Brunell
 

Can anyone please explain to me how his signing helped the organization. He is Joe Gibb's great mistake. He is my worst nightmare as a Redskin fan. That is how I feel. He got about 25 million more than he ever deserved. No offense, but try to prove me wrong and I will make you look like an idiot. Remember two years out of three he has been the field general of a bad bad bad bad very bad bad overpaid team. I hope he opts out and tests the market, but I promise you he won't. If he does then I will change my mind. Otherwise he is a curse to the team. IMO.

Re: Brunell
 

:bdh:

Re: Brunell
 

[quote=wilsowilso;275974]Can anyone please explain to me how his signing helped the organization. He is Joe Gibb's great mistake. He is my worst nightmare as a Redskin fan. That is how I feel. He got about 25 million more than he ever deserved. No offense, but try to prove me wrong and I will make you look like an idiot. Remember two years out of three he has been the field general of a bad bad bad bad very bad bad overpaid team. I hope he opts out and tests the market, but I promise you he won't. If he does then I will change my mind. Otherwise he is a curse to the team. IMO.[/quote]

I cannot. They could have signed him for almost nothing and there have been so many Free Agents who would have been better. Garcia is just one name that comes to mind and I don't like him at all.

Re: Brunell
 

[quote=wilsowilso;275974]Can anyone please explain to me how his signing helped the organization. He is Joe Gibb's great mistake. He is my worst nightmare as a Redskin fan. That is how I feel. He got about 25 million more than he ever deserved. No offense, but try to prove me wrong and I will make you look like an idiot. Remember two years out of three he has been the field general of a bad bad bad bad very bad bad overpaid team. I hope he opts out and tests the market, but I promise you he won't. If he does then I will change my mind. Otherwise he is a curse to the team. IMO.[/quote]OK, I'll bite, but why don't you state your case first on why he is worse than the Duckett trade, the Lloyd trade, the Archuleta signing, and even the Carter signing. These moves were pretty clearly worse, so I'm interested in your arguement.

Re: Brunell
 

[quote=Redskins_P;275976]:bdh:[/quote]


I am saying straight up Brunell is the worst worst and ultimately worst mistake of the last decade at least. I just wanted to say that.

Re: Brunell
 

[quote=wilsowilso;275980]I am saying straight up Brunell is the worst worst and ultimately worst mistake of the last decade at least. I just wanted to say that.[/quote]Okay, that's a pretty ridiculous statement.

I'm going to hear you out though. Make your case...

Re: Brunell
 

[quote=GTripp0012;275982]Okay, that's a pretty ridiculous statement.

I'm going to hear you out though. Make your case...[/quote]

Alright it will take a second.

Re: Brunell
 

[quote=Grim21Reaper;275977]I cannot. They could have signed him for almost nothing and there have been so many Free Agents who would have been better. Garcia is just one name that comes to mind and I don't like him at all.[/quote]The pissing away of the 3rd rounder was pretty unesscessary. But IMO (and everyone elses) that doesnt make him the worst move ever, considering we've done that pretty much every year.

Re: Brunell
 

can we all just agree that our FO has made a lot of bad moves recently and move on? there's no light at the end of the tunnel, but we can always hope for blind luck...

Re: Brunell
 

Paging Dr. Kevorkian...

Re: Brunell
 

[quote=70Chip;276000]Paging Dr. Kevorkian...[/quote]Hahahaha

Re: Brunell
 

Are you serious?

The poor dead Brunell horse is still getting abused. Oh the humanity!

Re: Brunell
 

[quote=GTripp0012;275982]Okay, that's a pretty ridiculous statement.

I'm going to hear you out though. Make your case...[/quote]

Should I start with the contract that was so way way over the top that it made the management team look like fools. That wasn't a good idea for the rest of the league to to think we are a team willing to pay big money for garbage. Remind me how that was good for us?

Re: Brunell
 

You know what's really scary? If Campbell struggles and Brunell is still here we'll be doing these threads all next season. Pass the valium on the left hand side. For my part, I'm still a solid #2.

Re: Brunell
 

I guess you all forget Brunell is under contact for over six million dollars next year. Until I see Gibbs give up the idea for good I have my major concerns.

Re: Brunell
 

[QUOTE=Redskins_P;275976]:bdh:[/QUOTE]
Oh Barbaro :(

Re: Brunell
 

[quote=wilsowilso;276005]Should I start with the contract that was so way way over the top that it made the management team look like fools. That wasn't a good idea for the rest of the league to to think we are a team willing to pay big money for garbage. Remind me how that was good for us?[/quote]It wasn't. It wasnt in the case of Brunell, or any of these guys:

Antwaan Randle El
Andre Carter
Adam Archuleta
Brandon Lloyd
David Patten

I still don't see how you can think that Brunell was the worst acquistion Gibbs has made.

Re: Brunell
 

[quote=wilsowilso;276007]I guess you all forget Brunell is under contact for over six million dollars next year. Until I see Gibbs give up the idea for good I have my major concerns.[/quote]I doubt any team has a better backup then Brunell. Some teams have high potential backup guys, such as Quinn Gray in JAX or Matt Schaub in ATL, but these guys haven't proven themselves yet.

Garcia's better, but I'm assuming hes going to be starting somewhere.

Great depth at the QB position isn't a bad thing, and although Brunell is making starter money, the contract was written for a starter. I doubt hes here in 2008.

Re: Brunell
 

I like him as a backup. He could come in for a game or two. Knows the system. He would have fresh legs, fresh arm. They certainly can't have Collins as the main backup.

Re: Brunell
 

[quote=70Chip;276014]I like him as a backup. He could come in for a game or two. Knows the system. He would have fresh legs, fresh arm. They certainly can't have Collins as the main backup.[/quote]I would cut Collins. You save almost as much cap room as you would cutting Brunell and you get twice the QB. We can go bargain basement with the 3rd stringer, like a system college QB/clipboard holder (UDFA), or we can follow the new trend and only take 2 QBs into the season.

Either way, its a better option then restructuring for that 1.5 mil, thats for sure.

Re: Brunell
 

Don't mean to rehash an issue that we all are very well aware of, but I have a major fear that the curse of Brunell needs to be exercised as soon as possible. I don't want him as a backup. I want him to go away.

Re: Brunell
 

[quote=wilsowilso;276018]Don't mean to rehash an issue that we all are very well aware of, but I have a major fear that the curse of Brunell needs to be exercised as soon as possible. I don't want him as a backup. I want him to go away.[/quote]Who do you want to replace him?

And whats with all this curse talk?

Re: Brunell
 

[quote=GTripp0012;276019]Who do you want to replace him?

And whats with all this curse talk?[/quote]

The curse of the most ridiculous football contract in the history of mankind.

Re: Brunell
 

[quote=wilsowilso;276020]The curse of the most ridiculous football contract in the history of mankind.[/quote]I was certain that was Archuleta.

33 million for a safety who doesn't play? How can Brunell's expensive deal possibly be more ridiculous then that?

I still want to know what player in the NFL or the draft you think should replace MB.

Re: Brunell
 

[quote=GTripp0012;276017]I would cut Collins. You save almost as much cap room as you would cutting Brunell and you get twice the QB. We can go bargain basement with the 3rd stringer, like a system college QB/clipboard holder (UDFA), or we can follow the new trend and only take 2 QBs into the season.

Either way, its a better option then restructuring for that 1.5 mil, thats for sure.[/quote]


Yeah, I like that. I wonder how strong the Saunders/Collins marriage is though? Saunders might balk. But, he's just the OC. Like it or lump it. Take it down the street and dump it.

I would like to get a 3rd QB, though. Just for developmental reasons. I think the arena league is a good training ground. They have to get rid of it so fast, which is the direction the NFL has gone. Quick, quick quick. Beathard would have been all over that arena league grabbing talent.

Re: Brunell
 

[quote=GTripp0012;276021]I was certain that was Archuleta.

33 million for a safety who doesn't play? How can Brunell's expensive deal possibly be more ridiculous then that?

I still want to know what player in the NFL or the draft you think should replace MB.[/quote]

Wait I forgot about Archuletta.. It might be close, but they gave Brunell more than Arch three years ago and I really don't care who replaces Brunell. I just want him to go home and sit on his pile of money and do good for mankind.

Re: Brunell
 

[quote=70Chip;276022]Yeah, I like that. I wonder how strong the Saunders/Collins marriage is though? Saunders might balk. But, he's just the OC. Like it or lump it. Take it down the street and dump it.

I would like to get a 3rd QB, though. Just for developmental reasons. I think the arena league is a good training ground. They have to get rid of it so fast, which is the direction the NFL has gone. Quick, quick quick. Beathard would have been all over that arena league grabbing talent.[/quote]I think my current position on the Saunders/Gibbs marriage may surprise some people:

I dont care. I don't care whose offense we run. I dont care who calls the plays. I dont care if we mix the systems together. I don't care if Gibbs loves Al or if Al loves Gibbs or if they secretly want the other one gone. I don't care if Saunders up and quits. None of that matters. I want the right decisions to be made and we have two of the brightest offensive minds ever to coach on our staff. We have a talented group of offensive players. I don't give a crap about the state of the offense, because the way I see it, all they have to do is execute and this is a top 10 offense.

Cutting Todd Collins would be beneficial to the team. I don't think Al wants him cut. Tough. Anytime you can save 1.5 million on an already tight cap by cutting your 3rd string QB who has no future in this league, its just a no brainer.

Re: Brunell
 

[quote=wilsowilso;276023]Wait I forgot about Archuletta.. It might be close, but they gave Brunell more than Arch three years ago and I really don't care who replaces Brunell. I just want him to go home and sit on his pile of money and do good for mankind.[/quote]IMO thats a poor plan. You have the league's top backup, who creates a 4.5 million cap hit (net relief of about 1.5 million) if you release him (because, yes, hes being paid like a starter and ALSO because he's restructured his contract multiple times to help this team eek under the cap). Campbell's the starter either way, and if you are trying to convince us that decreasing the quality of our backup is somehow beneficial to this team, you are going to have to do a better job than that.

Re: Brunell
 

[quote=GTripp0012;276025]IMO thats a poor plan. You have the league's top backup, who creates a 4.5 million cap hit if you release him. Campbell's the starter either way, and if you are trying to convince us that decreasing the quality of our backup is somehow beneficial to this team, you are going to have to do a better job than that.[/quote]

If it is that huge a cap hit then that changes things, but this goes back to my point that Brunell's contract is absurd always was and always will be.
I really don't think he will give us a good restructure, but I hope he does.

Re: Brunell
 

[quote=GTripp0012;276025]if you are trying to convince us that decreasing the quality of our backup is somehow beneficial to this team, you are going to have to do a better job than that.[/quote]

If the backup is not named Mark Brunell it is and I repeat is beneficial to this team.

Re: Brunell
 

[quote=wilsowilso;276026]If it is that huge a cap hit then that changes things, but this goes back to my point that Brunell's contract is absurd always was and always will be.
I really don't think he will give us a good restructure, but I hope he does.[/quote]It's not absured by Redskin standards. Like it or not, we do it differently then the rest of the league. We backload our deals and this year Brunell's base salary spiked by 2 million. Nothing out of the ordinary. Redskin cap numbers are deceiving.

I hope we seriously cut down on the restructuring. I don't want anymore guarenteed money poured into 2008 and 2009. We need to be able to cut veteran weight if they don't show improvement this year, and we can't do that if we pay their 2008 and 2009 salaries right now (which is in essence what restructuring does).

Re: Brunell
 

[quote=wilsowilso;276028]If the backup is not named Mark Brunell it is and I repeat is beneficial to this team.[/quote]But unless some team cuts their best QB and he signs with us cheap (keep dreaming), we can't improve the QB position by cutting him. Plus, then we have problems with a new guy learning the system, and no contingency plan should Campbell have say a 1-2 week injury.

You keep saying no Brunell is an improvement, but it doesn't seem like you've even thought this one through to yourself yet.

Re: Brunell
 

[quote=GTripp0012;276030]But unless some team cuts their best QB and he signs with us cheap (keep dreaming), we can't improve the QB position by cutting him. Plus, then we have problems with a new guy learning the system, and no contingency plan should Campbell have say a 1-2 week injury.

You keep saying no Brunell is an improvement, but it doesn't seem like you've even thought this one through to yourself yet.[/quote]

Of course the backup has to be Collins when Brunell goes away far far far away.

Re: Brunell
 

[quote=wilsowilso;276031]Of course the backup has to be Collins when Brunell goes away far far far away.[/quote]Considering that you don't save any significant amount of cap space doing that...

Why?

Whats to like about Collins?

Don't say hes not Brunell--thats just circular.

Re: Brunell
 

[quote=GTripp0012;276033]Considering that you don't save any significant amount of cap space doing that...

Why?

Whats to like about Collins?

Don't say hes not Brunell--thats just circular.[/quote]

Wait you think Brunell and Collins have similar cap ramifications???? Take a look at that one time.

Re: Brunell
 

[quote=wilsowilso;276035]Wait you think Brunell and Collins have similar cap ramifications???? Take a look at that one time.[/quote]I believe they both have net cap gains of approximately 1.5 million (Brunell about 6 mil salary and 4.5 million hit--Collins about 1.8 salary, but only a .3 hit or something similar), you can correct me if this is way off.

I can't get CC's cap sheets to load right now.

Re: Brunell
 

Brunell led us to the playoffs in 2005 and was occasionally brilliant. While there were ample mistakes pertaining to his acquisition that have been discussed ad nauseum here since 2004, I think Mark's play during the 05 season would pretty much eliminate his chances at being the worst move of the decade.

Re: Brunell
 

[QUOTE=djnemo65;276037]Brunell led us to the playoffs in 2005 and was occasionally brilliant. While there were ample mistakes pertaining to his acquisition that have been discussed ad nauseum here since 2004, I think Mark's play during the 05 season would pretty much eliminate his chances at being the worst move of the decade.[/QUOTE]

How can there be a Brunell bashing thread without me? There can't!

First off Brunells highly overated run to the playoff's was a product of our defense carrying his A** most of the way, our defense personally won our last 3 games with no help from Brunell, I could care less what his stats were that year he was and is a lowsey QB.

We have no backup plan at QB right now, Brunell should have retired 4 years ago, and Collins is horrible, we have more holes than Jenna Jameson with no way to address them, we need CB help, D-line help, safety help, backup QB's, not to mention a starting MLB, and yes we have 1 legitamate pick in the draft to accomplish this with. Not to mention our salary cap is like 10lbs of bologna in a 5lbs bag. But that's what happens when you throw picks away like their meaningless, and hand out signing bonuses, and mega contracts to players, when equal or better talent could be had for reasonable money in the draft if we had a clue, unfortuantly we are lucky if they know where the draft is being held, let alone utilize it to build a winner!

Re: Brunell
 

is it really this slow around here? we have bashed brunell enough to last someone for a lifetime. lets move on

Re: Brunell
 

What the hell was the point of this thread? Just to vent about a tired topic?

All in favor of locking this thread throw your hands up in the air and wave 'em like you just don't care