Treasonous....
 

I've read many posts on this site and I feel ashamed. "So called fans" calling for Mr. Gibbs to resign, and a cestpool of other garbage along with it. I do not know how many times I have to hit this point home. However, I guess I have to do it again. We are a family. If you do not like that lifelong, albeit glorious postion, than go elsewhere. The Washington Redskins thrive on naysay. Hail to the Redskins. Win or .....we are still the USA's team.

The one thing that the REDSKINS have above all else, WE have George Washington's name. We play in Maryland, but represent the entire Union. Redskins are the soul of the United States of America. Hail to the Chiefs....
Hail
28 7 44 66 65 71 72 58.....

hail!

Re: Treasonous....
 

Gee what a great discussion board this would be if we all took the approach you're taking. Criticizing Gibbs is not a bad thing, it spurs discussion. While calling for him to resign is completely absurd, he's not above scrutiny from fans. Facts are he's 18-20 since he came back to the 'Skins - we wouldn't be fans if we didn't have a passionate response to that disappointing record.

With your attitude, you're more of a cheerleader than you are a fan.

Re: Treasonous....
 

[quote=PhxRedSkin;231879]I've read many posts on this site and I feel ashamed. "So called fans" calling for Mr. Gibbs to resign, and a cestpool of other garbage along with it. I do not know how many times I have to hit this point home. However, I guess I have to do it again. We are a family. If you do not like that lifelong, albeit glorious postion, than go elsewhere. The Washington Redskins thrive on naysay. Hail to the Redskins. Win or .....we are still the USA's team.

The one thing that the REDSKINS have above all else, WE have George Washington's name. We play in Maryland, but represent the entire Union. Redskins are the soul of the United States of America. Hail to the Chiefs....
Hail
28 7 44 66 65 71 72 58.....

hail![/quote]


Hey fellow WPer. I understand that you're pouring out your heart here and all, and that you are upset by other people's opinions, and alot of that is perfectly understandable. However, you're just one of many new threads saying the exact same thing, and this probably should've been a post in one of those...

As a matter of fact, I believe the whole family/fan concept went for a nice discussion the other day.... (I searched briefly but could not find it... sorry)

I have to say however, that although it seems like the right thing to do, having the majority of your recent posts bashing other skins fans for bashing the team, creates more of a problem and invites the bashers to take up more space confronting your attack.... so therefore you create what you hate...

Not only that, but you tend to alienate others inadvertantly... those of us who don't like to lose and question things in discussions with others whose opinions differ from our own in an attempt to gain insight.

For what its worth, my opinion is that Im far more tired of seeing fans attack other fans than fans venting out of frustration from losing.

Re: Treasonous....
 

[quote=Schneed10;231882]Gee what a great discussion board this would be if we all took the approach you're taking. Criticizing Gibbs is not a bad thing, it spurs discussion. While calling for him to resign is completely absurd, he's not above scrutiny from fans. Facts are he's 18-20 since he came back to the 'Skins - we wouldn't be fans if we didn't have a passionate response to that disappointing record.

With your attitude, you're more of a cheerleader than you are a fan.[/quote]

Criticizing Gibbs distracts from the real problem which is the players and their mind blowing under-achievement. I understand that sometimes distractions are quite necessary (as are cheerleaders), but if anyone really believes that Gibbs is the problem, then they need to take a little break.

Like everyone else, I grow weary of his stock answers at press conferences, his reluctance to call players out, and his generally dispassionate outward mask. But that is a small price to pay for the ability I believe he has to bring out the best in his guys.

The season is NOT OVER. I'm not saying they will be World's Champions but they will get better. I have a very good feeling about tomorrow's game. So, let's keep our heads up, we're going to start making some plays here in a minute.

Re: Treasonous....
 

[quote]Criticizing Gibbs distracts from the real problem which is the players and their mind blowing under-achievement.[/quote]

Isn't it the coaches job to have players live up to their potential? Teach them the fundamentals, teach them the scheme, keep them sharp? Is Gibbs [b]the[/b] problem? No. Could he be part of it. Sure.

In my opinion, this board would be hanging Gibbs up by his feet right now if not for what he had done in the 80s. He's still living a lot off of reputation. I think he's an excellent motivator, partially because of who he is, partially because he's in the HOF and he's won so much in the past. But to blindly just follow him and say he's infallable is a mistake.

Re: Treasonous....
 

[quote=Daseal;231890].

In my opinion, this board would be hanging Gibbs up by his feet right now if not for what he had done in the 80s. He's still living a lot off of reputation. I think he's an excellent motivator, partially because of who he is, partially because he's in the HOF and he's won so much in the past. But to blindly just follow him and say he's infallable is a mistake.[/quote]
this is a very valid point, anyone know what spurrier or schottenheimers records were when they were here? but, with 3 super bowl victories, i think coach Gibbs has earned the right for a semi free pass in attempting to resurrect the skins

Re: Treasonous....
 

All one needs to do is listen to his PC's and PG comments following each game we loose. He is always mindful to include himself in the teams struggles to find consistency. "We're All In This Together" is one of his favorites intended to insure everyone interested that he considers himself to be a part of the problem as well.

I'm afraid if this team does not consider making some changes in the way they do business, we're going to gradually see more negatives geared towards our beloved coach. Our biggest problems develop from where he wants to go, the FO, and with a FO of Gibbs, Vinny and Danny Boy all lovers of the free agency route to success, buyers beware of the outcome.

Re: Treasonous....
 

Nothing wrong with a little cheerleading sometimes. Especially during times like these.

Re: Treasonous....
 

Look, throwing the word "treasonous" out is just a tad bit over the top.

Treason is powerful word. It is a capital crime.

Who is more loyal, the fan who sticks his head in the sand or the fan who observes the reality and demands real change?

Phx, I haven't seen any posts on this board calling for Gibbs head, but even if they exist, those fans are being far more loyal than you are (I think Gibbs should stick around, I just want Brunnell deported to Canada).

Re: Treasonous....
 

I'm really getting tired of reading these debates over who is the better fan, or how someone should follow their favorite team.

I say do whatever works for you.

There's a very wide range of fans ranging from the enternally optimistic to the eternally pessimistic. There will always be disagreements, but enough with this stupid calling people out for the type of fan they are.

There's no right or wrong way to be a fan.

Re: Treasonous....
 

[quote=PhxRedSkin;231879]
28 7 44 66 65 71 72 58.....

[/quote]

Are those the freaky numbers from LOST?

Re: Treasonous....
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;231903]I'm really getting tired of reading these debates over who is the better fan, or how someone should follow their favorite team.

I say do whatever works for you.

There's a very wide range of fans ranging from the enternally optimistic to the eternally pessimistic. There will always be disagreements, but enough with this stupid calling people out for the type of fan they are.

There's no right or wrong way to be a fan.[/QUOTE]

Yeah exactly. I tried to make this point in another thread, and I'm not sure how succesful I was. But how you relate to the Skins is probably a microcosm of how you relate to a lot of things. Not everyone is walking around smiling all day saying I feel great. Some people are. But we all sign on here and debate the team and bring different perspectives to the discussion. I think unless someone starts a thread about becoming a bears fan or something, we should give them the benefit of the doubt about being a true Skins fan.

Re: Treasonous....
 

You have to remember, we are not just regular fans. We are the greatest fans in the NFL! We are Redskins fans! We know the media is against us and we thrive on that. We, as loyal fans, aren't calling for the head of Coach Gibbs, we just want some kind of positive change that's all. No one is doubting our HOF Coach, second guessing maybe. But not doubting. Fact is, we are just spoiled by the success that Coach Gibbs brought to D.C. in his first stint and we're longing for those glory days of old! HAIL from MCUSA!

Re: Treasonous....
 

Hey, I have gone overboard criticizing Joe Gibbs myself, but I have got to tell you, I think you are going overboard with the Patriot thing. All my life I have wondered why the Redskins are not America's favorite. But one thing is for sure they are'nt. They have great fan support, but so do many other teams. I support Mattyk72's view of a fan.

Re: Treasonous....
 

[quote=Daryl Elite;231904]Are those the freaky numbers from LOST?[/quote]

You are right. I think Vinnie has stopped pushing the button.

Re: Treasonous....
 

[QUOTE=chris36;231912]Hey, I have gone overboard criticizing Joe Gibbs myself, but I have got to tell you, I think you are going overboard with the Patriot thing. All my life I have wondered why the Redskins are not America's favorite. But one thing is for sure they are'nt. They have great fan support, but so do many other teams. I support Mattyk72's view of a fan.[/QUOTE]

Seriously, have you guys noticed how much people hate the Skins? I don't mean Pasta or Peter King either, I mean just your average NFL fan. I guess the owner and our spending habits are part of it but I mean, come on, it's not like we've won anything for 15 years. I don't understand that.

Re: Treasonous....
 

The way the fans act has a real impact on the psyche of the players. If the fans constantly boo the quarterback, for example, if he is being trammelled in the press, etc., it will make it very difficult to play up to his ability. If the fans want to help the team, harsh criticism is not the way to do it in my view.

If you call fans "treasonous" for all their criticism, then to me it only enflames people and divides the fans and makes people irritated and defensive. So that isn't a good thing to do, nor is it accurate, because we are talking about a football team here for one thing.

"Patience is the only strength a man needs," someone said. I think that Joe Gibbs and the coaching staff looked at the NFL after last season and said, we can't win a Super Bowl unless we upgrade the offense. We have to go with a 21st century, top flight offense strategy if we are going to win.

Yet, we can't change over in one season, because it is too much to assimilate. Furthermore, we need to upgrade our offensive personnel. Yet, if we do that, we won't be able to have the depth we want in other areas.

So I think that the Redskins brain trust said we will shoot for a Super Bowl in 2007, and hope that things come together as fast as possible to have another playoff season in 2006.

We made a mistake in giving up on Walt Harris in my view. Clearly he is tearing it up in San Francisco and we could really have used his presence back there. The Archuleta decision is far from clear in my view, because we also have a lot of people trying to learn a new and complicated defense, including Archuleta, and the injuries back there have been a problem.

Anyway, I believe we are on the right track, and that success is best measured in the long view and whether what we are doing is going to make us better in the long view or whether we are going downhill. Clearly to me we are not going downhill, but just have to have some time to develop. In 2007 I believe we will be a juggernaut. And this season will have some great moments in store yet.

Re: Treasonous....
 

Letting Walt Harris go was a mistake?

Wow, who would have ever thought we would have heard those words?

We practically rode him outta town a year ago. Perhaps there's a lesson to be learned there.

Re: Treasonous....
 

I swear to god, if I hear "Walt Harris" or "Jason Campbell" one more time I am gonna shoot myself.

Re: Treasonous....
 

[quote=hooskins;231919]I swear to god, if I hear "Walt Harris" or "Jason Campbell" one more time I am gonna shoot myself.[/quote]




walt harris





jason campbell




:)

Re: Treasonous....
 

I think Oakland Red needs a timeout for bringing up Walt Harris. I'm not even going there.

As to the original post, it's a game, dude. An extremely entertaining game that a lot of people (myself included) are passionate about, but still a game.

Re: Treasonous....
 

I think it's a little over the top to call pessimistic fans treasonous if they are overally critical over the coach. Daseal is right...it is the coaches' responsiblity to have their players ready to play ball.....but the coaches, even the HOF coaches can only do so much. The players have to also take initative as well.

With that said...calling for Joe Gibbs' head is flat out stupid. Being critical of how he's done so far is understandable. After all, alot of us fans who have had the pleasure of watching the glory years have pumped Gibbs up and given the younger fans an expectation that Gibbs is the savior of this team.

You also have to keep in mind...Gibbs had some great players on his 80's teams...which helps quite a bit. Alot of players stayed together alot longer than what players do nowadays, and so the continuity was there.

But the long and short of it is this: I DO think Joe Gibbs gives our team the best chance at being rebuilt into the powerhouse it once was. I DON'T think changing coaches and tearing down the team is the answer. For Pete's sake...that's what we have been doing for the past decade...you see how that's worked out!

Re: Treasonous....
 

[quote=Mattyk72;231918]Letting Walt Harris go was a mistake?

Wow, who would have ever thought we would have heard those words?

We practically rode him outta town a year ago. Perhaps there's a lesson to be learned there.[/quote]

[url=http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/10/09/SPG6BLLF1H1.DTL&hw=walt+harris&sn=004&sc=511]Harris leads 49ers' defensive attack with three interceptions[/url]

[SIZE=2]It didn't happen in college, nor in high school, nor in any of [B]Walt[/B] [B]Harris[/B]' 150 previous NFL games. Instead, Sunday marked the first-ever three-interception game for the 49ers' cornerback.

[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]In all, it wasn't a bad week for [B]Harris[/B]. The 11-year veteran was named a defensive captain along with defensive lineman Bryant Young earlier in the week, and then followed it with a career game in a 34-20 win over the Raiders that was spearheaded by a spirited defensive effort.

[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Through five games, [B]Harris[/B] easily is the 49ers' defensive MVP with three interceptions, a sack, two forced fumbles, a fumble recovery and eight passes defended.

[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Not bad for a guy who was released from the Redskins on March 10. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]"I feel very comfortable playing with this organization and this defense," said [B]Harris[/B], who reached a deal with the 49ers while he was on a Mexican cruise with his wife, Trina.

[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][B]Harris[/B] says that the 49ers allow him to do what he does best and don't bog him down with lots of instruction on technique.

[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][B]Harris[/B] said he feels revived, and never has he felt like such a leader. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]"They told me that would be part of my role when I got here," [B]Harris[/B] said. "I like the pressure."

[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][B]Harris[/B]' first two interceptions were gifts from Raiders quarterback Andrew Walter, who threw the ball right to [B]Harris[/B]. On [B]Harris[/B]' last interception, he baited third-string quarterback Marques Tuiasosopo into throwing a little jump pass, which was intended for Randy Moss. [B]Harris[/B] got in front of Moss and out-jumped him for the ball.

[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Increasingly, [B]Harris[/B] is making the Redskins look foolish. Not only did they release [B]Harris[/B], who apparently has a lot left, they also traded for defensive back Mike Rumph, a first-round bust for the 49ers. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Rumph was dealt for wide receiver Taylor Jacobs on Aug. 14. So far, Rumph has made eight tackles and hasn't gotten his hands on the ball as a backup corner for the Redskins.

[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][B]Harris[/B] has played so well, his fellow defensive backs feel no shame in expressing their envy.

[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]"He's got too many (picks)," safety Mike Adams said. "He could have spread that out. You know what I'm saying?"

[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]"At least give me a chance to get one," safety Mike Roman volunteered. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]The three interceptions -- matching his total of the past three years -- could have been a result of an increased emphasis on third-down defense during practice. The 49ers, who didn't have an interception this season before Sunday, devoted more practice time to third down after being ranked 29th in third-down efficiency following the 41-0 debacle the previous Sunday in Kansas City.

[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]"Our focus this whole week was do not let your guy catch the ball," rookie linebacker Manny Lawson said.

[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Lawson tipped a Walter pass on 3rd-and-8 at the beginning of the fourth quarter that was intercepted by safety Chad Williams. The 49ers also limited Oakland to three first downs in nine third-down opportunities.

[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][B]Harris[/B] and the 49ers benefited from a fine game plan. Walter, a second-year player making his second career starts, appeared flummoxed by the 49ers' constantly shifting defense on passing downs.

[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Typically, the 49ers send out six defensive backs on passing downs and they all seem to take turns running into gaps and backing off. It forced Walter to call a timeout on 3rd-and-4 in the first quarter.

[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]After that, Walter went on a quick count on third downs, which didn't allow him to audible to different plays. [/SIZE]

Re: Treasonous....
 

[quote=Oakland Red;231930][URL="http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/10/09/SPG6BLLF1H1.DTL&hw=walt+harris&sn=004&sc=511"]Harris leads 49ers' defensive attack with three interceptions[/URL]

[SIZE=2]It didn't happen in college, nor in high school, nor in any of [B]Walt[/B] [B]Harris[/B]' 150 previous NFL games. Instead, Sunday marked the first-ever three-interception game for the 49ers' cornerback.

[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]In all, it wasn't a bad week for [B]Harris[/B]. The 11-year veteran was named a defensive captain along with defensive lineman Bryant Young earlier in the week, and then followed it with a career game in a 34-20 win over the Raiders that was spearheaded by a spirited defensive effort.

[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Through five games, [B]Harris[/B] easily is the 49ers' defensive MVP with three interceptions, a sack, two forced fumbles, a fumble recovery and eight passes defended.

[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Not bad for a guy who was released from the Redskins on March 10. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]"I feel very comfortable playing with this organization and this defense," said [B]Harris[/B], who reached a deal with the 49ers while he was on a Mexican cruise with his wife, Trina.

[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][B]Harris[/B] says that the 49ers allow him to do what he does best and don't bog him down with lots of instruction on technique.

[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][B]Harris[/B] said he feels revived, and never has he felt like such a leader. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]"They told me that would be part of my role when I got here," [B]Harris[/B] said. "I like the pressure."

[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][B]Harris[/B]' first two interceptions were gifts from Raiders quarterback Andrew Walter, who threw the ball right to [B]Harris[/B]. On [B]Harris[/B]' last interception, he baited third-string quarterback Marques Tuiasosopo into throwing a little jump pass, which was intended for Randy Moss. [B]Harris[/B] got in front of Moss and out-jumped him for the ball.

[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Increasingly, [B]Harris[/B] is making the Redskins look foolish. Not only did they release [B]Harris[/B], who apparently has a lot left, they also traded for defensive back Mike Rumph, a first-round bust for the 49ers. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Rumph was dealt for wide receiver Taylor Jacobs on Aug. 14. So far, Rumph has made eight tackles and hasn't gotten his hands on the ball as a backup corner for the Redskins.

[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][B]Harris[/B] has played so well, his fellow defensive backs feel no shame in expressing their envy.

[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]"He's got too many (picks)," safety Mike Adams said. "He could have spread that out. You know what I'm saying?"

[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]"At least give me a chance to get one," safety Mike Roman volunteered. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]The three interceptions -- matching his total of the past three years -- could have been a result of an increased emphasis on third-down defense during practice. The 49ers, who didn't have an interception this season before Sunday, devoted more practice time to third down after being ranked 29th in third-down efficiency following the 41-0 debacle the previous Sunday in Kansas City.

[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]"Our focus this whole week was do not let your guy catch the ball," rookie linebacker Manny Lawson said.

[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Lawson tipped a Walter pass on 3rd-and-8 at the beginning of the fourth quarter that was intercepted by safety Chad Williams. The 49ers also limited Oakland to three first downs in nine third-down opportunities.

[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][B]Harris[/B] and the 49ers benefited from a fine game plan. Walter, a second-year player making his second career starts, appeared flummoxed by the 49ers' constantly shifting defense on passing downs.

[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Typically, the 49ers send out six defensive backs on passing downs and they all seem to take turns running into gaps and backing off. It forced Walter to call a timeout on 3rd-and-4 in the first quarter.

[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]After that, Walter went on a quick count on third downs, which didn't allow him to audible to different plays. [/SIZE][/quote]

:bdh::bdh::bdh::bdh::bdh::bdh:

:stop::stop::stop::stop::stop::stop::stop::stop::stop:

Re: Treasonous....
 

[quote=Oakland Red;231930][URL="http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/10/09/SPG6BLLF1H1.DTL&hw=walt+harris&sn=004&sc=511"]Harris leads 49ers' defensive attack with three interceptions[/URL]

[SIZE=2]It didn't happen in college, nor in high school, nor in any of [B]Walt[/B] [B]Harris[/B]' 150 previous NFL games. Instead, Sunday marked the first-ever three-interception game for the 49ers' cornerback.

[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]In all, it wasn't a bad week for [B]Harris[/B]. The 11-year veteran was named a defensive captain along with defensive lineman Bryant Young earlier in the week, and then followed it with a career game in a 34-20 win over the Raiders that was spearheaded by a spirited defensive effort.

[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Through five games, [B]Harris[/B] easily is the 49ers' defensive MVP with three interceptions, a sack, two forced fumbles, a fumble recovery and eight passes defended.

[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Not bad for a guy who was released from the Redskins on March 10. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]"I feel very comfortable playing with this organization and this defense," said [B]Harris[/B], who reached a deal with the 49ers while he was on a Mexican cruise with his wife, Trina.

[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][B]Harris[/B] says that the 49ers allow him to do what he does best and don't bog him down with lots of instruction on technique.

[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][B]Harris[/B] said he feels revived, and never has he felt like such a leader. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]"They told me that would be part of my role when I got here," [B]Harris[/B] said. "I like the pressure."

[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][B]Harris[/B]' first two interceptions were gifts from Raiders quarterback Andrew Walter, who threw the ball right to [B]Harris[/B]. On [B]Harris[/B]' last interception, he baited third-string quarterback Marques Tuiasosopo into throwing a little jump pass, which was intended for Randy Moss. [B]Harris[/B] got in front of Moss and out-jumped him for the ball.

[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Increasingly, [B]Harris[/B] is making the Redskins look foolish. Not only did they release [B]Harris[/B], who apparently has a lot left, they also traded for defensive back Mike Rumph, a first-round bust for the 49ers. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Rumph was dealt for wide receiver Taylor Jacobs on Aug. 14. So far, Rumph has made eight tackles and hasn't gotten his hands on the ball as a backup corner for the Redskins.

[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][B]Harris[/B] has played so well, his fellow defensive backs feel no shame in expressing their envy.

[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]"He's got too many (picks)," safety Mike Adams said. "He could have spread that out. You know what I'm saying?"

[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]"At least give me a chance to get one," safety Mike Roman volunteered. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]The three interceptions -- matching his total of the past three years -- could have been a result of an increased emphasis on third-down defense during practice. The 49ers, who didn't have an interception this season before Sunday, devoted more practice time to third down after being ranked 29th in third-down efficiency following the 41-0 debacle the previous Sunday in Kansas City.

[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]"Our focus this whole week was do not let your guy catch the ball," rookie linebacker Manny Lawson said.

[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Lawson tipped a Walter pass on 3rd-and-8 at the beginning of the fourth quarter that was intercepted by safety Chad Williams. The 49ers also limited Oakland to three first downs in nine third-down opportunities.

[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2][B]Harris[/B] and the 49ers benefited from a fine game plan. Walter, a second-year player making his second career starts, appeared flummoxed by the 49ers' constantly shifting defense on passing downs.

[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Typically, the 49ers send out six defensive backs on passing downs and they all seem to take turns running into gaps and backing off. It forced Walter to call a timeout on 3rd-and-4 in the first quarter.

[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]After that, Walter went on a quick count on third downs, which didn't allow him to audible to different plays. [/SIZE][/quote]U R KEWL

Re: Treasonous....
 

I prefer to judge Gibbs by his own words, he stated that whats in the past is in the past, this is a new beggining and the buck stops with him, if we take him at his word and forget he is a 3 time SB champ then the grade is an F, 3 seasons into his new beggining and we are going backwards not forward, and most of it stems from one move, and that move is Brunell and Gibbs inability to admit that he made a huge mistake and move on. The only credibility Brunell has had in this league over the last 4 or 5 years is Gibbs belief in him, because no one else believed in him. There is a reason he was about to be released by the Jags before they realized Gibbs was conviced he was Dan Marino and preceded to take advantage of that, not to mention Brunells financial rape of our organization. How you go from about to be released to the scrapheap to a 43 million dollar contract confounds me, especially after watching him play for 3 seasons.

Re: Treasonous....
 

i thinks some skins are living in the past with say you cant call for Gibbs job. in my opinion i think he should play out his contract. but if u arent winning and arent making good personnel moves then those are reasons to replaced. if this was spurrier, norv, or marty the crys for there job would be louder. gibbs talks about character guys how about we keep the true skins around here that came up through us aka pierce,smoot,lavar, to me they where done wrong. we pay FA'a big money to come here and never produce. thats why we are hated around the nfl we over pay for players that arent that good. archeltta is the worst safety i seen in a while why not keep ryan clark. randle el is over payed for what he does. loyld hasnt shown me any thing maybe it the qb only time will tell. andre carter cant get any pressure these are the players we signed this year. where are core players we dont have many we sign too many new Fa's to have any. make trade for duckett and doesnt even play what a joke. to me we are the same old skins that were before gibbs got here and to me that is disappointing

Re: Treasonous....
 

I agree 100%! How long do you guys think we will continue to build through FA? I know it's a Gibbs thing, but it obviosly isn't working? HAIL from MCUSA!

Re: Treasonous....
 

damn, not another we are family thread. that whole idea is bogus and has already been beaten to death in your last thread which said pretty much the same thing.

it's okay to disagree... i personally haven't seen these posts about gibbs resigning, but please don't tell me because you saw one guy with a post count of 3 you think it's widespread (like the last time you posted one of these threads).

I have no idea why you think we have washington's name... if so, doesn't seattle also share that? no idea where the soul of the union stuff came from either.

We are what we are, and someone deserves blame for this offseason. the last two were good, but this one failed horribly to address needs that many MANY fans (who are unpaid) knew about since last year. I'm not saying it's all on gibbs, but as the man in charge, some of every loss has to be on him.

Re: Treasonous....
 

We all love joe gibbs,but that dosent mean he above criticizism. At this time his personel decisions and danny's have alot to be upset about. Trading away draft picks like they dont matter,even though all the other winning teams use draft picks to win. Lettting our FA go and in return over paying for other people garbage. Not keeping our own and seeing them preforming for other teams are making alot of us true and loyal fans PO for the way we treat the player who putout for our team. Hail to the skins and we all love Joe GIbbs

Re: Treasonous....
 

Either you are with Gibbs or you are with the terrorists!

Re: Treasonous....
 

[quote=Carnage;231975]Either you are with Gibbs or you are with the terrorists![/quote]

That has the ring of truthiness.

Re: Treasonous....
 

[QUOTE=That Guy;231962]damn, not another we are family thread. that whole idea is bogus and has already been beaten to death in your last thread which said pretty much the same thing.

it's okay to disagree... i personally haven't seen these posts about gibbs resigning, but please don't tell me because you saw one guy with a post count of 3 you think it's widespread (like the last time you posted one of these threads).

I have no idea why you think we have washington's name... if so, doesn't seattle also share that? no idea where the soul of the union stuff came from either.

We are what we are, and someone deserves blame for this offseason. the last two were good, but this one failed horribly to address needs that many MANY fans (who are unpaid) knew about since last year. I'm not saying it's all on gibbs, but as the man in charge, some of every loss has to be on him.[/QUOTE]

Nice post. But just one comment about giving away our all draft picks that other posters here have mentioned. I'll just repeat verbatim what I wrote in another thread. We have more draft picks playing key roles than people seem to want to believe. 3/5th of our starting O-line (Samuels, Dockery, Jansen), our #2 RB (Betts) our KR (Cartwright) our starting safety (Taylor) our starting corner (Rogers). Golston and Montgomery play major minutes at DT (starting out of necessity right now, probably sooner than they should be) I think opening day next year at the latest Jason Campbell and Rocky will be starting. Is Demetric Evans a draft pick? If so, that's another one. Chris Cooley is another one.

Re: Treasonous....
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS;232011]Nice post. But just one comment about giving away our all draft picks that other posters here have mentioned. I'll just repeat verbatim what I wrote in another thread. We have more draft picks playing key roles than people seem to want to believe. 3/5th of our starting O-line (Samuels, Dockery, Jansen), our #2 RB (Betts) our KR (Cartwright) our starting safety (Taylor) our starting corner (Rogers). Golston and Montgomery play major minutes at DT (starting out of necessity right now, probably sooner than they should be) I think opening day next year at the latest Jason Campbell and Rocky will be starting. Is Demetric Evans a draft pick? If so, that's another one. Chris Cooley is another one.[/QUOTE]

Hard to debate that, but... the problem is that championship teams use the draft not just for starters, but for depth, youth, and the future. The way this front office operates leaves the team paper thin on the depth chart.

One only has to point to the record Dan Snyder's organization has amassed since he took over as proof that their personnel department is seriously lacking. If his team had been competitive year after year since 1999, then you'd be exactly right, and no one has any room to complain.

Obviously, that is not the case.

Re: Treasonous....
 

[quote=TAFKAS;232011]Nice post. But just one comment about giving away our all draft picks that other posters here have mentioned. I'll just repeat verbatim what I wrote in another thread. We have more draft picks playing key roles than people seem to want to believe. 3/5th of our starting O-line (Samuels, Dockery, Jansen), our #2 RB (Betts) our KR (Cartwright) our starting safety (Taylor) our starting corner (Rogers). Golston and Montgomery play major minutes at DT (starting out of necessity right now, probably sooner than they should be) I think opening day next year at the latest Jason Campbell and Rocky will be starting. Is Demetric Evans a draft pick? If so, that's another one. Chris Cooley is another one.[/quote]

compare it to jacksonville or philly or indy or.... it's a stark contrast. we drafted only 4/11 starters on O (+sellers as a cheap FA twice, which is just as good). for quality O depth, we drafted betts, and um... taylor jacobs?
campbell hasn't shown one way or the other yet, but i believe he'll be a quality starter. cartwright is a nice guy to have and qualifies since getting anything out of a 7th rounder is hard, and he's done well besides the fumbling.

on defense, those DTs are okay value, but they're not starters, at least not yet, and they're a glaring weakness right now when griffin is MIA. rogers i decent and was drafted (though a bit disappointing right now, at least he's cheap), and taylor is the best draft pick we've made in years. I think evans was a UDFA, but i'm not sure. he's good depth, and finding lemar and pierce as UDFAs was great too. we haven't seen enough of rocky to know much yet. that's 2/11 starters drafted, 2 vet min FAs, and down the road maybe 4/11. that's not good, cause a lot of the other guys are big money, and some of them aren't producing. mistakes don't matter when they're cheap, since they'd be easily fixable.

If you look at cinncy's retention rate of draft picks (which i did in the offseason) its dumb-founding compared to what we do. most well run clubs are the same way.

Re: Treasonous....
 

I mean, philly grabbed a starting quality DT in round 1, then they got guys that'd be GOOD NFL starters at LT and LG in rounds 2 and 3. they were able to let two starting CBs go in the same year, cause they had drafted well and could just pull 2 more starters straight off the bench. right now, they've basically got 7 starters on their DL. that's crazy depth. imagine if we could do that instead of bargain hunting for rejected low grade FAs the week before the season starts.

Re: Treasonous....
 

[quote=That Guy;232017]I mean, philly grabbed a starting quality DT in round 1, then they got guys that'd be GOOD NFL starters at LT and LG in rounds 2 and 3. they were able to let two starting CBs go in the same year, cause they had drafted well and could just pull 2 more starters straight off the bench. right now, they've basically got 7 starters on their DL. that's crazy depth. imagine if we could do that instead of bargain hunting for rejected low grade FAs the week before the season starts.[/quote]
well thats what happens when you trade away your whole draft every year

Re: Treasonous....
 

i just wish we wouldve kept ryan clark

Re: Treasonous....
 

[QUOTE=That Guy;232016]compare it to jacksonville or philly or indy or.... it's a stark contrast. we drafted only 4/11 starters on O (+sellers as a cheap FA twice, which is just as good). for quality O depth, we drafted betts, and um... taylor jacobs?
campbell hasn't shown one way or the other yet, but i believe he'll be a quality starter. cartwright is a nice guy to have and qualifies since getting anything out of a 7th rounder is hard, and he's done well besides the fumbling.

on defense, those DTs are okay value, but they're not starters, at least not yet, and they're a glaring weakness right now when griffin is MIA. rogers i decent and was drafted (though a bit disappointing right now, at least he's cheap), and taylor is the best draft pick we've made in years. I think evans was a UDFA, but i'm not sure. he's good depth, and finding lemar and pierce as UDFAs was great too. we haven't seen enough of rocky to know much yet. that's 2/11 starters drafted, 2 vet min FAs, and down the road maybe 4/11. that's not good, cause a lot of the other guys are big money, and some of them aren't producing. mistakes don't matter when they're cheap, since they'd be easily fixable.

If you look at cinncy's retention rate of draft picks (which i did in the offseason) its dumb-founding compared to what we do. most well run clubs are the same way.[/QUOTE]

What's ironic is that neither Philly nor Cincy has a general manager. Not sure what the front office structure is in Jacksonville off the top of my head

Re: Treasonous....
 

[quote=TAFKAS;232729]What's ironic is that neither Philly nor Cincy has a general manager. Not sure what the front office structure is in Jacksonville off the top of my head[/quote]

yeah, but whoever's in charge isn't clueless. cinny only had one scout for a long time, and i think marvin is good at talent eval (their character/interview/crime screening leaves something to be desired though).