ESPN: Archuleta: 'I don't like getting lied to'
 

This should generate some juicy conversation:

[url=http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2710691]ESPN.com - NFL - Beleaguered safety Archuleta says Skins lied to him[/url]

Re: ESPN: Archuleta: 'I don't like getting lied to'
 

Happy trails you overpaid underachiever!! I don't like guys who don't live up to a fat contract!!

Re: ESPN: Archuleta: 'I don't like getting lied to'
 

So, that would probably qualify as "bitching".

Re: ESPN: Archuleta: 'I don't like getting lied to'
 

Is there any question as to whether or not he'll be back next year?

Re: ESPN: Archuleta: 'I don't like getting lied to'
 

I wish they could cut him right now!

Re: ESPN: Archuleta: 'I don't like getting lied to'
 

I'd call that bitching. I'd love to know why when players fall into the dog house with the current coaching staff they all basically say the same things. Is it sour grapes or is it some fundamental flaw with the staff? Gibbs didn't seem to have issues like this the first time around and by all outward appearences all other players seem fine. What is it that the coaches do when they finally give up on you?

Re: ESPN: Archuleta: 'I don't like getting lied to'
 

As much as I hate to say it, I think Archuleta has a point. If he can handle all the criticism and being told what is wrong with him then the coaches should just talk to him straight and tell him all his flaws and what he needs to work on. It's clear he doesn't fit into our system, but the least they could do is tell him what he needs to work on to be a good safety in this league. That said, I would like to see us trade him, rather than cut him. At least if we traded him, we could get some value for him. Why not trade him to the Bears?

Re: ESPN: Archuleta: 'I don't like getting lied to'
 

AHHH HAHAHAHA!!! What a maroon. I wish I hadn't a taken up for him earlier in the season. I stand corrected, he sucks....a lot. I mean a WHOLE lot.

AA: "I don't like getting lied to?"
GW: "You want answers?"
AA: "I want the truth!"
GW "You can't handle the truth!"
AA: "Give it to me straight, what do I need to be better?"
GW:"Skills"

Re: ESPN: Archuleta: 'I don't like getting lied to'
 

AA proved his worth early on: pretty useless. I have no question he doesn't belong on this team, but once again we have a disgruntled player leaving the organization pissed off.

What the hell is with the management of this team that we seem to have more pissed players up and leave or get fired than any other team I'm aware of? Is it just because I follow the Redskins a lot closer than other teams, or does this team genuinely screw people over season after season?

I'm not arguing that AA should play or that he's good, I'm just wondering in general why these situations happen so freakin' often to this team.

Re: ESPN: Archuleta: 'I don't like getting lied to'
 

Not a bad question.

Here's my glass half full theory....

The Redskins are one of the few teams that don't cater to whiney crybabies. They would rather them leave disgruntled and unhappy instead of elevate those few to the lofty pedestal in which they foolishly believe they entitled to.


just a theory...

Re: ESPN: Archuleta: 'I don't like getting lied to'
 

I totally understand where you are coming from AA. I too hate being lied to. They told us you were a hard hitter, smart, and all around good player. The truth is, you suck. Any moron can play close to the line and play the run. That's basic prerequisite to being a safety. What everyone expected was a Strong Safety. That means someone who can lay the smack down as well as cover the TE. Which in tern means someone who doesn't bite harder than a BDSM mistress on a pump fake and who can keep up with a TE in the 4th qt when your team is leading.

Know that I know that it's not your fault. It's the talent evaluator at Redskins Park's fault.

Re: ESPN: Archuleta: 'I don't like getting lied to'
 

i dont think anyone who has ever blamed the coaching staff has ever come out and critisized themselves, i.e. lavar, archuleta. it seems everytime a player is not performing all of the sudden its the coaching staff who is not holding thier hand. these are grown ass men who make millions, put up or shut up. you mean to tell me that in the 6 plus years archuleta has been in this league he cannot figure out what is wrong with his game. well its a good thing im here.....

let me see if i can diagnose some propblems for you Adam just so you know what to work on.

1. speed, your slow and you have weak ankles, try a dot drill, i think you can find one at any local high school in the area.

2. tackling, speaks for itself, learn how to do it effectively, you may have been able to blame previous safeties in the past for mistakes but that wont work on sean.

3. coverage, dude this ties in with number 1, your like the kid who lines up in the backyard across from the fast kid who yells "mismatch" with his hand in the air only to run a fly route right past you.

4. blocking, dont think i forgot about your missed blocking assignment about 7 weeks ago when frost got his kicked blocked, that was your man, and it was an obvious botch.

5. special teams, consider this a gift for condidtioning, if you werent making so much money we would have you filling out paperwork. just hope the browns are looking for a safety next year, oh oops must we all forget who they have back there. ifayani ohalette, who i would take in a heartbeat over your sorry ____ (sorry not familiar with forum rules).

6. just go adam, just go away

Re: ESPN: Archuleta: 'I don't like getting lied to'
 

[quote=mheisig;264387]AA proved his worth early on: pretty useless. I have no question he doesn't belong on this team, but once again we have a disgruntled player leaving the organization pissed off.

What the hell is with the management of this team that we seem to have more pissed players up and leave or get fired than any other team I'm aware of? Is it just because I follow the Redskins a lot closer than other teams, or does this team genuinely screw people over season after season?

I'm not arguing that AA should play or that he's good, I'm just wondering in general why these situations happen so freakin' often to this team.[/quote]

Dude, you pretty much took the words right out of my mouth. I mean, we all knew Arch was unhappy and he didn't fit this scheme. I think that's a moot point.

But the bigger question is, why does this seem to be a consistent theme with our staff/management? Why is it that the coaches play the silence game with the media, toe the company line, and all of sudden we have another disgruntled player that is leaving the team. No way in hell it's always the player that's the problem.

Why do I get the impression that Gibbs has no control over this team??

Re: ESPN: Archuleta: 'I don't like getting lied to'
 

[quote=chrisl4064;264390]i dont think anyone who has ever blamed the coaching staff has ever come out and critisized themselves, i.e. lavar, archuleta. it seems everytime a player is not performing all of the sudden its the coaching staff who is not holding thier hand. these are grown ass men who make millions, put up or shut up. you mean to tell me that in the 6 plus years archuleta has been in this league he cannot figure out what is wrong with his game. well its a good thing im here.....

let me see if i can diagnose some propblems for you Adam just so you know what to work on.

1. speed, your slow and you have weak ankles, try a dot drill, i think you can find one at any local high school in the area.

2. tackling, speaks for itself, learn how to do it effectively, you may have been able to blame previous safeties in the past for mistakes but that wont work on sean.

3. coverage, dude this ties in with number 1, your like the kid who lines up in the backyard across from the fast kid who yells "mismatch" with his hand in the air only to run a fly route right past you.

4. blocking, dont think i forgot about your missed blocking assignment about 7 weeks ago when frost got his kicked blocked, that was your man, and it was an obvious botch.

5. special teams, consider this a gift for condidtioning, if you werent making so much money we would have you filling out paperwork. just hope the browns are looking for a safety next year, oh oops must we all forget who they have back there. ifayani ohalette, who i would take in a heartbeat over your sorry ____ (sorry not familiar with forum rules).

6. just go adam, just go away[/quote]

You're right, man. Adam has some hand in this, but his is on the field primarily. How many pressers have you watched this year, and both Gibbs and Williams will give some bullshit line, he's having a great practice, blah, blah. In fact, prior to the St. Louis game, Williams gave the impression that Arch would be playing some defense.

Re: ESPN: Archuleta: 'I don't like getting lied to'
 

[quote=saden1;264389]I totally understand where you are coming from AA. I too hate being lied to. They told us you were a hard hitter, smart, and all around good player. The truth is, you suck. Any moron can play close to the line and play the run. That's basic prerequisite to being a safety. What everyone expected was a Strong Safety. That means someone who can lay the smack down as well as cover the TE. Which in tern means someone who doesn't bite harder than an BDSM mistress on a pump fake and who can keep up with a TE in the 4th qt when your team is leading.

Know that I know that it's not your fault. It's the talent evaluator at Redskins Park's fault.[/quote]


Saden - the talent evaluator you are referring to - what that be Cerrato or Gibbs or both?

Re: ESPN: Archuleta: 'I don't like getting lied to'
 

[QUOTE=12thMan;264392]Dude, you pretty much took the words right out of my mouth. I mean, we all knew Arch was unhappy and he didn't fit this scheme. I think that's a moot point.

But the bigger question is, why does this seem to be a consistent theme with our staff/management? Why is it that the coaches play the silence game with the media, toe the company line, and all of sudden we have another disgruntled player that is leaving the team. No way in hell it's always the player that's the problem.

Why do I get the impression that Gibbs has no control over this team??[/QUOTE]

I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt to the organization as a whole to a certain point. The league is full of arrogant, crybaby players, but there are also plenty of decent guys who are honest, hard working players.

One, two, maybe three disgruntled players and I'd say it's a string of bad luck. This is getting to be a yearly occurrence, however. Every season it's one or two guys who get pissed off and leaving hating the team, season in and season out.

I'm not saying we should be out to make friends - yes, business is business and it can be rough. At a certain point you've got to start wondering if maybe it's not just a string of bad luck or some selfish players...

Re: ESPN: Archuleta: 'I don't like getting lied to'
 

[QUOTE=Bill B;264394]Saden - the talent evaluator you are referring to - what that be Cerrato or Gibbs or both?[/QUOTE]

Do I have to choose? Asking me to choose is akin to asking a man to choose which one of his children he would prefer dead.

I choose all of the above including the security guard at the parking lot and the lady that washes player's towels.

Re: ESPN: Archuleta: 'I don't like getting lied to'
 

It is funny how every guy on this board said about the same thing before the season started... "We overpayed for AA, but there is no question he is an upgrade over Ryan Clark". Hind sight is 20/20. I agree he is bad in coverage, but I don't understand why people bust on his tackling. He is and has always been a good tackler, led the team before being benched (AA didn't miss that tackle against Jackson last week , but Taylor gets a by?)

I still think that AA was brought in to be a hitter if Taylor went to jail, but the coaches expected that they could magically teach him to become a better pass defender if Taylor avoided jail. They couldn't... and here we are.

He was talked into joining the skins, then used wrong, then benched. I am amazed that he has been as silent as he has been throughout this whole thing. Wouldn't anyone else here be pissed? (Personally I could temper my frustration with the 10 million:).)

Re: ESPN: Archuleta: 'I don't like getting lied to'
 

I don't know, I know I am going to take shit for this but I really don't see the problem with what he said. If he sucked this bad, why did we snap him up and pay him $20 million? It's just a really lame way of handling these kinds of issues.

Coaches always say they want players who never quit. I think this shows what happens when coaches decide to quit on a player rather than work it out like professionals, and then decide what's best in the offseason. You can't tell me that the way the Arch and Lavar situation went down makes guys on the team happier and more confident in the coaching staff. You can't tell me that it wasn't a distraction -- that ESPN "deep throat" article is proof of that.

It's just really, really weird and smacks of some kind of personal thing. Arch Deluxe has certainly not turned out the way we had hoped, but our coaching staff is as guilty if not more guilty here, because we either completely nerfed the scouting report on this guy or we're completely quitting on a player because he isn't up to Ggrilliamss' stratospheric standards (note: sarcasm). And in either case, we have once again made an ugly mess out of what should have been a quiet personnel decision made in the offseason.

Re: ESPN: Archuleta: 'I don't like getting lied to'
 

Does this article pretty much mean that Archuletta was indeed the mole and not Springs like many had thought?

Re: ESPN: Archuleta: 'I don't like getting lied to'
 

[quote=Bill B;264403]Does this article pretty much mean that Archuletta was indeed the mole and not Springs like many had thought?[/quote]

Unless it was just a smokescreen, weren't there a number of references to how things had been run in the past, which would indicate it wasn't someone new like Arch?

Re: ESPN: Archuleta: 'I don't like getting lied to'
 

Its not really AA's fault he is getting overpaid. It's not his fault he has problems w/ covering. Why so much anger toward him? Why did our FO bring him here? It's alright to have an opinion but let's stop the personal attacks.

He very well may have a point. Who knows? I think we all can agree he's most likely gone though.

Re: ESPN: Archuleta: 'I don't like getting lied to'
 

im not sure what the lies were, but im on A.A.s side on this subject. the man is a grown adult, even if its something he doesnt want to hear, tell him the truth. but he also has about 30 million reasons to not let the lies bother him

Re: ESPN: Archuleta: 'I don't like getting lied to'
 

i don't feel any sympathy for AA, lavar, coles or bailey. they're pretty much the ones that left feeling like they had been given the shaft by the skins.

1- bailey, skins tried to keep him. he wanted out and was granted his wish

2- coles, felt like he wasn't getting enough balls thrown his way, after leading the team with 80 or 90 ?

3- lavar, he really wore out his welcome with all his crying, plus, he was never the same after his knee trouble, plus,plus, he was gonna be a HUGE cap hit

4- AA, not gone yet but probably soon to be gone. redskins thought he would be a good fit, they paid him a lot of money to come here, they found out he does not fit and that he is actually a liability so they bench him in favor of players that are out preforming him.

it's all pretty cut and dry if you ask me. i think every team goes through this very same thing , it's just that we follow the skins so close we don't really know what all goes on with the other teams.

any player movement out of the redskins organization gets more media coverage cause the skins are so active during the off-season and because they give out such huge amounts of money.

Re: ESPN: Archuleta: 'I don't like getting lied to'
 

Man, he is so gone. With a boot in his ass on the way out.

Good riddance.

Re: ESPN: Archuleta: 'I don't like getting lied to'
 

[quote=redsk1;264411]Its not really AA's fault he is getting overpaid. It's not his fault he has problems w/ covering. Why so much anger toward him? Why did our FO bring him here? It's alright to have an opinion but let's stop the personal attacks.

He very well may have a point. Who knows? I think we all can agree he's most likely gone though.[/quote]

It is not entirely his fault he's overpaid. But it is partially. Snyder and the coaches are to blame for overvaluing him. But Archuleta is also to blame for not being good enough to even remain in the starting lineup, let alone be a quality safety.

Re: ESPN: Archuleta: 'I don't like getting lied to'
 

What's up with players being pissed off at the 'Skins organization? What the hell is going on?!

Re: ESPN: Archuleta: 'I don't like getting lied to'
 

Id just tell that "fag" to stop plucking his eyebrows for real!

Re: ESPN: Archuleta: 'I don't like getting lied to'
 

What I don't get is the whole "lied to" crap. Lied to about what? Did the Redskins honestly say, "You'll never have to play coverage?" When Prioleau got hurt it was his job to step in. What were Gibbs and Williams supposed to do..."Adam...get in there, oh wait, nevermind, I forgot we agreed to never put you in coverage..." What an idiot...

Re: ESPN: Archuleta: 'I don't like getting lied to'
 

[quote=AlvinWalton'sNeckBrace;264431]What I don't get is the whole "lied to" crap. Lied to about what? Did the Redskins honestly say, "You'll never have to play coverage?" When Prioleau got hurt it was his job to step in. What were Gibbs and Williams supposed to do..."Adam...get in there, oh wait, nevermind, I forgot we agreed to never put you in coverage..." What an idiot...[/quote]

No, what he was saying was no one really sat him down and told him why he wasn't playing. Meantime, the coaches are doing pressers saying how impressed they are with 'Adam'.

No, no one came right out and told a lie to Arch, but in so many words he felt he was being deceived.

Re: ESPN: Archuleta: 'I don't like getting lied to'
 

still a load of crap. Did he really need Williams and Gibbs to sit down and hold his hand. They're the Redskins not the Archulettas...he's not special, you play like crap, you sit on the bench...I think it was pretty clear to everyone why he wasn't playing and when is Gibbs ever going to say "he sucks...he isn't playing well, blah blah blah." He's not going to do that ever, he tries to pump people up, so Arch needs to shut up...pack up his depends, and get out of town

Re: ESPN: Archuleta: 'I don't like getting lied to'
 

How bitter can you be when you are getting paid about 10 million dollars for one season of work? I don't understand what his grounds for complaint are. Obviously if the team thought that he gave them a better chance to win he would be on the field. They don't, so he's not. He'll get to walk away from this one season with more money than your average safety makes in a career. If his complaint is that he's a better player than he is being given credit for, that would be on thing and we could debate that, but it sounds like he is more pissed that the team won't be honest with him about how much he sucks! I mean, is he seriously angry that Williams and Gibbs don't get up there and say, Adam is no good, he can't cover, and we made a huge mistake on him?! It seems like they are trying to do the diplomatic thing in not throwing him under the bus, thus protecting his value as a free agent this season. Look at a guy like TJ Duckett, who has gotten a much rawer deal in my opinion, if you want a model of how to act under difficult circumstances.

Re: ESPN: Archuleta: 'I don't like getting lied to'
 

I was almost feeling sorry for AA until he came up with this one. I do not think that he was lied to at all and the honest assessment that he wanted came when they sat that azz on the bench for the remainder of the season.

Did he really want staff to say that he was playing sorry as hell to reporters when asked why he was sat down?...I think not

AA should've just sat down, accepted that he had a bad year and worked hard to improve his play in the offseason

the article was a really classless move on his part

Re: ESPN: Archuleta: 'I don't like getting lied to'
 

I don't have any idea whether Archuleta has been lied to or not because I don't know what has/hasn't been said to him behind closed doors.

What I do know is that it was the Redskins, not Archuleta, who made him the highest paid safety in the history of football. In order for them to have done that, you've got to believe they gathered 'round a table and said "Look, whatever it takes to get this guy we've got to pony it up because we just can't risk letting him get away, he's going to be our difference maker- he's [I]that[/I] good." And then- oops- he wasn't.

What's really new here? The Redskins have been paying top dollar for mediocre players on the open market for years now. No shock there. Now, they've got a pissed off player accusing the organization of lying to/misleading him. That's becoming a disturbingly common occurance as well.

It's time to stop shooting the messenger. Archuleta might have had a horrible season, but if he was drawing a journeyman's salary this wouldn't be a front page story and we'd all be shrugging it off as "we need another saftey."

Re: ESPN: Archuleta: 'I don't like getting lied to'
 

I think you guys missed the point of his complaint which was that nobody in the coaching staff sat down with him (him, not reporters) and told him why he is on the bench and what he can do to improve game. It's a valid complaint though it is quite clear to everyone watching the Skins why he is on the bench. Of course that doesn't mean the coaching can just go about their business and not have a sit down with him. It's common courtesy to tell someone why they were demoted and how can get out of the dog house.

Re: ESPN: Archuleta: 'I don't like getting lied to'
 

[quote=The Huddle;264444]I don't have any idea whether Archuleta has been lied to or not because I don't know what has/hasn't been said to him behind closed doors.

What I do know is that it was the Redskins, not Archuleta, who made him the highest paid safety in the history of football. In order for them to have done that, you've got to believe they gathered 'round a table and said "Look, whatever it takes to get this guy we've got to pony it up because we just can't risk letting him get away, he's going to be our difference maker- he's [I]that[/I] good." And then- oops- he wasn't.

What's really new here? The Redskins have been paying top dollar for mediocre players on the open market for years now. No shock there. Now, they've got a pissed off player accusing the organization of lying to/misleading him. That's becoming a disturbingly common occurance as well.

It's time to stop shooting the messenger. Archuleta might have had a horrible season, but if he was drawing a journeyman's salary this wouldn't be a front page story and we'd all be shrugging it off as "we need another saftey."[/quote]

You are right the FO are some awful talent evaluators. AA was not supposed to say "hey look here I am not really that good of a cover guy, aren't the tackler that you think that I am and I am going to get burned constantly so I do not think hat you should pay me that much money" ...but BY GAWD!!!! after the fact you would think that he would have enough sense to not say jack about the team that he stuck it to

Re: ESPN: Archuleta: 'I don't like getting lied to'
 

[quote=saden1;264445]I think you guys missed the point of his complaint which was that nobody in the coaching staff sat down with him (him, not reporters) and told him why he is on the bench and what he can do to improve game. It's a valid complaint though it is quite clear to everyone watching the Skins why he is on the bench. Of course that doesn't mean the coaching can just go about their business and not have a sit down with him. It's common courtesy to tell someone why they were demoted and how can get out of the dog house.[/quote]

I see where you are coming from but I can not see any professional, college nor high school team that goes over game films every Tuesday's or Wednesday's not pointing out to players what they did wrong if they had concerns. I really think that that was a bunch of hogwash...that is what these sessions are for

Re: ESPN: Archuleta: 'I don't like getting lied to'
 

I can understand that he believed that he was being lied to. Him remaining in the doghouse while coaches constantly told him he was doing well would confuse him, but I cannot believe that he doesn't know why he's in the doghouse. He's had the same bum wrap since St. Louie, there's no way he can't know that he's terrible in coverage

Re: ESPN: Archuleta: 'I don't like getting lied to'
 

During the process of negotiation with Archuleta and his agent, the team made clear the role they expected him to play. There was uncertaintity surrounding the status of Sean Taylor at the time, and they had made up their mind if Ryan Clark wanted more than they were willing to pay, they would let him walk because they wanted to up grade the position, and felt Archuleta would be a physical upgrade to Clark.

In reality ,there wasn't much in terms of negotiation, the Redskins made him an offer he couldn't refuse. They were well aware of his limited coverage skills, but they led him to believe he and Marcus Washington were going to be used in blitz packages, and that's what they were expecting from him. It was clear in September that Archuleta was not going to be the starter oposite Taylor. Pierson Prioleau was to be the starter, but when he got hurt on the opening kickoff, and Shawn Springs got injured, they could not play Archuleta the way they had intended to play him. When he speaks about being lied too, this is obviously what he is refering too. They contracted him to blitz, injuries foiled the plan, they had to use him, but in ways they were well aware he was not best suited. When we all witnessed he could not cover, he was left holding the bag with basically no place for him in the defense You really can't blame Archuleta for an experiment gone bad, the team should have taken more into consideration his limitations, and not been so willing to make such a huge financial commitment to a player that limited.

Re: ESPN: Archuleta: 'I don't like getting lied to'
 

[QUOTE=Longtimefan;264454]During the process of negotiation with Archuleta and his agent, the team made clear the role they expected him to play. There was uncertaintity surrounding the status of Sean Taylor at the time, and they had made up their mind if Ryan Clark wanted more than they were willing to pay, they would let him walk because they wanted to up grade the position, and felt Archuleta would be a physical upgrade to Clark.

In reality ,there wasn't much in terms of negotiation, the Redskins made him an offer he couldn't refuse. They were well aware of his limited coverage skills, but they led him to believe he and Marcus Washington were going to be used in blitz packages, and that's what they were expecting from him. It was clear in September that Archuleta was not going to be the starter oposite Taylor. Pierson Prioleau was to be the starter, but when he got hurt on the opening kickoff, and Shawn Springs got injured, they could not play Archuleta the way they had intended to play him. When he speaks about being lied too, this is obviously what he is refering too. They contracted him to blitz, injuries foiled the plan, they had to use him, but in ways they were well aware he was not best suited. When we all witnessed he could not cover, he was left holding the bag with basically no place for him in the defense You really can't blame Archuleta for an experiment gone bad, the team should have taken more into consideration his limitations, and not been so willing to make such a huge financial commitment to a player that limited.[/QUOTE]

I think it's crazy to think they brought Archuleta in to be essentially a third down blitz specialist. You don't give a guy a 10 million dollar sb to be a situational guy. Not at safety. I think what happened is, they had no idea how much Arch's coverage skills had deteriorated (which they would have if they had asked anybody else around the league). If they were fully aware of his coverage abilities and still gave him a 30 million dollar deal, then they are even dumber than we thought.