every 4th tournament he enters. That is a ridiculas stat! Everyone talks about Phil, and Sergio, and Els and other guys like that, but Tiger wins even when he is not playing well, because he is the most mentally tough as well. He truley dominates his sport. Jack won his 18 major at age 46. If Tiger wins one a year from here on out he will be 38 by the time he wins number 18. He could easily win 2 a year at the rate he is going, just because the Master is at the same venue every year.

Re: Tiger Woods vs. Michael Jordan
 

Don't get me wrong. I think Tiger is truly awesome, really a once in a lifetime player that I'm glad I'm getting a chance to see live.

Re: Tiger Woods vs. Michael Jordan
 

[QUOTE=jdlea;206688]I can remember Tiger making one ridiculous run on Sunday.



That is from tigerwoods.com. I believe this was the tournament where he nailed that putt on the back 9 from about 20(ish) feet, walked it down and pointed to it as it dropped. I remember thinking that was one of the greatest comebacks I'd ever seen.

However, that is the only comeback along those lines I can remember him making.[/QUOTE]

Actually the pointing at the ball as it was heading in the hole was when he last won the pga championship(2000) vs. the no-namer Bob May. That was great Sunday of golf.

Re: Tiger Woods vs. Michael Jordan
 

tiger's good, but golf's not exciting, and i'd never go watch someone else play. Jordan's work in the olympics also turned basketball global. you can go to the middle of nowhere in africa and people there will know about Jordan and micheal jackson. so no, tiger isn't even close.

Re: Tiger Woods vs. Michael Jordan
 

[QUOTE=That Guy;206967]tiger's good, but golf's not exciting, and i'd never go watch someone else play. Jordan's work in the olympics also turned basketball global. you can go to the middle of nowhere in africa and people there will know about Jordan and micheal jackson. so no, tiger isn't even close.[/QUOTE]


the world is very well aware of tiger woods. tiger woods is just as global as michael jordan or michael jackson. you shouldn't let your opinion of a sport dictate how you think the world views a person. just because you don't like golf doesn't mean that the rest of the world feels the same way.

Re: Tiger Woods vs. Michael Jordan
 

[quote=NY_Skinsfan;206969]the world is very well aware of tiger woods. tiger woods is just as global as michael jordan or michael jackson. you shouldn't let your opinion of a sport dictate how you think the world views a person. just because you don't like golf doesn't mean that the rest of the world feels the same way.[/quote]

who said i did? you? look at the polls and stats.

i guarantee the chinese know jordan much better than tiger, since basketball has a huge following there. Golf doesn't the last i checked. America has a trivial % of the world's population, and I think you're guilty of what you're accusing me of :P

Re: Tiger Woods vs. Michael Jordan
 

first of all, you said you did. your opinion that golf is not exciting is not at all the same as the rest of the world. and if you disagree, show me something concrete, these polls and stats you speak of. i'd like to see you prove that jordan is more popular worldwide than tiger...otherwise it's just simply your opinion.

Re: Tiger Woods vs. Michael Jordan
 

Yes, I would have to disagree here also. I think the world is definitely aware of Tiger Woods. Maybe not golf so much, but definitely Tiger. Whether Michael Jordan has a bigger following in China...who knows. I would say, however, without looking at stats and polls, because of Tiger's Asian heritage that gives him some credibility.

Guy, I think your point is well taken about golf not being that exciting which to me makes Tiger even more of an icon. Many that hold the same sentiment will tune in in a heart beat just to see what Tiger did on any given day.

Re: Tiger Woods vs. Michael Jordan
 

On terms of athletic competiveness Jordan and Woods are on par with one another. On terms of raw athleticism, how many of you guys have ever started singing: [I]Sometimes I dream, that he is me[/I].... with regards to Woods' amazing athleticism? Come on! [I]Like Tiger, if I could be like Tiger. [/I]It doesn't work because he doesn't display any amazing feats of [B]athleticism[/B] that make you "wish you could do that".

I wouldn't mind trading paychecks, though.

Re: Tiger Woods vs. Michael Jordan
 

I think we tend to forget how dominating Jordan was. The end of his career he was really only a very tiny shadow of what he was in the mid 90's. The guy straight dominated. He could single handedly win basketball games like no one. I think Gretsky gets slighted because he plays a non-major sport(sorry hockey people). I think Tiger approaches but it is so hard to do it in an indivdual setting.

Re: Tiger Woods vs. Michael Jordan
 

[QUOTE=724Skinsfan;207004]On terms of athletic competiveness Jordan and Woods are on par with one another. On terms of raw athleticism, how many of you guys have ever started singing: [I]Sometimes I dream, that he is me[/I].... with regards to Woods' amazing athleticism? Come on! [I]Like Tiger, if I could be like Tiger. [/I]It doesn't work because he doesn't display any amazing feats of [B]athleticism[/B] that make you "wish you could do that".

I wouldn't mind trading paychecks, though.[/QUOTE]

Dude, he does a lot I wish I could do. Anybody who has ever played golf wishes they could hit it 300+ yards to a 4 yard area on a consistent basis. The athletic skill it takes to do that is not minimal.

Re: Tiger Woods vs. Michael Jordan
 

[quote=FRPLG;207035]Dude, he does a lot I wish I could do. Anybody who has ever played golf wishes they could hit it 300+ yards to a 4 yard area on a consistent basis. The athletic skill it takes to do that is not minimal.[/quote]

No argument here regarding Tigers absolutley amazing golf skills. If you notice, though, I prefaced my statement with "On terms of raw athleticism...."

Re: Tiger Woods vs. Michael Jordan
 

I don't think a conparison can be made until we can look at Tiger's career stats in total.

John Daly used to be considered a great golfer too.

Sometimes, one blown match kills these guys' careers and they never recover.




However, I'd consider MJ a better athlete...if not the BEST ever in any sport.

Jim Thorpe would be up there on the list too.

Re: Tiger Woods vs. Michael Jordan
 

No golfer, presently, even touches Tiger. Not Phil, not Sergio, not anybody.

As far as, MJ being the best ever I thought the same. But like I said, I just feel differently now.

Re: Tiger Woods vs. Michael Jordan
 

As for global impact, I'm sure Yao has something to do with basketball's boon in China. But more importantly, keep in mind that it's just easier for basketball to have an impact than golf. It's hard to turn a bunch of run down playgrounds around the world into basketball courts. Nike has done that all across China and it's signficantly increased basketball participation amoung its youth. It's not as easy to build hundreds of golf courses

Re: Tiger Woods vs. Michael Jordan
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;206677]I'm training to defeat him next year. I seriously think I can take him. He shows that you don't have to be a sloppy, fat bitch to win competitive eating contests. Next year, Coney Island will be bathed in TMC-excellence.[/quote]


That's hilarious because so was I.

I worked out a strategy to beat him.

I think I could do it and I'm a TINY man. :D

The title DOES need to return to the USA though.

Re: Tiger Woods vs. Michael Jordan
 

[quote=NY_Skinsfan;206979]first of all, you said you did. your opinion that golf is not exciting is not at all the same as the rest of the world. and if you disagree, show me something concrete, these polls and stats you speak of. i'd like to see you prove that jordan is more popular worldwide than tiger...otherwise it's just simply your opinion.[/quote]

why don't you show me something concrete instead of speaking like your opinion is the truth and not "just" your opinion. otherwise, get off your high horse.