Now we know why Brunell kept dinking and dunking
 

Sport Talk 980 has reported that Brunell underwent major shoulder surgery. My question is did Gibbs know about this during the season? And if so why did he keep sending him out there?

Re: Now we know why Brunell kept dinking and dunking
 

Who knows.

Perhaps it was something they felt he could play through, or maybe it was something minor initially and it just got worse.

It's a tough injury to accurately diagnose.

[url=http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/orthopedicsurgery/labrumtear.html]The Department of Orthopaedic Surgery[/url]

Re: Now we know why Brunell kept dinking and dunking
 

He had a torn labrum. ( spelling?) It's the same injury Brees had. If Gibbs knew about this and still kept sending him out there he needs to step down. I know it won't happen but this is just ridicules.

Re: Now we know why Brunell kept dinking and dunking
 

What a f*cked up season we had!! All of these injuries... Well, I for one and happy to hear about this. Makes me think that our poor playing was more related to injury than anything else.

Re: Now we know why Brunell kept dinking and dunking
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;268637]He had a torn labrum. ( spelling?) It's the same injury Brees had. If Gibbs knew about this and still kept sending him out there he needs to step down. I know it won't happen but this is just ridicules.[/QUOTE]

I really don't know what to make of it all. On the one hand, if he hurt in Dallas then how did he have his two "best" games of the year the following two weeks against Houston and Jacksonville.

On the other hand, is this what Portis was talking about in his 980 interview last week when he said guys were denying they were hurt to Gibbs and were doing more damage to the team by going out there and playing (or something along those lines he said)

I like Brunell, but regardless I think it's time to cut the cord with that relationship.

Re: Now we know why Brunell kept dinking and dunking
 

I'm speechless.

Re: Now we know why Brunell kept dinking and dunking
 

Brees' injury was severe and a complete tear from the bone.

Before you jump all over the Skins keep in mind an injury like this is not easy to diagnose because of how deep in the shoulder it is. Read the medical link I provided above. Medicine is not an exact science like some may want to believe.

Re: Now we know why Brunell kept dinking and dunking
 

Here's a piece of that article:

Because this cartilage is deep in the shoulder, it is very difficult to make the diagnosis of a torn labrum upon physical examination. There are several tests that the physician can perform which may indicate a torn labrum, but these tests are not always accurate. The other problem is that labrum tears take different forms as described above, and certain tests will detect one kind of tear but not another. Some physicians feel very confident that they can make the diagnosis of a labral tear upon physical examination, but this is controversial. There are not many scientific studies that show that physical examination is reliable for making the diagnosis of a labral tear. As a result of this uncertainty, other studies can be done to confirm the diagnosis if it is suspected.

Re: Now we know why Brunell kept dinking and dunking
 

I'm sure he was in pain though. How would you not know you need some medical attention on something that requires 5 months of rehab?

Re: Now we know why Brunell kept dinking and dunking
 

[quote=12thMan;268644]I'm sure he was in pain though. How would you not know you need some medical attention on something that requires 5 months of rehab?[/quote]

Pain tolerance differs depending on the individual. What hurts a lot to me might not bother you as much.

Think about it, a 36 year old QB on his last legs probably doesn't want to tell the team doctors that he's in a ton of pain if it means he could lose his job. Guys in this league play through pain and injury all the time, it's just par for the course.

Re: Now we know why Brunell kept dinking and dunking
 

And - remember, late in the year, even Santanna (who I tend to believe) was saying that Brunnell was still "winging" the ball around in practice. If the player is making plays in practice, and is denying any serious injury to the coaches, then it is hard to blame the coaches for not benching the player based on the injury.

I still like Mark as a back-up w/ a renegotiated contract, but he does seem to have a tendency towards "playing with pain" in a manner that does not help the team (two years ago). If he is altering his decision making based on the injury effects, then he needs to be honest about that with the Saunders and Gibbs.

Re: Now we know why Brunell kept dinking and dunking
 

[quote=Mattyk72;268642]Brees' injury was severe and a complete tear from the bone.

Before you jump all over the Skins keep in mind an injury like this is not easy to diagnose because of how deep in the shoulder it is. Read the medical link I provided above. Medicine is not an exact science like some may want to believe.[/quote]

The coaches should have diagnosed it when they kept watching the QB throw the ball 3 yards on 3-10.

Re: Now we know why Brunell kept dinking and dunking
 

He's a tough guy, no doubt. But his body is breaking down--time to take a step back. He'll be fine as a vet backup who take very few reps--that way he'll be healthy, and if we need him for a short stint, he'll do the job.

Re: Now we know why Brunell kept dinking and dunking
 

Matty's right, medicine isn't an exact science. that's why I wonder if he'll be recovered enough by camp to play. If not, I wouldn't be surprised if he retires.

Re: Now we know why Brunell kept dinking and dunking
 

[quote=freddyg12;268665]Matty's right, medicine isn't an exact science. that's why I wonder if he'll be recovered enough by camp to play. If not, I wouldn't be surprised if he retires.[/quote]

I highly doubt it. He has the look of one of those guys that just doesn't know when to hang it up like Kurt Warner or Goose Gossage. He'll have to be forced out of the game.

Re: Now we know why Brunell kept dinking and dunking
 

I don’t understand what you guys are so upset about. What was Gibbs supposed to do? At the beginning of the season everyone was screaming Super Bowl. He knew there was no way a rookie was going to get us there, so he had to give Brunell a shot at it, even if he wasn’t 100%. I didn’t hear you all screaming about him letting Portis play injured, and how he was an idiot for not playing Betts the entire time. MB is a veteran, he's knows the players and the system and he can keep calm and make good choices in stressful situations. Gibbs has never been a coach to pin all the glory on the QB. They come and go with him and he believes it takes a lot more than a great QB to win a Super Bowl. I don't find it surprising at all that he chose to keep Brunell in for as long as he thought there was a shot. You all go way over board criticizing MB. He was a decent QB, and was totally capable of getting us to a Super Bowl. This season cannot and should not be pinned on him.

Re: Now we know why Brunell kept dinking and dunking
 

[quote=hesscl34;268686]You all go way over board criticizing MB. He was a decent QB, and was totally capable of getting us to a Super Bowl. This season cannot and should not be pinned on him.[/quote]

I don't think it's the least bit overboard to criticize the decision to continue starting a 36 year old quarterback with an injury that keeps MLB pitchers out of the lineup for a full year, no matter who's decision it was. Brunell obviously knew something was wrong with his shoulder and I'm not 100% convinced the coaching staff didn't know about it at all.

And I agree that Brunell would have been fine if the rest of the team executed every other of the aspect of the game perfectly, but when the team needed a playmaker Brunell was nowhere to be found. We'll never know truly how long his shoulder was injured, but either way, the plug should have been pulled on his season far earlier.

Re: Now we know why Brunell kept dinking and dunking
 

[QUOTE=Southpaw;268697]I don't think it's the least bit overboard to criticize the decision to continue starting a 36 year old quarterback with an injury that keeps MLB pitchers out of the lineup for a full year, no matter who's decision it was. Brunell obviously knew something was wrong with his shoulder and I'm not 100% convinced the coaching staff didn't know about it at all.

And I agree that Brunell would have been fine if the rest of the team executed every other of the aspect of the game perfectly, but when the team needed a playmaker Brunell was nowhere to be found. We'll never know truly how long his shoulder was injured, but either way, the plug should have been pulled on his season far earlier.[/QUOTE]

They were talking on Andy Pollen's show today (after reading the report) that MB had been injured from week 2 on.

Re: Now we know why Brunell kept dinking and dunking
 

I think a lot of us here made speculation that Brunell was hurt during the season since his passing accuracy sucked anywhere beyond 10 yards.
I am quite annoyed at Brunell...he HAD to have had pain in the shoulder and never said a word???? Very disappointed.

Re: Now we know why Brunell kept dinking and dunking
 

[quote=irish;268698]They were talking on Andy Pollen's show today (after reading the report) that MB had been injured from week 2 on.[/quote]

Nice... So obviously it was known within the organization, and yet Gibbs would stand at the podium every week and talk about how well Brunell played and that he was fine, knowing he was injured... :banghead:

Re: Now we know why Brunell kept dinking and dunking
 

[quote=skinsfan69;268657]The coaches should have diagnosed it when they kept watching the QB throw the ball 3 yards on 3-10.[/quote]

I think now that the coaches new about the injury and it now makes sense why so many short passes where being used on the offensive game plan. It's too bad the coaching staff did not have more confidence in their back ups. What was the point of having Collins as the back up if he was never going to be used anyway??

Re: Now we know why Brunell kept dinking and dunking
 

[QUOTE=Southpaw;268701]Nice... So obviously it was known within the organization, and yet Gibbs would stand at the podium every week and talk about how well Brunell played and that he was fine, knowing he was injured... :banghead:[/QUOTE]

Well, like I [URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/268639-post5.html"]said[/URL]

Re: Now we know why Brunell kept dinking and dunking
 

[quote=TAFKAS;268708]Well, like I [URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/268639-post5.html"]said[/URL][/quote]

Yeah, but I find it hard to believe that if Brunell was hurt in week 2, that no one else in the organization was aware of it until after the season. If that is the case, and Brunell was sacrificing the season just so he could keep his starting job, he should be cut. And I don't mean cut from the team, I mean cut with a rusty butcher knife...

Re: Now we know why Brunell kept dinking and dunking
 

I doubt Gibbs knew the severity of his injury, either. Gibbs probably asked him "How's the shoulder?" Brunell, not wanting to look like a pansy in front of the coolest dude ever, says "A little sore but usually after a couple days rest it feels better".

Does anyone honestly think that Gibbs would think "Hmm, my super good buddy Mark has a severely torn labrum which will prevent him from performing his duties. He's told me how bad it is but, hell, I don't care. I really don't. I loooove losing."

Re: Now we know why Brunell kept dinking and dunking
 

[QUOTE=Southpaw;268712]Yeah, but I find it hard to believe that if Brunell was hurt in week 2, that no one else in the organization was aware of it until after the season. If that is the case, and Brunell was sacrificing the season just so he could keep his starting job, he should be cut. And I don't mean cut from the team, I mean cut with a rusty butcher knife...[/QUOTE]

Right, but remember hurt and injured are two different things. Maybe he was hurt, aggravated it (tore the labrum), was benched and now it's being made public.

Re: Now we know why Brunell kept dinking and dunking
 

[B]Brunell might miss entire offseason program[/B]

By [B]Len Pasquarelli[/B]
[B]ESPN.com[/B]

[URL="http://log.go.com/log?srvc=sz&guid=B5F6ACB4-D09D-464B-A584-68608179DDDD&drop=0&addata=1332:275:271721:275&a=1&goto=https://www.providiancard.com/bap/envwa/jumpApp.jsp?offer_id=esp02&banner_id=espngeneric010220070bnfl4146x0462500"][IMG]http://adsatt.espn.go.com/ad/sponsors/ESPN_In_House_Marketing/Jan_2007/espn-146x46-0062.jpg[/IMG][/URL]



Veteran quarterback [URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=2485"][COLOR=#0000ff]Mark Brunell[/COLOR][/URL] could miss the [URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=was"][COLOR=#0000ff]Washington Redskins[/COLOR][/URL]' entire offseason program, and might not be ready until training camp in July, following Monday surgery to repair labrum damage to his throwing shoulder.
The question of Brunell's availability in the offseason, coupled with his scheduled base salary of $5.2 million for 2007, leaves his future with the Redskins uncertain. The 14-year veteran lost his starting job to [URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=7201"][COLOR=#0000ff]Jason Campbell[/COLOR][/URL] at midseason, and the youngster will go to camp No. 1 on the depth chart, meaning that Brunell will almost certainly be asked to rework his contract.
Brunell, 36, faces a grueling four- or five-month rehabilitation stretch on his left shoulder. And his base salary and the salary cap charges for 2007 are exorbitant for a player regarded as a backup. Washington officials are expected to approach several players about restructuring their contracts in the offseason. Brunell readjusted his contract in 2006 to help the Redskins. He is under contract through the 2010 season.
Coach Joe Gibbs reiterated last week that he would like to retain Brunell for 2007. Doing so would give the Redskins a proven backup and provide a steadying hand for Campbell, the team's first-round selection in the 2005 draft.
But with Brunell unlikely to be able to throw at all until June at the earliest, the Redskins might have to make some contingency plans. Little-used veteran [URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=3116"][COLOR=#0000ff]Todd Collins[/COLOR][/URL] is the other quarterback on the roster.
Brunell started the first nine games of the 2006 season for the Redskins but, with the team out of playoff contention, Gibbs finally turned to Campbell, who didn't take a single snap as a rookie in 2005. Campbell completed 110 of 207 passes for 1,297 yards, with 10 touchdown passes and six interceptions, and a passer rating of 76.5.
The former Auburn standout, who compiled a 2-5 record as the starter, had some rough spots, but also demonstrated great athleticism and a very live arm.
[I]Senior writer Len Pasquarelli covers the NFL for ESPN.com.[/I]

Re: Now we know why Brunell kept dinking and dunking
 

So now the question is does it makes sense for Gibbs to bring Brunell back in a back up role even after a retructure?

Re: Now we know why Brunell kept dinking and dunking
 

[quote=12thMan;268735]So now the question is does it makes sense for Gibbs to bring Brunell back in a back up role even after a retructure?[/quote]

Even though I'm a fan of MB, I would say no. Don't Brunell back.. :(

Re: Now we know why Brunell kept dinking and dunking
 

I think that this now gives Brunell a very convenient excuse to retire. Not implying he's not hurt, I'm sure he is. Now he can say he's not quitting, he's retiring due to injury.

Re: Now we know why Brunell kept dinking and dunking
 

[quote=724Skinsfan;268738]I think that this now gives Brunell a very convenient excuse to retire. Not implying he's not hurt, I'm sure he is. Now he can say he's not quitting, he's retiring due to injury.[/quote]

I agree. At his age does he even want to tough out a grueling rehab to come back as a backup?? We'll see.

Re: Now we know why Brunell kept dinking and dunking
 

[quote=hesscl34;268737]Even though I'm a fan of MB, I would say no. Don't Brunell back.. :([/quote]

Wow, that's huge coming from you. I really do feel bad for Mark now.

Re: Now we know why Brunell kept dinking and dunking
 

[quote=12thMan;268741]Wow, that's huge coming from you. I really do feel bad for Mark now.[/quote]

I love my Skins more than MB....

Re: Now we know why Brunell kept dinking and dunking
 

Cut him loose now.

Re: Now we know why Brunell kept dinking and dunking
 

What are the cap ramifications if you cut him loose now versus holding on with a restructure or even MB retiring? I think that is the biggest problem with this whole thing is the cost associated with ANY of these decisions.

Re: Now we know why Brunell kept dinking and dunking
 

[quote=hesscl34;268686]I don’t understand what you guys are so upset about. What was Gibbs supposed to do? At the beginning of the season everyone was screaming Super Bowl. He knew there was no way a rookie was going to get us there, so he had to give Brunell a shot at it, even if he wasn’t 100%. I didn’t hear you all screaming about him letting Portis play injured, and how he was an idiot for not playing Betts the entire time. MB is a veteran, he's knows the players and the system and he can keep calm and make good choices in stressful situations. Gibbs has never been a coach to pin all the glory on the QB. They come and go with him and he believes it takes a lot more than a great QB to win a Super Bowl. I don't find it surprising at all that he chose to keep Brunell in for as long as he thought there was a shot. You all go way over board criticizing MB. He was a decent QB, and was totally capable of getting us to a Super Bowl. This season cannot and should not be pinned on him.[/quote]

I'm not knocking Brunell. I'm knocking Gibbs becasue Brunell got hurt in week two. And sorry but when your Qb has a major shoulder injury to his throwing arm he shouldn't be playing. And there was no way Brunell was taking anyone to the SB. Did you watch the last half of last season? Did you watch the 41 yards passing in the playoffs? If it wasn't for the defense we wouldn't have even made the playoffs. This is why we need a GM. A GM is not going to be as loyal to the players as a head coach/ team pres. Someone needs to cut the cord on this Gibbs/Brunell bullshit once and for all.

Re: Now we know why Brunell kept dinking and dunking
 

[quote=Southpaw;268712]Yeah, but I find it hard to believe that if Brunell was hurt in week 2, that no one else in the organization was aware of it until after the season. If that is the case, and Brunell was sacrificing the season just so he could keep his starting job, he should be cut. And I don't mean cut from the team, I mean cut with a rusty butcher knife...[/quote]

LOL! Your evil.

Re: Now we know why Brunell kept dinking and dunking
 

[quote=724Skinsfan;268713]I doubt Gibbs knew the severity of his injury, either. Gibbs probably asked him "How's the shoulder?" Brunell, not wanting to look like a pansy in front of the coolest dude ever, says "A little sore but usually after a couple days rest it feels better".

Does anyone honestly think that Gibbs would think "Hmm, my super good buddy Mark has a severely torn labrum which will prevent him from performing his duties. He's told me how bad it is but, hell, I don't care. I really don't. I loooove losing."[/quote]

Honestly I don't trust Gibbs anymore. Brunell has had 1/2 a good season since he's been here. It took Gibbs FOREVER to bench him in 04. Plus Gibbs has a history of this. Remember Theismann's last year? He was terrible and Gibbs wouldn't bench him. Same with Rypien the year after the Super Bowl. Rypien was playing real bad. I mean everyone outside of the Redskins organization ( and probably some inside ) was wondering why Brunell was still playing. What is Gibbs that much smarter than everyone else? I don't think so. So I'm not putting anything past Gibbs.

Re: Now we know why Brunell kept dinking and dunking
 

I think that Brunell's starting days are over, but I think that with a full year in the offense he would be able to win games for us if Campbell is injured next year (not to imply he could win back the starting job... I don't see that happening under any senario).

There seems to be a lot of Gibbs bashing for wanting to stick with his hand picked QB, but it seems like lots of coaches do that. Remember Spurrier and his Florida guys? How bout Parcells and Bledsoe (or Testiverdie?(sp)). Heck, would Eli be starting for the G-Men if his name wasn't Manning? A guy named Brees was traded away so that Marty could try out his hand picked guy (Rivers sure saved Marty's butt by playing so well). Regardless of what we all see and think, the fact is that Brunell was benched his first year, clearly outplayed Ramsey in the preseason of his second year and got his job back, and then was benched this year. Gibbs benched his hand picked guy twice, making him earn his way back onto the field after his benching.

I agree with those who think that Gibbs left Brunell on the field to long, but I am also smart enough to know that I'm a fickle fan, not an NFL coach.

Re: Now we know why Brunell kept dinking and dunking
 

Because the current staff has given taken upon themselves to perform the impossible task of A. running the franchise, B. judging and aquiring talent, and C. coaching. Now after screwing up at least 2 (if not three) of these duties on a regular basis, they don't have enough faith in their own talent evaluation abilities to make what most people would consider an "easy" decision of replacing an injured QB on the downside of his career with the quarterback of the future that was handpicked (using 3 draft picks).

The coaching side is hard enough but assuming that you can take care of the other duties related to running a franchise because you won 3 super bowls solely as a coach is either extremely stupid or inexcusably arrogant.

Our team has no grasp of reality and as long as the marketing machine is firing on all cylinders, nothing will change.

Never fear Redskins fans! Our time to shine above all of the other franchises is upon us!

The Washington Redskins - Undisputed, undefeated Champions of the offseason 7 years running...

Re: Now we know why Brunell kept dinking and dunking
 

Well, I don't know if anyone has heard this at this point, but sportscenter said that Gibbs wants Brunell back for next season. You probably already heard this since I am usually the last one to hear about things, but I saw a comment or two about not wanting Brunell back.
I personally have no problem with bringing him back for the simple fact that he'd be a good backup. It's either Brunell or Collins...i'll take brunell