Dan Henning back to the Redskins?
 

[url=http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/sports/football/nfl/carolina_panthers/16495108.htm]Charlotte Observer | 01/19/2007 | Henning proud of time with Panthers[/url]

Should Henning decide to stay in the game, expect his next job to be on the staff of an old friend such as Dallas' Bill Parcells or Washington's Joe Gibbs, possibly in an advisory position.

Re: Dan Henning back to the Redskins?
 

Advisory position? Have those ever panned out? I think we did the same thing with Bill Arnsparger with the defense in 1999. Seems like it's just a symbolic gig for old buddies doing each other a favor for some cash.

More importantly, do we need yet another offensive "mastermind" for this team?

Re: Dan Henning back to the Redskins?
 

Henning being available is a year too late I think. He would have been a better fit if we could have brought him in last year instead of Saunders.

Re: Dan Henning back to the Redskins?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;271162]Henning being available is a year too late I think. He would have been a better fit if we could have brought him in last year instead of Saunders.[/quote]

Exactly.

Re: Dan Henning back to the Redskins?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;271162]Henning being available is a year too late I think. He would have been a better fit if we could have brought him in last year instead of Saunders.[/quote]

By the way, Saunders can coach circles around Henning. Do you have any idea how bad the Panthers offense has been the last couple of years with him at the helm? I'm sure he's a nice fellow, but his offensive schemes have been average at best.

Re: Dan Henning back to the Redskins?
 

i can't see him coming to either place!how about atlanta though?

Re: Dan Henning back to the Redskins?
 

[quote=ncskinsfanec;271209]By the way, Saunders can coach circles around Henning. Do you have any idea how bad the Panthers offense has been the last couple of years with him at the helm? I'm sure he's a nice fellow, but his offensive schemes have been average at best.[/quote]

Too many people get all caught up in this coaching stuff. Most of the teams in the NFL run the same plays for the most part. The Panthers had O-Line problems and Delhomme was up and down all year. No one had as bad a running game than the Panthers. Not much the coach can do when the players are not getting it done. Saunders and Martz plays look great when they have the best O-line, Warner in his prime, LJ, Tony G., Holt, Bruce, Faulk, Holmes and so on. But when they go to Det. and Wash. and the players are not as good then I guess their schemes all of a sudden suck?? Players win in the NFL, not coaches.

Re: Dan Henning back to the Redskins?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;271216]Too many people get all caught up in this coaching stuff. Most of the teams in the NFL run the same plays for the most part. The Panthers had O-Line problems and Delhomme was up and down all year. No one had as bad a running game than the Panthers. Not much the coach can do when the players are not getting it done. Saunders and Martz plays look great when they have the best O-line, Warner in his prime, LJ, Tony G., Holt, Bruce, Faulk, Holmes and so on. But when they go to Det. and Wash. and the players are not as good then I guess their schemes all of a sudden suck?? Players win in the NFL, not coaches.[/quote]

Yep, that's all true, but there must have been something wrong with him if he got fired, don't you think? By the way, I didn't think Saunders scheme sucked this year, and it's only going to get better as the players get more and more comfortable with it. Inventive coaching does make a difference and if you need any further proof look at how good (or bad) that offensive coordinator for the Raiders did this season, you know the one who was running a bed and breakfast before he was hired. Too many people get caught up in this coaching stuff because coaching makes a huge difference! Coaches and players play an equal hand in whether a team wins or losses!

Re: Dan Henning back to the Redskins?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;271216]Too many people get all caught up in this coaching stuff. Most of the teams in the NFL run the same plays for the most part. .....
.... Players win in the NFL, not coaches.[/quote]


Wow... that's a pretty brazen series of statements... I have to disagree.

Please Explain the most recent NFL dynasty (who is poised to take another championship this year) led by Belichick....

The only Constant on the team has been Brady. Who else... Matt Light? They got rid of Lawyer Milloy, and everyone said the team was going to fall apart... nope.

Then Ty Law. Willie McGinnist. Adam Vinatieri. David Givens, Deion Branch, David Patten, blah blah blah blah blah... and this year Asante Samuels will be gone, unless he pulls a Bruschi and takes less money to stay there, which he wont...

They keep ditching their "best" players and keep winning and winning and winning. That's a tribute to what coaching can do in this league.

I understand that you need talent to win. Im not going to argue that, and I don't think Belichick is fielding a team of Division IIA talent players and taking them to the playoffs every year... but I doubt Norv Turner or Jim Fassel would ever take the same team to the SB...

Re: Dan Henning back to the Redskins?
 

[quote=Beemnseven;271161]Advisory position? Have those ever panned out? I think we did the same thing with Bill Arnsparger with the defense in 1999. Seems like it's just a symbolic gig for old buddies doing each other a favor for some cash.

More importantly, do we need yet another offensive "mastermind" for this team?[/quote]


Amen. This "advisory role" stuff is a bunch of crap- it's all about favors and debts, nothing more.

Personally, I've pretty well had it with the old "name" coaches, and one more season like this past one and I'll be including Joe Gibbs on that list. Screw these walks down memory lane- bring in the new ideas and fresh blood!

Re: Dan Henning back to the Redskins?
 

[QUOTE=ncskinsfanec;271222]Yep, that's all true, but there must have been something wrong with him if he got fired, don't you think? ... Inventive coaching does make a difference and if you need any further proof look at how good (or bad) that offensive coordinator for the Raiders did this season ... Coaches and players play an equal hand in whether a team wins or losses![/QUOTE]

Who knows the reasons he will be let go -- personal conflict with the head coach, team moving in a different direction, maybe Henning wants out -- coaches who part with their current team doesn't necessarily mean there is something wrong with them.

The Raiders are a bad analogy - that team sucks. You have a first round bust in Robert Gallery, a slow, overrated running back in Lamont Jordan, a live locker room grenade in Randy Moss, and three bad quarterbacks.

Your last statement, though, is exactly right. You need both great coaching and great players. Belichick didn't have that in Cleveland, but he has it now in New England. I think the reason the Pats have been so good even thought they lose big name players is they have the front office to go out and find quality replacements -- and that's the other key along with coaching and players - a fantastic front office. Put those three together and you practically can't lose.

Re: Dan Henning back to the Redskins?
 

[quote=ncskinsfanec;271222]Yep, that's all true, but there must have been something wrong with him if he got fired, don't you think? By the way, I didn't think Saunders scheme sucked this year, and it's only going to get better as the players get more and more comfortable with it. Inventive coaching does make a difference and if you need any further proof look at how good (or bad) that offensive coordinator for the Raiders did this season, you know the one who was running a bed and breakfast before he was hired. Too many people get caught up in this coaching stuff because coaching makes a huge difference! Coaches and players play an equal hand in whether a team wins or losses![/quote]

I never said Saunders sucked. I actually like the diversity he brings. Although I hope he stays committed to the run. I have a feeling if Gibbs and Buges was not here we would be throwing it all over the place which makes me nervous. We simply don't have the players to run that type of offense.

Tom Walsh may suck as an OC but he had no QB and no O-line. That = a bad offense. Oakland's offense didn't get any better when they removed him did it?

Re: Dan Henning back to the Redskins?
 

[quote=canthetuna;271227]Wow... that's a pretty brazen series of statements... I have to disagree.

Please Explain the most recent NFL dynasty (who is poised to take another championship this year) led by Belichick....

The only Constant on the team has been Brady. Who else... Matt Light? They got rid of Lawyer Milloy, and everyone said the team was going to fall apart... nope.

Then Ty Law. Willie McGinnist. Adam Vinatieri. David Givens, Deion Branch, David Patten, blah blah blah blah blah... and this year Asante Samuels will be gone, unless he pulls a Bruschi and takes less money to stay there, which he wont...

They keep ditching their "best" players and keep winning and winning and winning. That's a tribute to what coaching can do in this league.

I understand that you need talent to win. Im not going to argue that, and I don't think Belichick is fielding a team of Division IIA talent players and taking them to the playoffs every year... but I doubt Norv Turner or Jim Fassel would ever take the same team to the SB...[/quote]

Bill B. is a great NFL coach. No doubt about it. But they have had a 30-31 year old running the offense the last few years. Do you think Josh M. knows more about NFL offense than Martz, Saunders or even Norv Turner? Probably not. He's simply got a great QB. Brady is carrying the offense. He's got Caldwell, 100 year old T. Brown and Gaffney at WR?????? That's insane. Brady makes it all go on offense. He's also got two stud TE's. But if Brady gets hurt they are done.

On defense they have had some losses. Key losses in the secondary. And to overcome some of the losses is simply amazing. But remember they have a great linemen in Seymour and two VERY underrated players in Vince Wilfork and Ty Warren. I think all three are number one picks and all hold down the run. The LB's are also solid. Vrabel, Colvin and Tedy B. are also as good as anyone set of LB's.

By no means am I saying Bill B. and his staff can't coach cause I would take them over the Skins staff in a heartbeat. Or any staff for that matter. But without the players I mentioned they are not a good team.

Re: Dan Henning back to the Redskins?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;271264]I never said Saunders sucked. I actually like the diversity he brings. Although I hope he stays committed to the run. I have a feeling if Gibbs and Buges was not here we would be throwing it all over the place which makes me nervous. We simply don't have the players to run that type of offense.

Tom Walsh may suck as an OC but he had no QB and no O-line. That = a bad offense. Oakland's offense didn't get any better when they removed him did it?[/quote]

Another one of those, agree to disagree matters. Your opinions are certainly well put though!

Re: Dan Henning back to the Redskins?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;271270]Bill B. is a great NFL coach. No doubt about it. But they have had a 30-31 year old running the offense the last few years. Do you think Josh M. knows more about NFL offense than Martz, Saunders or even Norv Turner? Probably not. He's simply got a great QB. Brady is carrying the offense. He's got Caldwell, 100 year old T. Brown and Gaffney at WR?????? That's insane. Brady makes it all go on offense. He's also got two stud TE's. But if Brady gets hurt they are done.

On defense they have had some losses. Key losses in the secondary. And to overcome some of the losses is simply amazing. But remember they have a great linemen in Seymour and two VERY underrated players in Vince Wilfork and Ty Warren. I think all three are number one picks and all hold down the run. The LB's are also solid. Vrabel, Colvin and Tedy B. are also as good as anyone set of LB's.

By no means am I saying Bill B. and his staff can't coach cause I would take them over the Skins staff in a heartbeat. Or any staff for that matter. But without the players I mentioned they are not a good team.[/quote]

You think Belichick is better than Gibbs, or the Pats staff is better than the Skins staff? I think the Skins staff is very good, but they just couldn't get it done this season, though.

Re: Dan Henning back to the Redskins?
 

[quote=ncskinsfanec;271209]By the way, Saunders can coach circles around Henning. Do you have any idea how bad the Panthers offense has been the last couple of years with him at the helm? I'm sure he's a nice fellow, but his offensive schemes have been average at best.[/quote]

I like Saunders but Henning isn't a slouch either.

He was a convenient fall guy for their struggles this season. They had plenty of other problems that this article points out such as injuries, lack of turnovers, poor starting field position, etc.

[quote]"I'm probably a lot more conservative in my politics than I am in my football," he said. "We coached here under a certain (ball control) philosophy and I think we did a pretty good job of it."


Several factors contributed to the offensive woes in 2006. Carolina was last in the league in kickoff and punt returns, and also forced 22 turnovers, down from 42 the previous season. That combination proved disastrous for the Panthers' field position -- in 2006 they started 80 drives from inside their 20, compared with 50 the season before.


There are some on the team who believe Henning and the others were merely convenient targets for the team's failures. One offensive starter said, "I guess they had to do something. Nobody wants to be sitting around a year from now knowing nothing had been changed."
[/quote]

Re: Dan Henning back to the Redskins?
 

[quote=ncskinsfanec;271276]You think Belichick is better than Gibbs, or the Pats staff is better than the Skins staff? I think the Skins staff is very good, but they just couldn't get it done this season, though.[/quote]

BB and his staff are HANDS DOWN BETTER. Gibbs 1, different story. No one was better than Gibbs and Ritchie. No one!! But Gibbs 2? Where are the half time adjustments? Why all the time outs to think about kicking FG's? Why don't we attack the other teams weakness on offense? Did you notice how NE played Minn and how we played Minn? Now I know we don't have Tom Brady but NE ( and Miami for that matter w/ Harrington) played 4-5 WR sets becasue they knew Minn was very tough to run against. They made Minn's defense look stupid by throwing 10-20 yard passes the whole game. WHEN DOES OUR OFFENSE DO THIS? NEVER!!! Any NFL QB should be able to throw medium range passes, especially when you have 50 WR's on your roster. NE has cast offs for crying out loud. But they game planned for that specific team and it seems we never ever do this. Our game plan ( on offense) is try and run everyone over. Well that shit is not working against top run teams. You have to adjust but it seems we never do. That's pure coaching.

And don't get me started on GW this past year. Do you notice how NE's corners are always in the Indy WR's faces? Jacking them up to disrupt the timimg? Did our defesne do this against Indy? No. We sat back in zone and let them pass all over us and didn't get physical. If your going to get beat at least try and knock someone on their ass. That's coaching!

Yes the players sucked this year but the coaching needs to get better too. Way better.

Re: Dan Henning back to the Redskins?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;271279]BB and his staff are HANDS DOWN BETTER. Gibbs 1, different story. No one was better than Gibbs and Ritchie. No one!! But Gibbs 2? Where are the half time adjustments? Why all the time outs to think about kicking FG's? Why don't we attack the other teams weakness on offense? Did you notice how NE played Minn and how we played Minn? Now I know we don't have Tom Brady but NE ( and Miami for that matter w/ Harrington) played 4-5 WR sets becasue they knew Minn was very tough to run against. They made Minn's defense look stupid by throwing 10-20 yard passes the whole game. WHEN DOES OUR OFFENSE DO THIS? NEVER!!! Any NFL QB should be able to throw medium range passes, especially when you have 50 WR's on your roster. NE has cast offs for crying out loud. But they game planned for that specific team and it seems we never ever do this. Our game plan ( on offense) is try and run everyone over. Well that shit is not working against top run teams. You have to adjust but it seems we never do. That's pure coaching.

And don't get me started on GW this past year. Do you notice how NE's corners are always in the Indy WR's faces? Jacking them up to disrupt the timimg? Did our defesne do this against Indy? No. We sat back in zone and let them pass all over us and didn't get physical. If your going to get beat at least try and knock someone on their ass. That's coaching!

Yes the players sucked this year but the coaching needs to get better too. Way better.[/quote]

Why do think Gibbs, with the exception of last year, has struggled so much in his second incarnation as coach? Why haven't we seen the Skins play now like the teams of the 80's and early 90's?

Re: Dan Henning back to the Redskins?
 

[quote=ncskinsfanec;271286]Why do think Gibbs, with the exception of last year, has struggled so much in his second incarnation as coach? Why haven't we seen the Skins play now like the teams of the 80's and early 90's?[/quote]


Why are we allowing an exception for last year? Or were you referring to the 2005 season..?

Either way your question is the one on the hearts and minds of every skins fan everywhere...

Re: Dan Henning back to the Redskins?
 

[quote=canthetuna;271290]Why are we allowing an exception for last year? Or were you referring to the 2005 season..?

Either way your question is the one on the hearts and minds of every skins fan everywhere...[/quote]

What do you think? I was referring to the 10-6, 2005 season.

Re: Dan Henning back to the Redskins?
 

[quote=ncskinsfanec;271286]Why do think Gibbs, with the exception of last year, has struggled so much in his second incarnation as coach? Why haven't we seen the Skins play now like the teams of the 80's and early 90's?[/quote]

Plain and simple. He coaches not to lose. He was bad in 04. But he gets a pass for that year. 05 was better. But he should have realized that starting Brunell in 06 was going to be a mistake becasue Brunell was slumping the last half of 05. Then he left Brunell in too long in 06. He did this in 04 too. It's like he's scared to let young guys play. The whole Rocky M. thing was just a joke too. Holdman's not a playmaker. That's not adjusting to today's NFL. IMO he gets one more year and then we have to move on. Give me someone like Sean Payton or Mangini. Two young coaches that coach not to lose. And I bet you the OC on NE, Josh MacDaniels is going to be an NFL coach within 3-5 years. Enough of this glory days BS. That was 14 -15 years ago?

Re: Dan Henning back to the Redskins?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;271296]Plain and simple. He coaches not to lose. He was bad in 04. But he gets a pass for that year. 05 was better. But he should have realized that starting Brunell in 06 was going to be a mistake becasue Brunell was slumping the last half of 05. Then he left Brunell in too long in 06. He did this in 04 too. It's like he's scared to let young guys play. The whole Rocky M. thing was just a joke too. Holdman's not a playmaker. That's not adjusting to today's NFL. IMO he gets one more year and then we have to move on. Give me someone like Sean Payton or Mangini. Two young coaches that coach not to lose. And I bet you the OC on NE, Josh MacDaniels is going to be an NFL coach within 3-5 years. Enough of this glory days BS. That was 14 -15 years ago?[/quote]

Yeah, like the Ditka quote, "If you live in the past, you die in the past." I still have faith in Gibbs, though, a ton of faith for that matter. I don't think the final chapter's been written on his great coaching career yet! I would be right there with you, and a lot of other Skins fans for that matter, living in complete dejection and hopelessness, if it wasn't for that '05 playoff season. That season showed me that he can still get it done! I think the right adjustments will be made heading toward the '07 season, and all this doom and gloom talk will hopefully be silenced!

Re: Dan Henning back to the Redskins?
 

no more coaches. please.

Re: Dan Henning back to the Redskins?
 

I like Henning but the last thing we need is another offensive coach.

Re: Dan Henning back to the Redskins?
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;271279]BB and his staff are HANDS DOWN BETTER. Gibbs 1, different story. No one was better than Gibbs and Ritchie. No one!! But Gibbs 2? Where are the half time adjustments? Why all the time outs to think about kicking FG's? Why don't we attack the other teams weakness on offense? Did you notice how NE played Minn and how we played Minn? Now I know we don't have Tom Brady but NE ( and Miami for that matter w/ Harrington) played 4-5 WR sets becasue they knew Minn was very tough to run against. They made Minn's defense look stupid by throwing 10-20 yard passes the whole game. WHEN DOES OUR OFFENSE DO THIS? NEVER!!! Any NFL QB should be able to throw medium range passes, especially when you have 50 WR's on your roster. NE has cast offs for crying out loud. But they game planned for that specific team and it seems we never ever do this. Our game plan ( on offense) is try and run everyone over. Well that shit is not working against top run teams. You have to adjust but it seems we never do. That's pure coaching.[/QUOTE]

I know what you're saying here, and I agree -- Gibbs has coached like a scared rabbit this time around.

But I think you've answered your own question -- New England has Tom Brady, we had Mark Brunell.

That opening game against Minnesota was maddening. The Skins came out with the same level of intensity they showed all preseason -- the intensity of a corpse. It set the tone for the season, and the gameplan likely wouldn't have mattered as long as the players performed like they were 85 years old.

Re: Dan Henning back to the Redskins?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;271296]Plain and simple. He coaches not to lose. He was bad in 04. But he gets a pass for that year. 05 was better. But he should have realized that starting Brunell in 06 was going to be a mistake becasue Brunell was slumping the last half of 05. Then he left Brunell in too long in 06. He did this in 04 too. It's like he's scared to let young guys play. The whole Rocky M. thing was just a joke too. Holdman's not a playmaker. That's not adjusting to today's NFL. IMO he gets one more year and then we have to move on. Give me someone like Sean Payton or Mangini. Two young coaches that coach not to lose. And I bet you the OC on NE, Josh MacDaniels is going to be an NFL coach within 3-5 years. Enough of this glory days BS. That was 14 -15 years ago?[/quote]

I agree whole-heartedly. One more year without success and that should be it. What would be the point in seeing a fifth season? Wouldn't that be enough embarassement for everybody- the fans, the franchise, and Gibbs himself?

I'm glad this topic is getting more airing. I, too, am tired of all this "wake up the echoes/Lord of the Rings/glory days" crap. Despite the late push to the playoffs in '05, I believe Gibbs II has been a failure across the board- personel decsions, game-planning, in-game coaching. 21-27 and one playoff appearance in three years is the one and only bottom line. Based on the pattern established thus far I see no reason to feel that Washington will be dramictically better next year (8-8, maybe), something I feel is unacceptable considering the time and money that will have been invested in this coaching regime by the end of next season.

I will always love Gibbs for what he's meant to this franchise- the guy was one of my childhood heroes. But at some point it stops mattering what you did 15, 20, 25 years ago. This is 2007, not 1982 or 1991. At some point you either need to win or go home.

Re: Dan Henning back to the Redskins?
 

I feel like the field of top quality head coaches in the NFL has expanded since Gibbs first tenure. Assistants seem to have more responsibility and are better prepared and there's a lot more "thinking" involved because you can't count on just having a whole team of top flight talent for years to come.

So I don't think it's so much that Gibbs has lost a step. I just think he's not a cut above most of the rest anymore. The irony, of course, that a lot of these new coaches probably learned a lot from watching film of Gibbs back in the '80s

Re: Dan Henning back to the Redskins?
 

[quote=TAFKAS;271555]I feel like the field of top quality head coaches in the NFL has expanded since Gibbs first tenure. Assistants seem to have more responsibility and are better prepared and there's a lot more "thinking" involved because you can't count on just having a whole team of top flight talent for years to come.

So I don't think it's so much that Gibbs has lost a step. I just think he's not a cut above most of the rest anymore. The irony, of course, that a lot of these new coaches probably learned a lot from watching film of Gibbs back in the '80s[/quote]

Possibly, but whatever the case the bottom line is that his methods are not producing on a consistant basis, and that's what he's getting paid to do. It's hard to blame the players at this point because he's in his third year of having final say on all personel matters.

If he's no longer a cut above the rest, I think we should go out and find someone who is. One more year.

Re: Dan Henning back to the Redskins?
 

As long as the structure for acquiring players for this team stays intact, it won't matter who the coach is. Giving up draft picks for heymakers in the free agent market, while HOPING they pan out has not, and will not work. It's one thing if draft picks don't work out - you still have next years draft and a bit more cap space to work with to make it right.

But when you mortgage the future for a quick fix, well ... we know what happens then.

Re: Dan Henning back to the Redskins?
 

[quote=Beemnseven;271645]As long as the structure for acquiring players for this team stays intact, it won't matter who the coach is. Giving up draft picks for heymakers in the free agent market, while HOPING they pan out has not, and will not work. It's one thing if draft picks don't work out - you still have next years draft and a bit more cap space to work with to make it right.

But when you mortgage the future for a quick fix, well ... we know what happens then.[/quote]

The problem is that Gibbs embraces the very structure you've pointed out as lacking. As de facto GM as well as coach, there is very little about this organization that can't be traced back directly to Gibbs.