The end of the world must be near: King voting for Monk for the Hall
 

[url=http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/peter_king/11/26/hof.receivers/1.html]SI.com - Writers - Monday Morning QB (cont.) - Monday November 27, 2006 10:00AM[/url]

In some ways I've been part of the problem. Even though Monk retired with the all-time receptions record, I've historically been anti-Monk for several reasons. He played 16 seasons and led his own team in receiving six times; only once was he voted first-team All-Pro. I questioned his impact on a team where the running game and [B]Gary Clark[/B], for many years, were the prime targets to stop by opposing defensive coordinators. I know. I watched the Giants do it nine times over four years against Washington. But last year, after a man I'd advocated got in ([B]Harry Carson[/B]), veteran NFL writer [B]Len Shapiro[/B] from the [I]Washington Post[/I] e-mailed me and reminded me that everything Carson meant to the Giants, Monk meant to Washington. The leadership, the selflessness, the durable productivity ... all the same. I decided I should re-think my position.

As I made my rounds of training camps this year, I asked veteran coaches about Monk and the one word that kept coming up was "unselfish.'' His downfield blocking prowess kept coming up. His long-term numbers were almost [B]Yastrzemski[/B]-like (one or two great years, lots of productive ones, very reliable). But when I talked to [B]Joe Gibbs[/B] on Friday, the one thing that stood out was the body of work we don't see -- the downfield blocking, the quiet leadership, and this: Unlike his louder receiving mates Clark and [B]Ricky Sanders[/B], Monk, according to Gibbs, never once said he wanted the ball more. "We used him almost as a tight end a lot,'' said Gibbs, "and not only did he do it willingly, he was a great blocker for us. If he'd been a squeaky wheel, who knows how many catches Art would have had. But he cared about one thing -- the team.''

So many of the things Carson did can't be quantified. Similarly with Monk. Not only did he lead the NFL in all-time receptions when he retired, but he blocked superbly and was the most important locker-room influence on a three-time Super Bowl champion. [B]I'm voting for him.[/B]

Re: The end of the world must be near: King voting for Monk for the Hall
 

Oh...my...God.

Re: The end of the world must be near: King voting for Monk for the Hall
 

It's about time, but at least I'm happy that he's finally opened his eyes. Now, if only we can get the rest of the voters to agree with him...

Re: The end of the world must be near: King voting for Monk for the Hall
 

WTF?!?!?! Jeeze, did someone get some nasty pcitures of the guy? Has hell frozen over? Are their flying pigs nearby? Wow.

Re: The end of the world must be near: King voting for Monk for the Hall
 

It's not like Gibbs hasn't been saying this all along. And why did it take until now for him to ask Gibbs what he thought? Makes me think he always intended to vote him in. He just wanted to be difficult, and more importantly, to draw attention to himself

Re: The end of the world must be near: King voting for Monk for the Hall
 

I'm still pissed that he says "Even though Monk retired with the all-time receptions record," like that's something anyone can do!
Add to his list that MOnk was also a clutch reciever & great runner after the catch & not easy for db's to bring down at 6'3, 210.

Re: The end of the world must be near: King voting for Monk for the Hall
 

Get The *&#^ Out Of Here !!!!!

Re: The end of the world must be near: King voting for Monk for the Hall
 

All along King has said that he would keep an open mind about Monk, let's at least give him credit for that. He's come through on his word.

Carson getting in was clearly the catalyst for this change of heart.

Re: The end of the world must be near: King voting for Monk for the Hall
 

Hmmm...mayhaps I'll have to check hotel rates in Canton sometime in the near future. As shitty as the ballot selection has been for Art, I hope he gets in and I hope he has the largest supporting crowd ever for a HOF induction ceremony.

Re: The end of the world must be near: King voting for Monk for the Hall
 

Its about time he recognized.

I still hate him though....

Re: The end of the world must be near: King voting for Monk for the Hall
 

[quote=724Skinsfan;251298]Hmmm...mayhaps I'll have to check hotel rates in Canton sometime in the near future. As shitty as the ballot selection has been for Art, I hope he gets in and I hope he has the largest supporting crowd ever for a HOF induction ceremony.[/quote]

If he does get in I'm going to seriously consider taking that trip too.

Re: The end of the world must be near: King voting for Monk for the Hall
 

4k5y7xcvn zrt

(My jaw just hit the keyboard.)

Re: The end of the world must be near: King voting for Monk for the Hall
 

Well It's About Time To Break Out The Timeshare Baby !!!!!!

Re: The end of the world must be near: King voting for Monk for the Hall
 

[quote=BrudLee;251304]4k5y7xcvn zrt

(My jaw just hit the keyboard.)[/quote]


HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA :food-smil

Re: The end of the world must be near: King voting for Monk for the Hall
 

Was just about to post with the exact same headline.

Holy Crap!!!

Monk's in baby! The tide has turned!!! It's about f***ing time!

Re: The end of the world must be near: King voting for Monk for the Hall
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;251300]If he does get in I'm going to seriously consider taking that trip too.[/QUOTE]
I think a lot of people around here would be right there with you, myself included.

Re: The end of the world must be near: King voting for Monk for the Hall
 

This is great news and all, but it just makes PK an even bigger douche (if such a thing were possible). So, all of a sudden PK is going to be objective when he votes? F you PK -- you don't deserve to vote.

Re: The end of the world must be near: King voting for Monk for the Hall
 

It sounds like Len Shapiro did some heavy lifting on this. He deserves a lot of credit.

Re: The end of the world must be near: King voting for Monk for the Hall
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;251296]All along King has said that he would keep an open mind about Monk, let's at least give him credit for that. He's come through on his word.

Carson getting in was clearly the catalyst for this change of heart.[/QUOTE]

Actually Matty, he was dead set against Monk for years until Shapiro called him on his BS after Carson got in. It was only this summer when he said he would have an open mind and ask around the league on his training camp tours for other opinons on Monk. A lot of credit goes to Shapiro and I'll give King credit for truly having an open mind and admitting he was wrong.. Now his other claim of 'having no more pull than anyone else in the room' should be refuted if Monk gets in this year after King publicly announced his support.

Re: The end of the world must be near: King voting for Monk for the Hall
 

My bad on the dupe thread. I got so excited when I read it I nearly messed my pants. I think it's a real good sign - I think Dr. Z will likely follow suit. This could be Monk's year.

Re: The end of the world must be near: King voting for Monk for the Hall
 

Fuck Dr.Z and King. I hate both of those douchers.

Re: The end of the world must be near: King voting for Monk for the Hall
 

[quote=Paintrain;251329]Actually Matty, he was dead set against Monk for years until Shapiro called him on his BS after Carson got in. It was only this summer when he said he would have an open mind and ask around the league on his training camp tours for other opinons on Monk. A lot of credit goes to Shapiro and I'll give King credit for truly having an open mind and admitting he was wrong.. Now his other claim of 'having no more pull than anyone else in the room' should be refuted if Monk gets in this year after King publicly announced his support.[/quote]

At least he was open to changing his mind, I doubt we would ever hear Dr. Z come out with an admission like this.

Re: The end of the world must be near: King voting for Monk for the Hall
 

My only problem with the article is that he compares Monk to Yaz. Yaz was not a borderline HoFer, Monk is.

Re: The end of the world must be near: King voting for Monk for the Hall
 

I am just glad he is going to be voted in ...finally! Thru it all, you've never heard one comment or negativity from Monk himself...kinda like when he played. It is time to reward CLASS.

Re: The end of the world must be near: King voting for Monk for the Hall
 

[quote=dblanch66;251354]I am just glad he is going to be voted in ...finally! Thru it all, you've never heard one comment or negativity from Monk himself...kinda like when he played. It is time to reward CLASS.[/quote]

Well we still don't know he is going in. Hopefully he will.

Re: The end of the world must be near: King voting for Monk for the Hall
 

[QUOTE=hooskins;251360]Well we still don't know he is going in. Hopefully he will.[/QUOTE]

As someone said earlier - PK and Dr.Z have more pull as independents than the locals. They can continually deny it but that's just BS. You win over the independents, especially the well publicized ones, and it's game over. Yes, PK is just one vote but it is one loud, well-known vote. For him to publicly change his mind is going to sway every local reporter who is a borderline Monk voter.

Watch, as the process rolls on, you are going to hear more and more calls for Monk to get in from the media (Hell, last year, ESPN's Mike & Mike were saying it was a travesty that he wasn't in). PK's change of mind will be covered and referenced by all the mindless talking heads who merely repeat what others media members have said (Sean Salisbury, I'm talking to you).

Historically, there have been two obstacles to Monk getting in - PK and Dr. Z. Now, one of them has practically thrown himself at the mercy of the court and said "mea culpa". Dr. Z will never come around 'cause he is a 49'ers homer who refuses to credit Monk's selflessness, BUT - because PK has made such a public proclamation, that will be repeated and "covered" by the national talking heads - Dr. Z's intransagience is just going to look bitter and pathetic.

People will start questioning Dr. Z's reasoning (finally): Okay, even accepting your argument that he made a living of 8 yard hitches, he did it for 16 years and nobody stopped him. If he was so predictable and bland, why couldn't anyone stop him? How many of those hitches were for first downs? What about the intangibles - haven't you advocated more than one player (including a couple of 49'ers) that didn't have great stats? After talking to players and coaches, PK seems to think Monk contributed a lot more than just catches on the field - Have you talked to players and coaches to see whether they think he is a HOF'er?

It's a done deal folks. Book the passage to Canton now and beat the rush. In fact, I am betting this becomes one of the "feel good" stories of the 2007 season.

Yes - I wish PK had figured all this out before waiting this long, but I'll credit the man for saying (earlier this season) that he would reevaluate his position and then doing just that. Shapiro may have been the catalyst but w/o PK making this change, Monk in the Hall would not happen.

Re: The end of the world must be near: King voting for Monk for the Hall
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;251400]As someone said earlier - PK and Dr.Z have more pull as independents than the locals. They can continually deny it but that's just BS. You win over the independents, especially the well publicized ones, and it's game over. Yes, PK is just one vote but it is one loud, well-known vote. For him to publicly change his mind is going to sway every local reporter who is a borderline Monk voter.

Watch, as the process rolls on, you are going to hear more and more calls for Monk to get in from the media (Hell, last year, ESPN's Mike & Mike were saying it was a travesty that he wasn't in). PK's change of mind will be covered and referenced by all the mindless talking heads who merely repeat what others media members have said (Sean Salisbury, I'm talking to you).

Historically, there have been two obstacles to Monk getting in - PK and Dr. Z. Now, one of them has practically thrown himself at the mercy of the court and said "mea culpa". Dr. Z will never come around 'cause he is a 49'ers homer who refuses to credit Monk's selflessness, BUT - because PK has made such a public proclamation, that will be repeated and "covered" by the national talking heads - Dr. Z's intransagience is just going to look bitter and pathetic.

People will start questioning Dr. Z's reasoning (finally): Okay, even accepting your argument that he made a living of 8 yard hitches, he did it for 16 years and nobody stopped him. If he was so predictable and bland, why couldn't anyone stop him? How many of those hitches were for first downs? What about the intangibles - haven't you advocated more than one player (including a couple of 49'ers) that didn't have great stats? After talking to players and coaches, PK seems to think Monk contributed a lot more than just catches on the field - Have you talked to players and coaches to see whether they think he is a HOF'er?

It's a done deal folks. Book the passage to Canton now and beat the rush. In fact, I am betting this becomes one of the "feel good" stories of the 2007 season.

Yes - I wish PK had figured all this out before waiting this long, but I'll credit the man for saying (earlier this season) that he would reevaluate his position and then doing just that. Shapiro may have been the catalyst but w/o PK making this change, Monk in the Hall would not happen.[/quote]

nice take

Re: The end of the world must be near: King voting for Monk for the Hall
 

Well I'll be....... Its a miracle

Re: The end of the world must be near: King voting for Monk for the Hall
 

Very good news! Don't like King very much, but he gets some credit for changing his mind even though he is also bringing attention to himself at the same time. I think King has a good amount of influence among the voters who haven't supported Monk in the past and hopefully he goes in this year.

Re: The end of the world must be near: King voting for Monk for the Hall
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;251400]As someone said earlier - PK and Dr.Z have more pull as independents than the locals. They can continually deny it but that's just BS. You win over the independents, especially the well publicized ones, and it's game over. Yes, PK is just one vote but it is one loud, well-known vote. For him to publicly change his mind is going to sway every local reporter who is a borderline Monk voter.

Watch, as the process rolls on, you are going to hear more and more calls for Monk to get in from the media (Hell, last year, ESPN's Mike & Mike were saying it was a travesty that he wasn't in). PK's change of mind will be covered and referenced by all the mindless talking heads who merely repeat what others media members have said (Sean Salisbury, I'm talking to you).

Historically, there have been two obstacles to Monk getting in - PK and Dr. Z. Now, one of them has practically thrown himself at the mercy of the court and said "mea culpa". Dr. Z will never come around 'cause he is a 49'ers homer who refuses to credit Monk's selflessness, BUT - because PK has made such a public proclamation, that will be repeated and "covered" by the national talking heads - Dr. Z's intransagience is just going to look bitter and pathetic.

People will start questioning Dr. Z's reasoning (finally): Okay, even accepting your argument that he made a living of 8 yard hitches, he did it for 16 years and nobody stopped him. If he was so predictable and bland, why couldn't anyone stop him? How many of those hitches were for first downs? What about the intangibles - haven't you advocated more than one player (including a couple of 49'ers) that didn't have great stats? After talking to players and coaches, PK seems to think Monk contributed a lot more than just catches on the field - Have you talked to players and coaches to see whether they think he is a HOF'er?

It's a done deal folks. Book the passage to Canton now and beat the rush. In fact, I am betting this becomes one of the "feel good" stories of the 2007 season.

Yes - I wish PK had figured all this out before waiting this long, but I'll credit the man for saying (earlier this season) that he would reevaluate his position and then doing just that. Shapiro may have been the catalyst but w/o PK making this change, Monk in the Hall would not happen.[/quote]

Good points.

Re: The end of the world must be near: King voting for Monk for the Hall
 

[quote=BrudLee;251304]4k5y7xcvn zrt

(My jaw just hit the keyboard.)[/quote]
must have quite the jaw to hit the 4and k

Re: The end of the world must be near: King voting for Monk for the Hall
 

Just to supplement, Look at this line from PK's article:

As I made my rounds of training camps this year, [B]I asked veteran coaches about Monk[/B] and the one word that kept coming up was 'unselfish.' ''

Again, this is one of the reasons that Dr. Z's and PK's opinions get more credibility and carry more weight. As national correspondents, they can speak to more people on a specific topic then the locals can. Do you think the Minnesota reporter spent time this year going around to various training camps to talk to "veteran coaches" about Monk? I don't think so. No, he (or she) is going to rely on PK, Z and other nationals to do that and then let them debate it. Because of the way PK approached this, the locals are going to go his way. Also, by publishing his position, PK now doesn't have to be THE advocate for Monk in the room, he has already done so in a much more public forum.

Let's see what Z's response to this is later in the week. I am betting he has to say something on the issue (Hey Redskin's Nation - flood him with tons of polite e-mails simply asking him what he thought of PK's article and whether a) he has polled coaches, fans or players and b) PK's opinion and research might cause him to reevaluate his own position).

My bet is that he would like to ignore PK's bit but won't be able to and that he will, once again, pout about Monk's unsuitability. He [I]may[/I] go as far as saying that everyone is entitled to their opinion but that, based on his recollections, he is sticking with his original position. By doing so, he gets to remain anti-monk (and true to his "principles") but gets out of the way for those who want to vote for Monk.

Sorry for these long (probably pointless) soliliques on the matter, but I am just so f***ing psyched right now.

Re: The end of the world must be near: King voting for Monk for the Hall
 

What a crock...the HOF voting process is such a sham. How can King claim to have not known what Art Monk meant to the Redskins in the 80's? Was he in a coma or just to far up the Giants collective arse to recognize the merits of a rival player. He is basically saying that he shuned Monk all these years because he was uninformed...great to know.

I am glad Monk may finally get in but that whole Hall of Fame is a f-ing circus...

Re: The end of the world must be near: King voting for Monk for the Hall
 

I think that King had to agree to change his position on Monk in order to get the votes for Carson last year. And I think he was whipping votes for Carson because he knew it was the will of his Lord and Master Bill Parcells. None of the substantive points he makes are truer now than they were last year. It seems to me that he struck a deal with someone or perhaps several someones.

What a shame that simple-minded reporters like King are given such power. If he's going to coaches to get their opinions, why don't we just let the coaches vote?

At any rate, it's great that Monk will finally be honored. Now it will be interesting to see what happens with Darell Green and Russ Grimm. Is it going to take 6 or 7 years to get them in?

Re: The end of the world must be near: King voting for Monk for the Hall
 

[QUOTE=70Chip;251453]I think that King had to agree to change his position on Monk in order to get the votes for Carson last year. And I think he was whipping votes for Carson because he knew it was the will of his Lord and Master Bill Parcells. None of the substantive points he makes are truer now than they were last year. It seems to me that he struck a deal with someone or perhaps several someones.

What a shame that simple-minded reporters like King are given such power. If he's going to coaches to get their opinions, why don't we just let the coaches vote?

At any rate, it's great that Monk will finally be honored. Now it will be interesting to see what happens with Darell Green and Russ Grimm. Is it going to take 6 or 7 years to get them in?[/QUOTE]

Which coaches? Past, present, both?

I have said it before and I'll say it again, the writers voting for HOF is not perfect but it the best way to do it.

Re: The end of the world must be near: King voting for Monk for the Hall
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;251296]All along King has said that he would keep an open mind about Monk, let's at least give him credit for that. He's come through on his word.

Carson getting in was clearly the catalyst for this change of heart.[/QUOTE]


Either that or Len Shapiro has some serious dirt on him that he doesn't want to get out....

Re: The end of the world must be near: King voting for Monk for the Hall
 

[QUOTE=70Chip;251453]I think that King had to agree to change his position on Monk in order to get the votes for Carson last year. And I think he was whipping votes for Carson because he knew it was the will of his Lord and Master Bill Parcells. None of the substantive points he makes are truer now than they were last year. It seems to me that he struck a deal with someone or perhaps several someones.[/QUOTE]

King is a lot of things. Essentially, however, he is a Giants homer and a Parcell's sycophant who fails to recognize or acknowlege that he is both. IMO - These basic flaws cause him to be less then fair minded or objective in his analysis but, because of his position as a national writer, he is given much more credibility as an objective reporter by other talking heads. Again, it was his basic Giant/Parcells prejudices that caused him to devalue and overlook the very factors he is now considering in Monk. Although true last year and the year before, they are not obvious except to those who followed the team or played with/against Monk. PK sought those people out and, as all of us expected, got overwhelming support for Monk.

At the same time, I don't think he is intentionally dishonest in either his reporting or his commentary. Other than his significant failure to recognize his own biases and prejudices, I think he strives for integrity in his writing. For that reason, I don't think "had to change his mind on Monk". I take him at face value that it was Shapiro's call that got him to reevaluate - that has consistently been his story and I see no reason to doubt it.

Quite frankly, it seems that Shapiro used King's attempt at internal intregit to Monk's advantage - "How can you advocate a very good LB like Carson based on his intangibles and the statements of his coach and not use those same considerations for Monk." PK finally acknowledged his personal bias and sought out other opionions. Although it pisses me off that it took him so long to recognize his failure and his inconsistency, I respect that he was true to his word, overcame his biases and all but assured Monk a place in the Hall.

Re: The end of the world must be near: King voting for Monk for the Hall
 

I actually teared up reading King's article.

Re: The end of the world must be near: King voting for Monk for the Hall
 

[QUOTE=NY_Skinsfan;251475]Either that or Len Shapiro has some serious dirt on him that he doesn't want to get out....[/QUOTE]

He had pictures of King and Pastabelly bankrupting four "all you can eat" delis in one afternoon.

Re: The end of the world must be near: King voting for Monk for the Hall
 

if carson can get in, monk definitely deserves to be in. good for him, it's about time.