Excellent perspective on Pats game
 

For an emotionally controlled perspective, check out this analysis from the Extremeskins board:

[URL="http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=166190"]EXTREMESKINS.com - Notes from the Pats Game BASED ON SPECIFIC OBSERVATIONS[/URL]

Re: Excellent perspective on Pats game
 

you mean our coaching staff was not trying to win? honestly, does anyone really care if the redskins win another preseason game ever?

Re: Excellent perspective on Pats game
 

Very good analysis from this Bob guy.

Re: Excellent perspective on Pats game
 

Great analasys, I'd read this guy over Wilbon any day.

Re: Excellent perspective on Pats game
 

he made some good points,he actually made me feel better about the loss

Re: Excellent perspective on Pats game
 

Good article.

Everyone thats flipping out needs to relax ans wait until week one...I think since Portis got injured everyone is running at half speed during preseason...They will give 110% starting week 1

Re: Excellent perspective on Pats game
 

well done, very well done. Impressive too...the more I think about it, the more it seems correct that they were calling plays on defense that called on the weakness of each player, also on offense the brunell part made sense about quick passes with no time.

I give him an A+. I knew it wasn't a big deal that they lost, but I didn't realize they were working on things that well in the process.

Re: Excellent perspective on Pats game
 

He makes some good points, but I mean he still sugarcoats the Defense alot more. Also he is almost suggesting Gibbs and the coaches wanted their players to lose, which I highly doubt.

Re: Excellent perspective on Pats game
 

He makes good points. Also of note is the fact that Gibbs, Williams, and Saunders have all made statements about putting guys in certain positions to see what they do. I am hoping last night was that case. I just can't believe our line got pushed around that bad.

Re: Excellent perspective on Pats game
 

if any of you saw the gibbs press conference today on redskins.com, he says that he thought Brunell did pretty well, even though he really didnt do anything...so he must know something that we dont

Re: Excellent perspective on Pats game
 

I liked the piece--though it doesn't excuse the total lack of fire by players out there. Still, I'm happy to believe his analysis for now. We'll know on the 11th.

Re: Excellent perspective on Pats game
 

i agree, great post by this guy. but i also agree he sugar coats the defense. but overall the post makes a ton of sense, A+

Re: Excellent perspective on Pats game
 

anyone here watch that close and confirm his play selection observations? it'd be great if it were all true.

Re: Excellent perspective on Pats game
 

[QUOTE=illdefined;209176]anyone here watch that close and confirm his play selection observations? it'd be great if it were all true.[/QUOTE]

Not positive. But I do know that after the game yesterday, Brunell said there were several plays they wanted to practice and execute properly and they felt they got those plays down. As if to say, they weren't thinking of the scoreboard or the game situation necessarily they were just intent on executing certain plays repeatedly until they got them down.

Re: Excellent perspective on Pats game
 

There are concerns coming out of this game, and the biggest IMO is our kicking game, why they continue to stick with Frost is beyond me, and I would have cut bait with Hall as well, no sense in keeping an average field goal kicker who can't kick off nor stay healthy, we are just asking for problems with this guy.

Jansen was beat to the outside a couple of times I know that wasen't by design.

Until we line up our starters and throw the kitchen sink at a team we are not going to know for sure what they can do, but if anyone thinks the Pats are going to put up 41 points on a G.Williams defense in the regular season when healthy thier crazy, I do hope Rocky is a quick learner because he is far and away better than Holdman.

I do believe the most mysterious question mark we have is the O-line? Are they overated? Have our offensive woes been because of a very weak and highly overated O-line, or an inferior game plan, that question will finally be answered in week 1.

Re: Excellent perspective on Pats game
 

Well after reading that article I have a renewed since of optimism. But come on guys would the coaching staffing actually do that? I dont know it sure sounds good but i am still a little worried knowing sept 11 is right around the corner.

Re: Excellent perspective on Pats game
 

[quote=illdefined;209176]anyone here watch that close and confirm his play selection observations? it'd be great if it were all true.[/quote]

Yeah. After reading the post I went back and watched the tape. We ran almost every play on offense out of three formations. Every run play was run with the 5 down linemen and a TE, usually with a 2 back set left and right of the QB. The pass plays were three WRs grouped on one side or the other, no motion, and they made sure that no one, TE's or RB's, helped the o-line on blocking (except an occasional chip by the RB). The defense never disguised anything. They showed thier blitz, let Brady adjust, and then came anyway. They wanted to isolate a defender man on man against the TE but got outplayed. Gibbs confirmed this in his press conference.

No excuse for special teams play. That was awful.

Re: Excellent perspective on Pats game
 

[QUOTE=GoSkins!;209210]Yeah. After reading the post I went back and watched the tape. We ran almost every play on offense out of three formations. Every run play was run with the 5 down linemen and a TE, usually with a 2 back set left and right of the QB. The pass plays were three WRs grouped on one side or the other, no motion, and they made sure that no one, TE's or RB's, helped the o-line on blocking (except an occasional chip by the RB). The defense never disguised anything. They showed thier blitz, let Brady adjust, and then came anyway. They wanted to isolate a defender man on man against the TE but got outplayed. Gibbs confirmed this in his press conference.

No excuse for special teams play. That was awful.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for confirming that, GoSkins.

:goodjob:

Re: Excellent perspective on Pats game
 

[quote=vaoutlaws2006;209203]Well after reading that article I have a renewed since of optimism. But come on guys would the coaching staffing actually do that? I dont know it sure sounds good but i am still a little worried knowing sept 11 is right around the corner.[/quote]

Of course they would, they've done similar things in the past.

In 2004 Gregg Williams wanted Sean Taylor to get a taste of getting burned in a preseason game against the Rams, so he left him with no help and go figure he got burned. Williams basically laughed at the media after the game saying they didn't know what the hell was going on when they asked why the secondary was so shaky.

Think of these preseason games as an extension of practice. The coaches are setting up certain scenarios, letting mismatches get created against them, all to analyze the strengths and weaknesses of individual players.

They're coming at these games from an entirely different perspective than we can probably even totally understand. We look at the score, stats, and if player A got beat by player B. I can guarantee they're looking at things ALOT differently than we are.

Wasn't Gibbs' postgame reactions a little odd after the Patriots game?? He didn't look frazzled or frustrated as he usually does after a loss, especially a complete ass whoppin' like that.

What better time is there to give the team a taste of humility than when the games don't count? What better time to strike a fire in this team's belly than in the preseason? What better frame of reference for the team to have headed into a nationally televised season opener than this horrible preseason?? You just know the coaches are using this to their advantage, so when the team comes out of that tunnel on 9/11 they're going to be chomping at the bit to show the world what they're really made of.

Re: Excellent perspective on Pats game
 

I have to say when I saw the score 41-0 my first thought was wow we really sicken. But now untill 9/11 when all what you didin the perseason mean nothing good or bad we will see the real deal! Be that good or bad. The team has not been game planing each team and there is a lot to that but not 41-0 beatting. So a lot of work in 2 weeks!

Re: Excellent perspective on Pats game
 

I got a chance to watch the game back on Tivo yesterday. I followed extremely closely. I few observations:

- This ES guy is Extremely wrong about the amount of motion the Skins ran. In the first half I counted at least 7 plays in which they ran motion.

- Brunell was indeed mostly working with minimum protection, only the 5 lineman in to block on passing downs.

- A long comebacker to Moss got dropped because Moss slipped. If he didn't slip that play goes for 35 yards, and that's if Moss doesn't get away from Asante Samuel before the hit.

- Ladell Betts looked good on plays in which more than 5 blockers were there. On other plays, Saunders seemed to be spreading the field and then running Betts right up the gut. I don't think that's the normal plan of attack. If you're going to spread the field like that and then run, you need to run either draws or toss-sweeps.

- Brunell was throwing the ball with good zip. I don't think the groin is a problem.

- The first team defense got gashed by a Brady screen pass to Dillon (the one where Dillon got poked in the eye). This was an amazing pass and I thought it was well-defended. It was just Brady being Brady, not much you can do.

- Carlos Rogers didn't look that good to me.

- I don't think the secondary was communicating very well. Either that or Sean Taylor simply was out of position on that deep throw to Troy Brown that took the Pats down to the 5 yard line.

- There's no excuse for a blocked kick. Our kicking game is very troubling.

- I'm not at all worried about the offensive line (except for depth). Saunders is indeed trying to find out how the starters handle min protection. Normally, there will be a back there to pick up blitzers. This game, Saunders sent them all out to the flat.

- The defense didn't tackle. That's a big problem. You can scheme all you want in the regular season, but if you don't tackle you've got problems.

All in all, there are things that are very troubling. The kicking game is the biggest one because there's no scheming or "going vanilla" with that stuff. It's basic football, line up and kick. And we suck at it. But Saunders has not done any scheming, so I'm not going to put much stock in the offensive performance. It's just hard because since he hasn't shown ANY of the offense, we're going to head into the season without seeing any progress between Brunell and the WRs on the routes they actually plan to run. Against the Vikes, Saunders is going to unleash hell. But we've got to wonder, can the players execute it? Right now we essentially have no clue.

On defense, we're missing key starters. And this is the phase of the game I'm least worried about. GW does not have down years; he's not scheming at all in this preseason, so I think they'll turn it on. They need to tackle though, that's alarming.

All in all, I'm not freaking out yet. But I'm not supremely confident either. I have lots of questions. All I can do is trust that Gibbs will have it ready to go. We'll see what happens.

Re: Excellent perspective on Pats game
 

Oh and Randy Thomas looks VERY healthy to me. I saw him moving out on the edges with a lot of speed. He's good to go, the bulldozer is back.

Re: Excellent perspective on Pats game
 

A little more regarding Gibbs seemingly strange level of calmness after the game:

[url=http://blog.washingtonpost.com/trainingcampinsider/2006/08/monday_morning_hback_1.html]Monday Morning H-Back - Training Camp Insider[/url]

[quote]1 - Joe Gibbs - The Freshmaker. Gotta give it to Joe. He always keeps ya guessing. A week after bringing a temper into his post-game press conference, Gibbs was tranquil as can be following the 41-0 debacle at New England Saturday night. I thought he might take a more docile approach like this - loving up the boys after beating them up; remaining calm when some would voice their obvious concerns - but he was downright chipper. Didn't quite bank on that.

Joe walked in nearly smiling, and immediately launched into platitudes about the Patriots. "The first thing for us to do is give a big thumbs up to New England," Gibbs said right off the bat, at which point he literally lifted a thumb and held it for a moment, like the money shot at the end of one of those legendary Mentos commercials. I was kind of floored. Gibbs never mentioned the word concerned once all night, played down any on-field issues, and preached team unity above all else. It reminded me of his tact last year when the team was 5-6 and on playoff life support. They rallied for five straight wins to reach the postseason for the first time since 1999, then won at Tampa in the wildcard.

This is what Joe does best - manage people, manage difficult situations, convey a massage. He should have more time than ever to work with all areas of coaches and players now that he's no longer running the daily operation of the offense, and it'll be put to use this week, I'm sure.

[/quote]

Re: Excellent perspective on Pats game
 

[QUOTE=GoSkins!;209210]Yeah. After reading the post I went back and watched the tape. We ran almost every play on offense out of three formations. Every run play was run with the 5 down linemen and a TE, usually with a 2 back set left and right of the QB. The pass plays were three WRs grouped on one side or the other, no motion, and they made sure that no one, TE's or RB's, helped the o-line on blocking (except an occasional chip by the RB). The defense never disguised anything. They showed thier blitz, let Brady adjust, and then came anyway. They wanted to isolate a defender man on man against the TE but got outplayed. Gibbs confirmed this in his press conference.[/QUOTE]

yeah thanks for checking back. so, were the Pats just that much better one on one or were they testing deeper into their playbook?

3 quarters of leaving people one on one vs. the Pats, we're lucky no one got hurt.

Re: Excellent perspective on Pats game
 

[quote=illdefined;209229] so, were the Pats just that much better one on one or were they testing deeper into their playbook[/quote]

We had Mark Brunnell being tested by Al Saunders. They had HOF bound Tom Brady executing a simple version of the same offense he has been running for years. The Pats protected Brady and he performed well.

Re: Excellent perspective on Pats game
 

[QUOTE=GoSkins!;209233]We had Mark Brunnell being tested by Al Saunders. They had HOF bound Tom Brady executing a simple version of the same offense he has been running for years. The Pats protected Brady and he performed well.[/QUOTE]

interesting, wish i couldve seen the game.

so the Pats kept their backs in to protect him? when we sent ours out in the flat, did Brunell throw to them at all? one thing i know about Saunders is he likes the screen..

Re: Excellent perspective on Pats game
 

Honestly... Does anyone really think the Redskins lose 41-0 to New England during the regular season?

Re: Excellent perspective on Pats game
 

If Robert Kraft died, then yes.

Re: Excellent perspective on Pats game
 

[QUOTE=EEich;209272]Honestly... Does anyone really think the Redskins lose 41-0 to New England during the regular season?[/QUOTE]

no, but i'm worried we'd lose.

Re: Excellent perspective on Pats game
 

[quote=illdefined;209274]no, but i'm worried we'd lose.[/quote]

Ditto.

Re: Excellent perspective on Pats game
 

[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection;209273]If Robert Kraft died, then yes.[/QUOTE]

Damn. You cold

Re: Excellent perspective on Pats game
 

Too soon? ;)

Re: Excellent perspective on Pats game
 

Oh I get it... because of what the giants did to us after THEIR owner died last year.

Very good.

Re: Excellent perspective on Pats game
 

oh... thats funny... i get jokes...

Re: Excellent perspective on Pats game
 

In related news, Dan Snyder has agreed to "die" every Thursday this season. Ok, I better stop now...TMC, I'll see you in hell I guess

Re: Excellent perspective on Pats game
 

I get the top bunk!

Re: Excellent perspective on Pats game
 

[quote=Mattyk72;209215]Of course they would, they've done similar things in the past.

In 2004 Gregg Williams wanted Sean Taylor to get a taste of getting burned in a preseason game against the Rams, so he left him with no help and go figure he got burned. Williams basically laughed at the media after the game saying they didn't know what the hell was going on when they asked why the secondary was so shaky.

Think of these preseason games as an extension of practice. The coaches are setting up certain scenarios, letting mismatches get created against them, all to analyze the strengths and weaknesses of individual players.

They're coming at these games from an entirely different perspective than we can probably even totally understand. We look at the score, stats, and if player A got beat by player B. I can guarantee they're looking at things ALOT differently than we are.

Wasn't Gibbs' postgame reactions a little odd after the Patriots game?? He didn't look frazzled or frustrated as he usually does after a loss, especially a complete ass whoppin' like that.

What better time is there to give the team a taste of humility than when the games don't count? What better time to strike a fire in this team's belly than in the preseason? What better frame of reference for the team to have headed into a nationally televised season opener than this horrible preseason?? You just know the coaches are using this to their advantage, so when the team comes out of that tunnel on 9/11 they're going to be chomping at the bit to show the world what they're really made of.[/quote]

well i really didnt think of it like that...getting burned on one single play okay....but to basically "throw a game" in essence as a motivation ploy?....i dont know seems like i am drawing at one heck of a straw. I am a die hard redskin fan of 34 years and I am just a little worried to play like this. There have been no glimpses of any promise except for maybe Jason Campbell. I have liked alot of what I have seen of him. All I can say my friend is I hope you are right.

Re: Excellent perspective on Pats game
 

OK so in this guys mind getting your QB get hit what 5 or 6 times is part of a game plan to see if he can stay healthy.

Look we all know coaches don't try to show a lot and try to put their team in scenarios to see how the can handle it and correct some things before the season starts.

But if that was the case and as much said it of oline with only 5 lineman and quick passes still the scenario was a loss Brunnel couldn't move the ball the Oline couldn't protect him the D looked vanilla against a Patriot's team that also wasn't trying to show much.

And in 3 games the offense hasn't click you can say any scenario Saunders or Gibbs are trying to see of their players but at some point they want to see what they've been practicing work move some chains get rhythm and some confidence in the system.

Look is not time to push the panic button at all but you can't be so naive to say everything is OK it was all planned Gibbs meant to made your offense look like crap for 3 games in a row and the defense look lost and out of position the hole game it's just not real.

Re: Excellent perspective on Pats game
 

You say all this stuff, but do you REALLY think this team has regressed THIS much while keeping the entire offensive and defensive lines intact? The Redskins have only added quality players while losing only malcontents.

Re: Excellent perspective on Pats game
 

[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection;209396]You say all this stuff, but do you REALLY think this team has regressed THIS much while keeping the entire offensive and defensive lines intact? The Redskins have only added quality players while losing only malcontents.[/QUOTE]

that's all true MC, but we also totally rejiggered the offense. took us most of last season to get Gibbs' offense working right. and we were working with it for years.

i'm concerned changing to Saunders's scheme may have been a bigger disruption to this offense than anticipated.