Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

first I just want to say that this is not to compare Taylor to Williams.

With that said, I think those two players are over-rated. The media and fans have gotten into their heads and made them think HARDEST HIT = WIN.

I see that both players get burnned, and when you are somone of Taylor's and Williams talent it shouldn't happen to you that badly.

I mean the game against the Jaguars Taylor put a vicious hit on the receiver but the guy still held on to the ball for a TD. In the game against the Eagles Williams gave up two huge plays because he is looking for the big hit.

My question then, are they really over-rated or are they playing the wrong positions?

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

don't get me wrong but, taylor was amazing in coverage his rookie season, but now it seems like he just goes for the big hit rather than the ball. i don't know

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

Taylor has looked bad at times this season, because he's in a banged up secondary and the front four doesn't get any pressure AT ALL, which makes any secondary look bad. He's the playmaker on the defense and he single handedly solidified a win in the last game of the season last year, that put Washington into the playoffs.

Roy Williams on the other hand, was great his first couple seasons, and has lived off reputation ever since. The only plays I remember him making the last few seasons are the ones where he injures players with that bitch horse collar tackle that he invented.

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

I think the problem with 21 is that, with Springs hurt and Archuletta a coverage liability, too many coverage duties are falling to Taylor. People who like to criticize him say, "Look what Burress and Toomer did to Taylor". Well Taylor should not be covering #1 and #2 receivers one on one. The Redskins defensive scheme is in complete disarray right now. Maybe it is because Springs is out, Clark & Stoudtmire are gone, Prieleau is on the shelf etc. But this defense is a shell of it's former self ('05, '04).

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

taylor is still my favorite player

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

Well I definitely think RW is overrated. He has always been a liability in pass coverage and at the end of the day a Safety has to bring something to the table in coverage. In the same vein I am starting to wonder when Taylor is gonna start making plays other than big hits. He covers lots of the field and always seems to be in on the tackle but I want to start seeing some high light reel coverage plays. It is only his 3rd year so I give him more leeway but I hope to see this happen by the end of this year.

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

Taylor is picking up slack.. trying to make things happen.. so he isn't always consistent... Seems to be a "team" problem, not a Taylor problem. That man is a beast.. and a God in my book.

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

i always think of how sean taylor would be as a linebacker, if he put on like a couple or so pounds, he would be amazing

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

[QUOTE=Grim21Reaper;227207]I think the problem with 21 is that, with Springs hurt and Archuletta a coverage liability, too many coverage duties are falling to Taylor. People who like to criticize him say, "Look what Burress and Toomer did to Taylor". Well Taylor should not be covering #1 and #2 receivers one on one. The Redskins defensive scheme is in complete disarray right now. Maybe it is because Springs is out, Clark & Stoudtmire are gone, Prieleau is on the shelf etc. But this defense is a shell of it's former self ('05, '04).[/QUOTE]

I think 21 CAN cover almost any WR in the league. IF he was playing straight coverage. His problem is that he has to play coverage and run. Against any decent 1 or even 2 in this league heaping the responsibility on one guy makes it pretty easy to pop open. If he lined up at CB he'd be a pretty decent corner. But he can't do both well at the same time. It isn't physically possible to protect against the run while staying in coverage against a guy like Burress.

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

sean taylor stripped barber who hasn't fumbled in like 2 years, i love that about him

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

[quote=FRPLG;227213]I think 21 CAN cover almost any WR in the league. IF he was playing straight coverage. His problem is that he has to play coverage and run. Against any decent 1 or even 2 in this league heaping the responsibility on one guy makes it pretty easy to pop open. If he lined up at CB he'd be a pretty decent corner. But he can't do both well at the same time. It isn't physically possible to protect against the run while staying in coverage against a guy like Burress.[/quote]


I also think he just had a bad game on Sunday when he wasn't able to cover anybody.

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

[QUOTE=hesscl34;227211]Taylor is picking up slack.. trying to make things happen.. so he isn't always consistent... Seems to be a "team" problem, not a Taylor problem. That man is a beast.. and a God in my book.[/QUOTE]

I think this is right. Taylor seems to be basically trying to contribute everywhere on D and is simply spread thin. If he could be free to roam like he was the last two years he'd be cracking skulls and picking passes all over. Now he is basically the fall back at every position in the secondary and supports all the LBs. The guy is a beast simpyl because he hasn't really looked too crappy in doing it. Imagine what our D would be without him. Jeez..scary to think about.

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

Williams is without a doubt one of the most overrated players in the game, right up there with Vick.

Taylor is a more complete package than Williams, and I'm not just being a homer.

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

[QUOTE=Grim21Reaper;227215]I also think he just had a bad game on Sunday when he wasn't able to cover anybody.[/QUOTE]

I can't even remember a play this year where Taylor just broke into coverage. Every play where he seemed to get "beat" it was because he had to fill the middle zone for Run D and then drop into coverage. Not to say he hasn't made in positioning mistakes or anything but he does have a huge amount of responsibility out there and it has to be played perfect for it to work. You don't see any other Safeties doing what he does I don't think.

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

Give Sean Taylor the front seven playing in front of Roy Williams and he would be the best safety in the league, by a wide margin.

I like Roy as a run stopper, but he has nowhere near the range that Taylor has patrolling deep. He made two bad plays against Philly that resulted in 40+ yard gains, one of which he let Eagles TE Smith run right past him while spying the backfield. The other was on the flea flicker TD, where he looked to have an angle to make a play on the ball but somehow came up short.

Taylor has admittedly been victimized a few times this season, but that has been mostly on plays where the coverage dictated that he match up 1-on-1 with a WR. Dallas NEVER puts Williams in that situation, because they know that it would be a lost cause.

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;227217]Williams is without a doubt one of the most overrated players in the game, right up there with Vick.

Taylor is a more complete package than Williams, and I'm not just being a homer.[/QUOTE]

100%. I have never understood the Williams fascination. He can hit pretty decent but there are numerous hard hitting safeties. Hell Arch is considered a hard hitting safety who can't cover and we got killed for signing him. Think we would have gotten killed if we had signed Roy WIlliams like that? I highly doubt it. Is Madden behind this? He seems to be the biggest proliferator of over-hype in the league.

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

[quote=FRPLG;227216]I think this is right. Taylor seems to be basically trying to contribute everywhere on D and is simply spread thin. If he could be free to roam like he was the last two years he'd be cracking skulls and picking passes all over. Now he is basically the fall back at every position in the secondary and supports all the LBs. The guy is a beast simpyl because he hasn't really looked too crappy in doing it. Imagine what our D would be without him. Jeez..scary to think about.[/quote]

Yay!! I'm right!!! :)

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;227217]Williams is without a doubt one of the most overrated players in the game, right up there with Vick.

Taylor is a more complete package than Williams, and I'm not just being a homer.[/quote]

I did say at the very beginning that this wasn't a comparision. I am sure that Dallas fans would say the exact opposite thing.

The reality is, both are giving up plays. I mean against the Gimps, the two deep passes should have been intercepted for the length of time it stayed up in the air. Later that Sunday, Williams should have intercepted the ball when I think Brown scored a TD.

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

I don't think that Taylor is overrated because he's just now building his reputation. Williams has had his, and like was stated as above, he's still living off of it while not performing like it.

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

Also, I think RW is only going to get worse, while Taylor will improve as he learns more about how to play the NFL game. So the upside is all with Taylor, IMO. But both have been beaten this year in coverage, no doubt.

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

Taylor has stripped two players of the ball on the way DOWN from a tackle. his reflexes and presence of mind are astonishing. he just can't do it alone.

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

Taylor is just trying to compensate for all the injuries and players leaving that our secondary has had. IMO, the really overrated one is Archuleta, i've seen him give up at least two big pass plays a game since we've got him, and he hasn't made many positive plays yet. He is nowhere near worth the 31 mil we payed for him.

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

I agree about Archuleta.... he misses A LOT.

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

Taylor isn't over-rated, yet. He needs to get voted for the Pro Bowl year-in and year-out despite his lackluster performance. And any primetime game that he appears in must have 75% dialogue from the commentators dedicated to him.

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

like SouperMeister said, if ST had ware, spears, et al. he'd be in the HOF already ;)

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

Ware is alright, but Spears hasn't done anything yet.

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

I don't know much about Roy Williams as far as a player. From what I have seen he's like a linebacker playing safety. He's great vs the run, liability vs the pass.

Taylors biggest problem is biting on play fakes. That, and often times if he sees the play breaking down on one side he tries to get to the ball, gets there a step late, and the play looks like it's on him when it may not be.

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

As far as Ken Schrader in the #21 Air Force car goes, not over-rated, just over the hill.

[IMG]http://i.cnn.net/nascar/.element/img/1.1/sect/drivers/cup/kschrade00/car.jpg[/IMG]

Jeff Burton and the RCR Cingular #31 team are an entirely different story. Highly under-rated. Not only is Jeff leading the Chase, he'll bring home the hardware.

[IMG]http://www.rcrracing.com/images/photogallery/11555136000622hh6061(PV).jpg[/IMG]
Jeff Burton and the RCR Cingular #31 team are an entirely different story. Highly under-rated. Not only is Jeff leading the chase, he'll bring home the hardware.

Oh yeah, and as far as Joe Gibbs Racing goes, the driver of the #20 is a big fat cry baby. #11, Denny Hamlin on the other hand is going to be a super star. Unlike Stewart, a real class act.

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

I dont think you can compare those two players. Sean is better now than Williams was at this time in his career. Williams does not posess the cover skills Sean has. He doesn't have the speed, and doesn't cover near the amount of ground Sean can. In my eyes, Taylor is top 2 or 3 safeties in the league. Williams is on the way down and goes to probowls by his name only.

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

[quote=RiggoRules;227287]As far as Ken Schrader in the #21 Air Force car goes, not over-rated, just over the hill.

[IMG]http://i.cnn.net/nascar/.element/img/1.1/sect/drivers/cup/kschrade00/car.jpg[/IMG]

Jeff Burton and the RCR Cingular #31 team are an entirely different story. Highly under-rated. Not only is Jeff leading the Chase, he'll bring home the hardware.

[IMG]http://www.rcrracing.com/images/photogallery/11555136000622hh6061%28PV%29.jpg[/IMG]
Jeff Burton and the RCR Cingular #31 team are an entirely different story. Highly under-rated. Not only is Jeff leading the chase, he'll bring home the hardware.

Oh yeah, and as far as Joe Gibbs Racing goes, the driver of the #20 is a big fat cry baby. #11, Denny Hamlin on the other hand is going to be a super star. Unlike Stewart, a real class act.[/quote]
:doh:

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

I personally would be excited to have 21 and 31 safety positions for the Redskins. We would definetly have the most feared safety combo in the NFL.

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

Yeah, as far as overrating goes (and I know you're not comparing them...) but I think Roy is a little more overrated. Taylor deserved a Pro-bowl last year and your boy went with worse stats...

Taylor scored 2 TDs in back-to back do or die games agianst the eagles and the bucs that let us travel as far as we did in the post-season last year.... And he gets little recognition anywhere, except for the butt of conduct jokes or on Jacked-Up....

Williams separates Emmit Smiths shoulder and all of a sudden he's a god to dallas fans?

If Riggo was still playing and played for the 9ers and Taylor broke his arm, I'd personally kick taylor in the nuts...

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

[quote=REDSKIN1;227303]I personally would be excited to have 21 and 31 safety positions for the Redskins. We would definetly have the most feared safety combo in the NFL.[/quote]

You are out of your mind. First of all, Roy basically signed a contract for life with the boys. Second, we tried bringing Cowboys in to right the ship, it was called the Norv Turner era.

That is a ridiculous idea.

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

roy williams is definitely overrated. he gets burned soooo much. as for sean taylor, he has gotten worse from his rookie year, and last year i think. he is really struggling this year in coverage

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

wow, I don't know where to start
1. Fuck the Cowboys
2. WAR TONY STEWART
3. Sean Taylor never sacrifices a play for a big hit, he makes the play with the big hit
4. The reason Taylor does not get the credit he deserves is due exclusively to thuggery i.e. assault, spitting, friendly fire
5. I have watched recievers and backs time and again make cuts specifically to avoid Taylor, all offenses account for him. In the words of Brandon Lloyd, "I'm glad that guy's on my team"

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

21 = BONEBREAKER (not overrated)
31 = HORSECOLLARS (overrated)

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

Taylor may not make many plays in coverage, but how many times a game do you see recievers not make catches because he is barrelling towards them, and he may not pick the ball much, but how often do you see him strip the ball. He is a playmaker and a threat for any reciever when he is free to go up and make a hit on them, but when he doesn't have help from his corners he is taken out of his element and forced to play back in coverage, which he does with some success, but what we want to see from him are those big hits. It makes any team player think twice before catching a ball when his career may be on the line.

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

Let's put it this way. If Taylor had the same things said about him as Williams does now, yes, I'd say Taylor was over-rated. He has a reputation as a hard hitter and a playmaker. There's nothing over-rated about that. Williams reputation as not being able to cover is also catching up to him, so he's not as over-rated as he once used to be.

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

Sean Taylor is still making plays every game. He's stripped the ball what three times this year?

He's not superman and can't compensate for our lack of CB/Saftey depth, but he's an effin manimal.

It's ok to be a skeptic, but lets not lose our minds here folks.

Re: Are 21 and 31 over-rated?
 

Sean Taylor is having a hell of a year this year. It's getting lost in all the bad secondary comments, but any time hes around the ball, we get a play. In that vain, Roy Williams is doing the same for Dallas this year. Neither are great cover safeties, and Roy is espicially horrid.