Does he see the same things we do?
 

Little article bout the skins written by Baldinger. Made a few good points and seems to see it from a different point of view than others.....


[U][COLOR=#760000][URL="http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AhN4oWdsUyPnJe5oeZSLLbJDubYF?slug=watchoutforwashingtonin&prov=tsn&type=lgns"]Watch out for Washington in 2007 - NFL - Yahoo! Sports[/URL][/COLOR][/U]

Re: Do he see the same things we do?
 

i hate baldinger

Re: Do he see the same things we do?
 

i don't care too much for baldinger but that was , at least, a pretty fair and accurate article.

Re: Do he see the same things we do?
 

Except for this:
[QUOTE]if coach Joe Gibbs doesn't have an open competition for the starting running back job next summer, something is wrong.[/QUOTE]

He's completely missing the point of having two quality RBs. Both will play, although CP will technically be the #1 back.

Re: Do he see the same things we do?
 

sounds like one of us "dumb fans"

Re: Do he see the same things we do?
 

I'm expecting big things from this offense next year. Assuming Campbell progresses, and the O-line stays healthy, there's no reason this collection of players can't be in the top five throughout the '07 season.

Next year will be the 5th season playing together for 4/5 of the offensive line (Rabach) -- that kind of continuity is virtually unheard of. Just one or two adequate backups, like Todd Wade, who can step in for 2 or 3 games, and it'll be tough to find a better line in the league.

Defense though, is another issue. There's more work there than Baldinger says.

Re: Do he see the same things we do?
 

I agree with his viewpoint because it's true this team is much too talented to be where it is at this point in the season. I share along with him a vison for the future.

Re: Do he see the same things we do?
 

The defense is a huge question mark. However there SHOULD be optimism because theres a chance the D could be as good as it was in 04-05. If that happens, we will be the team everyone thought we would eb this year.

If the defense repeats this sorry performance, we will be .500 ish, and not a serious SB contender.

Re: Do he see the same things we do?
 

Wow, this came from left field.

I can't say that there are any holes in his argument. I agree with the offensive line comments. Earlier in the year, Brunell held onto the ball forever and a day so their stats didn't look so good. Now, people are questioning Portis because he didn't put up the stats that Betts has. Well this is a completely different offense than the one with Brunell. When you are facing a quarterback who cannot physically throw the ball 15 yards downfield, you are going to stack the box continuously. Betts does not face that now. If Portis was running right now, he would be putting up Betts' numbers except he would be taking long ones to the house. Portis in space is lethal.

If they get a proven pass rusher, this defense will look like the '04 version overnight. Expect a good year out of Carter in '07 too.

Re: Do he see the same things we do?
 

this article sounds like someone from the warpath had written it. and the title of this thread kills me

Re: Do he see the same things we do?
 

[quote=Grim21Reaper;263137]Wow, this came from left field.

I can't say that there are any holes in his argument. I agree with the offensive line comments. Earlier in the year, Brunell held onto the ball forever and a day so their stats didn't look so good. Now, people are questioning Portis because he didn't put up the stats that Betts has. Well this is a completely different offense than the one with Brunell. When you are facing a quarterback who cannot physically throw the ball 15 yards downfield, you are going to stack the box continuously. Betts does not face that now. If Portis was running right now, he would be putting up Betts' numbers except he would be taking long ones to the house. Portis in space is lethal.

If they get a proven pass rusher, this defense will look like the '04 version overnight. Expect a good year out of Carter in '07 too.[/quote]

nice post, i agree with you 100 %.

Re: Do he see the same things we do?
 

[quote=onlydarksets;263107]Except for this:


He's completely missing the point of having two quality RBs. Both will play, although CP will technically be the #1 back.[/quote]


agreed CP rules

Re: Do he see the same things we do?
 

[quote=dmek25;263149]this article sounds like someone from the warpath had written it. [B]and the title of this thread kills me[/B][/quote]


yea i tried to change it after i posted it but it wont change...

all i want for christmas is some proper grammar schoolin....

Re: Do he see the same things we do?
 

"...But more important, Gibbs has had trouble letting go. A longtime micromanager and play-caller, he needs to let high-priced offensive guru Al Saunders cut loose. ..."

Really? I thought he DID let go, then took control back which is when we started having a running game again. If anything Gibbs needed to be meddling in the offensive strategy earlier and more often. Saunders has no magic plays.

But he is correct in his basic point that the Redskins are underachievers of the highest order. I'm not sure that we can assume, though, that next year will be any different. Gibbs needs to figure out what is working now and find a way to keep it going through the off season. Last August, it was as thouigh the players from the previous January had all been replaced by imposters. The same thing could happen next summer.

Re: Do he see the same things we do?
 

[QUOTE=70Chip;263173]"...But more important, Gibbs has had trouble letting go. A longtime micromanager and play-caller, he needs to let high-priced offensive guru Al Saunders cut loose. ..."

Really? I thought he DID let go, then took control back which is when we started having a running game again. If anything Gibbs needed to be meddling in the offensive strategy earlier and more often. Saunders has no magic plays.

But he is correct in his basic point that the Redskins are underachievers of the highest order. I'm not sure that we can assume, though, that next year will be any different. Gibbs needs to figure out what is working now and find a way to keep it going through the off season. Last August, it was as thouigh the players from the previous January had all been replaced by imposters. The same thing could happen next summer.[/QUOTE]

Gibbs had his chance at running the offense, and quite frankly his offense since coming back...SUCKS. He needs to let Saunders go 100%...Saunders has proven himself in the new NFL, Gibbs hasn't. Utilyze your weapons.

Re: Do he see the same things we do?
 

[quote=jsarno;263188]Gibbs had his chance at running the offense, and quite frankly his offense since coming back...SUCKS. He needs to let Saunders go 100%...Saunders has proven himself in the new NFL, Gibbs hasn't. Utilyze your weapons.[/quote]

:bdh:
Man you guys kill me with that crap. What, because he hasnt won 2 superbowls since hes been back? I mean wtf did u think he was going to do?? Yeah we all thought and wanted things to be more po sitive INSTANTLY, but in the back of most reasonable thinking minds we knew it could take SEVERAL years. whatever, im back to wrapping.

Re: Do he see the same things we do?
 

70 Chip is right, he has the Saunders story completely backwards. It wasn"t until Gibbs stepped back in and basically asserted that the team return to redskins football, with an emphasis on controlling both lines of scrimmage, that the offense appeared to get back on track. This is typical of a guy who is an idiot to begin with, and is writing about a team he obviously hasn't followed closely enough.

One thing I love about this site is that, on those rare occasions in which a national media article actually says something positive about the Skins everyone posts variations of, yup, it's a great article, no matter how inane it's argumentation. I remember an article before last year that said how good we would be, and listed as one of the reasons the addition of Springs, who of course was coming off a Pro-Bowl caliber season with the Redskins. And nobody said, well, obviously this guy is an idiot, how could you not know we already had Springs. People LOVED it!

The fact that Baldinger is saying good things about the Skins next year is reason enough for me to worry.....

Re: Do he see the same things we do?
 

[quote=djnemo65;263193]70 Chip is right, he has the Saunders story completely backwards. It wasn"t until Gibbs stepped back in and basically asserted that the team return to redskins football, with an emphasis on controlling both lines of scrimmage, that the offense appeared to get back on track. This is typical of a guy who is an idiot to begin with, and is writing about a team he obviously hasn't followed closely enough.

One thing I love about this site is that, on those rare occasions in which a national media article actually says something positive about the Skins everyone posts variations of, yup, it's a great article, no matter how inane it's argumentation. I remember an article before last year that said how good we would be, and listed as one of the reasons the addition of Springs, who of course was coming off a Pro-Bowl caliber season with the Redskins. And nobody said, well, obviously this guy is an idiot, how could you not know we already had Springs. People LOVED it!

The fact that Baldinger is saying good things about the Skins next year is reason enough for me to worry.....[/quote]


Funny how "Redskins Football" wasn't played until Campbell was inserted. "Redskins Football" includes bombs down the field which was not possible until JC took the snaps.

Why the hell would Baldinger's comments worry you? 5-9 worries me a hell of a lot more than Baldinger.

Re: Do he see the same things we do?
 

was it me, or did it seem like we threw more deep balls in the first half against new orleans, then we had all season? those throws open up the running game. this is what i expected out of Al Saunders and his offense. i guess brunell was alot worse then people thought

Re: Do he see the same things we do?
 

[QUOTE=dmek25;263201]was it me, or did it seem like we threw more deep balls in the first half against new orleans, then we had all season? those throws open up the running game. this is what i expected out of Al Saunders and his offense. i guess brunell was alot worse then people thought[/QUOTE]

Yep, the blinding loyalty that Gibbs showed to Brunell superceded any rational observation of his actual abilities. And the team suffered because of it.

It's easy to look back now, but one has to wonder what might have been if:

Brunell was never brought to Washinton in the first place, going through 2004 with Patrick Ramsey to give him a second season to mature, and/or giving the reins to Jason Campbell this season if Ramsey didn't pan out.

Too often, this franchise has been focused on "win now, no matter what the costs". But we've seen that it's such huge gamble that way -- strangling the cap, losing draft picks, mortgaging the future... Sometimes players need a season or two to work the kinks out.

Now I'll brace myself for the inevitable tirades for bringing up the Ramsey-Brunell debate.

Re: Do he see the same things we do?
 

[quote=Beemnseven;263207]Yep, [B]the blinding loyalty that Gibbs showed to Brunell superceded any rational observation of his actual abilities.[/B] And the team suffered because of it.

It's easy to look back now, but one has to wonder what might have been if:

Brunell was never brought to Washinton in the first place, going through 2004 with Patrick Ramsey to give him a second season to mature, and/or giving the reins to Jason Campbell this season if Ramsey didn't pan out.

Too often, this franchise has been focused on "win now, no matter what the costs". But we've seen that it's such huge gamble that way -- strangling the cap, losing draft picks, mortgaging the future... Sometimes players need a season or two to work the kinks out.

[B]Now I'll brace myself for the inevitable tirades for bringing up the Ramsey-Brunell debate[/B].[/quote]



Point 1. IMO, Brunell was put into starting QB position last year because Joe Bibbs thought that CP would do most of the hard work and MB would be there to more manage the game and NOT fuck it up more than anything else. Just pound the ball to death. But, Brunell did A LOT last year i think. He made a lot of good throws, lots of sharp and accurate ones over the middle and he got the ball into the playmakers hands. I think Joe wanted BETTER than what he did last year. When he realized that last year was probably Brunell's way of saying Goodbye to the NFL, he knew it was JC's time.....

Point 2. WOW.....what a diff scenario THAT would be...if it had worked out like that, maybe no playoffs last year but we were beast this year...lol

Re: Do he see the same things we do?
 

[QUOTE=JGisLordOfTheRings;263208]Point 1. IMO, Brunell was put into starting QB position last year because Joe Bibbs thought that CP would do most of the hard work and MB would be there to more manage the game and NOT fuck it up more than anything else. Just pound the ball to death. But, Brunell did A LOT last year i think. He made a lot of good throws, lots of sharp and accurate ones over the middle and he got the ball into the playmakers hands. I think Joe wanted BETTER than what he did last year. When he realized that last year was probably Brunell's way of saying Goodbye to the NFL, he knew it was JC's time.....

Point 2. WOW.....what a diff scenario THAT would be...if it had worked out like that, maybe no playoffs last year but we were beast this year...lol[/QUOTE]

You're right. You've got to give Brunell credit for '05 -- it was the one season where he did exactly what he was supposed to do. Many of his 23 touchdowns were short throws into the endzone after Portis took us down the field. Still, he got "hot" for a stretch or two, then gradually ran out of gas (which is usually what happens with guys his age).

So yeah, without Brunell there might not have been the playoffs last year -- but I still sometimes wonder if Ramsey could have matured going through 2004 as the unquestioned starter under Gibbs' guidance. What level might he have been on in 2005?

Re: Do he see the same things we do?
 

[quote=Beemnseven;263213]You're right. You've got to give Brunell credit for '05 -- it was the one season where he did exactly what he was supposed to do. Many of his 23 touchdowns were short throws into the endzone after Portis took us down the field. Still, he got "hot" for a stretch or two, then gradually ran out of gas (which is usually what happens with guys his age).

So yeah, without Brunell there might not have been the playoffs last year -- [B]but I still sometimes wonder if Ramsey could have matured going through 2004 as the unquestioned starter under Gibbs' guidance. What level might he have been on in 2005?[/B][/quote]


LETS THE TIRADES BEGIN!!! AHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

no really though, I liked Ramsey. If every throw he ever made wasnt that spear as soon as he made his first read, he woulda been straight. BUT, if we had let him mature......hmmm......whose to say...jesus, we could be sittin with PR lookin nice and JC ridin pine.....wow....i need to lie down now to bring some reality back into my world.....

Re: Do he see the same things we do?
 

[QUOTE=JGisLordOfTheRings;263170]yea i tried to change it after i posted it but it wont change...

all i want for christmas is some proper grammar schoolin....[/QUOTE]

I changed the title...I'll read the actual article later

Re: Do he see the same things we do?
 

[quote=TAFKAS;263220]I changed the title...I'll read the actual article later[/quote]
thanks i just noticed that!


YA! I GOT MY PRESENT!

I LOVE MY GRAMMA SKOOLIN!

Re: Do he see the same things we do?
 

[quote=onlydarksets;263107]Except for this:


He's completely missing the point of having two quality RBs. Both will play, although CP will technically be the #1 back.[/quote]
It will be like Bush and Mcalister...I think portis might be better for sweep plays and short yardage..and betts for long yards..

Re: Do he see the same things we do?
 

[quote=JGisLordOfTheRings;263214]LETS THE TIRADES BEGIN!!! AHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
no really though, I liked Ramsey. If every throw he ever made wasnt that spear as soon as he made his first read, he woulda been straight. BUT, if we had let him mature......hmmm......whose to say...jesus, we could be sittin with PR lookin nice and JC ridin pine.....wow....i need to lie down now to bring some reality back into my world.....[/quote]
Ramsey didnt diserve the right to wear #11 Rypiens number should be retired

Re: Do he see the same things we do?
 

[quote=pg86;263233]It will be like Bush and Mcalister...I think portis might be better for sweep plays and short yardage..and betts for long yards..[/quote]


wow......i dont think i can even dignify that fucked up statement with any response but this...

CPG/avg next year
Portis 20-25
Betts 8-10

CP Rules

Re: Do he see the same things we do?
 

[quote=JGisLordOfTheRings;263236]wow......i dont think i can even dignify that fucked up statement with any response but this...
CPG/avg next year
Portis 20-25
Betts 8-10

CP Rules[/quote]

I disagree...betts is the future he's more of a gibbs guy

Re: Do he see the same things we do?
 

[quote=pg86;263238]I disagree...betts is the future he's more of a gibbs guy[/quote]


I kinda see where youre going but, whereas Betts gets a big hole and pops it for 10-15, Portis is gone and he's good for 60+ and a TD. I am more partial to Portis just because of his Skins loyalty but I LOVE Betts!

He is an excellent runner and could start for a big handful of teams.....

Re: Do he see the same things we do?
 

[QUOTE=pg86;263235]Ramsey didnt diserve the right to wear #11 Rypiens number should be retired[/QUOTE]


I don't know about that. They've only retired Sammy Baugh's #33. Theismann, Jurgenson, Darrell Green, Riggins, and Art Monk's jersey numbers haven't been retired yet.

There are several players before Rypien that deserve to have their jerseys retired before he could be included in the conversation.

Re: Does he see the same things we do?
 

One point that gets consistently missed in the Great Gibbs / Brunell Vs Campbell Debate is that (IMO) Joe did not want to put Jason in a position where he was set up to fail, long-term, as the QB and future of this franchise.

This is exactly what we did to Ramsey, regardless of whether that kid ever had it or not, and given that being an NFL QB is so much about your mental stamina and attitude, I think he absolutely did the right thing by waiting as long as he did, and here's why:

1). He gave the kid a solid year of apprenticeship, to watch and learn from a proven veteran in Brunell, who led the team through a lot of negativity last season and nearly completed a true Cinderella comeback in the playoffs. Great experience for Jason to learn from.

2). He knew once he made the move for Jason, Mark was done here, and all eyes (locally and nationally) would be on Jason as the future of this franchise. You can't play Campbell and then say "he's not ready". Once he goes in, it's on the line.

3). He didn't pull a Shanahan and put Jason into a position where he had to win to keep the team's playoff chances alive. Instead, he's getting valuable game experience, and chances to win games (and win real moral victories / confidence boosters) but in games that nobody really blames him for / cares too much about if we lose.

4). He's allowing Jason to build confidence, and setting the stage for what he knows is his most crucial test, which is next season. Why? Because he knows that next season, everyone will expect him to lead this team to the playoffs.

Being QB of any high-profile NFL team is a pressure-cooker, especially being the QB of the Redskins. Nearly every Skins fan has locked their "hopes and dreams-ometer" to this kid, and Joe knows it. He need only look at Eli Manning to know what happens when a sharp kid with the tools loses his confidence or composure, too. Or Kyle Boller, for an example of what happens to young promising QB's who never regain their own or their team's confidence. Or Ben Roethlisberger, to see what happens to a young QB who's had early success but let it go to his head (figuratively and literally). Or Heath Shuler, to see what happens when the next Savior of the Franchise just can't get it going.

So, I think Joe knows a thing or two about cultivating young QB's, and I think he knows a thing or two about the difference between breeding winners and losers. The way he's handled the Brunell/Campbell situation went down about how I expected to, and I think in time we will see this as a great move.

Re: Does he see the same things we do?
 

Rypien's #11 is in no danger of being retired... not even close.

He had some good seasons and won a Super Bowl, but that's not exactly worthy of having a number retired.

Re: Does he see the same things we do?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;263927]Rypien's #11 is in no danger of being retired... not even close.

He had some good seasons and won a Super Bowl, but that's not exactly worthy of having a number retired.[/QUOTE]

I agree.
91 was his only pro bowl caliber season (even though he went in 89 as well)
He posted a good season (not spectacular) in 89.
He was average in 88 and 90.
He was below average in 92 and 93.

If his number gets retired, there are about 50 other players (at least) that deserve to have their numbers retired.

Re: Does he see the same things we do?
 

[quote=jsarno;263968]I agree.
91 was his only pro bowl caliber season (even though he went in 89 as well)
He posted a good season (not spectacular) in 89.
He was average in 88 and 90.
He was below average in 92 and 93.

If his number gets retired, there are about 50 other players (at least) that deserve to have their numbers retired.[/quote]

I'll bet that would leave us with some pretty non-standard numbering if we did that!

Re: Does he see the same things we do?
 

[QUOTE=onlydarksets;263970]I'll bet that would leave us with some pretty non-standard numbering if we did that![/QUOTE]

We'd have to employ triple digit numbers! :D

Re: Do he see the same things we do?
 

[quote=onlydarksets;263107]Except for this:


He's completely missing the point of having two quality RBs. Both will play, although CP will technically be the #1 back.[/quote]

CP doesn't fumble the ball away... he's our #1

Re: Do he see the same things we do?
 

[quote=hesscl34;263980]CP doesn't fumble the ball away... he's our #1[/quote]

I don't disagree in the slightest - my point is that his carries-per-game average is going to go down some because Betts is going to get more carries each game. I think it will end up with Betts getting 10-15 and CP getting 15-20 a game. No question that CP is the #1 back, but it won't be like how LT is the #1 back, getting 80-90% of the carries each game. That was my only point in saying "technically".

Re: Do he see the same things we do?
 

[QUOTE=onlydarksets;263984]I don't disagree in the slightest - my point is that his carries-per-game average is going to go down some because Betts is going to get more carries each game. I think it will end up with Betts getting 10-15 and CP getting 15-20 a game. No question that CP is the #1 back, but it won't be like how LT is the #1 back, getting 80-90% of the carries each game. That was my only point in saying "technically".[/QUOTE]

That will be good for Portis anyway...Portis always seems to have those little nagging injuries, so having Betts will help keep him fresh.

Re: Does he see the same things we do?
 

I agree - it bodes well, especially given that both players seem to be pretty selfless. If they can work together, they could be another 1000 yard tandem next year.