Shawn Springs
 

I read a response to a thread, stating that "Gregg Williams had put all his eggs in one basket" referring to Sean Springs. This got me thinking....can ONE player turn the defense from a top 10 from a bottom 12 (NFL stats for total D)? Would Baltimore's defense be a bottom 12 without Ray Lewis? Would Chicago's be a bottom 12 without Urlacher?

After much tought, IMOF that QB is the only position that can drastically turn a team around. For example, I can't imagine the Colts, Pats, or the Eagles, Ravens, would be anywhere near that top of their game without their starting QB's.

Hence, I don't think ONE defensive player can change a defense that dramtically (other than a player in the mold of a LT or the Minister of D). I've got a couple of thoughts on our defense.....1) I truly think the skins defensive problems are much larger. I don't see skins other than Taylor are going all out.....is it just me or does it look like there is some fire missing. I know Taylor got burned on that one toss to Burress {sp} but he is causing fumbles, going hard....2) I feel the change in cornerback coaches has made a REAL difference... Our DB play has been real poor. Last year even Jimoh and the jouneyman safety that got hurt in the first play of this year looked like world beaters. That is coaching.

Would love to hear your thoughts....

my 2 cents.

Re: Sean Springs
 

Who knows if we could use Sean Springs. Shawn Springs on the other hand...

Re: Sean Springs
 

Boy, I hope you are wrong. We need Sean to turn our defense around, cause it sucks.

Re: Sean Springs
 

[B]Shawn[/B] Springs is definitely missed, but one guy that we've all overlooked a bit is Prioleau. The loss of both of these guys really hurt. Losing these guys has had a ripple effect on the rest of the secondary.

C'mon guys, it's Shawn, not Sean. And for the millionth time it's Darrell Green, not Daryl.

Re: Shawn Springs
 

Is it too much to ask that we spell his name right? It's Shawn, not Sean. I mean we're not talking about Ifeanyi Ohalete here.

Re: Shawn Springs
 

[quote=TAFKAS;226504]Is it too much to ask that we spell his name right? It's Shawn, not Sean. I mean we're not talking about Ifeanyi Ohalete here.[/quote]

Even then, just toss the name in google and if you're close enough it will give you the correct spelling. It's not that hard.

Re: Shawn Springs
 

TAFKAS,

Got the message the first time.

I got it right on the title, but had a pint of Guinness while writing the body of the message and well, went with the Irish spelling.

It was not my intent to rise your ire, but to rise thought on the subject.

Re: Shawn Springs
 

If you can trust your CB to play man-to-man, yes one guy does make a difference. There are 3 key positions that are very important to every defense, the MLB, one CB and the FS. If you look at every good defense out there you'll notice they have studs in all three positions. With our current lineup only ST stands out and he has his share of issues.

Re: Shawn Springs
 

The problems on D are greater than just missing Taylor. The D backfield play has been shaky, and we get ZERO pass rush from the front 4 without blitzing. I hate to say this, but Andre Carter is looking like a major bust. One sack and virtually no QB pressures through 5 games is a joke for what he's being paid.

Re: Shawn Springs
 

[quote=SouperMeister;226509]The problems on D are greater than just missing Taylor. The D backfield play has been shaky, and we get ZERO pass rush from the front 4 without blitzing. I hate to say this, but Andre Carter is looking like a major bust. One sack and virtually no QB pressures through 5 games is a joke for what he's being paid.[/quote]
Correction, I obviously meant greather than just missing Springs ;-)

Re: Shawn Springs
 

[QUOTE=lifetimeskin;226507]TAFKAS,

Got the message the first time.

I got it right on the title, but had a pint of Guinness while writing the body of the message and well, went with the Irish spelling.

It was not my intent to rise your ire, but to rise thought on the subject.[/QUOTE]

I figured you got it but then someone else didn't. And it's not the first time it's been spelled wrong.

Wasn't directed at you specifically, it was a universal attack :)

Re: Shawn Springs
 

[quote=lifetimeskin;226507]TAFKAS,

Got the message the first time.

I got it right on the title, but had a pint of Guinness while writing the body of the message and well, went with the Irish spelling.

It was not my intent to rise your ire, but to rise thought on the subject.[/quote]

Actually I edited the title, you had it wrong there too

Re: Shawn Springs
 

GW will be more comfortable leaving our corners in man coverage, which in turn opens up the blitz, which then causes a rushed throw, leading to a more confident secondary.... basically it could be exponential the impact a #1 corner has in this defense in particular.

Run on sentences aside, if Springs is healthy, he will improve the defense greatly. I can remember hearing the announcers make a good point on sunday saying how the D-Line has so much pressure to catalyze a pash rush because of our weak secondary. Without the help of blitzing safeties (which I'm assuming AA was brought in for, to blitz) we have no strength. On top of that we couldn't even stop the run which sealed the deal. We need SS bad. I'll be in the "thanking the universe" thread in the mean time.

Re: Shawn Springs
 

I would point to lito sheppards impact with the eagles as perfect example of the effect a pro-bowl caliber corner can have on making the entire defense better. They got torched in the air by the giants, made alex smith and david carr look decent, and then completely shutdown the cowboys. Could shawn springs have a similar affect our team? certainly couldnt hurt

Re: Shawn Springs
 

We also need Darrell Green back...not as a player, but as a coach. Both guys at starting corner at the end of his tenure have done pretty well (Bailey and Smoot.) I've always wondered if Green impacted their development. In addition, the pub would be good for his charity.

As far as Springs coming back, I think it's bigger than CP for the offense. The coaches got the players to fill certain positions. With Springs out, everybody except the line is playing off-balance (trying to help others who are weak), and few are plying their strengths. AA shouldn't be in pass support. We get an extra rusher for "free". Taylor can play his "real" position. DBs won't have to play 15 yards off the line of scrimmage, so they can come up on running plays. We can blitz. The only positive I see now is that Springs probably doesn't impact any game until Dallas in a month, so there's time. We should beat the Titans and lose to the Colts, so we'll be 3-4 before the bye week. After that, most of the tough teams we will play at home, and the offense should have worked out all the kinks by then. Note that we've already played 2 of the 3 away games in the division, and none of the home games. I could easily see we go 7-2 after the bye week, assuming Springs is back (giving the defense some teeth) and the offense has some sort of rhythm. So if he comes back in a month, we should have a good chance to make the playoffs.

Re: Shawn Springs
 

When we had Rashad Bauman, some reporter had asked Champ Bailey if he and Rashad had learned from DG. Particularly Bauman because he's the same size as Green.

I don't remember Bailey's exact quote but he basically said that Green was blessed with remarkable natural athletic ability and that wasn't something he could teach. That neither he (Bailey) nor Bauman really learned anything from Green because the way he played wasnt something that could really be taught. He was just one of those once in a lifetime players.

I wouldn't rush to throw Jerry Gray under a bus.

Re: Shawn Springs
 

It's not like I'm thinking about getting rid of anybody. (Salaries for coaches doesn't seem to be an issue ;-), so I'm thinking of an addition, not a replacement.) But is it really possible that he couldn't help the current crew somehow? Even if it's to have them play with more confidence, so I feel like they're playing on their toes, and not on their heels. In addition, the current DBs aren't ever looking back for the ball. (In mathematics, my original area, when you explain a concept and somebody doesn't get it, you try explaining it in different ways, until they finally (hopefully) get it.) So, if we're lucky, he can show the DBs something that "clicks" for them. And since he has been such a large part of the best years of this franchise, it might help with the mindset of the players. (I don't think Danny would mind throwing money his way.)

[QUOTE=TAFKAS;226530]When we had Rashad Bauman, some reporter had asked Champ Bailey if he and Rashad had learned from DG. Particularly Bauman because he's the same size as Green.

I don't remember Bailey's exact quote but he basically said that Green was blessed with remarkable natural athletic ability and that wasn't something he could teach. That neither he (Bailey) nor Bauman really learned anything from Green because the way he played wasnt something that could really be taught. He was just one of those once in a lifetime players.

I wouldn't rush to throw Jerry Gray under a bus.[/QUOTE]

Re: Shawn Springs
 

Some people just can't teach. No matter how talented a player they are. Magic Johnson comes to mind. But I mean who knows, I'm sure a lot of people have and would benefit from learning from Green

Even more importantly, I don't think Green is even interested really. But if we're going to add someone from the glory years then I say Vernon Dean. He has extensive experience as a secondary coach in the NFL

Re: Shawn Springs
 

I'm sorry to hear about that. At this point I'm about ready to take Mother Teresa (not of the weekly films) if she would help this secondary. (Maybe she could start if she were still alive. ;-)) (I would NOT get (Ego) Deion Sanders, as I just can't stand the guy. Maybe we can get TO to run a fly pattern with Sanders covering him, and have him go long until they're in the middle of the Atlantic!)

One idea is to get someone to throw a ball at the (other team's) receivers when a pass is about to arrive. That way they'll hopefully get confused as to which is the real ball! ;-)
At this point this is the only way I see to shore up the secondary until Springs gets back.

In reality, one has to joke about this situation since the truth is very harsh. Our current personnel situation feels like only having band-aids when performing major surgery.

Hopefully Springs will be back by Dallas round 2. If so, we have a good chance of salvaging the year.

[QUOTE=TAFKAS;226546]Some people just can't teach. No matter how talented a player they are. Magic Johnson comes to mind. But I mean who knows, I'm sure a lot of people have and would benefit from learning from Green

Even more importantly, I don't think Green is even interested really. But if we're going to add someone from the glory years then I say Vernon Dean. He has extensive experience as a secondary coach in the NFL[/QUOTE]

Re: Shawn Springs
 

jerry gray is a good coach. i think what you're seeing is a lack of talent at db, and a lack of depth.

i agree that the problem probably won't be fixed with just one player. but 1 person can make a much bigger difference if your depth is terrible. I mean, if grossman goes down, that sucks for chicago, but griese can play. i don't think they have depth at MLB that's anywhere close to urlacher though.

Re: Shawn Springs
 

i will the first to admit im wrong if springs comes back. and everything suddenly becomes ok. i think there is more to it than shawn springs

Re: Shawn Springs
 

It's not for lack of Shawn. It's for lack of being able to scheme Arch & Carter in. Neither is a bag of chips and all that. The former may have led the D in tackles, but neither is blowing up "O's" we've faced. Gentlemen, we may have paid too much for this muffler!

Re: Shawn Springs
 

scheme for carter? how hard is it? get to the quarterback once in a while

Re: Shawn Springs
 

AA is more or less waste. maybe not a bad player, but seems to be overpaid.

i think our D style really relies on a good cover corner though. yes it's a gambling D, but you have to have some outstanding DB play to break up some of those passes in the event the blitz doesn't get to the Q.

Re: Shawn Springs
 

From the sounds of today's WPost it sounds like Springs is optimistic about returning soon. I'd say he's out this week, but perhaps after the bye he'll be close to a return. It can't be soon enough, we need him back for the stretch run before it's too late.

Re: Shawn Springs
 

Lot of great discussion in this thread. This is NOT a retarded thread.

A few things:

Jerry Gray knows CB technique. He is a very accomplished coach and a very accomplished NFL DB in his own right. He's not the problem.

Prioleau is definitely missed as Matty said. He was supposed to come in on passing downs to get Archuleta off the field in those situations.

But Springs does have a massive impact on the D. Rogers can't handle a #1 receiver yet. But he can handle a #2. Wright can't handle #2s like he used to, but he can handle #3s. You get Springs back, and suddenly we're matching up against WRs a whole lot better all the way across the field.

And a lot of time our pass rush is only a split second away from getting to the QB before he throws it. If Springs can give us just a hair more time, we'll start to see some more sacks and big plays. The impact is huge.

Re: Sean Springs
 

[quote=Mattyk72;226503][B]Shawn[/B] Springs is definitely missed, but one guy that we've all overlooked a bit is Prioleau. The loss of both of these guys really hurt. Losing these guys has had a ripple effect on the rest of the secondary.

C'mon guys, it's Shawn, not Sean. And for the millionth time it's Darrell Green, not Daryl.[/quote]

We all know that Sean Springs and Daryl Green are some of Joe Gibb's favorite players. :vomit:

Re: Shawn Springs
 

schneed, good post. i guess we will find out how big that half second is, soon as #24 comes back

Re: Shawn Springs
 

Yeah. It's hard to take any NFL team for granted, and it's hard to predict what's going to happen from week to week. But I'm going to attempt it anyway. I think we should beat the Titans without Shawn Springs, and I think we'd lose to the Colts even if he were healthy. So I'd really like to see the team shoot to get him back after the bye for the Nov 5th game against Dallas.

If he can come back healthy for the Colts then great. But if he's risking injury, I'd rather see him sit out the extra two weeks and get fully healthy for Dallas and for the stretch run.

Re: Shawn Springs
 

Of course then again, the Colts needed late game heroics to beat the Jets, and the Titans almost took them down last weekend. So really who the hell knows. Come back healthy, Shawn. We need you!

Re: Shawn Springs
 

I thought on the first couple of series we did a pretty good job of getting Manning. We just came off a very hard fought game and they where coming off their buy week. The D this year looks like they are playing not to give up the big play and by doing so are giving them up. This just does not look like a Williams D. Maybe we need to force the issue a little more and if the big plays happen they happen. I'm not noticing guy sworming to the ball like they have in the past and that could be that teams are spreading us out because we have given up so many big plays.

Re: Shawn Springs
 

Springs is what people in the military call a "force multiplier," he allows the defense to do so many things that his value to the unit far exceeds his talents and skills as an individual. I honestly believe that a lot of things will come together once Springs comes back.

Re: Shawn Springs
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;226957]Springs is what people in the military call a "force multiplier," he allows the defense to do so many things that his value to the unit far exceeds his talents and skills as an individual. I honestly believe that a lot of things will come together once Springs comes back.[/quote]

Yes. That explains it perfectly. He makes the defense look dynamic with his versatility. He's not only the best cover man in the secondary but also the best blitzer, and a solid tackler. A great post by the Sheriff.

Re: Shawn Springs
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;226957]Springs is what people in the military call a "force multiplier," he allows the defense to do so many things that his value to the unit far exceeds his talents and skills as an individual. I honestly believe that a lot of things will come together once Springs comes back.[/quote]
I tend to agree with you. It's exponential the effect he brings to this defense. Look at 2005 for an example. Once springs was hurt we fell apart.

I feel like I'm putting all my frustrations into one player, but I really think his impact may have season implications. I would like him back for the Colts, but I'd rather have him 100% healthy after the bye week.

Re: Shawn Springs
 

yes, shawn springs is a very important part of our defense ... but the REAL problem is depth. you can't expect to be injury-free, especially with someone shawn's age. unfortunately, we don't have depth because we've traded away all our draft picks, and have used all our cap room. shawn springs has been getting old now for a while, and everyone knows it -- hell, he got injured last year too. this is the time when a normal franchise would have replacements -- remember philly when they didn't resign their #1 and #2 CBs (vincent and taylor)? everyone thought they were gonna suffer big ... well they didn't because they were prepared, and now they have one of the top secondaries in the NFL. :(

Re: Shawn Springs
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;227001]yes, shawn springs is a very important part of our defense ... but the REAL problem is depth. you can't expect to be injury-free, especially with someone shawn's age. unfortunately, we don't have depth because we've traded away all our draft picks, and have used all our cap room. shawn springs has been getting old now for a while, and everyone knows it -- hell, he got injured last year too. this is the time when a normal franchise would have replacements -- remember philly when they didn't resign their #1 and #2 CBs (vincent and taylor)? everyone thought they were gonna suffer big ... well they didn't because they were prepared, and now they have one of the top secondaries in the NFL. :([/quote]

when sheppard and wynn aren't hurt.

Re: Shawn Springs
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;227001]yes, shawn springs is a very important part of our defense ... but the REAL problem is depth. you can't expect to be injury-free, especially with someone shawn's age. unfortunately, we don't have depth because we've traded away all our draft picks, and have used all our cap room. shawn springs has been getting old now for a while, and everyone knows it -- hell, he got injured last year too. this is the time when a normal franchise would have replacements -- remember philly when they didn't resign their #1 and #2 CBs (vincent and taylor)? everyone thought they were gonna suffer big ... well they didn't because they were prepared, and now they have one of the top secondaries in the NFL. :([/quote]

How deep do you expect the secondary to be?

We've lost two very key contributors in Springs and Prioleau. I'd really be curious to see how things would look right now if we had lost only one of these guys. Prioleau was so valuable because of his versatility. Losing him was a double shot to the secondary because he could play corner and safety.

Re: Shawn Springs
 

I expect the secondary to be deep enough to deal with the loss of one starting CB, and one backup safety.

but that isn't really the point I was trying to make. shawn springs is old ... why aren't we prepared to lose him? we can't expect him to be around much longer ... what's gonna happen next year?

Re: Shawn Springs
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;227020]I expect the secondary to be deep enough to deal with the loss of one starting CB, and one backup safety.

but that isn't really the point I was trying to make. shawn springs is old ... why aren't we prepared to lose him? we can't expect him to be around much longer ... what's gonna happen next year?[/quote]

Hopefully Rogers is the guy to take Springs' place as the #1.

We'll obviously need to address the CB position in the offseason.

You simply can't have enough depth at every position to compensate for injuries. If we had lost Prioleau earlier, I doubt we would have stood pat with what we had. Losing him on the first play of the season was a disaster.

In the meantime we have to deal with what we've got and get guys to improve their play.

Re: Shawn Springs
 

Is Springs done for the season?

3- weeks for a hamstring?