Drafting a safety.
 

How does everyone feel about trying to get an athletic safety who's known for his coverage with a late roud draft pick? As everyone knows, this team has some serious issues at that position. I think it's a good idea because Archuletta sucks, Vincent is getting old, Prioleau is about 30 now, I'm not sold on Fox being a starter, and if we move Springs to safety, we all know how injury prone he is. There's a lot of good safeties in the NFL who were not taken in the first round.

Re: Drafting a safety.
 

Only 26 or 27 I believe. That's just entering the prime of his career. Honestly, it wasn't even an issue for two seasons. I think it's the problems up front causing the problems in back.

Re: Drafting a safety.
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;270303]Only 26 or 27 I believe. That's just entering the prime of his career. Honestly, it wasn't even an issue for two seasons. I think it's the problems up front causing the problems in back.[/quote]
Pioleau was born 08/06/1977 [url=http://www.redskins.com/team/;jsessionid=MNGPEEAOHCGC]Washington Redskins[/url]

Re: Drafting a safety.
 

I don't know how much he is going to command, but what about going after Ken Hamlin of the Seahawks?

Re: Drafting a safety.
 

Ryan Clark might come available.

Re: Drafting a safety.
 

I really like Reggie Nelson from UF. He has the speed, he can hit, and he can actually catch INT's. But he's not good enough to draft at 6. The only way we get him is if we trade down.

Re: Drafting a safety.
 

[QUOTE=Bill B;270311]I don't know how much he is going to command, but what about going after Ken Hamlin of the Seahawks?[/QUOTE]

He's good, but he'd be overpriced, and I think he's kinda old (correct me if I'm wrong). However, that would definitely seem like the typical FA signing for the Redskins. I'd rather not sign any FAs this year, unless a good value presents itself.

Re: Drafting a safety.
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;270319]He's good, but he'd be overpriced, and I think he's kinda old (correct me if I'm wrong). However, that would definitely seem like the typical FA signing for the Redskins. I'd rather not sign any FAs this year, unless a good value presents itself.[/quote]

If he is overpriced I'd like the Skins to show a little fiscal responsiblity.

I think Hamlin is not too old - he is 25 and has been in the NFL for 4 years - although I believe he had a severe head injury so I would not throw a lot of money at him.....

[URL="http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/seahawks/2005-10-17-hamlin-hospital_x.htm"]USATODAY.com - Seattle safety Ken Hamlin in intensive care after fight[/URL]

Re: Drafting a safety.
 

Hamlin is only 26 [url=http://www.seahawks.com/Team/Team.aspx]Seattle Seahawks - Team[/url] But, I don't think we should go after him because, and I could be wrong about this, I believe that he known more as a big hitter than a cover guy. His nick name is "Hitstick Hamlin." We already have a big hitter. I'd rather go after a guy in the draft. I would not be opposed to trading up draft picks, there seem to be a lot of good defensive linemen that we can get anyway.

Re: Drafting a safety.
 

[quote=gabe1984;270323]Hamlin is only 26 [URL="http://www.seahawks.com/Team/Team.aspx"]Seattle Seahawks - Team[/URL] But, I don't think we should go after him because, and I could be wrong about this, I believe that he known more as a big hitter than a cover guy. His nick name is "Hitstick Hamlin." We already have a big hitter. I'd rather go after a guy in the draft. I would not be opposed to trading up draft picks, there seem to be a lot of good defensive linemen that we can get anyway.[/quote]


AA and Taylor will be starting for Skins next year. We need to draft a stud D lineman, CB, or LB with the 6th pick. Hamlin isn't the answer.....

Re: Drafting a safety.
 

[quote=Mattyk72;270312]Ryan Clark might come available.[/quote]

That's the optimal situation. I think he's under contract which might command some kind of trade. :mad:

Re: Drafting a safety.
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;270337]That's the optimal situation. I think he's under contract which might command some kind of trade. :mad:[/quote]

He lost his starting job this year so he could be cut.

Re: Drafting a safety.
 

[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection;270337]That's the optimal situation. I think he's under contract which might command some kind of trade. :mad:[/QUOTE]

Well its not like he would go for anymore than a late round pick, and I'm fine trading a 6th or 7th away for Clark.

Re: Drafting a safety.
 

[quote=Mattyk72;270312]Ryan Clark might come available.[/quote]

If Clark is let go by the Steelers, could there be a bigger no-brainer in the world?

Bottom line: he worked well with ST, they communicated well, and they got results. He knows how we do things. F Ken Hamlin, F drafting somebody, F paying anybody a lot of money... if Clark is available, he should be our #1 target, hands down.

Re: Drafting a safety.
 

[quote=JDALY27;270336]AA and Taylor will be starting for Skins next year. We need to draft a stud D lineman, CB, or LB with the 6th pick. Hamlin isn't the answer.....[/quote]
AA will be starting for the Skins next year?

Re: Drafting a safety.
 

[quote=Mattyk72;270339]He lost his starting job this year so he could be cut.[/quote]

Ryan Clark isn't the answer either. Who was saying a word about him last year? Everyone wants to say he was awesome b/c the washingtonpost claims he was Taylor's only friend on the team. This is the NFL, if Taylor's play is impacted dramtically by having a friend on the team we're in trouble. Clark is a back up at best. We don't need to bring him back at all.

You know why Taylor had a sub-par year for his standards? NO SACKS UP FRONT!!!!! How many times did you see him chasing a running back who wasa not touched by a D lineman or LB????

We don't need to draft a safety, we're fine at that position.

Re: Drafting a safety.
 

[quote=gabe1984;270342]AA will be starting for the Skins next year?[/quote]

Yes! His Cap # is too large to part ways with him. The Defense as a whole had one of the worst years in Redskins history. AA will be back in the starting lineup next year. 100% guaranteed.

Re: Drafting a safety.
 

[quote=JDALY27;270345]Yes! His Cap # is too large to part ways with him. The Defense as a whole had one of the worst years in Redskins history. AA will be back in the starting lineup next year. 100% guaranteed.[/quote]

Sorry but you're dead wrong. If he's cut after June 1 we would save about $600k this year with approx. $7M hitting us in dead cap next year.

It can be done very easily.

Re: Drafting a safety.
 

[quote=Mattyk72;270348]Sorry but you're dead wrong. If he's cut after June 1 it would be a minimal hit this year with approx. $7M hitting us in dead cap next year.

It can be done very easily.[/quote]

I'm wrong!!???

What's the better option:

1) Maximizing AA for what the entire coaching staff saw as a major talent for our secondary. Wiping the slate clean and figuring out how best to utilize his talents with Taylor. AA could be a great force for our team next year.

or

2) Cutting him after June 1st. Left with another void to fill with another FREE AGENT. Eating 7million in dead cap the following year.

The decision looks like an easy one if you're a Redskins Defensive Coach.

Re: Drafting a safety.
 

I like Ryan Clark, but i don't think that he is neccessarily the answer. If he is cut, sure go for it, what can it hurt?

I'm more for drafting a cb, d-lineman, depending what we do w/ SS.

Re: Drafting a safety.
 

[quote=JDALY27;270351]I'm wrong!!???

What's the better option:

1) Maximizing AA for what the entire coaching staff saw as a major talent for our secondary. Wiping the slate clean and figuring out how best to utilize his talents with Taylor. AA could be a great force for our team next year.

or

2) Cutting him after June 1st. Left with another void to fill with another FREE AGENT. Eating 7million in dead cap the following year.

The decision looks like an easy one if you're a Redskins Defensive Coach.[/quote]

Yes, you are wrong. You said his cap # was too large to cut him and that's what I responded to. It's not too large to cut him as I and many others have outlined many times before on this subject.

Re: Drafting a safety.
 

[quote=Mattyk72;270355]Yes, you are wrong. You said his cap # was too large to cut him and that's what I responded to. It's not too large to cut him as I and many others have outlined many times before on this subject.[/quote]

7 million in dead cap the following year is too large to handle. You only do that when the player is so bad or such a problem its not worth seeing his face another year.

Is AA at that point in your opinion?

Do you not see a scenario where he bounces back and starts?

I can!

Re: Drafting a safety.
 

[quote=JDALY27;270357]7 million in dead cap the following year is too large to handle. You only do that when the player is so bad or such a problem its not worth seeing his face another year.

Is AA at that point in your opinion?

Do you not see a scenario where he bounces back and starts?

I can![/quote]

Vinny C., is that you?

Re: Drafting a safety.
 

[quote=12thMan;270359]Vinny C., is that you?[/quote]


Hahahaha, totally!

Re: Drafting a safety.
 

[quote=JDALY27;270360]Hahahaha, totally![/quote]

I mean seriously, you are definitely in the minority on this one:)

But, hey, if the guy comes back, then we'll have to live with it I guess. It just seems like the damage is irrepairable at this point.

Re: Drafting a safety.
 

[quote=12thMan;270363]I mean seriously, you are definitely in the minority on this one:)

But, hey, if the guy comes back, then we'll have to live with it I guess. It just seems like the damage is irrepairable at this point.[/quote]


I heard on sportstalk 980 a beat writer from St. Louis (the week before the St. Louis game this year) who was talking about Adam and he could not believe why anyone would gave him the money the Skins did. The beat writer was actually a Skins fan and from the DC area.

The beat writer basically stated that Adam had some serious back injuries (this is the one of the reasons St. Louis did not retain him) and that he is not the same player he was from his days in St. Louis and that his chances of recovering from these back injuries are basically none. If you talk to any doctor concerning a bad back - they never fully heal and for an athelte it is their worst nightmare.

So basically the beat writer says Adam is done as a player - the same guy you saw that got beat in coverage will be the same guy you see next year due to the back injury. Archuleta is basically done at this point as an effective player due to his bad back.

Re: Drafting a safety.
 

It sounded like he had a good exit interview w/the coaches & AA said good things about Gibbs. His teamates also said he handled himself well. Those are the positives, but his play & the potential that he was the mole in the Friend article are big negatives.
I think we should hope that he does stay, that somehow he recovers fully from his neck/back injury of a couple years ago. Some injuries do take players a couple of seasons to get back from, e.g. Trotter's knee injury when he was here. Maybe AA hasn't fully gotten back to his best form. He does move very stiffly, like someone w/a back injury.
I'm hoping he can regain his form, but it might not matter if the relationship w/the coaches has soured that much.

Re: Drafting a safety.
 

[QUOTE=freddyg12;270367]I'm hoping he can regain his form, but it might not matter if the relationship w/the coaches has soured that much.[/QUOTE]

I think that's the biggest reason AA will not be back next year: the coaches don't want him. Who cares about the cap hit? If the coaches don't like him, then he'll probably be gone -- big cap hit or not.

Re: Drafting a safety.
 

[QUOTE=12thMan;270363]I mean seriously, you are definitely in the minority on this one:)

But, hey, if the guy comes back, then we'll have to live with it I guess. It just seems like the damage is irrepairable at this point.[/QUOTE]

I agree with Jdaly. I don't think he is going anywere :(.

Re: Drafting a safety.
 

[quote=JDALY27;270357]7 million in dead cap the following year is too large to handle. You only do that when the player is so bad or such a problem its not worth seeing his face another year.

Is AA at that point in your opinion?

Do you not see a scenario where he bounces back and starts?

I can![/quote]

It's not too large to handle... they've handled bigger hits in the past so why are you so insistent that they can't handle it this time??

I don't see him bouncing back and starting at all. It just seems as if too many bridges have been burned and it would be best for both sides to cut their ties and start fresh.

Re: Drafting a safety.
 

[quote=JDALY27;270357][B]7 million in dead cap the following year is too large to handle.[/B] You only do that when the player is so bad or such a problem its not worth seeing his face another year.

Is AA at that point in your opinion?

Do you not see a scenario where he bounces back and starts?

I can![/quote]

This is incorrect. The Redskins seem to have a lot of money tied up in cap figures for the 2008 season (currently stands at $102 million against the $116 million projected cap), but $60 million of it is tied to base salaries which can easily be renegotiated (and will be as the team has historically done). For example, saying goodbye to Brunell sometime before the 2008 season would clear his $6.5 million salary off the books and create almost enough space to handle Archuleta's $7 million deadcap hit alone. In addition, guys like Jansen, Samuels, R Thomas, Portis, Springs, and Marcus Washington are all scheduled to make $4 million or higher in 2008 base salaries. These can easily be renegotiated this time next year to clear another $10-$20 million in 2008 cap space, if the team needs.

The team has plenty of flexibility to not only cut Archuleta, but also cut Brandon Lloyd this year if they wanted to. Should they try to cut both, then they'd be more restricted in free agency. I don't think they'll do that, but they easily have the cap flexibility to create the space they need in both 2007 and 2008.

Re: Drafting a safety.
 

i siad this in another post but We all remember what a beast Matt Bowen was b4 he hurt his knee... wasnt it like 5 sacks in the first 3 games? But he was a liability in coverage too. GW was trying to get a guy like that in AA but benched him for being so weak against the pass, which SOMETIMES is reflective of the pass rush (or lack there of)... but hes a good enough athlete to play in the NFL and for us, maybe we should keep him IF HE WILL RESTRUCTURE to earn a chance prove himself.

Re: Drafting a safety.
 

[QUOTE=skinsWill;270388]i siad this in another post but We all remember what a beast Matt Bowen was b4 he hurt his knee... wasnt it like 5 sacks in the first 3 games? But he was a liability in coverage too. GW was trying to get a guy like that in AA but benched him for being so weak against the pass, which SOMETIMES is reflective of the pass rush (or lack there of)... but hes a good enough athlete to play in the NFL and for us, maybe we should keep him IF HE WILL RESTRUCTURE to earn a chance prove himself.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I'd be in favor of keeping AA at the vet minimum, or close to it. However, I can't see ANY way he'd do that. He's not going to give money back, and we're not going to convert his base salary into signing bonuses as far as restructuring goes.

Re: Drafting a safety.
 

What kind of leverage do you think he'll have: "OK coach, yes I DID get beaten like Malcolm's fiancee each game, but do you really think I'm going to take a pay cut?!"

Re: Drafting a safety.
 

[quote=skinsWill;270388]i siad this in another post but We all remember what a beast Matt Bowen was b4 he hurt his knee... wasnt it like 5 sacks in the first 3 games? But he was a liability in coverage too. GW was trying to get a guy like that in AA but benched him for being so weak against the pass, which SOMETIMES is reflective of the pass rush (or lack there of)... but hes a good enough athlete to play in the NFL and for us, maybe we should keep him IF HE WILL RESTRUCTURE to earn a chance prove himself.[/quote]

Good thought on restructuring AA, but the point is moot on creating cap space for 2007 or 2008. He's on the books to make the vet minimum base salary in 2007, and only $2 million in roster bonus and base salary combined in 2008.

If you're going to try to reduce a player's cap hit by asking them to take a paycut, the only way the cap number can go down is if they reduce the base salary or reduce the roster bonus. Most of Archuleta's cap hit in 2007 and 2008 is tied to his signing bonus. There's no way a player will actually agree to pay back part of his signing bonus. And since Arch is scheduled to make the vet minimum in 2007, you can't go any lower than that.

With Arch, the choices are simple:

1) Keep the bum.
2) Cut him before June 1 and take the $7.6 million cap hit in 2007.
3) Cut him after June 1, save $600K in space in '07, and take the $7 million cap hit in 2008.

Asking for a paycut isn't an option, simply because there's no pay to cut in '07.

Re: Drafting a safety.
 

i understand what your gettin at and your right, he would have no reason to, i was thinking along the lines of restructuring to a more incentive laden deal, but why would he do that either? I guess im still just hoping that we didnt make such a horrible decision getting after him. I was really hoping we could use him like we did Bowen, but w/ the injuries we had this year on DL and CB we couldnt really run alot of those packages w/o people taking deep shots as soon as we bring that package in.

Re: Drafting a safety.
 

[quote=Schneed10;270403]Good thought on restructuring AA, but the point is moot on creating cap space for 2007 or 2008. He's on the books to make the vet minimum base salary in 2007, and only $2 million in roster bonus and base salary combined in 2008.

If you're going to try to reduce a player's cap hit by asking them to take a paycut, the only way the cap number can go down is if they reduce the base salary or reduce the roster bonus. Most of Archuleta's cap hit in 2007 and 2008 is tied to his signing bonus. There's no way a player will actually agree to pay back part of his signing bonus. And since Arch is scheduled to make the vet minimum in 2007, you can't go any lower than that.

With Arch, the choices are simple:

1) Keep the bum.
2) Cut him before June 1 and take the $7.6 million cap hit in 2007.
3) Cut him after June 1, save $600K in space in '07, and take the $7 million cap hit in 2008.

Asking for a paycut isn't an option, simply because there's no pay to cut in '07.[/quote]


Schneed you are dead on as far as cap savings. In addition the NFL implemented another rule after the Lavar Arrington fiasco that prohibits a player from returning a signing bonus in order to gain cap credits. When Lavar "returned" $4 million of his bonus the Skins got this credited to their cap, but after this happened the NFL changed the rule and teams no longer can gain cap space for this type of transaction. So even if AA said "here take back part of my signing bonus" the Skins would not get any credit for the refund.

Re: Drafting a safety.
 

We need to draft dline and then a corner later in the draft. It would be great if we could trade down in the first round and pick up some extra picks. We also need some decent backup oline and another LB too.

Re: Drafting a safety.
 

Safety is the last thing they need to worry about right now. D-line and MLB are much bigger holes. They will do fine with the guys that are already on the team. Just like any sport, you need to be strong in the middle. Stopping the run is goal #1 just listen to any of the embarrassing press conferences.

Re: Drafting a safety.
 

[quote=Grim21Reaper;270478]Safety is the last thing they need to worry about right now. D-line and MLB are much bigger holes. They will do fine with the guys that are already on the team. Just like any sport, you need to be strong in the middle. Stopping the run is goal #1 just listen to any of the embarrassing press conferences.[/quote]I agree. I think our safety solution is in house. The D-Line is a much bigger problem. We are old at the ends, weak at the tackles. We also need to bring in a veteran MLB with good cover skills.

This year our line was being blown off the ball in the run game and getting little push in the pass game. I think Andre Carter is bad for our philosophy, but we could build a different philosophy around his skills. That would require us to replace the other 3 guys. Sign a CB, Sign a MLB, draft on the DL.