Is Scott Pioli available after the season?
 

I have not been able to find any information on the net other than Pioli's contract was set to expire after the 2006 draft.

Does anyone know if he signed a long term extension with the Patriots?

If not is there any way the Redskins can get him?

Re: Is Scott Pioli available after the season?
 

Yep, just have Snyder write the check and he's ours... Not so sure that's a good thing...

Re: Is Scott Pioli available after the season?
 

[quote=hesscl34;256794]Yep, just have Snyder write the check and he's ours... Not so sure that's a good thing...[/quote]


You wouldn't take Pioli over the braintrust currently at Redskin Park?

One thing is for sure though is if Pioli or another proven GM came here - I would only want him if he was given assurance that Dan Synder would not be involved in any way in football personelle operations other than to sign his name on the dotted line when Pioli/the unnamed professional GM tells him.

How did Synder get all the money before buying the Redskins - he outbids himself for free agents like Archuletta!

Re: Is Scott Pioli available after the season?
 

I really don't think Gibbs would be so willing to cede control of picking players. It's what he wants to do

Re: Is Scott Pioli available after the season?
 

I think all this GM talk is premature. Things are going to stay the same around Ashburn until Gibbs leaves. He likes Vinny. And what Joe wants he gets.

Re: Is Scott Pioli available after the season?
 

I wouldn't rule anything out with Gibbs. After all, he did give up control of the offense which is still pretty surprising when you think about it. If he thinks it would help, I'm sure he would consider it. That's the question though, does he see the current front office setup as a problem? Probably not.

Re: Is Scott Pioli available after the season?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;256830]I wouldn't rule anything out with Gibbs. After all, he did give up control of the offense which is still pretty surprising when you think about it. If he thinks it would help, I'm sure he would consider it. That's the question though, does he see the current front office setup as a problem? Probably not.[/QUOTE]

And he's probably kicking himself for it! But, at least he can show people that although his offense wasn't great and too conservatives (as what I heard over and over again last year) at least he's proved that it can work and probably would've worked just fine again this year with our current talent.

Re: Is Scott Pioli available after the season?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;256830]I wouldn't rule anything out with Gibbs. After all, he did give up control of the offense which is still pretty surprising when you think about it. If he thinks it would help, I'm sure he would consider it. That's the question though, does he see the current front office setup as a problem? Probably not.[/QUOTE]

I think the difference though is this. Joe Gibbs has nothing to prove anymore as a coach. People know he can lead a team to greatness on the field. He's done it numerous times and has proven to be one of the best in history at that. So him ceding control of calling plays, yeah it's a big deal but then again it's not really. But the jury is still out (though most have already cast their ballots "No") on whether he can put together a great team, particularly one that someone else could lead down the road. Gibbs is a great, loyal man and all that but remember he's also a competitor. And I think the competitor in him wants to show that he can have the same success putting together a team as he does leading a team. I really don't see Gibbs going the way of Holmgren and saying "Ok, I'll just go back to coaching only."

Re: Is Scott Pioli available after the season?
 

Let's see...
[LIST]Giving up a 3rd round draft choice for Mark Brunell who was going to be cut by Jacksonville anyway...[/LIST][LIST]Giving up Champ Bailey [B][I][U]AND[/U][/I][/B] a 2nd round choice for Clinton Portis...[/LIST][LIST]Giving up a 3rd and 4th round draft choice, plus a $10 million bonus for Brandon Lloyd who won't come anywhere near his career averages for catches...[/LIST][LIST]Giving Randle El a $10 million signing bonus when we already had 3 capable kick returners in Thrash, Betts, and Cartwright...[/LIST][LIST]Giving up a 3rd round choice for T.J. Duckett who won't get more than 50 carries for the season...[/LIST][LIST]Trading up in the '06 draft for Rocky McIntosh, losing next year's 2nd round choice when he can't even unseat Warrick Holdman or any other of the incompetent buffoons we have playing on defense...[/LIST][LIST]Adam Archuleta -- do we need an explanation about him?[/LIST][LIST]The defense is old, needs to be completely overhauled and gutted, and we haven't nearly enough draft picks next year to address a third of the needs on that side of the field.[/LIST]
If Joe Gibbs 'the GM' cannot see what sort of a wreck this team's personnel shape is in, then perhaps we have overestimated him.

Re: Is Scott Pioli available after the season?
 

[quote=Beemnseven;256837]Let's see...[LIST][*]Giving up a 3rd round draft choice for Mark Brunell who was going to be cut by Jacksonville anyway...[/LIST][LIST][*]Giving up Champ Bailey [B][I][U]AND[/U][/I][/B] a 2nd round choice for Clinton Portis...[/LIST][LIST][*]Giving up a 3rd and 4th round draft choice, plus a $10 million bonus for Brandon Lloyd who won't come anywhere near his career averages for catches...[/LIST][LIST][*]Giving Randle El a $10 million signing bonus when we already had 3 capable kick returners in Thrash, Betts, and Cartwright...[/LIST][LIST][*]Giving up a 3rd round choice for T.J. Duckett who won't get more than 50 carries for the season...[/LIST][LIST][*]Trading up in the '06 draft for Rocky McIntosh, losing next year's 2nd round choice when he can't even unseat Warrick Holdman or any other of the incompetent buffoons we have playing on defense...[/LIST][LIST][*]Adam Archuleta -- do we need an explanation about him?[/LIST][LIST][*]The defense is old, needs to be completely overhauled and gutted, and we haven't nearly enough draft picks next year to address a third of the needs on that side of the field.[/LIST]If Joe Gibbs 'the GM' cannot see what sort of a wreck this team's personnel shape is in, then perhaps we have overestimated him.[/quote]



GREAT POST....duck and cover man, duck and cover.

Re: Is Scott Pioli available after the season?
 

[quote=skinsguy;256831]And he's probably kicking himself for it! But, at least he can show people that although his offense wasn't great and too conservatives (as what I heard over and over again last year) at least he's proved that it can work and probably would've worked just fine again this year with our current talent.[/quote]

My father used to scream at the tv while I was growing up "Why are you so conservative" when talking about Gibbs. It's his game. It's how he plays. He doens't take too many chances, but he's won 3 SBs, so he's doing something right.

Re: Is Scott Pioli available after the season?
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven;256837]Let's see...
[LIST]Giving up a 3rd round draft choice for Mark Brunell who was going to be cut by Jacksonville anyway...[/LIST][LIST]Giving up Champ Bailey [B][I][U]AND[/U][/I][/B] a 2nd round choice for Clinton Portis...[/LIST][LIST]Giving up a 3rd and 4th round draft choice, plus a $10 million bonus for Brandon Lloyd who won't come anywhere near his career averages for catches...[/LIST][LIST]Giving Randle El a $10 million signing bonus when we already had 3 capable kick returners in Thrash, Betts, and Cartwright...[/LIST][LIST]Giving up a 3rd round choice for T.J. Duckett who won't get more than 50 carries for the season...[/LIST][LIST]Trading up in the '06 draft for Rocky McIntosh, losing next year's 2nd round choice when he can't even unseat Warrick Holdman or any other of the incompetent buffoons we have playing on defense...[/LIST][LIST]Adam Archuleta -- do we need an explanation about him?[/LIST][LIST]The defense is old, needs to be completely overhauled and gutted, and we haven't nearly enough draft picks next year to address a third of the needs on that side of the field.[/LIST]
If Joe Gibbs 'the GM' cannot see what sort of a wreck this team's personnel shape is in, then perhaps we have overestimated him.[/QUOTE]

Just to address these specifically.

-I think, just speculation, the reason they traded for Brunell instead of waiting for him to be released was to get him to camp before June

-I didn't and still don't have a problem overall with this deal

-El and Lloyd: I like that we went after two receivers, though I don't know these are the two we needed to go after. I think El is on a higher level overall than Thrash, Betts, or Cartwright, but-while I like Lloyd-I would have preferred a Jurevicius to counter what El and Moss bring to the table. As far as the money portion of it, I don't know how much say Gibbs has over that part of it really.

-The Duckett move still baffles me, especially with news that Betts will most likely be returning next year

-Philosophically I don't have a problem with the move-getting a player now and sitting him on the bench for a year. I don't think a draft pick needs to play right away. I think the mistake was in who they acquired. I would have rather they went after a lineman like a Winston Justice or a Marcus McNeill (again, realizing they wouldn't play in 2006).

-I just don't know what to say about the Archuleta fiasco...sigh

Re: Is Scott Pioli available after the season?
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS;256835]I think the difference though is this. Joe Gibbs has nothing to prove anymore as a coach. People know he can lead a team to greatness on the field. He's done it numerous times and has proven to be one of the best in history at that. So him ceding control of calling plays, yeah it's a big deal but then again it's not really. But the jury is still out (though most have already cast their ballots "No") on whether he can put together a great team, particularly one that someone else could lead down the road. Gibbs is a great, loyal man and all that but remember he's also a competitor. And I think the competitor in him wants to show that he can have the same success putting together a team as he does leading a team. I really don't see Gibbs going the way of Holmgren and saying "Ok, I'll just go back to coaching only."[/QUOTE]

Good post. I don't think Gibbs wants to have a boss.

Re: Is Scott Pioli available after the season?
 

Some moves haven't panned out as expected this year. But these guys aren't going to just be here for one year (well maybe Archuleta). Next season we could easily be praising some of these moves such as Lloyd and McIntosh.

Re: Is Scott Pioli available after the season?
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven;256837]Let's see...
[LIST]Giving up a 3rd round draft choice for Mark Brunell who was going to be cut by Jacksonville anyway...[/LIST][LIST]Giving up Champ Bailey [B][I][U]AND[/U][/I][/B] a 2nd round choice for Clinton Portis...[/LIST][LIST]Giving up a 3rd and 4th round draft choice, plus a $10 million bonus for Brandon Lloyd who won't come anywhere near his career averages for catches...[/LIST][LIST]Giving Randle El a $10 million signing bonus when we already had 3 capable kick returners in Thrash, Betts, and Cartwright...[/LIST][LIST]Giving up a 3rd round choice for T.J. Duckett who won't get more than 50 carries for the season...[/LIST][LIST]Trading up in the '06 draft for Rocky McIntosh, losing next year's 2nd round choice when he can't even unseat Warrick Holdman or any other of the incompetent buffoons we have playing on defense...[/LIST][LIST]Adam Archuleta -- do we need an explanation about him?[/LIST][LIST]The defense is old, needs to be completely overhauled and gutted, and we haven't nearly enough draft picks next year to address a third of the needs on that side of the field.[/LIST]
If Joe Gibbs 'the GM' cannot see what sort of a wreck this team's personnel shape is in, then perhaps we have overestimated him.[/QUOTE]

This is a good post, and I agree with everything except the last item.

We have a decent young core on defense with Taylor, Washington, and Rogers (hopefully more from him) -- and we can use our 1st pick for a legit DE. The rest of the guys are getting old, but Griffin will be a force for a while longer.

As for offensive personnel -- it's fine, with the exception of OL depth. That can be fixed relatively easily.

Overall, I think we can solve our problems and get back on track next season -- even after all the mistakes that you outlined.

HAIL!

Re: Is Scott Pioli available after the season?
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS;256855]Just to address these specifically.

-I think, just speculation, the reason they traded for Brunell instead of waiting for him to be released was to get him to camp before June

[/QUOTE]


When did they sign Brunell? It was in March wasn't it? So how many OTAs and minicamps would he have missed by not being here until June? Either way, losing a 3rd round choice for extra couple of weeks or so with the playbook is awfully expensive, especially for a veteran who's seen his fair share of playbooks.

Re: Is Scott Pioli available after the season?
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven;257391]When did they sign Brunell? It was in March wasn't it? So how many OTAs and minicamps would he have missed by not being here until June? Either way, losing a 3rd round choice for extra couple of weeks or so with the playbook is awfully expensive, especially for a veteran who's seen his fair share of playbooks.[/QUOTE]

Well he would have missed several wouldn't he? Plus remember since Gibbs was a "new" coach that year the Redskins got extra mini-camps per league rules. Personally, I liked the move to get Brunell though I think they may have been a bit too aggressive in their pursuit. I was just saying I think that was their line of thinking

Re: Is Scott Pioli available after the season?
 

[quote=TAFKAS;256835]I think the difference though is this. Joe Gibbs has nothing to prove anymore as a coach. People know he can lead a team to greatness on the field. He's done it numerous times and has proven to be one of the best in history at that. So him ceding control of calling plays, yeah it's a big deal but then again it's not really. But the jury is still out (though most have already cast their ballots "No") on whether he can put together a great team, particularly one that someone else could lead down the road. Gibbs is a great, loyal man and all that but remember he's also a competitor. And I think the competitor in him wants to show that he can have the same success putting together a team as he does leading a team. I really don't see Gibbs going the way of Holmgren and saying "Ok, I'll just go back to coaching only."[/quote]

great post. I would agree but See T. Boswell's article from today's washpost, says Gibbs is open to hiring a gm.

Re: Is Scott Pioli available after the season?
 

[QUOTE=freddyg12;257400]great post. I would agree but See T. Boswell's article from today's washpost, says Gibbs is open to hiring a gm.[/QUOTE]

I have this feeling that it will be more a ceremonial title than anything else. I mean I think the decisions will still go through Gibbs

Re: Is Scott Pioli available after the season?
 

By the way, Scott Pioli's wife's name...Dallas

Re: Is Scott Pioli available after the season?
 

[quote=Beemnseven;256837]Let's see...[LIST][*]Giving up a 3rd round draft choice for Mark Brunell who was going to be cut by Jacksonville anyway...[/LIST][LIST][*]Giving up Champ Bailey [B][I][U]AND[/U][/I][/B] a 2nd round choice for Clinton Portis...[/LIST][LIST][*]Giving up a 3rd and 4th round draft choice, plus a $10 million bonus for Brandon Lloyd who won't come anywhere near his career averages for catches...[/LIST][LIST][*]Giving Randle El a $10 million signing bonus when we already had 3 capable kick returners in Thrash, Betts, and Cartwright...[/LIST][LIST][*]Giving up a 3rd round choice for T.J. Duckett who won't get more than 50 carries for the season...[/LIST][LIST][*]Trading up in the '06 draft for Rocky McIntosh, losing next year's 2nd round choice when he can't even unseat Warrick Holdman or any other of the incompetent buffoons we have playing on defense...[/LIST][LIST][*]Adam Archuleta -- do we need an explanation about him?[/LIST][LIST][*]The defense is old, needs to be completely overhauled and gutted, and we haven't nearly enough draft picks next year to address a third of the needs on that side of the field.[/LIST]If Joe Gibbs 'the GM' cannot see what sort of a wreck this team's personnel shape is in, then perhaps we have overestimated him.[/quote]

nascar is always an option and to me thats where it,s at now not the nfl..todays salary cap era and todays players don,t really mix to well with the way joe gibbs does things.(i,m not given up by any means).but a GM is necessary cause i would much rather see gibbs the coach take full control of playcaling with some new ideas to go along with his philosphy.
this team still today has too much baggage it needs to get rid of and in the front office and on the field.....

Re: Is Scott Pioli available after the season?
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven;256837]Let's see...
[LIST]Giving up a 3rd round draft choice for Mark Brunell who was going to be cut by Jacksonville anyway...[/LIST][LIST]Giving up Champ Bailey [B][I][U]AND[/U][/I][/B] a 2nd round choice for Clinton Portis...[/LIST][LIST]Giving up a 3rd and 4th round draft choice, plus a $10 million bonus for Brandon Lloyd who won't come anywhere near his career averages for catches...[/LIST][LIST]Giving Randle El a $10 million signing bonus when we already had 3 capable kick returners in Thrash, Betts, and Cartwright...[/LIST][LIST]Giving up a 3rd round choice for T.J. Duckett who won't get more than 50 carries for the season...[/LIST][LIST]Trading up in the '06 draft for Rocky McIntosh, losing next year's 2nd round choice when he can't even unseat Warrick Holdman or any other of the incompetent buffoons we have playing on defense...[/LIST][LIST]Adam Archuleta -- do we need an explanation about him?[/LIST][LIST]The defense is old, needs to be completely overhauled and gutted, and we haven't nearly enough draft picks next year to address a third of the needs on that side of the field.[/LIST]
If Joe Gibbs 'the GM' cannot see what sort of a wreck this team's personnel shape is in, then perhaps we have overestimated him.[/QUOTE]

Nice post. But, in fairness, there have been significant good moves also:

- Passing on Jevon Kearse to sign Marcus Washington AND Cornelius Griffin.

- Trading picks to move up and obtain Cooley (Would he have been available? It's a crap shoot - but given his ability, certainly worth what we traded).

- Sean Taylor over Kellen Winslow.

- No signings last year except Rabach who has been a solid, if not stellar, player.

- Finding Golston in the latter rounds.

While I agree that it seems the misses have far outnumbered the hits, the hits have been pretty solid. Without a team by team analysis, its kinda unfair to say "We suck" in the personnel dept. The "Patriot Model" has been successful b/c they have had solid personnel and good coaching - but what about the other 30 teams? What is their track record (and PLEASE don't cite me the Eagles - When they win a Superbowl, let's talk).

My own preference would be for Gibbs to step back further and become the Jack Kent Cooke part of a management triumvarite (Gibbs, when appropriate, would then turn to Danny and say - "I need a check" to which Danny says "Yes sir!"). A head coach and general manager would be appointed, they would duke it out over personnel and Gibbs would make the final call.

Not saying that would happen, but, if Gibbs proposed it, Snyder would make it so.

Re: Is Scott Pioli available after the season?
 

[quote=TAFKAS;256799]I really don't think Gibbs would be so willing to cede control of picking players. It's what he wants to do[/quote]
i dont know if coach gibbs would stop something that he thought would make the redskins better

Re: Is Scott Pioli available after the season?
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven;256837]Let's see...
[LIST]Giving up a 3rd round draft choice for Mark Brunell who was going to be cut by Jacksonville anyway...[/LIST][LIST]Giving up Champ Bailey [B][I][U]AND[/U][/I][/B] a 2nd round choice for Clinton Portis...[/LIST][LIST]Giving up a 3rd and 4th round draft choice, plus a $10 million bonus for Brandon Lloyd who won't come anywhere near his career averages for catches...[/LIST][LIST]Giving Randle El a $10 million signing bonus when we already had 3 capable kick returners in Thrash, Betts, and Cartwright...[/LIST][LIST]Giving up a 3rd round choice for T.J. Duckett who won't get more than 50 carries for the season...[/LIST][LIST]Trading up in the '06 draft for Rocky McIntosh, losing next year's 2nd round choice when he can't even unseat Warrick Holdman or any other of the incompetent buffoons we have playing on defense...[/LIST][LIST]Adam Archuleta -- do we need an explanation about him?[/LIST][LIST]The defense is old, needs to be completely overhauled and gutted, and we haven't nearly enough draft picks next year to address a third of the needs on that side of the field.[/LIST]
If Joe Gibbs 'the GM' cannot see what sort of a wreck this team's personnel shape is in, then perhaps we have overestimated him.[/QUOTE]


MB saved HOF Coach Gibbs life the night they first met. HOF Saved!

CP - In excess of 1500 yards each of his first two seasons, with a PO win last year.

BL aka. Jr., give me a break, it's LDS's money! His team!

ARE - See BL above.

Rocky - He's a rook! Give the FO and GW a break. GW spots the rooks.
(Exception: Goldston, due to injuries)

AA was displaced by a rook on his last team. I knew it when the FO signed him in error. NO GM running the B&G ranch, however, and again, it's LDS's money. OK, a mistake on this one, but I knew it then in FA. Now we all know it.

D needs to be healthy all year. Problem solved. With Goldston, Montgomery, Rogers, and ST, we have youth. Health is needed, not gutting.

How do you "overestimate" a three time SB Champion, HOF Coach?

Re: Is Scott Pioli available after the season?
 

I really think that if Gibbs thinks a GM can come in and help, he will do it.

He's always open to trying new things if he thinks it's for the better of the team.

Re: Is Scott Pioli available after the season?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;257604]I really think that if Gibbs thinks a GM can come in and help, he will do it.

He's always open to trying new things if he thinks it's for the better of the team.[/QUOTE]

I'm not so sure, I think he's trying to graduate to the front office when he gets done coaching. Maybe though, I just don't know.

Re: Is Scott Pioli available after the season?
 

Yes, there have been some good pickups via the draft and FA but there have been alot of very questionable moves where we overpay and hurt our team.

I really think Joe G's will think long and hard about bringing in a GM over the winter. As the article says, he'll do anything at this point.

Re: Is Scott Pioli available after the season?
 

[quote=Bill B;256793]I have not been able to find any information on the net other than Pioli's contract was set to expire after the 2006 draft.

Does anyone know if he signed a long term extension with the Patriots?

If not is there any way the Redskins can get him?[/quote]

I'm not sure signing Pioli would be a good thing. If a GM is gonna be brought in, i want one that has had experience with Gibbs and the way he works, so he understands the way Gibbs is trying to build his team, instead of some guy coming in and telling Gibbs how things are gonna be done.

Re: Is Scott Pioli available after the season?
 

[quote=Beemnseven;256837]Let's see...[LIST][*]Giving up a 3rd round draft choice for Mark Brunell who was going to be cut by Jacksonville anyway...[/LIST][LIST][*]Giving up Champ Bailey [B][I][U]AND[/U][/I][/B] a 2nd round choice for Clinton Portis...[/LIST][LIST][*]Giving up a 3rd and 4th round draft choice, plus a $10 million bonus for Brandon Lloyd who won't come anywhere near his career averages for catches...[/LIST][LIST][*]Giving Randle El a $10 million signing bonus when we already had 3 capable kick returners in Thrash, Betts, and Cartwright...[/LIST][LIST][*]Giving up a 3rd round choice for T.J. Duckett who won't get more than 50 carries for the season...[/LIST][LIST][*]Trading up in the '06 draft for Rocky McIntosh, losing next year's 2nd round choice when he can't even unseat Warrick Holdman or any other of the incompetent buffoons we have playing on defense...[/LIST][LIST][*]Adam Archuleta -- do we need an explanation about him?[/LIST][LIST][*]The defense is old, needs to be completely overhauled and gutted, and we haven't nearly enough draft picks next year to address a third of the needs on that side of the field.[/LIST]If Joe Gibbs 'the GM' cannot see what sort of a wreck this team's personnel shape is in, then perhaps we have overestimated him.[/quote]

How about letting Ryan Clark and Walt Harris go.

Re: Is Scott Pioli available after the season?
 

[QUOTE=61cad;257670]How about letting Ryan Clark and Walt Harris go.[/QUOTE]

Clearly letting Ryan Clark go was a mistake for a lot of reasons. As for Walt, I don't think he counts as a mistake (there is a whole other thread on this topic). Just about everyone was ready to run him out on a rail last year and he was pretty craptacular at times. And on the other hand, how about the Coles for Moss trade? Anyone want to undo that one?

Again, the front office has had its hits and misses with the misses seeming to outnumber the hits in quantity and noticeability. I still think that we the FO (under Gibbs) has done some good things and that, while this year was clearly a step back, Gibbs did seem to learn from year one to year two. Maybe he will learn make a similar step forward next offseason.

As a final thought: Although this year's class of FA may be the worst since the Bruce Smith, et al. signings. It was still a different kind of bad in that all the guys signed to the expensive contracts were young guys. If they had panned out, we would of had good young talent in its prime for 3-4 years.

Re: Is Scott Pioli available after the season?
 

What if, after problems in player personnel since his return, the Redskins decide that a traditional general manager -- such as Bobby Beathard or Charley Casserly in the old days -- is needed? "I have no problems with any of that. I changed a lot last year," said Gibbs, who in essence fired himself after last season as the Redskins' play-caller and hired Al Saunders as associate head coach, handing over a task for which Gibbs was famous. "I'm not afraid of new ideas."

Re: Is Scott Pioli available after the season?
 

Getting Scott Pioli would basically be what the Redskins do on the free agent market, which would be go out, and get the best player available in their minds. That, as we all know doesn't work out. I'd rather see the Redskins go after some blue collar guy that does a consistently good job.

Re: Is Scott Pioli available after the season?
 

I would think most on the board would agree the moves the FO have made under Gibbs 2 have been made so the Redskins can win now - handing over huge signing bonuses, trading away multiple draft picks, etc. and this is a sign of a team gunning for the super bowl trophy at all costs.

I believe this philiosphy is due to the fact (as Wilbon wrote in his column this week) that the coach is also the GM and therefore is mostly thinking about winning next week and is not worried about the long term future of the franchise with regard to draft picks, salary cap structure, etc.

I am not trying to run Gibbs the coach out of town - the guy is an amazing coach who knows what he is doing in this department and is second to none in my book.
But as far as having him the GM as well - I think this is similar to goverment with no checks and balances. We need these positions to be seperate so the long-term viability of on field success can be sustained.

Does anyone else get tired of the team having to rip apart the roster when all the salaries escalate in the 3rd/4th year and having to rebuild? What about all the dead cap space the team will have to contend with as well as releasing fees? To me this is why the Patriots have been able to field a team that wins over the course of the decade (not just one or two years. Pioli understands that huge bonuses should only be given to a select few and many parts are replaceable if you got a scouting department that can find young, hungry cheap talent in the draft.

Say what you want about the current regime and that things will turn around, but wait till the team has to renegotiate just to get under the cap, cut some other guys and again be the leaders in dead cap space.

Will the team ever learn you sustain long term success by biulding within through the draft and you plug an expensive free agent or two at most?

Re: Is Scott Pioli available after the season?
 

[QUOTE=JoeRedskin;257449]
- Passing on Jevon Kearse to sign Marcus Washington AND Cornelius Griffin.

- Trading picks to move up and obtain Cooley (Would he have been available? It's a crap shoot - but given his ability, certainly worth what we traded).

- Sean Taylor over Kellen Winslow.

- No signings last year except Rabach who has been a solid, if not stellar, player.

- Finding Golston in the latter rounds.

While I agree that it seems the misses have far outnumbered the hits, the hits have been pretty solid. Without a team by team analysis, its kinda unfair to say "We suck" in the personnel dept. The "Patriot Model" has been successful b/c they have had solid personnel and good coaching - but what about the other 30 teams? What is their track record (and PLEASE don't cite me the Eagles - When they win a Superbowl, let's talk).[/QUOTE]

Well, I would disagree on several of your points:

-- It's beginning to look like we might have already squeazed out the best that Cornelius Griffin has to offer. He’s not getting nearly the penetration he used to, and his career appears to be going exactly the way it went in NY; strong early on, but fading fast. Of all the acquisitions though, he’s been the one that the front office got right. Well just have to see how much longer the right decision lasts. Marcus Washington looks good when the defensive line is performing well, but like everyone else this season, he’s practically nowhere to be found.

–- Chris Cooley -- this one’s going to put me in the doghouse here at The Warpath, but I’m not quite ready to start carving his bust for the Hall of Fame the way others apparently are. Was he worth two picks? I don’t think so. He’s a good player, but why is it that this team has to give up two picks for one player, and wind up with marginal overall results?

Sean Taylor over Kellen Winslow? Okaaay. That was a flip of the coin for most teams, and we weren’t really looking for a tight end anyway. If winning on a 50/50 shot represents an astute player personnel move, I guess we should take all the positives we can with this crowd.

–- I wouldn’t call Rabach “stellar” by any stretch. He’s usually the culprit when the flags start flying on holding calls. He’s serviceable, but don’t get your hopes up for any Pro Bowl votes. As far as I can tell, it’s ‘ho-hum’ on Rabach.

–- Golston -– I’d love to think we’ve found a diamond in the rough on a late, 2nd day pick. I think we’ll have to wait and see. He’s gotten a fair amount of playing time this year, but only because of the annual neglect this front office pays to the D-line. But hey, Rock Cartwright was the last late 2nd day pick that panned out – so even broken clocks are right twice a day.

The only measure of good personnel decision making is Super Bowl wins? That’s a bit unfair don’t you think? Four straight NFC Championship games mean nothing in your mind? In Gibbs' first go round, he won 3 Super Bowls in 12 years – but you also have to count the other seasons where his teams were consistently competitive, and bound for the playoffs at the very least. I’d say the Chargers have done a pretty darn good job “building through the draft”. It took a while for the Bengals, and they might have taken a step back this season, but at least they’re in the right direction. It pains me to include the Cowboys, but that defensive front seven will be a nightmare to deal with for years to come, and they’re getting the job done with young players, farmed from the college ranks, with very manageable contracts. Julius Jones and Marion Barber come to mind.

The thing is, all you have to do is point to the score board with the Skins. In the three years Gibbs has been calling the shots, he’s 20-24. And the needle is pointed south. How many 8-8 seasons or worse will it take to prove that high priced free agents looking for their golden parachutes aren’t translating into success?

Re: Is Scott Pioli available after the season?
 

[QUOTE=backrow;257485]MB saved HOF Coach Gibbs life the night they first met. HOF Saved!

CP - In excess of 1500 yards each of his first two seasons, with a PO win last year.

BL aka. Jr., give me a break, it's LDS's money! His team!

ARE - See BL above.

Rocky - He's a rook! Give the FO and GW a break. GW spots the rooks.
(Exception: Goldston, due to injuries)

AA was displaced by a rook on his last team. I knew it when the FO signed him in error. NO GM running the B&G ranch, however, and again, it's LDS's money. OK, a mistake on this one, but I knew it then in FA. Now we all know it.

D needs to be healthy all year. Problem solved. With Goldston, Montgomery, Rogers, and ST, we have youth. Health is needed, not gutting.

How do you "overestimate" a three time SB Champion, HOF Coach?[/QUOTE]

Portis' 1500 yards got us what, exactly?

And nobody questions that it's LDS's money, or that it's his team. But that money does count against the cap. Could that have something to do with why there's no one we can turn to in the secondary but Mike Rumph and Ade Jimoh? Or why someone named Todd Wade might play in place of Jon Jansen this weekend? Meanwhile, Randle El, David Patten, and James Thrash will be keeping the seats warm when the offense is in 2 wideout formations (which is usually the case, except when it's time for a 5-yard loss on a double reverse?)

Sure it's his money. But can we at least demand that he be more smart about spending it?

Re: Is Scott Pioli available after the season?
 

Doesn't look like Pioli will be available anyway

[url=http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:DtgZTXOOanQJ:ap.lancasteronline.com/4/fbn_patriots_pioli+scott+pioli+contract+extension&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=28]LancasterOnline.com: Key Patriots Exec Signs Contract Extension[/url]

Re: Is Scott Pioli available after the season?
 

the reason for joe gibbs superbowl teams was not only joe's expertise in coaching but bobby beathards expertise in player talent evaluation . not taking anything away from joe at all he had a gm in the 80's bobby beatherd was the man then charley casserly followed and made some good moves but over all he was waaaayyyy lesss that bobby was...

Re: Is Scott Pioli available after the season?
 

[quote=mooby;257685]Getting Scott Pioli would basically be what the Redskins do on the free agent market, which would be go out, and get the best player available in their minds. That, as we all know doesn't work out. I'd rather see the Redskins go after some blue collar guy that does a consistently good job.[/quote] Good point . But ,, the problem is GM Gibbs likes the " Flashy " guys too much . He did mention after he retired that he would make a move for Deion like the Saints did for R. Williams . I really like Gibbs , but he is too willing to trade the ranch for one guy , and unless that guy really is a franchise player you get burned . We traded two 1st rd picks for Riggs < way too steep > and threw away two 1st rounders for Desmond . I agree with the BLUE COLLAR players and I think a GM would work well with coach .

Re: Is Scott Pioli available after the season?
 

[quote=TAFKAS;257732]Doesn't look like Pioli will be available anyway

[URL="http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:DtgZTXOOanQJ:ap.lancasteronline.com/4/fbn_patriots_pioli+scott+pioli+contract+extension&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=28"]LancasterOnline.com: Key Patriots Exec Signs Contract Extension[/URL][/quote]
tafkas, i love you quoting my local newspaper

Re: Is Scott Pioli available after the season?
 

[quote=TAFKAS;257732]Doesn't look like Pioli will be available anyway

[URL="http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:DtgZTXOOanQJ:ap.lancasteronline.com/4/fbn_patriots_pioli+scott+pioli+contract+extension&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=28"]LancasterOnline.com: Key Patriots Exec Signs Contract Extension[/URL][/quote]


It be interesting to see when that extension expires since the article was in July 2005. I would love to see him here but one thing to also consider is not only would a new GM have to work with Gibbs, but he would also have to be able to work with Synder - no easy task considering the patience (or lack of) that Synder shows with most of his employees.