Reality check on Campbell
 

There's been a lot of talk about starting Campbell versus Dallas. As we know, no way is this going to happen. At best he might get a few snaps if the game is lost. Brunell is the starter until the season is over (which could be a couple of games from now) and there is no way that Gibbs will start Campbell until that point.

When things go wrong it is natural for us fans to scream for change but is Campbell more likely to win than Brunell against Dallas? If we are being reasonable we would have to say that in all probability the answer is no at this point. Throwing Campbell in now is basically conceding that the season is over and we are looking to '07 already. While we still have a slim chance of challenging for the playoffs playing Brunell is surely the best option that we have at this point.

If Brunell stinks up the joint against the Cowgirls then scream for his head but until he does the fans have to get behind him. He turned it around last season and could do it again. Let's look to next year when this year is over - at this point it isn't.

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

Why can't we look at adding Campbell as having a positive effect?? May add a spark to the passing game or confidence to a team that has none?? I know its a long stretch to think that would happen, but I'm sure the coaches would make the change in order to add some life to the team. Not concede the season. If they put Campbell in and say well, there goes the season, what message does that send to him?? Campbell not playing tells me he is not ready to play, because if Brunell is our best QB option then the season is already lost.

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

I'll concede that Brunell gives the team a better chance of winning in the short term, and we know where Gibbs stands on that. Of greater interest - will Jason Campbell be promoted to #2 for the Dallas game? He's taken most of the 1st team snaps with Brunell nursing sore ribs. This will probably be the week, so Campbell will now be one big hit away from inheriting the job. And who knows, perhaps given the opportunity, he would energize the offense as Jay Schroeder did when he replaced Theismann. Even if he doesn't take a snap in year two, Campbell has to be given a real opportunity to compete for the job next pre-season.

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

if moss doenst play this week all of us fans better get used to the five yard dump passes to the RB's this week more than we have already seen. with no moss that means we wont even seen a brunnell lame duck ball that moss has to go get. on offense is to easy to defend if portis doenst get off to a good first half. even if he does when it comes down to those third and 8 plays brunell will throw short of the first and we will punt. our defense is a whole other issue. we cant tackle on run plays on first and second down which sets up short third down plays for them. when we down have them in a third and long we almost always find a way to give them the first down. this season is done we went 2-5 with brunell as our leader. i dont want to hear its not all his fault because i know its not. but how many times has he had time in the pocket and checked down to rb. this is a great strategy when u have a good defense and are leading in games but when our defense sucks and are behind alot. take a chance this is a risk and reward playing style but we are losing make a play or try for the big throw. why doenst he because he has a noddle of a arm and his done as starter.

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

While the coaches are hardly likely to put him in and say the season is over I believe that they will only do so when the season is over. They could put Campbell in and he may add a spark but surely Brunell is more likely to get a win that Campbell? Brunell, for all his faults has proven that he can win in this league. It seems inevitable that we won't be going to the playoffs so let's wait and throw Campbell in when that happens. In the meantime let's back Brunell to get it done even though it is a long shot.

You've got to put in who you think will get the job done and the bottom line is that Brunell is that man at the moment (God help us!)

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

The question should no longer be who gives us the best chance to win, but it should be who gives us less of a chance at losing. As we know, Brunell hasn't done that. So why not try the new guy who might have something before the season is completely over (though I already think it's over.)

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

i would agree with you re: brunell...start him v dallas, although i clearly think he is washed up, but i think you need to consider the fact that benching him is not just a result of his play (which has been bad), but also a function of the performance of the rest of the team. while he is a large part of the reason, brunell is not soley reponsible for the 2-5 record (horrible D?!?!?!). Therefore, I would argue that objectively reviewing the season, and our prospects moving forward, the season is, in essence, over (barring a 7-2 run). We need to start grooming JC, today... i think he missed a great opportunity with the bye week.
on a brighter note, looking around the NFL, there are a lot of young QBs out there...who knows, perhaps campbell will find early sucess, and lead us on that 7-2 run! (ever the optimist)

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

The question should no longer be who gives us the best chance to win, but it should be who gives us less of a chance at losing.

Isn't that the same thing?

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

yeah, brunell's record is speaking louder than any "realist". I don't see how campbell could make things any worse, and if he's worth Half of what we gave to get him, he should be capable of making a playoff run.

Quick Question...

what happens if we leave brunell in and we do make the playoffs this year?
The D would definately have to step up, but Brunell could be a huge part of that, and if he does come back swinging, do we get rid of him next year?

I wonder if that happens, (and dont say it couldn't because this is exactly what Gibbs is wanting to happen, and he's got faith it will...) will brunell be back next year, and would we want to go through a learning curve with JC next year as he gets acclimated to an offense it apparently takes a year to get acclimated to for someone who didn't score a 7 on the wonderlick....

not a shot or anything, just a question...

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

[QUOTE=canthetuna;237213]yeah, brunell's record is speaking louder than any "realist". I don't see how campbell could make things any worse, and if he's worth Half of what we gave to get him, he should be capable of making a playoff run.

Quick Question...

what happens if we leave brunell in and we do make the playoffs this year?
The D would definately have to step up, but Brunell could be a huge part of that, and if he does come back swinging, do we get rid of him next year?

I wonder if that happens, (and dont say it couldn't because this is exactly what Gibbs is wanting to happen, and he's got faith it will...) will brunell be back next year, and would we want to go through a learning curve with JC next year as he gets acclimated to an offense it apparently takes a year to get acclimated to for someone who didn't score a 7 on the wonderlick....

not a shot or anything, just a question...[/QUOTE]

A valid question. Wouldn't it be great if we had that problem next year? I'd be very happy if we got the playoffs with Brunell as starter and then had to wonder about next year, wouldn't you?

Anyway, the Redskins have proven time and again that they don't really plan for the future but are more concerned with now!

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

I hope campbell has come a long way since preseason, cause he showed nothing then.....against 3rd string defenses. He seemed to lack vision, I'm assuming that was because of the new offense. I hope he has grasped Saunders' scheme, but I doubt he has. I wouldnt be against starting todd collins. I think he would be a better guy for campbell to learn from, that is if campbell proves not ready.

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

[QUOTE=The Zimmermans;237218]I wouldnt be against starting todd collins. I think he would be a better guy for campbell to learn from, that is if campbell proves not ready.[/QUOTE]

I agree and think that Collins is more likely to step in than Brunell. Bottom line is that while the season is still alive (just) we have to fight and do everything we can to win. Putting Campbell in just doesn't give us the best chance to do that in my opinion.

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

I would be so much more excited for the game if the redskins started another QB this sunday. You would think that Gibbs would realize that the fans dont support brunell, you don't want a guy in who the fans no longer support. Gibbs benched brunell in 2004, I hope he can do the same in 2006.

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

[quote=The Zimmermans;237228]I would be so much more excited for the game if the redskins started another QB this sunday. You would think that Gibbs would realize that the fans dont support brunell, you don't want a guy in who the fans no longer support. Gibbs benched brunell in 2004, I hope he can do the same in 2006.[/quote]

Not me, Brunell was my only viable alternative QB in my fantasy football league. I guess I could try Huard, though.

Aside from that, let's hope that Gibbs decision to switch QB's is not based on the voice of the fans but rather knowing if Campbell is ready.

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

Why does everyone keep saying "the season is still alive"? Has anyone watched the past 7 games? Brunell absolutley blows, and now with his "bruised" ribs he is going to be even worse, everytime he gets injured his play goes to crap, is it possible that he could play worse? I hope not. Put the kid in see if the team improves, it worked for Dallas (last week), pittsburg and the pats a couple of years ago.

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

[quote=canthetuna;237213]Quick Question...

what happens if we leave brunell in and we do make the playoffs this year?
The D would definately have to step up, but Brunell could be a huge part of that, and if he does come back swinging, do we get rid of him next year?

I wonder if that happens, (and dont say it couldn't because this is exactly what Gibbs is wanting to happen, and he's got faith it will...) will brunell be back next year, and would we want to go through a learning curve with JC next year as he gets acclimated to an offense it apparently takes a year to get acclimated to for someone who didn't score a 7 on the wonderlick....[/quote]Great question. Here's the thing. If we do make a playoff run, surely we would have to finish the season 7-2 or better. If he does that and makes a deep playoff run, say gets to the championship game, then you don't get rid of him. See, people are under the impression that anytime you lose, the QB isn't good enough and the Redskins could quite realistically go 8-1 without Brunell doing a damn thing different than he is now.

If he doesn't get us to the NFC Championship, I'd hand Campbell the job in the offseason.

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

[QUOTE=The Zimmermans;237228]I would be so much more excited for the game if the redskins started another QB this sunday. You would think that Gibbs would realize that the fans dont support brunell, you don't want a guy in who the fans no longer support. Gibbs benched brunell in 2004, I hope he can do the same in 2006.[/QUOTE]

Sure, that makes a lot of sense. Base your decisions on who the fans want

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

[quote=GTripp0012;237235]Great question. Here's the thing. If we do make a playoff run, surely we would have to finish the season 7-2 or better. If he does that and makes a deep playoff run, say gets to the championship game, then you don't get rid of him. See, people are under the impression that anytime you lose, the QB isn't good enough and the Redskins could quite realistically go 8-1 without Brunell doing a damn thing different than he is now.

If he doesn't get us to the NFC Championship, I'd hand Campbell the job in the offseason.[/quote]

The Ravens got rid of Dilfer. Cincinnatti got rid of Kitna. The 49er's let Montanna go. The Chargers got rid of Brees (sure he had an injured shoulder but..). At some point you have to make the switch for the future. An aging QB needs to be a huge fan favorite in order to stay when there's a young gun waiting on the bench.

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

I said a few weeks ago to not expect to see Campbell until the season is all but over, which will be with losses to the Cowboys and Eagles.

But with Brunell's recent rib injury and the fact that Campbell has been seeing a lot of work in practice, I won't be surprised if we see him sooner.

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

Many fans have reached the point where they're not as much concerned with wins and losses at this stage as they are about change. Maybe it would be different if they felt we had a realistic chance of winning something this year, but the way this team has performed thus far, it's very difficult to continue maintaining an optimistic view. This Brunell/Campbell dilema will undoubtably work itself out, but if Brunell continues to start these games and his play does not inspire, there's going to be maximim fan pressure on Gibbs to take a different view of his stated position. It was fan pressure that made Gibbs rethink his decision on Brunell in 2004 when he benched him in favor of Ramsey, and I have a feeling things could get real ugly at Fed-Ex if Gibbs continues along this stubborn course.

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

[quote=The Zimmermans;237228]I would be so much more excited for the game if the redskins started another QB this sunday. You would think that Gibbs would realize that the fans dont support brunell, you don't want a guy in who the fans no longer support. Gibbs benched brunell in 2004, I hope he can do the same in 2006.[/quote]


I think you believe that the fans in general do not support Brunell. Not true. Many don't, but............many do. While I am interested in seeing JC play, and beginning the next QB evolution, I can wait for the next couple of games to see if the current tailspin can be arrested. Brunell is part of a TEAM playing BAD football, not a solo act

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

to all who say JC is not the anwser now and the season is still alive we are 2-5 people. we dont any facet of the game to hang our hat on no offense no defense or special teams. we suck this year we lost to the titans. lost to the vikes on opening night we should have beaten them we were up at the half. no excuses we deserve to be 2-5. we are 2-5 team with a vet a QB. lets see the titans 2-5 vince young starting. 2-5 bucs gradcowski. raiders 2-5 walters. these are the young guys playing for there teams. but we have brunell leading us to 2-5. yes qbs get to much glory and too much critizism for loses but he the team leader on the field

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

We will see if the fans support brunell this sunday? just open your ears and you will be enlightened.

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

Correct! While what you say is generally true, to not put the best team on the field to win when THERE IS a chance (albeit small one) to turn it around is GIVING UP, QUITTING. It is possible that JC could work some miracle, but the odds against that are extraordinary. First year starting QB's don't excell. Rothlesberger is a freak

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

My humble two cents on who plays QB.

When I look to hire a person to do a job, I look for experience, knowledge, pedigree, character, and all too often cost.

I have never hired someone because they could use the experience and they probably couldn't do any worse than the guy doing it now. I do not tie my performance record to a guy who has not proven he can get the job done.

You have to prove yourself as better capable to do the job before you unseat the incumbent. Its just the way life works.

For JC that means proving it day in and day out with consistent performances at practice, in front of those that make the decision.

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

the way u prove your self in the NFL is with playing in an actual game. i dont know how many times this needs to be stated is we are 2-5!!!! i know brunell is probably the better QB to beat dallas this week but what glimmer of hope are we holding on too. last when we won all those games in a row to make the playoffs at least of defense was playing very well prior to the winning streak and our offense only had to get a little better. i think i have come to relaize now that brunell will start until we all but barley elminated from the playoffs. which will be shortly.

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

[QUOTE=Dogtag;237354]You have to prove yourself as better capable to do the job before you unseat the incumbent. Its just the way life works.

For JC that means proving it day in and day out with consistent performances at practice, in front of those that make the decision.[/QUOTE]

so why isn't Taylor Jacobs or Antonio Brown our number 1 receiver?

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

[QUOTE=Dogtag;237354]My humble two cents on who plays QB.

When I look to hire a person to do a job, I look for experience, knowledge, pedigree, character, and all too often cost.

[/b]I have never hired someone because they could use the experience and they probably couldn't do any worse than the guy doing it now. I do not tie my performance record to a guy who has not proven he can get the job done.[/b]

You have to prove yourself as better capable to do the job before you unseat the incumbent. Its just the way life works.

For JC that means proving it day in and day out with consistent performances at practice, in front of those that make the decision.[/QUOTE]

So what you're saying is that without experience you won't hire someone, but how is that someone supposed to get experience if no one will hire him until he gets experience? Campbell's been "interning" for the past year and a half, how long are we going to keep the training wheels on him?

I don't buy that Brunell gives us the best chance for winning, simply because his career arc and Campbell's are at the complete opposite ends of the spectrum. Brunell is what he is, we can hope he plays more consistently but he's not going to get any better, not at 36 and not in the NFL. Campbell can improve, and given how much we gave up to get him I'd say we're counting on him an awful lot. Since Gibbs proclaimed Campbell ready to play, I'd say your qualifier on JC gaining experience first has come true this week in practice. So start JC, I mean he's got some pretty powerful initials, so if anyone can save our season it's JC!

Brunell's experience is only valuable if it leads to wins or prevents losses. Since we're 2-5, I'd say his experience hasn't proved too valuable thus far.

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

a qb is a different position. jacobs and brown had chances to prove themselves on special teams and on occasion on offense. a qb needs to play games to gather experience. antonio peirce the big year he had before he left for the giants had never been a starter look at what he did and is doing. i just read on redskins.com moss and portis status is uncertain for the game if we dont have either of those guys getting ready for the "brunell five yard dump off show" all day long. 3rd and 8 dump for five yards then punt. 1st and 10 run for 4 yards. brings up 2nd and 6 "whistle" false start 5 yard penalty. 2 and 11 wr screen gain of 2 yards brings up 3rd and 9 guess whats coming five yard check down pass to betts 4th down and have to punt.

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

Well if you don't think campbell is ready then bring in todd.......any change at QB could have a positive effect. Maybe Gibbs would be more comfortable bringing in another veteran to salvage the season, then once playoffs are out of reach, let campbell get in there.

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

[QUOTE=redskins5044;237381]a qb is a different position. jacobs and brown had chances to prove themselves on special teams and on occasion on offense. a qb needs to play games to gather experience. antonio peirce the big year he had before he left for the giants had never been a starter look at what he did and is doing. i[/QUOTE]

sorry, couldn't grasp you point. mine was there was no substitute for actual game experience. not practice, not even preseason.

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;237248]I said a few weeks ago to not expect to see Campbell until the season is all but over, which will be with losses to the Cowboys and Eagles.

But with Brunell's recent rib injury and the fact that Campbell has been seeing a lot of work in practice, I won't be surprised if we see him sooner.[/QUOTE]

practice with the first team is a huge Deal. I keep hearing on Cowboys sites that he might start. everyone here is saying that there is no way.

Will he start? Or make a second half appearance?

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

TOTALLY doubtful. Brunell will start. And I will be sad. :(

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

[quote=5RINGS;237392]practice with the first team is a huge Deal. I keep hearing on Cowboys sites that he might start. everyone here is saying that there is no way.

Will he start? Or make a second half appearance?[/quote]

Campbell has been taking a lot of snaps in practice because Brunell is nursing sore ribs, but Brunell was supposed to be back in practice today.

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

If Brunell doesn't practice again, I would honestly think it would be a bit unfair to start him without practicing for a long ass time.

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

[quote=5RINGS;237392]practice with the first team is a huge Deal. I keep hearing on Cowboys sites that he might start. everyone here is saying that there is no way.

Will he start? Or make a second half appearance?[/quote]

As much as it pains me 5rings, you have a point. At least conspiratorially. JC has been taking the bulk of the first team snaps, which IS a huge deal. I fully expect MB to start against.............."those that cannot be named". However, it is not beyond the realm of possibility, that Joe2 is laying some alternative "injury" ground work for Brunell to bow out if things doni't go well.

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

Oh, we could only hope that's the case. I think it's horseshit if Brunell hardly practices in preparation for one, of a series, of must-win games.

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;237408]If Brunell doesn't practice again, I would honestly think it would be a bit unfair to start him without practicing for a long ass time.[/quote]

Yesterday Brunell said he would "be back strong" for practice today, so by the sounds of that he's not in danger of sitting out the rest of the week.

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

Grr. This is killing me. I REALLY hope that if his injury hampers his production that he has enough balls to sit it out.

Re: Reality check on Campbell
 

[quote=memphisskin;237378]So what you're saying is that without experience you won't hire someone, but how is that someone supposed to get experience if no one will hire him until he gets experience? Campbell's been "interning" for the past year and a half, how long are we going to keep the training wheels on him? [quote]

That's correct, when I need a professional entry level position then I get someone with experience.

How do you get experience. We have all dealt with that question in our individual career paths. It differs.

Would you elect to have an inexperienced yet promising medical intern come in and do an eye surgery on you? Nope, me either.