QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

vote and discuss

Which area is the biggest problem right now?

Brunell or the defense?

If you could fix one but not the other, which one would result in the greatest overall improvement?

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

defense is always a huge concern, good defense could jump start brunell, good qb might just delay the inevitable, giving up points. I feel like our D is unable to keep a lead, no matter how big it is.

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

I can't believe I'm saying this, but defense IS the bigger problem..."right now". Once Rogers gets back and we finally have both starting corners healthy again, we will see that defense we briefly saw against the Bengals.

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

defently defense, if you could stop other teams brunnel could win the game, or secure a lead he can't get in a touchdown frenzy he doesn't has it anymore.

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

defense "right now" but at full strength, it's clearly QB.

put out campbell, and if he's just as terrible, then at least we'll know. but maybe, just maybe, there'll be some promise there.

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

The defense is obviously a huge problem right now but I still voted for the QB. The offense can barely substain a drive, especially in the second half when the opposing team adjusts to the short passes. These short drives give our defense little time to rest and regroup and they give the other team a shorter field to work with.
For whatever reason, our screens and dumpoff passes worked well last year and the D was able to stay off the field for longer periods of time. This teams seem to know that we can't throw deep so they stack the box and they keep the dumpoffs behind the first down markers.
I still feel that if we had a QB who could stretch a defense for the entire game things would be different.

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

I'd say it's gotta be the D. We can't stop anyone right now. I'm still trying to figure out how Travis Henry nearly ran for a buck eighty on us.

If the D was their usual top 10 self, I think we could be at least 4-3 right now and right in the thick of things.

As it stands right now, even with a change at QB it's not going to matter much as long as we're giving up yardage by the mile. Even if we had someone like Peyton Manning, he would have to win every game in a shootout because right now the D can't be counted on at all.

The D is now ranked near the bottom of the league, it's sad to see really.

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

I say Brunell because, even when the defense was letting us down in games with the Titans and Colts, Brunell disappeared in the second half. he led us to nothing, even being outplayed in the fourth quarter by a rookie two weeks ago. Brunell is not doing his job of making plays that could win us games.

Of course, the defense is pitiful this year. Please relieve Gregg Williams of his job ASAP.

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;233010]If the D was their usual top 10 self, I think we could be at least 4-3 right now and right in the thick of things.
[/QUOTE]

I agree with you about that. I guess it's just another wasted offseason where the FO didn't address the important problems.

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

defense.

unlike the myriad problems with them, QB is one position we can actually DO something about, we just aren't.

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

400 yards a week!

What else needs to be said!

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

[QUOTE=Twilbert07;233012]I say Brunell because, even when the defense was letting us down in games with the Titans and Colts, Brunell disappeared in the second half. he led us to nothing, even being outplayed in the fourth quarter by a rookie two weeks ago. Brunell is not doing his job of making plays that could win us games.

Of course, the defense is pitiful this year. Please relieve Gregg Williams of his job ASAP.[/QUOTE]

Tbert, i saw your post about getting rid of Williams in another thread, i totally disagree. i don't know how you forget the last couple years here, some of the best defense in franchise history.

getting rid of him would be a HUGE mistake, injuries can happen to anybody. maybe someone else should pick the personnel (if it was indeed him who picked AA and AC) but i'd be honored if Williams took the reigns of the Redskins after Gibbs.

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

Defense is the bigger problem. Brunell is playing the way he played last year, ultra conservative, high completion percentage, low turnover rate, low yards per attempt.

He continues to throw the ball away rather than force things. This strategy works OK when you have a great defense (10-6 last year). It works terribly when you hand the ball to the other team and allow them to march downfield for a TD.

With a better defense we would have beaten both Minnesota and Tennessee, both games were lost on the last drive. Stop Travis Henry, contain Troy Williamson, and all of a sudden we're 4-3.

Brunell is still the same QB. Won't turn it over but is conservative to a fault. Give him last year's defense and we probably win 9 or 10 games. But you can't count on a defense to dominate every year, you need a QB who can not only avoid turnovers, but also make plays.

Defense is the bigger problem, but Brunell isn't far behind.

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

Definitely the defense. Mark Brunell is playing decent enough to win a football game if the defense doesn't allow more than say, 15 points. But the defense puts us in this hole everytime.

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

Defense, by FAR is our main problem right now.

2nd is offensive playcalling,then penalties and injuries.

QB is far from our biggest problem, he's doing what is being asked of him. The problem is...he's not being asked to do what we need to do to win.

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

We have to fix both.
Brunell is keeping the defense on the field too long. I'd compare him with Bledsoe in his ability to handle pressure. They need to make the move to see what Campbell can do to prepare for next season.
Aside from the lack of skill players at LB, the Skins issues on D are the result of injuries, especially at DT and CB. They would be solid otherwise. I believe that as our injured players return, for the most part, the D will fix itself.

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

[QUOTE=Buster;233030]2nd is offensive playcalling,then penalties and injuries.

QB is far from our biggest problem, he's doing what is being asked of him. The problem is...he's not being asked to do what we need to do to win.[/QUOTE]

sorry Buster, but those aren't 700 pages of underneath passes to Betts. that's just where Brunell feels comfortable throwing to. even if it means chewing up the clock in the 4th quarter and insuring a loss. his limitations are the main cause of our problems on offense.

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

[quote=Buster;233030]QB is far from our biggest problem, he's doing what is being asked of him. The problem is...he's not being asked to do what we need to do to win.[/quote]

You definitely hit on a question I'd like to pose to the group, because I'm just not sure of the answer. Is it that

A) Saunders is calling plays to attack the deep and middle parts of the field, and Brunell is checking down to be conservative?

or

B) Saunders isn't calling any plays to attack the deep and middle parts of the field?

If it's A, is Brunell checking down because our WRs and Cooley can't get open? Or is he checking down because he doesn't have time to throw? Or is he checking down because he has no confidence in going deep?

And if it's B, is Saunders keeping the routes short because he lacks confidence in the line's ability to protect Brunell?

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;233040]You definitely hit on a question I'd like to pose to the group, because I'm just not sure of the answer. Is it that

A) Saunders is calling plays to attack the deep and middle parts of the field, and Brunell is checking down to be conservative?

or

B) Saunders isn't calling any plays to attack the deep and middle parts of the field?

If it's A, is Brunell checking down because our WRs and Cooley can't get open? Or is he checking down because he doesn't have time to throw? Or is he checking down because he has no confidence in going deep?

And if it's B, is Saunders keeping the routes short because he lacks confidence in the line's ability to protect Brunell?[/QUOTE]

I asked a similar question in another thread. Seems the consensus answer is it's Brunell's fault. Fear, lack of confidence, misalignment of the planets-whatever the case may be it falls on Brunell

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;233040]If it's A, is Brunell checking down because our WRs and Cooley can't get open? Or is he checking down because he doesn't have time to throw? Or is he checking down because he has no confidence in going deep?

And if it's B, is Saunders keeping the routes short because he lacks confidence in the line's ability to protect Brunell?[/QUOTE]

sure. and Pro-Bowler Santana Moss (w/ same o-line as last year btw), Chris Cooley, and much hyped newcomers Lloyd and Randle El are just the most expensive decoys in NFL history.

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

[quote=Schneed10;233040]You definitely hit on a question I'd like to pose to the group, because I'm just not sure of the answer. Is it that

A) Saunders is calling plays to attack the deep and middle parts of the field, and Brunell is checking down to be conservative?

or

B) Saunders isn't calling any plays to attack the deep and middle parts of the field?

If it's A, is Brunell checking down because our WRs and Cooley can't get open? Or is he checking down because he doesn't have time to throw? Or is he checking down because he has no confidence in going deep?

And if it's B, is Saunders keeping the routes short because he lacks confidence in the line's ability to protect Brunell?[/quote]

It's probably a combo of all of the above.

Brunell isn't a gunslinger, and Saunders has dialed things back accordingly.

Bad fit on both ends.

Time for Campbell.

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

The defense is the bigger problem. However, QB is the problem you can do something about. You're not going to replace the defense. You can replace the QB, the guy not putting up points.

Jaws says it every week, "points come from the passing game." Plenty of guys on Sirius believe that this is now a throw to set up the run league. However, I'm sure they'll get slammed as guys who know nothing cause some of them used to be Cowboys or cause they thought the Skins would be last in the division...

I don't know what's wrong with the D. I think they relied on and the other guy at safety to make too many plays over the last few years anyway. The D is banged up, otherwise, I have no idea what their problem is. Sam Huff says he thinks they miss LaVar. I'm not sure about that, but they're not the same as last year, that's for sure.

I think this team is in a lot of trouble and just trotting the same guys out there every week to get the sh!t kicked out of them isn't working. Gibbs says flat out "the problem is we're inconsistent and I don't know how to fix it." I don't know what to say about that...

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;233052]It's probably a combo of all of the above.

Brunell isn't a gunslinger, and Saunders has dialed things back accordingly.

Bad fit on both ends.

Time for Campbell.[/QUOTE]

It's like the question that Bill Simmons posed at the beginning of the season in regards to the decision to keep Brunell here. He said something along the lines of, "is this how Gibbs would handle his NASCAR team? Go out and buy the best car, with the best parts and the best crew but then trust some random slob off the streets to drive it?"

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

if you, as a coach, understand the injuries we have on defense, and that other teams can score on us. then why not try the big plays and gadgets to try and outscore the opponent? this 5 yard dink and dunk even baffles aikman as an announcer

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

brunell's already said bringing in a new offense for a 36 year old QB makes no sense, and saunder's offense isn't suited for brunell. brunell has looked kinda disengaged, maybe he's just not happy with the whole situation (outside of the losing).

either way, we're not playing well enough on D to pull it out, even if the O gets better, so let's get rocky and campbell in there and see how they look.

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

It is definitley the QB, MB cant/won't throw the ball downfield. I think that is why the players are so frustrated, as well as Saunders. Its JGs call to keep brunell in there, when it seems that everyone besides him thinks its a good idea to change QBs and start building for the future. You could read it all over the WRs faces, they are disgusted, I saw quite a few time where WR's and cooley were wide open with thier hands in the air, but suck ass Brunell checks down for a 3 yard completion. We are the joke of the NFL right now.
The Skins are like a boxer (with a broken right hand) that continues to throw the left jab all fight long, never throwing the power shot. Yeah you may score a few points on the score card, but you end up bloodied and beaten and demoralized.

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

Defense is the biggest problem. I don't know the #'s but i would guess our # plays per game is dramatically down from last year at this time. The reason is our defense can't stop anyone.

Qb is a problem but not the biggest. Once we get a good d then we'll need a better qb to get us to the next level.

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

[quote=jdlea;233055]
I don't know what's wrong with the D. I think they relied on and the other guy at safety to make too many plays over the last few years anyway. The D is banged up, otherwise, I have no idea what their problem is. Sam Huff says he thinks they miss LaVar. I'm not sure about that, but they're not the same as last year, that's for sure.[/quote]


when we went 5-0 last year, guess who started every game? lavar. he was liked in the locker room too, even though he was whiny to the media.

but that was a move that had to be made, since it got us out of a terrible contract. that said, holdman isn't a starting NFL linebacker on a good defense.

the chemistry of so many new parts (on defense, most of which were slight downgrades) has got too be a bit of an issue though. It's harder to go out and fight for a bunch of guys you don't care about. Injuries have really hurt too, but it can't JUST be injuries alone that caused that kind of decline. It seems like the new guys are just a bad fit :/.

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

[QUOTE=Stacks42;233074]The Skins are like a boxer (with a broken right hand) that continues to throw the left jab all fight long, never throwing the power shot. Yeah you may score a few points on the score card, but you end up bloodied and beaten and demoralized.[/QUOTE]

good analogy Stacks

cept, this boxer is a southpaw and it's the left hand that's broken.

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

[quote=ArtMonkDrillz;233056]It's like the question that Bill Simmons posed at the beginning of the season in regards to the decision to keep Brunell here. He said something along the lines of, "is this how Gibbs would handle his NASCAR team? Go out and buy the best car, with the best parts and the best crew but then trust some random slob off the streets to drive it?"[/quote]

It's a bad fit compounded by a D that can't stop anyone.

Like I said, if the D was it's usual self, I think we could get by right now with the dink and dunk offense.

With a piss poor D, everything we do on offense right now is under a microscope. The only way we can win games right now is to win 36-30 shootouts and that's just not gonna happen on a regular basis.

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

Defense...not even close. Brunell is not a come form behind Qb and neither would Campbell be one as a rookie. The redskins were a team built on controlling the game on the ground and playing with a lead. This defense is AWFUL and the main problem with the team. The give up a TD on the opening drive every week it seems. AWFUL AWFUL AWFUL!!!!!!

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

If we put in Campbell and open up the offense a bit maybe we'll lose 36-28 instead of 36-22.

But if we put in Campbell and the offense opens up, AND the D somehow comes around, only then will we see a different team.

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

I'm of the opinion the Defense is the biggst problem at this time and the unit that needs the most fixing. Let's face it guys our D line is not very good, plus the guys we count on the most are older, or always injured. Regardless of how good a player, if he can't be counted on to be there for you, he's not a lot of help. Would really like to see us start rebuilding both lines, offense and defense because that's where it all starts. If we could pressure other teams the way Brunell is pressured all the time maybe our secondary wouldn't look quite so bad.

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

Back in the day, when the Skins couldn't score, I believe it was said that the magic number on offense points per game was around 20. Score 20 points and you'll win most games. Our offense is currently putting up an average of 20 points a game. However, the defense is giving up 24. Throw out the Houston game, and the defense is giving up 26 points per game.

While Brunell isn't doing much (11th rated QB thus far), the defense couldn't stop a bug with a brick wall right now. The Skins defense is incompetent to say the least. They are 29th against the pass because of a depleted secondary that has 2 INTs. The linebackers have been inconsistent, and the defensive line has had many injuries and cannot get a consistent pass rush.

GW's theory about being able to plug anyone into his system has been deeply flawed this season. It's quite obvious that this isn't the case...either that, or these players just don't get it.

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

The defense is definately the bigger problem. That said, the offense has more tools to work with (see Portis, Moss, Cooley, ARE, Lloyd) than our defense (see injuries to Griffin, Springs, Marshall, Rogers) and should be outperforming our defense.

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

easily the defense is the bigger problem. brunell has been decent at least, whether u all will admit it or not, our defense just cant stop anyone, not even the titans or texans

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

[QUOTE=Big C;233124]easily the defense is the bigger problem. brunell has been decent at least, whether u all will admit it or not, our defense just cant stop anyone, not even the titans or texans[/QUOTE]

I agree that our defense is the bigger problem. As for Brunell, I could look decent if Gibbs asked me to hand the ball off or pretend to look deep and then throw it to a guy in the flats 3 yards behind the line of scrimmage.

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

i really don't understand that philosophy at all. in Gibbs first go round, it was pounding the running game, and throwing long to the posse

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

i love how they're just handing the ball off to our recievers now instead of throwing it to them. better taking the whole QB thing out of the equation.

Re: QB or defense: what's the bigger problem?
 

QB because he can affect the defense. By consistently going 3 and out and/or not gaining the field position advantage the defense is being put in difficult positions or worn down late in games. Now they need to step up a little and perform but they also need the offense to carry it's weight. By getting turnovers it's a bonus to the offense if the defense makes a play but the offense HAS to help the defense.