DB help next year ?
 

Any ideas what we can do to improve the db position next year. With Rogers still being pretty young, do we risk drafting one, or try to get a vet who is younger and healthier than Springs. Can't rely on Springs to play 16 games any longer. Anyone have ideas what vets might come available?

Re: DB help next year ?
 

I think the top two names out there are Nate Clements and Asante Samuel

Re: DB help next year ?
 

When Rogers and Springs are healthy, they're a great combo. We need MORE help at FS since Arch was a bust. True an upgrade or backup CB would be GREAT for when our 2 guys get hurt, but we need another safety more than another CB in my opinion.

Getting both positions would be great though.

Re: DB help next year ?
 

I'm liking the Springs to Safety move. Let he and Vincent (if he's coming back) platoon back there. Solid veteran leadership for ST. Bring in another CB like Clements or Samuel to support Rogers. I've changed my perception of Rogers as of late due to the Tom Friend article. In fact, I'm giving the entire secondary the rest of the season and offseason through next year's pre-season to prove to me that they are capable unit. I think it looks like chemistry is a huge factor between the CBs and the safeties, both players on the field and coaching on the sidelines.

Re: DB help next year ?
 

Samuel is having good year, I think he has 7 ints or something. Both he and Clements will be top dollar.

Re: DB help next year ?
 

Well, according to the latest announcement, the salary cap is going to be ~116M next year. According to our salary cap sheets, we have about 105M committed.

W/ 11M to play with (before any restructuring/cuts) we should be able to sign Dockery, Betts/Duckett (doubtfull we keep both) and still have plenty left to make a play for clements or samuels and put Springs at safety.

Or we could just cut Arch and eat his salary.

Re: DB help next year ?
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;257061]Or we could just cut Arch and eat his salary.[/quote]

I think that's a high probability.

Re: DB help next year ?
 

But who will be the captain of the punt team?

Re: DB help next year ?
 

If it were nobody, it wouldn't be a downgrade.

Re: DB help next year ?
 

[quote=ArtMonkDrillz;257066]But who will be the captain of the punt team?[/quote]

I'll volunteer, I'd come alot cheaper too.

Just give me a cool $1M and I'm theirs.

Re: DB help next year ?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;257062]I think that's a high probability.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I think he's gone too, but, rather than eat the entire thing this year, I think the more likely scenario is that he either:

a) Agrees to a buy-out like LaVar (who has, again, opened his mouth and shown that, just b/c you CAN form a complete sentence, doesn't mean that you SHOULD);

b) gets cut as a June 1 cut and split the salary cap hit;

c) kept for a year but simply as an inactive and then cut him as a June 1, 2008 cut. (essentially, by occupying a roster spot, you spread the hit out over three years. Hell, if it were up to me, I would even tell him that this is what we were going to do and say "You will be required to come to practice and meetings, but, unless required by injuries, you will be inactive for all games. If this is okay by you fine. Otherwise let's talk buy-out.")

9M is a big hit to take all at once and, although we can, I am betting they will try and manipulate the numbers that will allow them some leeway to make some aquisitions. Plus, taking the 9M hit would probably preclude resigning Dock and Betts/Duckett.

Re: DB help next year ?
 

I would not draft a CB. that is one area I would bring in a FA. I dont know if they will release Arch. My guess is they can see how he progresses in the offseason and pre-season. It will cost them less of a cap hit next offseason than this offseason. (i think) Springs moving over may be good coverage wise, but I am not sure about the run support part of it. I guess it can be worked out to where he is in coverage most of the time and let Taylor roam around.

Re: DB help next year ?
 

[quote=724Skinsfan;257056]I'm liking the Springs to Safety move. Let he and Vincent (if he's coming back) platoon back there. Solid veteran leadership for ST. Bring in another CB like Clements or Samuel to support Rogers. I've changed my perception of Rogers as of late due to the Tom Friend article. In fact, I'm giving the entire secondary the rest of the season and offseason through next year's pre-season to prove to me that they are capable unit. I think it looks like chemistry is a huge factor between the CBs and the safeties, both players on the field and coaching on the sidelines.[/quote]

[FONT='Lucida Sans'][FONT=Verdana]I like Springs at FS, but that would mean ST at strong safety. While he would excel closer to the line, I think he’s still growing into the FS position & it gives him more opportunities to make hits & roam to the ball. I guess if they employ a cover 2 it wouldn’t matter as much though.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT='Lucida Sans'][FONT=Verdana][SIZE=2]We need to draft a young cb if we can’t get one in fa.[/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT]

Re: DB help next year ?
 

I think Springs as a safety would be a terrific move IF we can then get a guarranteed No.1 corner. Sorry, Rogers just looks like a solid number 2 corner to me (A slightly - and I do mean slightly - more physical corner than Smoot).

If we can get a solid no. 1 corner then it seems to me that Springs has the perfect skill set to compliment Taylor - better in coverage, good blitzer, and a solid, if not spectacular tackler.

Re: DB help next year ?
 

[QUOTE=JoeRedskin;257061]Well, according to the latest announcement, the salary cap is going to be ~116M next year.[/QUOTE]

Actually the cap will be $109M next year and $116M in 2008.

[url=http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sports/16181357.htm]MiamiHerald.com | 12/07/2006 | Current cap near limit[/url]

"And even though the cap will be $109 million next season and the NFL announced Wednesday it will be a whopping $116 million in 2008..."

Re: DB help next year ?
 

Oops - My bad. Thanks CC.

Re: DB help next year ?
 

Let's not forget about Prieoleau though. And what do you guys think of Tory James?

Re: DB help next year ?
 

Do we really want another 30+ year old DB?

Re: DB help next year ?
 

Here's what we have now:

[U]Under contract thru 2007[/U]
Sean Taylor S
Adam Archuleta S
Pierson Prioleau S
Reed Doughty S
Mike Rumph DB
Troy Vincent DB
Shawn Springs CB
Carlos Rogers CB

[u]2007 free agents[/u]
Vernon Fox DB
Adebola Jimoh CB
Kenny Wright CB

Despite our recent FA busts I'd still like to bring in a top corner (ie Clements). I'd move Springs to S. That way we'd have Clements and Rogers at the corners and Taylor and Springs at safety. Prioleau, Fox, and The Ade can come off the bench, and Springs can go back to CB in certain situations or in case of injuries.

I'd like to keep Vincent but he's expensive at $1.5M for 2007. Maybe if he resigns for something closer to the vet min ($425K). I think we cut AA, and then fill in the remaining slots with the Doughty, Rumph, Wrights of the world.

Re: DB help next year ?
 

Ade has proven his worth on special teams. but he must have taken a step back wards in pass coverage. as lousy as the skins secondary has played this season, jimoh has hardly stepped on the field

Re: DB help next year ?
 

[quote=CrazyCanuck;257088]Here's what we have now:

[U]Under contract thru 2007[/U]
Sean Taylor S
Adam Archuleta S
Pierson Prioleau S
Reed Doughty S
Mike Rumph DB
Troy Vincent DB
Shawn Springs CB
Carlos Rogers CB

[U]2007 free agents[/U]
Vernon Fox DB
Adebola Jimoh CB
Kenny Wright CB

Despite our recent FA busts I'd still like to bring in a top corner (ie Clements). I'd move Springs to S. That way we'd have Clements and Rogers at the corners and Taylor and Springs at safety. Prioleau, Fox, and The Ade can come off the bench, and Springs can go back to CB in certain situations or in case of injuries.

I'd like to keep Vincent but he's expensive at $1.5M for 2007. Maybe if he resigns for something closer to the vet min ($425K). I think we cut AA, and then fill in the remaining slots with the Doughty, Rumph, Wrights of the world.[/quote]

How will cutting AA impact things? Is it a bullet we can afford to bite? To me it seems like it's inevitable, I just hope it doesn't handcuff us too much.

Re: DB help next year ?
 

About the cap, the skins anticipated these increases--they back-loaded contracts to 2007 and 2008. So we'll have some cash in the next couple of years, especially if we get some decent restructuring from our vets.

But without a GM, all the money in the world aint gonna help...

It sucks to have to be investing in the DB yet again--Taylor, Springs, Rogers, AA, not to mention the long list of scrubs, ahve all been picked up in recent years, and we've ended up with a bad secondary. We have needs elsewhere as well, so it would be nice to not have to keep throwing cash in that direction!

Re: DB help next year ?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;257111]How will cutting AA impact things? Is it a bullet we can afford to bite? To me it seems like it's inevitable, I just hope it doesn't handcuff us too much.[/QUOTE]

He'd be a $9M deadcap hit if we cut him before June 1. If we cut him after June 1 we'd take a $1.833M deadcap hit in '07 and a $7.167M deadcap hit in '08.

$9M seems like a lot to take on our 2007 cap, but god knows it wouldn't be the first time. I think a post June 1 cut makes more sense, especially with the $116M cap figure for 2008.

Re: DB help next year ?
 

I'd hate to see the Ade become available on the free agent market. I'd hate to add him to the list of core redskins that got away Pierce, Smoot, the Ade??

Hmmm...I wonder if he is the "mole."

Re: DB help next year ?
 

I feel like, if we hire a GM, it needs to be someone who knows the redskin organization well, and knows the current players they have, and their strengths, weaknesses and future pluses and minuses. I feel like bringing in a random GM from another organization would be like starting over again, since HE too would have to get to know his players just like the process Gibbs had to go through. Anyone know of anyone who suits that description???

Re: DB help next year ?
 

[QUOTE=JWsleep;257116]It sucks to have to be investing in the DB yet again--Taylor, Springs, Rogers, AA, not to mention the long list of scrubs, ahve all been picked up in recent years, and we've ended up with a bad secondary. We have needs elsewhere as well, so it would be nice to not have to keep throwing cash in that direction![/QUOTE]

I totally agree. Unfortunately I think this year showed us how bad things can get with a weak secondary. I'd like to rebuild the D from back to front. I'd gladly take a "bend, don't break" defense over what we had this year.

Re: DB help next year ?
 

[quote=724Skinsfan;257067]If it were nobody, it wouldn't be a downgrade.[/quote]

THAT'S humor

Re: DB help next year ?
 

[QUOTE=The Zimmermans;257123]I feel like, if we hire a GM, it needs to be someone who knows the redskin organization well, and knows the current players they have, and their strengths, weaknesses and future pluses and minuses. I feel like bringing in a random GM from another organization would be like starting over again, since HE too would have to get to know his players just like the process Gibbs had to go through. Anyone know of anyone who suits that description???[/QUOTE]

Did you just move? Weren't you in Cabin John just a few hours ago? Anyhow I don't know the answer to your question specifically. I do think, however, that just like I suggested maybe we need to critique at a lower level as far as the coaches we should consider doing the same at the front office level. Yes it's Gibbs' job as President to know what's happening as well as Ceratto's (as whatever his title is), but he's certainly getting a lot of his info on players (strengths, weaknesses, etc.) from the scouting department. So, do we have the wrong scouts in place?

Isn't Don Warren a scout?

Re: DB help next year ?
 

I thought Don Warren was a head coach at a high school?

Anyway, you want DB help next year and get the most out of current Redskins DB's? Easy answer....Bring in a 5-6 year veteran and...(this is the best part)....Hire #28 as the new Secondaries coach!

Re: DB help next year ?
 

I'd love to bring Vernon Dean in as DB coach. He's got plenty of experience as a coach and he knows the Redskins winning tradition under Gibbs

Re: DB help next year ?
 

[quote=TAFKAS;257133]I'd love to bring Vernon Dean in as DB coach. He's got plenty of experience as a coach and he knows the Redskins winning tradition under Gibbs[/quote]


We are about to become bitter enemies.

Re: DB help next year ?
 

[QUOTE=JoeRedskin;257061]
Or we could just cut Arch and eat his salary.[/QUOTE]

it would cost a lot more to cut him (7 million more) than to keep him (2 or 3 mil i think)

Re: DB help next year ?
 

[QUOTE=724Skinsfan;257134]We are about to become bitter enemies.[/QUOTE]

What do you mean "about" kemosabe?

Re: DB help next year ?
 

[quote=TAFKAS;257136]What do you mean "about" kemosabe?[/quote]


I like a countdown before a person is added to my list.

3...2...1

There now we are bitter enemies.

Re: DB help next year ?
 

lol.

Anyways, am I the only one disappointed that Walt Harris just won NFC Defensive Player of the Month for November after the way he played? He already has 6 interceptions. Why does every player seem to get better when they leave the redskins?

Re: DB help next year ?
 

[quote=mooby;257168]lol.

Anyways, am I the only one disappointed that Walt Harris just won NFC Defensive Player of the Month for November after the way he played? He already has 6 interceptions. Why does every player seem to get better when they leave the redskins?[/quote] No . Another note , the Jaguars 3rd rd pick , a LB , just won def. rookie of the month ,,,, we used a 2nd, 6th and traded an extra 2nd rd pick for Rocky, why is he not playing . Hope this team stops throwing away our f - draft picks every year !

Re: DB help next year ?
 

Carlos Rogers will become an excellent corner in the future, I'd like one person to name me a 2nd year 1st string corner, you cant because there isnt one. I think we should keep Springs at CB next year, hire a quality and young corner that is a solid player, but still has a little bit of development to do, who is also young (preferably just getting out of rookie contract) to a 4-5 year deal, and next year he will just be filling in for Springs when he gets injured. Springs is still a good corner, I haven't seen him mess up bad all year. We should also sign a young decent safety (someone similar to Ryan Clark) who has good potential to have good chemistry with Taylor. I think This is the best route to take because we are building a core group of young guys that will hopefully gain alot of chemistry over the years without spending a boatload of money. I also don't think that Springs will be good with Taylor, I can't explain why in reasons, I'm just not feeling it will be a good mix, I think it will be similar to how Vincient and Taylor mixed, not good but not horrible.

Re: DB help next year ?
 

[QUOTE=BeastsoftheNFCeast;257171]Carlos Rogers will become an excellent corner in the future, I'd like one person to name me a 2nd year 1st string corner, you cant because there isnt one. I think we should keep Springs at CB next year, hire a quality and young corner that is a solid player, but still has a little bit of development to do, who is also young (preferably just getting out of rookie contract) to a 4-5 year deal, and next year he will just be filling in for Springs when he gets injured. Springs is still a good corner, I haven't seen him mess up bad all year. We should also sign a young decent safety (someone similar to Ryan Clark) who has good potential to have good chemistry with Taylor. I think This is the best route to take because we are building a core group of young guys that will hopefully gain alot of chemistry over the years without spending a boatload of money. I also don't think that Springs will be good with Taylor, I can't explain why in reasons, I'm just not feeling it will be a good mix, I think it will be similar to how Vincient and Taylor mixed, not good but not horrible.[/QUOTE]

pacman jones
antrell rolle maybe
im sure there are some others