Clayton on the Redskins' offseason plans
 

[IMG]http://espn.go.com/i/teamlogos/nfl/sml/trans/was.gif[/IMG] [B][URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=was"]Washington Redskins[/URL][/B]
[B]Cap room:[/B] $4.3 million
Don't expect the Redskins to go crazy in free agency. They have 11 free agents, but only LB [URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=4756"]Warrick Holdman[/URL] is a starter. There could be significant roster changes, though. Gibbs could wipe out quarterback [URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=2485"]Mark Brunell[/URL], wide receiver [URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=4172"]David Patten[/URL], safety [URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=2225"]Troy Vincent[/URL], kicker [URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=4126"]John Hall[/URL], wide receiver [URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=6460"]Brandon Lloyd[/URL] and safety [URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=5467"]Adam Archuleta[/URL]. [URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=5904"]T.J. Duckett[/URL] will leave in free agency. The Redskins figure to make major improvements along the defensive front seven, which became less athletic last season. The key to the team's playoff chances is how [URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=7201"]Jason Campbell[/URL] develops at quarterback.

Read more: [url=http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=2758756]ESPN.com - NFL - Clayton: Who will be the teams to beat in 2007?[/url]

Re: Clayton on the Redskins' offseason plans
 

I haven't run the numbers but how can they do all of that? Archuleta would be a 9 million dollar hit by himself.

Re: Clayton on the Redskins' offseason plans
 

i think a.a. gets one more season. and i agree with the rest of it

Re: Clayton on the Redskins' offseason plans
 

[quote=Mattyk72;276403][IMG]http://espn.go.com/i/teamlogos/nfl/sml/trans/was.gif[/IMG] [B][URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=was"]Washington Redskins[/URL][/B]
[B]Cap room:[/B] $4.3 million
Don't expect the Redskins to go crazy in free agency. They have 11 free agents, but only LB [URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=4756"]Warrick Holdman[/URL] is a starter. There could be significant roster changes, though. Gibbs could wipe out quarterback [URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=2485"]Mark Brunell[/URL], wide receiver [URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=4172"]David Patten[/URL], safety [URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=2225"]Troy Vincent[/URL], kicker [URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=4126"]John Hall[/URL], wide receiver [URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=6460"]Brandon Lloyd[/URL] and safety [URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=5467"]Adam Archuleta[/URL]. [URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=5904"]T.J. Duckett[/URL] will leave in free agency. The Redskins figure to make major improvements along the defensive front seven, which became less athletic last season. The key to the team's playoff chances is how [URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=7201"]Jason Campbell[/URL] develops at quarterback.

Read more: [URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=2758756"]ESPN.com - NFL - Clayton: Who will be the teams to beat in [/URL]
2007?[/quote]


I would get rid of every player listed above ( except JC ) and add in Daniels and Wynn. Let all of them go and start a three year rebuilding plan. Basically start over. Tenn, Packers and Bills are all way under the cap, they all had beter records than us and I would say all three are somewhat rebuilding. They all have better looking futures than the Skins. The mistakes of the past can not be fixed in one year.

Re: Clayton on the Redskins' offseason plans
 

[quote=skinsfan69;276416]I would get rid of every player listed above ( except JC ) and add in Daniels and Wynn. Let all of them go and start a three year rebuilding plan. Basically start over. Tenn, Packers and Bills are all way under the cap, they all had beter records than us and I would say all three are somewhat rebuilding. They all have better looking futures than the Skins. The mistakes of the past can not be fixed in one year.[/quote]

I don't think it is a bad idea but I don't think Joe will stick around for that. That is why I don't think they will make all of those moves. I believe they will fill the obvious holes and purge salary when Joe is gone. He was brought here to coach them in a big game not to rebuild.

Re: Clayton on the Redskins' offseason plans
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;276416]I would get rid of every player listed above ( except JC ) and add in Daniels and Wynn. [/QUOTE]

daniels should keep starting, he is a key player for us in the locker room and ont he field. wynn should only get cut if he doesnt take a paycut

Re: Clayton on the Redskins' offseason plans
 

Good grief. The TJ Duckett trade looks uglier everytime I hear about it. Lose a third round draft choice for a guy who had 30-something carries and was inactive half the year? And his departure via free agency is a virtual certainty?

Tell me again why we can't shop Ladell Betts for picks?

Tell me again why this front office shouldn't dress up like clowns at Redskin Park?

Re: Clayton on the Redskins' offseason plans
 

[quote=Beemnseven;276422]Good grief. The TJ Duckett trade looks uglier everytime I hear about it. Lose a third round draft choice for a guy who had 30-something carries and was inactive half the year? And his departure via free agency is a virtual certainty?

Tell me again why we can't shop Ladell Betts for picks?

Tell me again why this front office shouldn't dress up like clowns at Redskin Park?[/quote]


You are spot on, Beem. That Ducket move may be worse than the Archuleta signing.

Trading Betts for picks is way too saavy for our front office...

The best part about it is that the pay these jokers so much money that they are un-tradeable once they bust.

Re: Clayton on the Redskins' offseason plans
 

you guys seriously want to trade betts? lol wow.

Re: Clayton on the Redskins' offseason plans
 

[QUOTE]Don't expect the Redskins to go crazy in free agency....There could be significant roster changes, though....The Redskins figure to make major improvements along the defensive front seven.[/QUOTE]

That doesn't make any sense. We're not gonna go crazy in free agency, we only have one pick in the first 4 rounds of the draft, yet we figure to improve or front 7 (I count only 2 first tier starters in the group).

How does he think we're gonna pull that off?

Re: Clayton on the Redskins' offseason plans
 

[QUOTE=Big C;276425]you guys seriously want to trade betts? lol wow.[/QUOTE]

OK, we need two linebackers, a strong safety, another cornerback, a defensive tackle, and it'd also be nice to have someone opposite Andre Carter at defensive end so Philip Daniels can stay where he belongs -- on the sideline (since he's such a great "leader") and serve only in rotations.

Then, we could use some depth along the O-line.

All of this while we have Portis, Betts, a very capable third back in Rock Cartwright -- on a team with an offensive coordinator who loves throwing the ball.

So tell me why the idea of trading Ladell Betts for some picks is such a crazy idea?

Re: Clayton on the Redskins' offseason plans
 

As much as I respect Clayton's opinion, I really do not feel we are gonna ax AA and we will probably make a big free agency move on the defensive side, such as Clements...

Re: Clayton on the Redskins' offseason plans
 

[quote=Big C;276420]daniels should keep starting, he is a key player for us in the locker room and ont he field. wynn should only get cut if he doesnt take a paycut[/quote]

Daniels is a good locker room guy but his production does not merit him staying around. Does he ever put any pressure on the QB?

Re: Clayton on the Redskins' offseason plans
 

[quote=Grim21Reaper;276418]I don't think it is a bad idea but I don't think Joe will stick around for that. That is why I don't think they will make all of those moves. I believe they will fill the obvious holes and purge salary when Joe is gone. He was brought here to coach them in a big game not to rebuild.[/quote]

Well then perhaps he should retire because we are not going to be a Super Bowl contending team next year. Little cap room/ draft picks coming off a 5-11 year sounds like 2-3 year rebuilding plan to me. At least that would be the smart thing to do.

Re: Clayton on the Redskins' offseason plans
 

[quote=skinsfan69;276434]Well then perhaps he should retire because we are not going to be a Super Bowl contending team next year. Little cap room/ draft picks coming off a 5-11 year sounds like 2-3 year rebuilding plan to me. At least that would be the smart thing to do.[/quote]

If they turn the defense around, they could be. And Williams did exactly that in '04.

When do the Redskins ever participate in the "smart thing to do"?

One good thing about parity, you are never that far away (unless you are Houston, Oakland or Detroit).

Re: Clayton on the Redskins' offseason plans
 

[quote=Beemnseven;276429]OK, we need two linebackers, a strong safety, another cornerback, a defensive tackle, and it'd also be nice to have someone opposite Andre Carter at defensive end so Philip Daniels can stay where he belongs -- on the sideline (since he's such a great "leader") and serve only in rotations.

Then, we could use some depth along the O-line.

All of this while we have Portis, Betts, a very capable third back in Rock Cartwright -- on a team with an offensive coordinator who loves throwing the ball.

So tell me why the idea of trading Ladell Betts for some picks is such a crazy idea?[/quote]

So you want to trade quality RB depth away for picks with this front office that by your own opinion does not have a good track record at drafting... tell me how this makes any sense?

And please don't tell me you think Cartwright could handle a full time load if he was pressed into action. At least now we know Betts [I]can[/I] handle it.

Re: Clayton on the Redskins' offseason plans
 

[quote=Grim21Reaper;276410]I haven't run the numbers but how can they do all of that? Archuleta would be a 9 million dollar hit by himself.[/quote]

Try a search for some of Schneed's cap analysis, he's outlined this very scenario many times.

Re: Clayton on the Redskins' offseason plans
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven;276429]
So tell me why the idea of trading Ladell Betts for some picks is such a crazy idea?[/QUOTE]

how quickly we forget how well he played this year, how he took a much smaller deal than he could have got to stay with the redskins. lets just trade our core guys after they just signed a contract extension, tell that to the redskins players see how they'd feel about that. its lunacy.

Re: Clayton on the Redskins' offseason plans
 

[quote=Big C;276445]how quickly we forget how well he played this year, how he took a much smaller deal than he could have got to stay with the redskins. lets just trade our core guys after they just signed a contract extension, tell that to the redskins players see how they'd feel about that. its lunacy.[/quote]

How he played isn't really important. What matters is the player's value on the open market and your team's strengths and weaknesses. They have a lot of holes but RB is not one of them.

The team has two great runningbacks. With Portis' contract you cannot trade him. Betts' contract on the other hand is pretty reasonable and his value has never been higher. So naturally, he is the only one that would be worth trading.

Not to mention, I think that Gibbs would (and will) pick Portis over Betts.

Re: Clayton on the Redskins' offseason plans
 

[quote=Mattyk72;276439]Try a search for some of Schneed's cap analysis, he's outlined this very scenario many times.[/quote]

Thanks for the suggestion, I can now quote the Charles Schwab article and saw some insight on Barbaro.... j/k

Re: Clayton on the Redskins' offseason plans
 

[QUOTE=Grim21Reaper;276447]How he played isn't really important. What matters is the player's value on the open market and your team's strengths and weaknesses. They have a lot of holes but RB is not one of them.

The team has two great runningbacks. With Portis' contract you cannot trade him. Betts' contract on the other hand is pretty reasonable and his value has never been higher. So naturally, he is the only one that would be worth trading.

Not to mention, I think that Gibbs would (and will) pick Portis over Betts.[/QUOTE]

uh...how he played isnt important? ...
u trade a guy who sacrificed millions to stay with the team, that the players love, especially after he JUST signed a new contract, what message does that send? we are using 2 running backs this year, get used to that idea because its going to be a near unstoppable running game. 2 running backs are very important, as shown by both super bowl teams, and no that isnt a coincidence that both super bowl teams used 2 running backs

Re: Clayton on the Redskins' offseason plans
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;276438]So you want to trade quality RB depth away for picks with this front office that by your own opinion does not have a good track record at drafting... tell me how this makes any sense?

And please don't tell me you think Cartwright could handle a full time load if he was pressed into action. At least now we know Betts [I]can[/I] handle it.[/QUOTE]

I agree, as sad as it may be, if we trade away a back let it be Portis he would net more [hopefully] than Betts, cap wise I really don't know. But the fact is as you stated Matty it may not really matter when it comes to how many picks we get regardless of who we trade we are at a loss on how to really utilize them regardless.

Re: Clayton on the Redskins' offseason plans
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven;276422]Good grief. The TJ Duckett trade looks uglier everytime I hear about it. Lose a third round draft choice for a guy who had 30-something carries and was inactive half the year? And his departure via free agency is a virtual certainty?

Tell me again why we can't shop Ladell Betts for picks?

Tell me again why this front office shouldn't dress up like clowns at Redskin Park?[/QUOTE]

Unless you keep TJ Duckett as Portis's backup, there is no way you'd trade Ladell Betts. We have exactly what we need at the RB position, you certainly don't breakdown the depth at one position to fill another.

Re: Clayton on the Redskins' offseason plans
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven;276429]

So tell me why the idea of trading Ladell Betts for some picks is such a crazy idea?[/QUOTE]

As what someone else has pointed out, you want to trade a core Redskins player? And here it is that we have been bitchin' about the Redskins getting rid of core players in the past, and you're suggesting we do just that.

Re: Clayton on the Redskins' offseason plans
 

[quote=Grim21Reaper;276447] [B]How he played isn't really important.[/B] What matters is the player's value on the open market and your team's strengths and weaknesses. [B]They have a lot of holes but RB is not one of them.[/B]

The team has two great runningbacks. With Portis' contract you cannot trade him. Betts' contract on the other hand is pretty reasonable and his value has never been higher. So naturally, he is the only one that would be worth trading.

Not to mention, I think that Gibbs would (and will) pick Portis over Betts.[/quote]




Are you serious !? Listen to yourself, read what you wrote and ask yourself if it makes any common sense. First of all, his play isnt important?! Im not quite sure I would agree with you, at all. Secondly, yeah we have alot of holes and rb isnt one of them, so lets trade betts and add to the holes? whaaaaa?

Re: Clayton on the Redskins' offseason plans
 

[quote=Beemnseven;276429

So tell me why the idea of trading Ladell Betts for some picks is such a crazy idea?[/quote]


see above post.

Re: Clayton on the Redskins' offseason plans
 

[quote=skinsfan69;276433]Daniels is a good locker room guy but his production does not merit him staying around. Does he ever put any pressure on the QB?[/quote]I would cut Wynn this year, sign Justin Smith, and keep Daniels for one more year. He's still a good pass rusher, although his skills against the run were lacking last season.

Re: Clayton on the Redskins' offseason plans
 

[quote=SkinEmAll;276454]Are you serious !? Listen to yourself, read what you wrote and ask yourself if it makes any common sense. First of all, his play isnt important?! Im not quite sure I would agree with you, at all. Secondly, yeah we have alot of holes and rb isnt one of them, so lets trade betts and add to the holes? whaaaaa?[/quote]

I did not make my point as clearly as I should have. I apologize. What is your backup runningback's play last year going to do to fill your defensive holes for next year?

Here is a newsflash, chief, Clinton Portis is the feature back next year. If you told a coach that they would have Clinton Portis and Anna Nicole Smith as a backup, they would feel pretty good about their runningback situation. If Portis stays healthy, Betts may get to touch the ball six times a game. Is that the best use of a guy who can carry the load? Is a second or third round pick more valuable to you when you have 7 guys getting surgery and you have holes at every level on defense? I would say so.

Re: Clayton on the Redskins' offseason plans
 

[quote=Grim21Reaper;276459]Here is a newsflash, chief, Clinton Portis is the feature back next year. If you told a coach that they would have Clinton Portis and Anna Nicole Smith as a backup, they would feel pretty good about their runningback situation.[/quote]Too soon?

Re: Clayton on the Redskins' offseason plans
 

[quote=Grim21Reaper;276459]If Portis stays healthy, Betts may get to touch the ball six times a game. Is that the best use of a guy who can carry the load? Is a second or third round pick more valuable to you when you have 7 guys getting surgery and you have holes at every level on defense? I would say so.[/quote]I think Cartwright is perfectly capable of taking over Betts' role in an offense where the featured guy, Portis, is healthy. The problem comes when Portis gets hurt. Do we run the ball less to account for that?

As long as we have 3 quality backs, we don't have to adjust our gameplan much if Portis gets hurt. We can still run 30-35 times a game.

Guys tend to breakdown if they get more than 350 carries in a season. Portis carried more than that in 2005, and wasn't able to make it though 2006. This is not surprising to me. No back should be allowed to carry more than 20 times a game [I]consistently[/I] thoughout the season. If you are going to be a run first team, you do need two QUALITY guys to carry the football. Portis should be getting about 20 carries a game and even more receptions, but Betts is going to have to carry 10-12 times a game in a run first offense. Even Cartwright should be getting involved later in games to keep Portis from taking unessesscary beatings in running out the clock situations.

Re: Clayton on the Redskins' offseason plans
 

[quote=Grim21Reaper;276448]Thanks for the suggestion, I can now quote the Charles Schwab article and saw some insight on Barbaro.... j/k[/quote]

lol good one

Re: Clayton on the Redskins' offseason plans
 

[quote=GTripp0012;276463]I think Cartwright is perfectly capable of taking over Betts' role in an offense where the featured guy, Portis, is healthy. The problem comes when Portis gets hurt. Do we run the ball less to account for that?

As long as we have 3 quality backs, we don't have to adjust our gameplan much if Portis gets hurt. We can still run 30-35 times a game.

Guys tend to breakdown if they get more than 350 carries in a season. Portis carried more than that in 2005, and wasn't able to make it though 2006. This is not surprising to me. No back should be allowed to carry more than 20 times a game [I]consistently[/I] thoughout the season. If you are going to be a run first team, you do need two QUALITY guys to carry the football. Portis should be getting about 20 carries a game and even more receptions, but Betts is going to have to carry 10-12 times a game in a run first offense. [B]Even Cartwright should be getting involved later in games to keep Portis from taking unessesscary beatings in running out the clock situations.[/B][/quote]


Excellent post over all....love the point at the end. Amen to that. Portis is shizzle, believe that, but no matter how much he thinks he is, he isnt GOD.

2 RB is necessary and not only that, its fun too! HAHAHAHAHAH

Re: Clayton on the Redskins' offseason plans
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;276438]So you want to trade quality RB depth away for picks with this front office that by your own opinion does not have a good track record at drafting... tell me how this makes any sense?

And please don't tell me you think Cartwright could handle a full time load if he was pressed into action. At least now we know Betts [I]can[/I] handle it.[/QUOTE]

As far as my faith in this front office's ability to draft effectively, just remember the blind squirrel ... One of my New Year's resolutions was to think positively about the Redskins front office in 2007. I figure sooner or later they're due for a good draft.

Speaking of which, Rock Cartwright represents one of the very few gems this organization has been able to unearth late in the draft. So yes, I've got confidence in him for a limited back-up role. Not only that, serviceable running backs aren't that difficult to find. Kenny Watson was another good example of a decent pickup through undrafted free agency.

Bottom line for me is, the weaknesses on defense outweigh the advantages of running back depth. Of course, all of that goes out the window if there isn't a fair deal for Betts.

Re: Clayton on the Redskins' offseason plans
 

[QUOTE=Big C;276445]how quickly we forget how well he played this year, how he took a much smaller deal than he could have got to stay with the redskins. lets just trade our core guys after they just signed a contract extension, tell that to the redskins players see how they'd feel about that. its lunacy.[/QUOTE]

I haven't forgotten how well he played. That's exactly the reason I think he'd be worth it if they price was right.

If the players don't see through the "core Redskin" crap by now, then they're blind.

Re: Clayton on the Redskins' offseason plans
 

[QUOTE=skinsguy;276453]As what someone else has pointed out, you want to trade a core Redskins player? And here it is that we have been bitchin' about the Redskins getting rid of core players in the past, and you're suggesting we do just that.[/QUOTE]

The players have to realize that the NFL is all about business. If they're the whining whoosies who will fall apart at seeing one of their fellow teammates get traded the way you suggest, then our problems are much deeper than we thought.

Re: Clayton on the Redskins' offseason plans
 

[quote=Beemnseven;276472]I haven't forgotten how well he played. That's exactly the reason I think he'd be worth it if they price was right.

If the players don't see through the "core Redskin" crap by now, then they're blind.[/quote]


I actually think that while the players wouldn't want to see him go, they would appreciate a move that actually "made sense". If you are a player it has to frustrate you when the front office sets you up for failure year after year.

Re: Clayton on the Redskins' offseason plans
 

[QUOTE=Grim21Reaper;276474]I actually think that while the players wouldn't want to see him go, they would appreciate a move that actually "made sense". If you are a player it has to frustrate you when the front office sets you up for failure year after year.[/QUOTE]

i could understand what u guys are saying if betts didnt just re-sign, like if he had already had a few years on his contract. but like 2 months ago we just extended him, it would be really low to trade someone right after they re-signed with you, and i can assure you the players would revolt. betts isnt being traded and i think we all know that deep down

Re: Clayton on the Redskins' offseason plans
 

I think this offseason the team really needs to commit to this notion of what it means to be a core Redskin. We've seen too many of these so called core guys slip away. Trading away someone like Betts would just be another move that the players would quietly grumble over in the locker room and it would only further weaken an already shaky ground between the coaches and players.

If Gibbs and company are really serious about building and retaining key guys, they really need to step up to the plate and deliver.

Re: Clayton on the Redskins' offseason plans
 

I just want to resign Dockery within the next week. I really am starting to get very afraid things might not be going well with those negotiations.

Re: Clayton on the Redskins' offseason plans
 

I don't know what people see in Cartwright. He has the size of a tailback yet runs like a fullback. We already have one north/south runner with no moves in Ladell, I don't see the need for two at that spot. I'd rather look for a young guy with some open field ability.

Both Ladell and Rock seem to have the uncanny ability to break through the LOS then run right at the only guy with a shot at stopping them. Ladell's advantage is that he does it 10 yards downfield.