Gibbs takes the heat, but is Grilliams really to blame?
 

From day one Gibbs said that Williams is responsible for the defense, tell us who you want and we'll get him.. Let's look at some of the players not deemed worthy of $ in Grilliams system and what could have been..
MLB-Trotter.. Granted he struggled badly in DC but Williams never brought him to camp. Told him to stay away and cut him June 1st.. He's again become the rock of the Eagles LB corp.. This move was the precursor for the downfall of the defense..
OLB/MLB-Pierce.. Ok, so you let Trotter go, then you replace him with a faster younger version and you let HIM go.. Letting Pierce go is the single biggest error (moreso than Brunell) of the Gibbs II era. Keeping Trotter and Pierce would have avoided moving Marshall to MLB, had him as added depth, and drafting Merriman (see below) wouldn't have forced us to move this year's 2nd round pick for McIntosh.
CB-Smoot and Harris.. Spectacular? No. Solid, definitely. Better than Rogers and Wright? Without question. Now Harris was burnt more than anyone last year but as a nickel back he wasn't as bad as when he was pressed into duty and even then he wasn't as bad as Kenny Wrong. Keeping Smoot would have allowed us to draft Shawn Merriman which would make a huge difference in our defense.
S-Bowen & Clark.. Clark obviously moreso than Bowen is sorely missed but in the system Bowen was serviceable when pressed into duty. Losing Prielou was a huge blow no doubt, but Bowen was better than Vincent or Vernon Fox..

I know I'm re-stating the obvious with alot of things but the domino effect of letting Trotter go is devastating if you look at it.. Thanks Grilliams!:angry-smi

Re: Gibbs takes the heat, but is Grilliams really to blame?
 

Hindsight is always a bitch.

That being said, I still believe that a lot of this is GW's ego. He thinks he can make a star out of anyone.

Re: Gibbs takes the heat, but is Grilliams really to blame?
 

The irony is you're forgetting that Pierce was only put in there because Michael Barrow couldn't stay healthy enough to play.

However, up until this year Williams has done a good job so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for now.

Re: Gibbs takes the heat, but is Grilliams really to blame?
 

I agree with you except for what you think about Bowen. The man could hit, but he used to give up a lot of big plays by taking bad angles at tackles, I don't miss him too much.

Re: Gibbs takes the heat, but is Grilliams really to blame?
 

[quote=gabe1984;268121]I agree with you except for what you think about Bowen. The man could hit, but he used to give up a lot of big plays by taking bad angles at tackles, I don't miss him too much.[/quote]

Bowen's gone?[/sarcasm] Shit, I though he was still here and he just changed his number to #40!

Re: Gibbs takes the heat, but is Grilliams really to blame?
 

Trotter was garbage here. Not even playing at a level worthy of a roster spot. I think blaming Williams for not wanting a guy who had done nothing and looked 100% washed up is heaping on a little bit. Not giving Williams a bye on the other stuff which I agree with but Trotter was not a mistake. And his level of play in Philly hasd been only adequate if you ask a lot of fans. He is asked to do only a few things and he does them ok. His biggest help is in leadership. I am not crying over the loss of Trotter. Trotter leaving put Pierce in position to be the guy he is today. Who's to say Pierce isn't languishing on special teams if we keep Trotter?

Re: Gibbs takes the heat, but is Grilliams really to blame?
 

[QUOTE=jbcjr14;268123]Bowen's gone?[/sarcasm] Shit, I though he was still here and he just changed his number to #40![/QUOTE]

Bowen was better than AA. Anyone want to argue that?

Re: Gibbs takes the heat, but is Grilliams really to blame?
 

I wasn't arguing...I was implying they both weren't very good fits apparently for GW's plan.

Re: Gibbs takes the heat, but is Grilliams really to blame?
 

No one knew that Trotter was going to pan out as a stud middle linebacker. If you think about it we did sign Michael Barrow to become the starter at middle linebacker for us before his injury. I do not think that Pierce was even in our plans in the beginning he was just depth. The when the inury took place Pierce got his chance and was made a star by Gregg Williams. Not that I think we should haven't kept him but he was made a star by williams. He just has to understand you have to have players some of the time at key positions which I think he knows now. He will get this ship back together but it will take players.

Re: Gibbs takes the heat, but is Grilliams really to blame?
 

To be perfectly honest, we could start next season with the SAME PLAYERS we have now, and as long as they are healthy, would at LEAST be a top fifteen defense.

Re: Gibbs takes the heat, but is Grilliams really to blame?
 

I'm sorry, I'm not giving Wiliams the benefit of the doubt. He had one exceptional year, '04. During the '05 season the defense was getting thrashed for big plays the same way, and really it wasn't until that five game stretch toward the end that they hunkered down to finish in the top 10.

This past season seemed like a continuation of the 2005 season if you ask me. I get the feeling that if the Redskins field a top 15 defense next year that some may feel Williams has somehow redeemed himself. I differ, only because once you finish near the bottom one year, it's not difficult to start to climb the ladder in the other direction.

I think Gregg Williams is a solid, capable defensive coordinator in the NFL. I also think his perceived, and I say perceived because I don't personally know him, stems from him wanting to be and perhaps envionsioning himself as a head coach again, which is fine.

Re: Gibbs takes the heat, but is Grilliams really to blame?
 

Trotter isn't the kind of MLB that could lead a Williams' defense. He's just not heady enough. Trotter is best when he's in attack mode moving downhill. He's not a cover guy and he's not a guy that can QB your defense. Anyone that's still complaining about us letting him go just doesn't know jack about what this defense is all about.

The fact that GW didn't even want him in camp is telling. It tells you he clearly knew he wasn't the guy to run his D. Nuff said.

Re: Gibbs takes the heat, but is Grilliams really to blame?
 

[QUOTE=12thMan;268130]I'm sorry, I'm not giving Wiliams the benefit of the doubt. He had one exceptional year, '04. During the '05 season the defense was getting thrashed for big plays the same way, and really it wasn't until that five game stretch toward the end that they hunkered down to finish in the top 10.[/QUOTE]

Perhaps, but 2004 wasn't his first year coaching defense in the NFL

Re: Gibbs takes the heat, but is Grilliams really to blame?
 

The D line was seriously banged up in '05 and once they got healthy the entire D responded.

Re: Gibbs takes the heat, but is Grilliams really to blame?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;268134]Trotter isn't the kind of MLB that could lead a Williams' defense. He's just not heady enough. Trotter is best when he's in attack mode moving downhill. He's not a cover guy and he's not a guy that can QB your defense. Anyone that's still complaining about us letting him go just doesn't know jack about what this defense is all about.

The fact that GW didn't even want him in camp is telling. It tells you he clearly knew he wasn't the guy to run his D. Nuff said.[/QUOTE]

I agree. Trotter is a perfect fit for Jim Johnson's defense, but not GW's or anyone elses for that matter.

Put Trotter on anyone elses defense and he won't be nearly as good as he is under Johnson's scheme. He's the perfect definition of a "system" guy.

Re: Gibbs takes the heat, but is Grilliams really to blame?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;268137]The D line was seriously banged up in '05 and once they got healthy the entire D responded.[/quote]


That's true, but this year it was the secondary. Next year it could be both?

Re: Gibbs takes the heat, but is Grilliams really to blame?
 

That's what I'm saying and it's unfortunate. While you can't expect to have quality starting-type depth on both sides of the ball, I'm thinking you try and maybe find some people who are more resilient than people like Springs. I think if anything, that might clear some problems up. It seems like they always have something nagging them.

That's why I'm saying if each one comes back totally healthy.

Re: Gibbs takes the heat, but is Grilliams really to blame?
 

[QUOTE=12thMan;268141]That's true, but this year it was the secondary. Next year it could be both?[/QUOTE]

I think this year it was both.

Re: Gibbs takes the heat, but is Grilliams really to blame?
 

So let me ask you guys this; Since Trotter didn't work here, Pierce got shipped out because he was replaceble, and Marshall has been okay.....who [I]IS [/I]a good fit for Gregg Williams' defense at MLB??

Re: Gibbs takes the heat, but is Grilliams really to blame?
 

I think a healthy Marshall is good enough. In GW's defense you need a MLB who can cover since its such a blitz heavy defense. When you're blitzing corners and safeties, that only leave the LBs to cover. I think Gregg likes Marshall because of his coverage abiltilties plus he was a DB in College which gives him the advantage.

If Marshall was healthy, he would've had a far better year IMO. I think he should he bulk a little and work on his strength as well.

Re: Gibbs takes the heat, but is Grilliams really to blame?
 

[quote=12thMan;268147]So let me ask you guys this; Since Trotter didn't work here, Pierce got shipped out because he was replaceble, and Marshall has been okay.....who [I]IS [/I]a good fit for Gregg Williams' defense at MLB??[/quote]

Pierce was and I think Williams would admit letting him go was a mistake, Marshall can be when healthy. Either way we know who isn't... Trotter.

Re: Gibbs takes the heat, but is Grilliams really to blame?
 

Maybe I just have a bone to pick with Williams, that's all. In fact, I think I do.

It just seems the other DCs are more in the background doing their thing, rallying the troops and so forth.

I just hate seeing him doing his own little post game interviews with Kelly Johnson/Comcast.

Re: Gibbs takes the heat, but is Grilliams really to blame?
 

Trotter is a success in Philly because the MLB is not the QB of the defense, Dawkins is. Trotter is a meathead, and he does well in that role in Philly. GW needs a field general at that spot, and let's his FS be the meathead (Taylor).

Re: Gibbs takes the heat, but is Grilliams really to blame?
 

[quote=12thMan;268161]Maybe I just have a bone to pick with Williams, that's all. In fact, I think I do.

It just seems the other DCs are more in the background doing their thing, rallying the troops and so forth.

I just hate seeing him doing his own little post game interviews with Kelly Johnson/Comcast.[/quote]

I guess he's the only DC in the league that does interviews? Why is that a big deal?

Re: Gibbs takes the heat, but is Grilliams really to blame?
 

[QUOTE=12thMan;268161]Maybe I just have a bone to pick with Williams, that's all. In fact, I think I do.

It just seems the other DCs are more in the background doing their thing, rallying the troops and so forth.

I just hate seeing him doing his own little post game interviews with Kelly Johnson/Comcast.[/QUOTE]

I don't mind them but it's moreso for Kelli Johnson. :)

As for Matty's comments, how do we know he wasn't a fit, he was never given a chance AND is a mark of a great coach one that tries to adjust players to his system or tailor his system to his players?

Re: Gibbs takes the heat, but is Grilliams really to blame?
 

I do agree Paintrain. We always hear year after year about players not being drafted because they're a few inches in height or milliseconds away in speed from being a "prototype". Sometimes talent is just that...talent.

Re: Gibbs takes the heat, but is Grilliams really to blame?
 

[quote=Paintrain;268272]I don't mind them but it's moreso for Kelli Johnson. :)

As for Matty's comments, how do we know he wasn't a fit, he was never given a chance AND is a mark of a great coach one that tries to adjust players to his system or tailor his system to his players?[/quote]

How do we know about Trotter??

It's pretty obvious the guy isn't a cover LB. He's best suited for a downhill attacking style of D, which Philly does and that's why he's had so much success there. And it's probably why he was so quick to return there.

Coaches have their own systems and demand different things from different players. Trotter leaving and the demise of this defense 3 years later are not related at all.