Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

[url=http://coveringtheredskins.blogspot.com/]Covering The Redskins[/url]

Gibbs talked openly about the front office structure of the team again saying he likes the current format of which the team selects players.. Gibbs refused to call himself the GM, saying by title being the Team President, he expects to receive the criticism for decisions made in the offseason, some he finally characterized as mistakes that will be re-evaluated in the coming offseason.. Again, he did not close the door on hiring a GM, but he says he likes the selection by committee format used currently by the team and hinted he would prefer to stick with this plan on picking people.. Essentially, it sounds as if unless Dan Snyder asks for Gibbs to hire a true GM, there will not be that kind of addition this offseason.


ICEBURG DEAD AHEAD!!!!!!!!!

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

I want the system to stay the same because it messed up last year. (I know that sounds crazy) I think that they should now have a better feel for what works and what doesnt and what they need to do. Gibbs isnt stupid, he probably has learned from his mistakes.

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

We need a GM. Plain and simple.

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

I think any changes that will be made should be made to the scouting department. Those are the guys going to the different games (pro and college) each week and analyzing potential player pick-ups. Spending the money is not as big an issue as how we spend the money.

I know it won't satisfy people if the same ultimate decision makers are in place but I think whatever "problems" there are with the front office structure are really more at the root level. Hiring a GM would be fine, but my guess is it would be nothing more than a ceremonial move to placate all the complainers.

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS;259980] Hiring a GM would be fine, but my guess is it would be nothing more than a ceremonial move to placate all the complainers.[/QUOTE]

Kind of like hiring an offensive coordinator?

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS;259980]I think any changes that will be made should be made to the scouting department. Those are the guys going to the different games (pro and college) each week and analyzing potential player pick-ups. Spending the money is not as big an issue as how we spend the money.

I know it won't satisfy people if the same ultimate decision makers are in place but I think whatever "problems" there are with the front office structure are really more at the root level. Hiring a GM would be fine, but my guess is it would be nothing more than a ceremonial move to placate all the complainers.[/QUOTE]

OK, how about hiring a GM with decision making abilities beyond Mr. Gibbs?

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

[QUOTE=skinsguy;259984]Kind of like hiring an offensive coordinator?[/QUOTE]

I'm calling it right now: Feb. 12, 2007, Redskins Park-The Washington Redskins announced today that they have hired former Titans Player Personnel Director Rich Snead to serve as Associate Team President-Free Agency/Draft

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;259986]OK, how about hiring a GM with decision making abilities beyond Mr. Gibbs?[/QUOTE]

I just don't see Gibbs giving up control there.

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

Everyone is bitching about how the Redskins need a GM, but who is to say that we would get a GM that is worth a damn? I mean look at Matt Millen in Detroit...

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS;259988]I just don't see Gibbs giving up control there.[/QUOTE]

You're right, but I don't think Gibbs has the skills he used to have back in the day for picking talent. I hope I'm wrong. I'd just like to see a GM to compliment Gibbs, not replace him.

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

[QUOTE=Redskins8588;259990]Everyone is bitching about how the Redskins need a GM, but who is to say that we would get a GM that is worth a damn? I mean look at Matt Millen in Detroit...[/QUOTE]

True, very true. It's kind of sad when you see the Lions front office and realize the top decision makers are ex-Redskins, Matt Millen and Martin Mayhew.

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS;259997]True, very true. It's kind of sad when you see the Lions front office and realize the top decision makers are ex-Redskins, Matt Millen and Martin Mayhew.[/QUOTE]

There are always those young "go-getters" that are behind current GMs with titles like "assistant ass kisser". They are ready to show their stuff, and worth a shot.

Theo Epstein would agree.

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;259998]There are always those young "go-getters" that are behind current GMs with titles like "assistant ass kisser". They are ready to show their stuff, and worth a shot.

Theo Epstein would agree.[/QUOTE]

Don't you think that they are behind the current GMs for a reason?!?!

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

[QUOTE=Redskins8588;259999]Don't you think that they are behind the current GMs for a reason?!?![/QUOTE]

Absolutely, but most contracts state they can leave for a better position. IE: GM spot.
If no contract was drawn up, then they are free to accept offers.

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

[quote=paulskinsfan;259969][URL="http://coveringtheredskins.blogspot.com/"]Covering The Redskins[/URL]

Gibbs talked openly about the front office structure of the team again saying he likes the current format of which the team selects players.. Gibbs refused to call himself the GM, saying by title being the Team President, he expects to receive the criticism for decisions made in the offseason, some he finally characterized as mistakes that will be re-evaluated in the coming offseason.. Again, he did not close the door on hiring a GM, but he says he likes the selection by committee format used currently by the team and hinted he would prefer to stick with this plan on picking people.. Essentially, it sounds as if unless Dan Snyder asks for Gibbs to hire a true GM, there will not be that kind of addition this offseason.


ICEBURG DEAD AHEAD!!!!!!!!![/quote]

We need a true GM. GM's think about the long term future of the team and Gibbs is all about winning right now. Right now we don't have the pieces to win, and we would start winning a hell of a lot faster if we started building through the draft instead of throwing 30 million at every guy that comes along in free agency.

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

Gibbs just doesnt get it. This team needs a GM. I cant think of a successful team that doesnt have one. I know Gibbs says they are going to work harder to improve, what I wish is that they would would smarter instead.

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

[QUOTE=Redskins8588;259990]Everyone is bitching about how the Redskins need a GM, but who is to say that we would get a GM that is worth a damn? I mean look at Matt Millen in Detroit...[/QUOTE]


The system we have now isn't worth a damn. Sure, we could get another Matt Millen, or we could get the next Scott Peoli.

We're closer to Matt Millen right now anyway.

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

[quote=TAFKAS;259980]I think any changes that will be made should be made to the scouting department. Those are the guys going to the different games (pro and college) each week and analyzing potential player pick-ups. Spending the money is not as big an issue as how we spend the money.

I know it won't satisfy people if the same ultimate decision makers are in place but I think whatever "problems" there are with the front office structure are really more at the root level. [I][B]Hiring a GM would be fine, but my guess is it would be nothing more than a ceremonial move to placate all the complainers.[/B][/I][/quote]

Ex-freaking-actly.

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

I'm in favor of as little change as possible for next season. If they do bring in a GM I wouldn't expect that person's thinking to be all that different from the current front office setup. As TAFKAS has pointed out I think we could see some changes in the scouting department.

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

Gibbs IS the GM for all intents and purposes. That's at the core of his return IMO; he wanted to take on the challenge of picking & coaching players, something he didn't get to do in his first stint. If he wins a super bowl he'd be the first coach/Gm to do so wouldn't he?
I like TAFKAs' post - they hire an asst. to do scouting in February. That seems realistic, but I don't see gibbs giving up power over personel, that's what he came back to do.

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

[quote=jsarno;259986]OK, how about hiring a GM with decision making abilities beyond Mr. Gibbs?[/quote]

Yes becasue Gibbs can't do both. He's having enough trouble coaching the team.

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

I agree that the scouting dept. needs to be improved, alot. A good GM is not going to have an impact for several years even if he was hired today. I dont have a problem with the current setup, its the scouting and 'slightly' over paying to get some of these players. I think they did learn alot about some of their misstakes, and I truly believe those will not be made again. Also, I think Gibbs will not give as much weight to Williams flawed view of his scheme vs. players mentality.

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

This team has needed a GM for a while, and they still need one. There's just too much conflict with coaching players, selecting them, and determining their worth in order to pay them. There has to be one person who is objective, yet motivated to win. Coaches and owners want to win now. A GM would have the ability to take a step back and think like a builder.

If we win the Super Bowl next year, I'll say the same thing, because it's a proven model. No a GM won't suddenly transform our fortunes, but it will help us keep our eye on the ball. We've done everything unde the sun to right the ship except for this one area.

A GM won't solve all the ills of our front office, but it's a good way to have check and balances, control spending, and there's little if any conflict of interest. More than anything though, one person is accountable for the personnel decisions.

If three or four guys are involved, who do you chop when things go awry?

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

Gibbs is a great coach, however, he picks a lot of players based on "character" instead of talent. If a young player comes in a shows "redskin" heart and hard work, he would take him over some guy who has an ego and pouts when things go wrong, even though that guy might be twice as talented. And Greg Williams is even worse in this category. A GM would take away those conflicting views as long as he was given enough control. I think Gibbs can shape a player with a bad attitude into a player with a good attitude, since he has that ability, HE IS JOE GIBBS. The key is for someone else to give him the tools that are necessary, since Gibbs and GWilliams can't seem to objectively judge talent.

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

If the skins sign a GM, what exactly will Gibbs job be?
i mean, i feel like i'm in Office Space and the Bob's are asking, "what it is exactly, that you do?"

I mean he's hands off the D, he's virtually hands of the O (or at least was...), and with a GM he'd be ceding autonomy on personnel! Seems to me, were this to happen, he'd be nothing more than a figurehead/puppet- guiding he ship in a 5-11 direction...and we'd be no better than the citizens of
Oz willing to believe in the magical wizard.

I'm not saying Gibbs must go, what I am saying, is that we brought him back...paid him a lot of money...let him do his thing, without demanding that he cede control. [FONT=Arial][/FONT]

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

[quote=The Zimmermans;260064]Gibbs is a great coach, however, he picks a lot of players based on "character" instead of talent. If a young player comes in a shows "redskin" heart and hard work, he would take him over some guy who has an ego and pouts when things go wrong, even though that guy might be twice as talented. And Greg Williams is even worse in this category. A GM would take away those conflicting views as long as he was given enough control. I think Gibbs can shape a player with a bad attitude into a player with a good attitude, since he has that ability, HE IS JOE GIBBS. The key is for someone else to give him the tools that are necessary, since Gibbs and GWilliams can't seem to objectively judge talent.[/quote]

For all the "character" talk, i've not seen much action. where was it when we let pierce go- who gibbs consistently referred to as a core redskins guy- and signed Brandon Lloyd- who has temper tantrums on the sidelines...while these are just 2 cases, seems to me gibbs talks a big character game, but doesn't back it up...

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

another damn thing to bitch about.

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

[quote=BrunellMVP?;260065]If the skins sign a GM, what exactly will Gibbs job be?
i mean, i feel like i'm in Office Space and the Bob's are asking, "what it is exactly, that you do?"

I mean he's hands off the D, he's virtually hands of the O (or at least was...), and with a GM he'd be ceding autonomy on personnel! Seems to me, were this to happen, he'd be nothing more than a figurehead/puppet- guiding he ship in a 5-11 direction...and we'd be no better than the citizens of
Oz willing to believe in the magical wizard.

I'm not saying Gibbs must go, what I am saying, is that we brought him back...paid him a lot of money...let him do his thing, without demanding that he cede control. [/quote]

I'll tell you what he can do. He can spend time with all 3 units. Plus spend more time w/ JC. I'm sorry but this guy Lazor shouldn't be his only coach. He just should not be picking the players. What guy walks off a Nascar team and has full control of an NFL team? It makes no sense.

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

I mean, it just seems to me that for a lot of people all they want is to be able to say so and so is the Redskins General Manager.

Joe Gibbs could say "I'd like to announce that we have reorganized our staff and Don Breaux will now serve as general manager. I will still consult with Vinny and Mr. Snyder on personnel decisions, and Don's main task will be to make sure I pick up milk on the way home from work"....and a good amount of fans would just say "Finally! We have a GM!"

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;260075]What guy walks off a Nascar team and has full control of an NFL team? It makes no sense.[/QUOTE]

That's kind of a narrow way of looking at it don't you think? I mean Gibbs has a long history in the NFL. It's not like we're talking about Jeff Gordon walking off NASCAR to take control of an NFL team

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

[quote=BrunellMVP?;260069]For all the "character" talk, i've not seen much action. where was it when we let pierce go- who gibbs consistently referred to as a core redskins guy- and signed Brandon Lloyd- who has temper tantrums on the sidelines...while these are just 2 cases, seems to me gibbs talks a big character game, but doesn't back it up...[/quote]

I mean Gibbs can't control players nor their emotions. I think when Gibbs speak about character guys, he's mainly talking about guys who work very hard at their craft and they rarely if ever quit. I think that's why he'll never let Clinton Portis go, incidentally. Portis is balls to the wall every play, that's a Gibbs guy.

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;260056]Yes becasue Gibbs can't do both. He's having enough trouble coaching the team.[/QUOTE]

I agree 100%. Both jobs are just too much for 1 man. This 1 man method has been tried before and failed. I think the problem is that the head coach is so involved in coaching he cant distance himself from the personnel aspect enough to get a realiztic perspective of what's needed. The GM and head coach have to work together so they can be on the same page with whats needed but the NFL has shown over and over that teams need a GM and a head coach and they must be 2 different people.

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

[quote=TAFKAS;260077]That's kind of a narrow way of looking at it don't you think? I mean Gibbs has a long history in the NFL. It's not like we're talking about Jeff Gordon walking off NASCAR to take control of an NFL team[/quote]

No. Becasue he was away from it for 11 years. That's a long time to be away from the NFL. Or what he could do is just let Vinny be in charge of it. Hand that authority off to Vinny since he likes him so much. He really needs to focus on coaching. Way too many coaching errors that need to be fixed. BTW, on your comment about Don B. Having Don B. get milk would at least now give him something to do. :)

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

Gibbs does have a long history in the NFL (a long time ago) but never as a coach and GM. It would be a huge task to get up to speed on the coaching aspect alone, throw in a GM role on top of that and its a prescription for a mess. Which is exactly what the Redskins are in.

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

Well I think a big reason for hiring Saunders and Williams and giving them near autonomous control of their respective units was for Gibbs to focus more on long term issues. I think he said as much last winter.

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

Here is why we don't need a GM: Rocky McIntosh, Kedrick Golston,Carlos Rogers,Jason Campbell,Sean Taylor,Chris Cooley. I think the Front office has made pretty darn good picks. Before that we hadn't had a good draft since 2000.

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

[quote=irish;260090]Gibbs does have a long history in the NFL (a long time ago) but never as a coach and GM. It would be a huge task to get up to speed on the coaching aspect alone, throw in a GM role on top of that and its a prescription for a mess. Which is exactly what the Redskins are in.[/quote]

True that it's been a huge task to adjust to the new nfl, but don't you think Gibbs has shown his ability to make changes? He has been upfront & honest about the transition. Of course w/the way things have gone this year no one will applaud him for hiring Saunders. But when the O starts rolling (& it will) people will look back at it as a savvy move. Same thing w/JC, a very forward thinking move.
This year Gibbs will have to live w/criticism of this 06 FA class & mismanagment of his coaching staff (see the T.Friend article), but after each year he's shown that he is willing to adapt to the circumstances of the new nfl. I have faith in him to learn from this year & put together a season to rival or better 05.
My only significant complaints were aired in yesterday's - A Tale of Two Teams thread - I don't disagree w/going after FAs, just not at the expense of our most valuable picks & future cap $. I do believe that Gibbs may see a need for change in this area too. Remember that before the 05 season we had few signings, only Rabach & Patten were significant. I even think that Snyder would allow Gibbs to hire a GM to take over after he retires. Something tells me that this time around part of his job is to leave a blueprint in place for the organization beyond his years.

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

[quote=NM Redskin;260097]Here is why we don't need a GM: Rocky McIntosh, Kedrick Golston,Carlos Rogers,Jason Campbell,Sean Taylor,Chris Cooley. I think the Front office has made pretty darn good picks. Before that we hadn't had a good draft since 2000.[/quote]

You have named some players but the real question is are they any good? Remember we are 4-9 and looking at 4-12. I don't think Rogers is a very good man cover corner. He is getting beat every week. Perhaps he's better in zone because I know that is what he played in college. Goldston is only a rookie but he has had some bad games. Remember Tenn and TB? He was getting blown off the ball badly in those games. But he looks like he has some promise. But a full time player? Taylor has flat out regressed this year. Poor in coverage, too many missed tackles and too many 15 yarders. Rocky hasn't played any yet so we don't know about him. And JC has the physical skills but let's see if giving up the extra 1st rounder was worth it. Cooley was a real nice find in the 3rd round. So out of those 6 players we have one that is proven.

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;260102]You have named some players but the real question is are they any good? Remember we are 4-9 and looking at 4-12. I don't think Rogers is a very good man cover corner. He is getting beat every week. Perhaps he's better in zone because I know that is what he played in college. Goldston is only a rookie but he has had some bad games. Remember Tenn and TB? He was getting blown off the ball badly in those games. But he looks like he has some promise. But a full time player? Taylor has flat out regressed this year. Poor in coverage, too many missed tackles and too many 15 yarders. Rocky hasn't played any yet so we don't know about him. And JC has the physical skills but let's see if giving up the extra 1st rounder was worth it. Cooley was a real nice find in the 3rd round. So out of those 6 players we have one that is proven.[/QUOTE]

Well you get poor coverage when you have no pass rush. Plus no one of the D lione is a "full time player", they rotate a lot. S taylor is the man, is not proven, your crazy.

Re: Gibbs still likes how players are selected....ugh
 

[QUOTE=NM Redskin;260097]Here is why we don't need a GM: Rocky McIntosh, Kedrick Golston,Carlos Rogers,Jason Campbell,Sean Taylor,Chris Cooley. I think the Front office has made pretty darn good picks. Before that we hadn't had a good draft since 2000.[/QUOTE]

So you are basically satisfied with how everything is going so far?