Civil Discussion About Religion
 

Is religion the force behind morality? Is Mahatma Gandhi going to hell because he wasn't a Christian? If you were to die today are you going to hell or heaven?

Are there any non-believers in the house (i.e. atheist and agnostics)? When did you stop, why did you stop, and what did your family members say when you stopped?

Re: Civil Discussion About Religion
 

dude, are you trying to start a war on warpath or what?

Re: Civil Discussion About Religion
 

You will burn in hell, saden1.

Of course, I'm agnostic, so there's only a 50% chance that I mean anything by that. My parents were lapsed Catholic hippies (who have since reformed to varying degrees), so I got no religion growing up. It's never been a part of my life. That said, I'm not so vain to believe that there is nothing bigger than me out there. However, I'm also not vain enough to think that the only sentient life in the universe is on this planet.

Re: Civil Discussion About Religion
 

Personally, I'm agnostic. To me, I have trouble believing as truth books supposedly written from 3rd, 4th, and 5th hand information. Many of those books translated many time from ancient languages and by hand. There's also the issue of books of the bible found that were omitted which seems odd to me.

I think religion can be a great force for people. If someone truly believes in prayer, then I think it helps. The mind is an extremely powerful healer.

As far as the heaven and hell thing. In my opinion, as long as you live what would be considered an honest life, I don't think there will be any issues. For instance, I don't feel eating pork will keep me from entering heaven.

As far as when did I stop and why did I stop. I never began. Part of the reason a lot of churches in the community I grew up in is their congregation's average age must be hovering around 55-60. They can't get any young people; my theory is that now days parents aren't forcing children to adopt their beliefs without exploring a bit on their own first, this leads to more people being either extremely casual (not going to church) about religion or become agnostic like myself.

One thing I'd like to clear up that sometimes people misunderstand. Agnostic is not the same as atheist. Agnostic means you believe that there's some sort of higher power, but you don't exactly claim to know what.

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[quote=12thMan;267521]dude, are you trying to start a war on warpath or what?[/quote]
No, I would hope everyone is an adult and can discuss these issues without blowing up.

I have noticed people flipping out for no reason, some people just need to grow up on this site.

Re: Civil Discussion About Religion
 

I'm a non-believer.

My family isn't very religous though I did go to bible school when I was really young.

To me evolution just makes sense. Organized religion doesn't.

Re: Civil Discussion About Religion
 

[quote=Daseal;267526]One thing I'd like to clear up that sometimes people misunderstand. Agnostic is not the same as atheist. Agnostic means you believe that there's some sort of higher power, but you don't exactly claim to know what.[/quote]

Actually, what you describe is an agnostic theist. A true agnostic believes that the existence of a higher power is unknowable. My personal beliefs bounce back and forth between the two depending on the day of the week.

Re: Civil Discussion About Religion
 

Organized religion is a joke. More often then not I've found it breeds hatred. It seems that when people take sides/show differences it's easy to call the other the "enemy". Religion has given people a "side" too many times. Mabye it's enevitable as humans, but religion plays a huge role in almost every significant conflict in our history.

As I've grown older I've begun to seperate from religion and shifted towards spirtuality. I think theres a distinct difference, and I'm a better person because of it.

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[QUOTE=Mattyk72;267529]I'm a non-believer.

My family isn't very religous though I did go to bible school when I was really young.

To me evolution just makes sense. Organized religion doesn't.[/QUOTE]

That reminds me of the south park episode...but all funniness aside.

I was born a Catholic and then converted to "Church of Christ" when I was 5ish. So I have been baptised twice...once at birth, once as an adult. I am not a typical Church of Christ believer though. They beleive that they are pretty much the only ones going to heaven...I totally disagree. I could go on and on debating the differences in my beliefs, but Matty made a comment about evolution.
I 100% feel that the theory of evolution can co-exist with the bible. I do not for a second think that if you beleive in evolution, you must therefore not agree with the bible. In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth...it's WHO, not HOW. A lot of people get stuck on the 6 days thing (and on the 7th He rested), but who is to say that God didn't create the earth WITH evolution? The bible is silent on how it was made most likely because it is irrelevant.
If it's the Adam and Eve story...well, did things not occur before Adam and Eve were created? Just because they were the first, does not mean they were the only. Otherwise we'd all be descendants of insest. I do think we evolved, and I do whole heartedly beleive in the big bang theory. I also beleive in God. There are many possible scenarios as to how all this happened, none of which I believe God was absent from, and none of which I beleive evolution was absent from. God created everything FROM evolution, it doesn't have to be one or the other.

Re: Civil Discussion About Religion
 

I think Jesse Ventura said it best when he was governor....Religion is a sham and a crutch for weak-minded people. JK, but isn't that seriously the greatest governor quote of all time?

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[quote=jsarno;267545]That reminds me of the south park episode...but all funniness aside.

I was born a Catholic and then converted to "Church of Christ" when I was 5ish. So I have been baptised twice...once at birth, once as an adult. I am not a typical Church of Christ believer though. They beleive that they are pretty much the only ones going to heaven...I totally disagree. I could go on and on debating the differences in my beliefs, but Matty made a comment about evolution.
I 100% feel that the theory of evolution can co-exist with the bible. I do not for a second think that if you beleive in evolution, you must therefore not agree with the bible. In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth...it's WHO, not HOW. A lot of people get stuck on the 6 days thing (and on the 7th He rested), but who is to say that God didn't create the earth WITH evolution? The bible is silent on how it was made most likely because it is irrelevant.
If it's the Adam and Eve story...well, did things not occur before Adam and Eve were created? Just because they were the first, does not mean they were the only. Otherwise we'd all be descendants of insest. I do think we evolved, and I do whole heartedly beleive in the big bang theory. I also beleive in God. There are many possible scenarios as to how all this happened, none of which I believe God was absent from, and none of which I beleive evolution was absent from. God created everything FROM evolution, it doesn't have to be one or the other.[/quote]

You and I share a VERY similar belief system.

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[QUOTE=RobH4413;267541]Organized religion is a joke. More often then not I've found it breeds hatred. It seems that when people take sides/show differences it's easy to call the other the "enemy". Religion has given people a "side" too many times. Mabye it's enevitable as humans, but religion plays a huge role in almost every significant conflict in our history.

As I've grown older I've begun to seperate from religion and shifted towards spirtuality. I think theres a distinct difference, and I'm a better person because of it.[/QUOTE]

Religion is what you make of it. Religion will be flawed because humans made it and run it. Just look at politics, humans created it, therefore it is flawed. God never tells anyone to have a religion. He tells them to have a personal relationship with Him and (using your words) have strong spirituality.
Just remember this, when you want to "blame religion", remember that #1- God NEVER agrees with killing in His name, so if you plan to, you are doing Satan's work, not His. #2- Having a religion is like being a fan of a football team. I go to church every Sunday to discuss things I beleive in with other followers that have similar beleifs. Just like I am on this site sith a bunch of people to discuss my beloved Skins and with people that have similar beliefs. We as humans love to congregate and separate. We will constantly divide amoungst ourselves. We create different groups...Republicans / Democrats, Lower / Middle / Upper class, poor / wealthy, smart / stupid. God didn't create the separation, WE did. We blame God (or try to), but He had nothing to do with it. Our sinning / human nature is what created all this. Why do you think a Catholic and a Baptist can't get along when it comes to "religion"? It's human behavior, not God.

Re: Civil Discussion About Religion
 

[quote=jsarno;267557]Religion is what you make of it. Religion will be flawed because humans made it and run it. Just look at politics, humans created it, therefore it is flawed. God never tells anyone to have a religion. He tells them to have a personal relationship with Him and (using your words) have strong spirituality.
Just remember this, when you want to "blame religion", remember that #1- God NEVER agrees with killing in His name, so if you plan to, you are doing Satan's work, not His. #2- Having a religion is like being a fan of a football team. I go to church every Sunday to discuss things I beleive in with other followers that have similar beleifs. Just like I am on this site sith a bunch of people to discuss my beloved Skins and with people that have similar beliefs. We as humans love to congregate and separate. We will constantly divide amoungst ourselves. We create different groups...Republicans / Democrats, Lower / Middle / Upper class, poor / wealthy, smart / stupid. God didn't create the separation, WE did. We blame God (or try to), but He had nothing to do with it. Our sinning / human nature is what created all this. Why do you think a Catholic and a Baptist can't get along when it comes to "religion"? It's human behavior, not God.[/quote]

I like the cut of your jib, jsarno. Despite your lack of faith in Vince Young.

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[QUOTE=djnemo65;267550]I think Jesse Ventura said it best when he was governor....Religion is a sham and a crutch for weak-minded people. JK, but isn't that seriously the greatest governor quote of all time?[/QUOTE]

Actually, from a complex standpoint, he's correct, from a simplistic standpoint (which is the way the majority of people view things) he's a moron.
All people want to fit in somewhere, some use drugs, some use sex, some use religion, some use sports. If you take very positive things away from religion then it's not at all a sham or a crutch for the weak minded. And Beleive me, a lot of positives can be taken away from religion. If you use it for your own beleifs, and to break down others, then yes, it is a sham and a crutch for the weak minded.
Sorry I will not divulge further, it would take at least 3 pages to actually explain the difference, but I hope you get the idea.

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[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection;267555]You and I share a VERY similar belief system.[/QUOTE]

You must be an intellegent individual. hahaha :D

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[QUOTE=onlydarksets;267560]I like the cut of your jib, jsarno. Despite your lack of faith in Vince Young.[/QUOTE]

Thanks man. Beleive it or not, I've always enjoyed most of what you've had to say as well.
I'd love to live in a world where you can disagree on something and not be verbally abused for it. It took me a long time to realize ( and I realized this long ago) that just cause someone doesn't agree with me, doesn't mean they are stupid or inferior. It just means they disagree. Who cares? Does it matter that I beleive Vince Young is overrated? Nope. (he is, but it doesn't matter) :D What matters is that we are all friends here and can carry on a conversation about something just because we can.
When someone gets angry over another persons personal belief, well, that in my mind, is the definition of simple minded. No two people will feel EXACTLY the same.

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I dont really know what I belive. I was confirmed as a Catholic, but dont really practice because I dont really belive it that much. Or maybe belive IN it is what I'm looking for.


I belive in a god, but other than that I dont really know. Evolution makes alot of sense to me, but theres just too many weird things that happen that make me belive in some sort of higher power, but what it is I really dont know.

Re: Civil Discussion About Religion
 

The Schneed's take:

I don't for one second believe hardly anything that's in the Bible. I don't really think there's a God (though I can't be 100% certain). I don't really think Jesus was the son of God. I think we evolved into our current state because a couple of chemicals came together and from there, survival of the fittest.

BUT... that doesn't mean the [U]lessons[/U] and [U]teachings[/U] in the Bible aren't great ways to live your life. Being giving, taking care of your fellow man, honoring your father and mother, honoring your wife, turning the other cheek, doing unto others, they are great lessons.

Whether God exists or not, or whether Jesus was the Son of God or not: Jimmy cracked corn and I don't care.

But I say to whoever made up those tall tales included in the Bible, I subscribe to your newsletter. I'd love to live my life like Jesus did, and I try to do so daily; whether he really was the Son of God or not, or whether he even actually existed or not, is neither here nor there to me. It's a great way to live your life, and that's the bottom line to me.

Re: Civil Discussion About Religion
 

Matty will love this... I quote the great band 311 and their song "Seems Uncertain":

Your denomination
Should be a private thing.
How about a spirit
For all human beings?

How could something well guided
Turn out to be divisive?
Mostly wondering
It seems uncertain.

Re: Civil Discussion About Religion
 

Without going into what I personally believe.

I don't see how all of this...meaning the earth, the universe, human life, the will to believe or not to believe, to love, to hate or be all together indifferent....what we know and what we don't know, can exist in such an 'organized state' without someone having actually creating it. I mean, even in chaos, eveything seems to know it's role and how it relates to everything else. Even when death is imminent, there's a sense or a natural awareness to save life, if you will. And even in death, there's a sense of loss.

The seasons, the climates and how the body reacts to them. And the incredible knowledge that doctors possess through the power of medicine to cure sickness and disease, in my opinion, point to someone higher than ourselves. I think some people look at scientific reasoning as a method to explain away God, if you will. I look at just the opposite, I think the existence of God explains science, His exsistence explains evolution, theory and so forth. Even the human body. It is created with such meticulous and complex detail, it almost seems very purposeful, very deliberate and intended.

I think for everything that was or is created, it had to be in somone's mind somewhere at some moment in time. I don't think everything just appeared, no more than things and thoughts we make and create everyday.

Re: Civil Discussion About Religion
 

[quote=Schneed10;267595]Matty will love this... I quote the great band 311 and their song "Seems Uncertain":

Your denomination
Should be a private thing.
How about a spirit
For all human beings?

How could something well guided
Turn out to be divisive?
Mostly wondering
It seems uncertain.[/quote]

Nice! Perfect way to sum things up. Great song too.

Re: Civil Discussion About Religion
 

I believe that I am the Creator but I must have hit my head on some celestial body and gotten some form of amnesia that caused me to forget how to be the Alpha and Omega. One day I fully expect to remember how to do the things I used to do like seperate Night and Day, Heaven and Earth and rip a rib out of a man to make a woman.

Oh, I go to a Catholic Mass service with my wife's family at 8:30 and my own Methodist church at 11:00 every Sunday.

I believe there is an ever-watchful but non-interfering God and I believe that a man named Jesus died for our sins. I'm still open minded about his "son of God" status, though. The idea of self-sacrifice for the good of the group weighs heavily in a lot of my decision making processes. Do unto others as you have them do unto you is another big one for me as well.

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There were quite a few questions put forth in this topic so it's kinda hard to address them all. I personally don't like the term "religion" because over time it has developed into more of a negative term. I mean, you can be religious about pretty much anything. I believe I have a relationship with God through Jesus Christ. I was born into a strong Christian family and church has always been apart of my life. I grew up in and still am apart of the Pentecostal denomination. It's what works for me, because I enjoy having more of a freedom in worship than what most other denominations offer. It's a shame that churches get too caught up in the details of their particular beliefs because as Christians, we all pretty much believe in the same thing at the end of the day.

One thing I have learned is that you can't force people to believe as you do. Quoting scriptures left and right to someone usually doesn't get much results. The Bible says that each person has to work out their own salvation. I believe my greatest witness is for me to live my life in front of others as Christ did. People watch your actions much more than they listen to your words. Sometimes I still struggle with issues, but it's comforting for me to know that God is gracious and merciful and He offers forgiveness when I fall. I have been blessed beyond measure with a wonderful husband and family, great friends and an awesome pastor and church I can count on. I couldn't ask for more.

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I really don't see how some people could believe in evolution. If you actually think about it, the theory says that people formed from rocks if you go all the way back to the beginning of it. Life is too complex to be made by accident.

The big bang is also pretty far-fetched. The first law of thermodynamics is that matter can not be created or destroyed, but matter would have had to have been created for the big bang theory to be true.

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My mother grew up Catholic, and when I was young I went to Catholic church. As I got older I went to a few other churches, including Baptist, Episcopalian, and Morman. The entire time, I was Athiest and I didn't involve myself much in the church. I always thought that Faith was a noble thing, and that organized religions sought to make an industry of it. So, I pretty much ignored all organized religion on the basis that it was a profit industry.

When I got to college I started to learn the different religions of the world. I have studied Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Zoroastrianism, Shinto, Ba'hai, blah, blah, etc. However, all from a student perspective -- not from a spiritual perspective. The best thing I learned from my studies was a proper definition of religion: Human transformation in response to perceived ultimacy. Once I applied this definition to religion, I was able to see that everything or anything can be a religion -- as long as it's something you perceive as ultimate. I realized that I perceived science as ultimate, and that my transformation in response to that perception was my religion.

Throughout my life, I became overwhelmed with the guilt of my sins and was strongly compelled to pray and repent. It helps during times of despair, and I value prayer. However, I wouldn't say that I pray TO anyone/anything, or that I pray FOR someone/something -- I pray to relieve my guilt, and nothing else. It's really kinda selfish.

Throughout my spiritual journey I have come to one conclusion: the details aren't important. Most religions are centered around details. For example: is there a God? What happens after death? Who is the prophet? How did we receive God's word? I don't think the answers to these questions are important. Yet, it seems most people seek religion based on those answers. It all seems so very illusory.

I am truly torn when it comes to religion and science. However, when I try to comprehend our universe it all seems so fantastical. I think, "here we are on this gigantic rock, spinning, and orbiting a massive fire ball." I think about our solar system, and the galaxies. I think about the billions upon billions of stars. Then I stop to think about what our universe is in. And what is THAT in? And so on, and so on -- it could never stop. So, the only way for me to make sense of it, is to say that it's not real -- it can't be, because it's just too unreal.

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it would take a long time to write down all the things i have to say on this subject, therefore, i'll give just what i believe.

i believe god created everything, including man
i believe adam and eve sinned
i believe every person is born a sinner because they have the "blood of adam", tainted blood from their earthly father.
i believe jesus was born of a virgin, therefore not having the "blood of adam"
i believe jesus willingly laid his life down for you and me
i believe jesus is the only way to heaven
i believe by admitting your a sinner and asking jesus to come into your life and be your personal lord and savior, you go to heaven
i believe that jesus was god come in the flesh
i believe in god the father, god the son and god the holy spirit


i was 22 years old when i (got saved) asked god to be my personal lord and savior. my life truly has been better ever since. god has blessed me so much more than i deserve.

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Almost every religion has ties to another one and stories that re more then alike so in my opinion they are all the same with only a few differences.

IMO there is a god up there but there is no need to go to chrch becuase they are conforming somthing that cant be conformed. People should not be able to tell others what to believe. Yes i would say im christian but that is to say I only believe in one god and to get to heaven you just have to live your life the best you can.

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[quote=Schneed10;267595]Matty will love this... I quote the great band 311 and their song "Seems Uncertain":

Your denomination
Should be a private thing.
How about a spirit
For all human beings?

How could something well guided
Turn out to be divisive?
Mostly wondering
It seems uncertain.[/quote]
311 is my favorite band

Re: Civil Discussion About Religion
 

p.s. im drunk

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Jsarno gets my vote for warpath governer!

I was born and raised Catholic. but like Robh, I've kinda seperated myself from religion.

I still have faith, Just not in humans. :(

btw, Wolfeskins post was well written and informative, I never knew why we were born with sin, Then right after reading it, I read his Signature and laughed out loud.

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[quote=steveo395;267660]I really don't see how some people could believe in evolution. If you actually think about it, the theory says that people formed from rocks if you go all the way back to the beginning of it. Life is too complex to be made by accident.[/quote]

I know a lot of doctors and scientists who would say something like "simple little man."

Life may seem complex to you, but those with scientific backgrounds and qualifications don't think so. Doctors know a great deal about how our bodies work.

Just because you can't comprehend the complexity of life doesn't mean that others can't.

And no, the theory does not say we formed from rocks. It says life formed from a combination of a couple amino acids. I think you need to read "Origin of Species" by Charles Darwin. That might help you gain a better understanding.

Sorry if I came across harsh in this post. I can understand people choosing to believe in certain religions or other faith based beliefs. But I can't possibly understand anyone who dismisses the theory of evolution. The evidence is OVERWHELMING. Evolution is not a belief, it's a WIDELY accepted scientific theory based on a great deal of actual research as opposed to the Bible, which is based on the writings of several people who lived 2000 years ago.

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[quote=jamf;267696]btw, Wolfeskins post was well written and informative, I never knew why we were born with sin, Then right after reading it, I read his Signature and laughed out loud.[/quote]


did you laugh because you thought it was funny or because you think i'm a hypocrit(sp).

just because you're a christian does'nt mean you have to stop joking around and having fun.

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See, we can really be civil about a touchy subject. I honestly and whole heatedly [URL="http://www.greatapetrust.org/player/video.php?vid=65"]believe[/URL] in [URL="http://www.greatapetrust.org/player/frame-main-video.php?vid=65"]evolution[/URL]. I mean the easiest answer to a question is to not answer it. That's how I perceive religion. You can't ask the tough questions and if you do you get generic answers that answers. God just exists, he sees all and hears all, everything happens for a reason. it's god's will, etc.

The whole world was created in 6 days just trips me out. Not to mention how [insert word] Ezekiel Bible is. How the heck is it possible that all the big religions began in the Middle East and most prophets are somehow related to each other? How come there are no native South American prophet? Perhaps I am putting too much thought into this :)

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[quote=Schneed10;267697] I can't possibly understand anyone who dismisses the theory of evolution. The evidence is OVERWHELMING. Evolution is not a belief, it's a WIDELY accepted scientific theory based on a great deal of actual research as opposed to the Bible, which is based on the writings of several people who lived 2000 years ago.[/quote]


without going into details, every evolutionary belief has been proved to be nothing more than theorys

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[QUOTE=steveo395;267660]I really don't see how some people could believe in evolution. If you actually think about it, the theory says that people formed from rocks if you go all the way back to the beginning of it. Life is too complex to be made by accident.

The big bang is also pretty far-fetched. The first law of thermodynamics is that matter can not be created or destroyed, but matter would have had to have been created for the big bang theory to be true.[/QUOTE]

OK, this is somewhat off the subject since I will comment on the big bang theory, but how is it far fetched? Matter can not be created or destroyed, but it can be expanded or reduced. Like a sperm and egg can turn into a 6 foot 230 pound man.
That being said, what you are standing on (earth) had to have came from somewhere, so the matter is proven because you're on it. So how is it so hard to beleive that a big bang occured to help push life on earth? The matter was there cause it's here now.
Now if you're referring to God being the matter, then I can see your point, but maybe He's not matter...I don't know. Everything comes from somewhere, but there has to be something that did not come from something...not everything can be created. 1 thing has to be ominant. 1 thing had to be there to create it all. Something had to start it all. Is that God? I say yes, it's a logical explanation to me.

About your comment, that life came from rocks...that's not completely true. They came from the ingrediants from those rocks that came together. God is very powerful and if he wanted to create us from dust / rocks, then He can.

Re: Civil Discussion About Religion
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;267697]

Sorry if I came across harsh in this post. I can understand people choosing to believe in certain religions or other faith based beliefs. But I can't possibly understand anyone who dismisses the theory of evolution. The evidence is OVERWHELMING. Evolution is not a belief, it's a WIDELY accepted scientific theory based on a great deal of actual research as opposed to the Bible, which is based on the writings of several people who lived 2000 years ago.[/QUOTE]

Hold on a sec...we, as humans, love to lump in evolution and the bible. The fact is the bible does not speak of evolution. This does not mean that since we believe in evolution the bible is incorrect, or that if we beleive in the bible that evolution is incorrect. Again I say, the bible is to answer the question of who, not how.
I don't mean to sound as if I don't beleive in evolution, cause I do, but waaay back everyone KNEW the world was flat, and there was plenty of evidence to convince everyone that it was true. OVERWHELMING evidence. So yes, evolution is a belief adopted by the scientific world. It can't really be proven 100%, just like the existance of God can't be proven 100%. Nor can either be disproven 100%. I am a Christian, and believe that God does exist, but I would not go so far as to say that it is FACT (not that you said that word) when it is opinion. Theory is just that...an opinion. However it is widely recognized throughout the science community that they are unsure of how everything first started. They can go back to the big bang time (or so) and have theories of how it all started. When you ask them where the rocks came from, they don't know, in fact a lot of scientists became Christians due to the fact that they can't figure it out and that it is obviously a design from a higher being. You can keep going farther and farther back until you can't go back anymore, then ask yourself what is left. In my opinion, it can only be God...but if you choose to believe there is none, then what is the answer?

Re: Civil Discussion About Religion
 

[QUOTE=saden1;267716]

The whole world was created in 6 days just trips me out. [/quote]

I look at it this way, whoever made the earth and universe obviously has the power to speed up the process to 6 days, or 1 second, or let it evolve over a billion years. I also leave the thought open that the people that translated the bible could have misinterpreted the 6 days, when it was 6 million years or something...but most of all, I prescribe to the theory that it doesn't matter. When I am being judged in front of God I doubt he's going to ask me "Did you beleive the world was created in 6 days or billions of years?" And if I answer the wrong way, I go to hell. I am assuming, to Him, it doesn't matter. If it did, he would have been WAAAY more specific.

[quote]Not to mention how [insert word] Ezekiel Bible is. How the heck is it possible that all the big religions began in the Middle East and most prophets are somehow related to each other? How come there are no native South American prophet? Perhaps I am putting too much thought into this :)[/QUOTE]

I didn't want to say this cause it sounds so anti-God, but what if God sent all these prophets to bring everyone to Him (as in God himself)? Why is it that almost every religion has 1 common denominator..God himself. Whether they call Him Allah or God is irrelevant. I look at it this way, God is all loving and understanding, and understands we are all flawed and eaily swayed, so why are there soooo many religions? Why give us that many religions and lead us to believe that if we choose the wrong one, we go to hell? I don't think he would. I think we will be judged on our life, and our love of God and our pursuit to act the way he wants us to. We are all saved by grace and grace alone, it's not up to me who makes it, but Him. He may choose to save all of us, or none of us. I prefer to think of God as someone that loves us, and grace will cover a wide array...even though it says in the bible the road to hell is wide and many will travel, but the road to heaven is narrow and few will find.
I feel that those who give up searching for Truth, simply because that's the easiest route, anger God. People say that evolution is widely recognized, therefore can't be dismissed...well even MORE people believe that there is a God of some sort...just taking a stab in the dark, but easily 90%+ do. So why is it easier to ignore the 90%+ of the world in relation to God, but follow the smaller group that only believes in evolution. (that's rhetorical)
I just feel it in my bones that there is a God, and my mind agrees. If there isn't one when I die, I lived a good life and have nothing to be upset over. However if I were a non believer and died and there IS a God, I'd be sweating bullets. Not that I prescribe to that theory as the reasoning to prove a God, just that it's a pretty solid way to look at things. Almost along the lines of "better to be safe than sorry."
Sorry for the ramble.

Re: Civil Discussion About Religion
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;267661]My mother grew up Catholic, and when I was young I went to Catholic church. As I got older I went to a few other churches, including Baptist, Episcopalian, and Morman. The entire time, I was Athiest and I didn't involve myself much in the church. I always thought that Faith was a noble thing, and that organized religions sought to make an industry of it. So, I pretty much ignored all organized religion on the basis that it was a profit industry.

When I got to college I started to learn the different religions of the world. I have studied Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Zoroastrianism, Shinto, Ba'hai, blah, blah, etc. However, all from a student perspective -- not from a spiritual perspective. The best thing I learned from my studies was a proper definition of religion: Human transformation in response to perceived ultimacy. Once I applied this definition to religion, I was able to see that everything or anything can be a religion -- as long as it's something you perceive as ultimate. I realized that I perceived science as ultimate, and that my transformation in response to that perception was my religion.

Throughout my life, I became overwhelmed with the guilt of my sins and was strongly compelled to pray and repent. It helps during times of despair, and I value prayer. However, I wouldn't say that I pray TO anyone/anything, or that I pray FOR someone/something -- I pray to relieve my guilt, and nothing else. It's really kinda selfish.

Throughout my spiritual journey I have come to one conclusion: the details aren't important. Most religions are centered around details. For example: is there a God? What happens after death? Who is the prophet? How did we receive God's word? I don't think the answers to these questions are important. Yet, it seems most people seek religion based on those answers. It all seems so very illusory.

I am truly torn when it comes to religion and science. However, when I try to comprehend our universe it all seems so fantastical. I think, "here we are on this gigantic rock, spinning, and orbiting a massive fire ball." I think about our solar system, and the galaxies. I think about the billions upon billions of stars. Then I stop to think about what our universe is in. And what is THAT in? And so on, and so on -- it could never stop. So, the only way for me to make sense of it, is to say that it's not real -- it can't be, because it's just too unreal.[/quote]

nice post

Re: Civil Discussion About Religion
 

I'm a non-believer but at the same time I'm not ready to dismiss anything. That's the one thing that really irks me about debates like this. Who are we to sit here and definitively say one side of the fence is wrong and one side is right. It's a very individualized thought process and everyone should respect other's opinions. For all we know we could ALL be wrong. Perhaps we're some sort of experimental ant farm for aliens. Hey, you never really know.

Re: Civil Discussion About Religion
 

Blah blah blah. Religion is simply something manifested by the human mind to provide comfort and solace when dealing with the unknown. Religion helps give humans the feeling that there is rhyme or reason to the world we live in. Religion provides the sense that there is a purpose to life: to live a good life and get into heaven. It provides comfort regarding the unknowns which humans face, like what happens to me when I die? Do I live on, or is the show over? Religion comforts humans; the presence of a higher power must surely mean that I'm in good hands, even when I'm entering the unknown: death.

People believe it because deep down they don't want to face the alternative: that when you die you go nowhere, your life is simply over. And that your life was not part of some grand scheme; you simply lived and died.

Those alternatives are scary, but they're the truth. Religion is just a crutch humans use to go about their daily lives in false comfort.