Iran Supplying Weapons to Iraq?
 

Does anyone else find this disturbing that Iran could be supplying weapons to Iraquis?

What a huge mess this is turning out to be, and at this point we really don't have the military personnel to make any serious threat to Iran.

Re: Iran Supplying Weapons to Iraq?
 

Well at least Iran is in between Iraq and Afganistan, so the US could possibly us both countries for staging purposes if need be.

This whole thing is pretty unsettling.

Re: Iran Supplying Weapons to Iraq?
 

not really new information, and this isn't the first time another country has funneled tech ;) the US and russia do it all the time, the chinese in korea, etc etc.

Re: Iran Supplying Weapons to Iraq?
 

[quote=That Guy;276623]not really new information, and this isn't the first time another country has funneled tech ;) the US and russia do it all the time, the chinese in korea, etc etc.[/quote]


No kidding. You can be sure the Iranians are going to do everything to keep Iraq as unstable as possible. Any involvement the Iranians have with regards to Iraq shouldn't be surprising.

Re: Iran Supplying Weapons to Iraq?
 

I agree with That Guy and 724 -- definitely not surprising. And you know the gov't will use this as media fodder to enrage the public (and possibly justify action), all the while ignoring the fact that we supplied several countries with weapons, only to later regret it. How convenient. :doh:

Re: Iran Supplying Weapons to Iraq?
 

[QUOTE=GhettoDogAllStars;276642]I agree with That Guy and 724 -- definitely not surprising. And you know the gov't will use this as media fodder to enrage the public (and possibly justify action), all the while ignoring the fact that we supplied several countries with weapons, only to later regret it. How convenient. :doh:[/QUOTE]

What does that mean?

Re: Iran Supplying Weapons to Iraq?
 

Nothing new, just more reason to get Iran's ass right now. The hog1 is totally enraged

Re: Iran Supplying Weapons to Iraq?
 

[QUOTE=FRPLG;276652]What does that mean?[/QUOTE]

It means our gov't (like any) is hypocritical.

Re: Iran Supplying Weapons to Iraq?
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;276656]It means our gov't (like any) is hypocritical.[/quote]

So?

Re: Iran Supplying Weapons to Iraq?
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;276657]So?[/QUOTE]

It's just an observation. I don't like hypocrites. Do you?

Re: Iran Supplying Weapons to Iraq?
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;276659]It's just an observation. I don't like hypocrites. Do you?[/quote]

I don't care if they're hypocritical when they're doing things that protect our troops.

If they get mad at Iran for supplying bombs that might kill our troops, I'm OK with that. I'm also OK with it if they have supplied technology/equipment in the past if it meant that it weakened our enemies in the past.

If Iran is going to do this crap, it's an act of war in my opinion. I think we ought to be thinking about launching some long range missile strikes from our ships in the gulf at all of their military installations and potential nuclear facilities.

Re: Iran Supplying Weapons to Iraq?
 

What's really disconcerting to me is not the news in and of itself, but the fact that militarily we're spread so thin.

I almost get the feeling Iran feels emboldened because of that.

Re: Iran Supplying Weapons to Iraq?
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;276642]I agree with That Guy and 724 -- definitely not surprising. And you know the gov't will use this as media fodder to enrage the public (and possibly justify action), all the while ignoring the fact that we supplied several countries with weapons, only to later regret it. How convenient. :doh:[/quote]
I guess your refering to us supplying Iraq with weapons when they were at war with Iran. At the time we had no beef with Iraq only Iran (remember the US hostages in Iran). I'm not sure what Nation was supplying Iran but we did not want them to expand their country and need Iraq to win or at least stop them. I guess with a little hine site it would have been best if they just wiped each other off the map.

Re: Iran Supplying Weapons to Iraq?
 

[quote=Schneed10;276665]I don't care if they're hypocritical when they're doing things that protect our troops.

If they get mad at Iran for supplying bombs that might kill our troops, I'm OK with that. I'm also OK with it if they have supplied technology/equipment in the past if it meant that it weakened our enemies in the past.

If Iran is going to do this crap, it's an act of war in my opinion. I think we ought to be thinking about launching some long range missile strikes from our ships in the gulf at all of their military installations and potential nuclear facilities.[/quote]


Launching missles is the last thing we need to do and the last thing we will do in my opinion.

Re: Iran Supplying Weapons to Iraq?
 

[quote=12thMan;276668]Launching missles is the last thing we need to do and the last thing we will do in my opinion.[/quote]

Care to elaborate? Why is it the last thing we need to do?

Re: Iran Supplying Weapons to Iraq?
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;276665]I don't care if they're hypocritical when they're doing things that protect our troops.

If they get mad at Iran for supplying bombs that might kill our troops, I'm OK with that. I'm also OK with it if they have supplied technology/equipment in the past if it meant that it weakened our enemies in the past.

If Iran is going to do this crap, it's an act of war in my opinion. I think we ought to be thinking about launching some long range missile strikes from our ships in the gulf at all of their military installations and potential nuclear facilities.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I understand what you're saying. The problem arises when our actions today affect the safety of our troops and our country tomorrow. We gave weapons to the taliban and Osama bin Laden to fight the Soviet Union. That didn't work out too well. We also supported the Iranian revolution which probably didn't help our image in Iran.

Now Iran does the EXACT same thing we did in the past, and everyone is up in arms about it. That's not cool. We just need to quit sticking our noses into everyone else's business.

:twocents:

Re: Iran Supplying Weapons to Iraq?
 

[QUOTE=firstdown;276667]I guess your refering to us supplying Iraq with weapons when they were at war with Iran. At the time we had no beef with Iraq only Iran (remember the US hostages in Iran). I'm not sure what Nation was supplying Iran but we did not want them to expand their country and need Iraq to win or at least stop them. I guess with a little hine site it would have been best if they just wiped each other off the map.[/QUOTE]

I was actually referring to Afghanistan and Iran, but there are countless instances. Iraq is also a good example.

Re: Iran Supplying Weapons to Iraq?
 

[quote=Schneed10;276669]Care to elaborate? Why is it the last thing we need to do?[/quote]

To me it's as simple as we're already mired in a war in Iraq, Congress is opposed to troop escalation, we have few if any allies left to support us at this point.

Unless we first take some political action, which is unlikely to happen, I just don't see us pointing missles at Iran at this point.

Re: Iran Supplying Weapons to Iraq?
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;276672]I was actually referring to Afghanistan and Iran, but there are countless instances. Iraq is also a good example.[/quote]I never knew we supplied weapons to either of them how many years back are you going?

Re: Iran Supplying Weapons to Iraq?
 

[quote=firstdown;276675]I never knew we supplied weapons to either of them how many years back are you going?[/quote]

1980 or so. Cold War efforts.

Re: Iran Supplying Weapons to Iraq?
 

No action anywhere in the world by us=9/11 once a month

Re: Iran Supplying Weapons to Iraq?
 

[quote=12thMan;276673]To me it's as simple as we're already mired in a war in Iraq, Congress is opposed to troop escalation, we have few if any allies left to support us at this point.

Unless we first take some political action, which is unlikely to happen, I just don't see us pointing missles at Iran at this point.[/quote]

OK then, how do you propose we stop Iran from killing our troops in Iraq?

Or are you OK with letting this happen?

Re: Iran Supplying Weapons to Iraq?
 

[quote=Hog1;276677]No action anywhere in the world by us=9/11 once a month[/quote]

That may be dramatic, but I totally get your point.

These people want to kill us whether we come back home or whether we fight them overseas. They have a war mentality. Just because we withdraw, or "keep our noses out of others' business", doesn't mean they won't try to kill us.

It's a WAR.

Re: Iran Supplying Weapons to Iraq?
 

[quote=Schneed10;276678]OK then, how do you propose we stop Iran from killing our troops in Iraq?

Or are you OK with letting this happen?[/quote]


Dude, of course not. Look, if we're scratching our collective heads right now over Iraq, can't agree on how to get out or when to get out for that matter. This makes the situation in Iran super complicated.

First thing I think we should do is somehow get more international support and involvement. Although we don't have the best relations with Iran, other countries may be able to mediate somehow.

Another question is, exactly how are the weapons getting into the country? Is there a way we can cut off the flow of arsenal into to Iraq without directly engaging in military action?

Re: Iran Supplying Weapons to Iraq?
 

I don't see you mofos signing up to serve and here you are advocating we open up another front to a war already going very badly. It's easy to say, it's a lot harder to do.

Re: Iran Supplying Weapons to Iraq?
 

[quote=Schneed10;276676]1980 or so. Cold War efforts.[/quote]
Ok, your saying we provided Iran in the 80's weapons when in 1981 they were holding 63 US citizens hostage? That does not make one bit of sense they where our enemy at this time. I think your thinking of us supplying Iraq with weapons as they where fight Iran in the 80's and we did not want Iran taking over Iraq. We wanted to keep them from growing in that part of the world and as a nation.

Re: Iran Supplying Weapons to Iraq?
 

[quote=saden1;276681]I don't see you mofos signing up to server and here you are advocating we open up another front to a war already going very badly. It's easy to say, it's a lot harder to do.[/quote]

Exactly.

Re: Iran Supplying Weapons to Iraq?
 

[quote=firstdown;276682]Ok, your saying we provided Iran in the 80's weapons when in 1981 they were holding 63 US citizens hostage? That does not make one bit of sense they where our enemy at this time. I think your thinking of us supplying Iraq with weapons as they where fight Iran in the 80's and we did not want Iran taking over Iraq. We wanted to keep them from growing in that part of the world and as a nation.[/quote]

I meant to Afghanistan around 1980. That was about the time when the Russians were occupying Afghanistan.

Re: Iran Supplying Weapons to Iraq?
 

[quote=Schneed10;276679]That may be dramatic, but I totally get your point.

These people want to kill us whether we come back home or whether we fight them overseas. They have a war mentality. Just because we withdraw, or "keep our noses out of others' business", doesn't mean they won't try to kill us.

It's a WAR.[/quote]

True, a little dramatic.
I think the mistake many Americans, Europeans tend to make is the desire to make all this make sense. It doesn't. I try to ply my American values of live, and let live, do unto others.....etc. to this situation, and guess what. It does not compute. The idea that another race/country, countries wants to kill me, my family, my people (Americans) is ridiculous, outrageous!!!! Does this really exist? Hell, yes. Moreover, by their acts, they have proven to be relentless and ruthless hunters wanting nothing more from their lives than to take part in the ultimate violence against there enemies..........us, and those like us. It's wierd, but that seems to be all they understand. I do not condemn all muslims, or all of anybody. I do think ALL muslims and anyone else that fits that "profile" bear closer scrutiny in airport security than someone's 84 year old Irish mom. Is that a violation of someone elses civil rights? Racial Profiling? Who cares. When Irish old ladies start bombing the next tower wherever, I want them profiled, and searched accordingly. The rules changed Sepember 11, 2001. If we allow it, political correctness will kill us all

Re: Iran Supplying Weapons to Iraq?
 

[quote=Schneed10;276669]Care to elaborate? Why is it the last thing we need to do?[/quote]

Putin voiced his opinion of this recently. Saying basically how since the US reacts with military firepower rather than different channels which in turn forces other countries build up their arms and weaponry. I think his perception of how the US handles certain international issues may coincide with a few other countries. This could become a case of the schoolyard bully being ganged up on by all of the kids he picked on in years past.

Re: Iran Supplying Weapons to Iraq?
 

[quote=Schneed10;276685]I meant to Afghanistan around 1980. That was about the time when the Russians were occupying Afghanistan.[/quote]Are you saying that we should not have helped AFghanistan ( in providing weapons) when fighting Russa and communism?

Re: Iran Supplying Weapons to Iraq?
 

What we SHOULD do is send a strong message to Iran now...enough of this U.N. diplomacy thathas proven to not only fail, but actually helps strengthen the enemies by giving them more time to stock up and prepare. We should bomb Iran's nuclear facilities, which will:

1. Say "we're serious...if you help kill Americans, we'll kill you."
2. Take away their ability to retaliate or go after Israel with nukes, which is something they would defiinately do.
3. Prevent terrorists anywhere from getting nukes.
4. Reinforce the fact that we are the world's military superpower, not a "paper tiger" like bin Laden called us during the Clinton years.

Re: Iran Supplying Weapons to Iraq?
 

Is anyone looking at this from their point of view? In the 9/11 attacks we lose 2,819 people ([url=http://nymag.com/news/articles/wtc/1year/numbers.htm)]New York Magazine[/url]. In Iraq, over the course of this war they've lost between 56,023 and 61,736 civilians. I'm sorry if this sounds brash, but we've been damn lucky that a) 9/11 only killed 2,819 people, and that attacks like that don't happen on a more regular basis. 9/11 happens in these countries every couple months, and often we're involved in some way. I don't think it takes rocket science to see why these people hate us. Most of them were living their lives, and yes Saddam wasn't a great ruler by any stretch, but most families weren't losing children, mothers, and fathers from a bomb that goes off course or the escalated violence in the area, this is why they hate us. Their towns are in ruins, many of their family members are dead, and we are directly responsible.

How would you guys support it if, lets say... France, decided that George W. Bush was a dictator and not fit to run the country. The first thing they do is bomb the shit out of our infrastructure. Goodbye power grid, goodbye bridges, cut the fiber-optic backbones going into the country (much like we did in Iraq), kill the telephone lines. Then bomb military outposts. You'd be enraged, a violation of our 'civil rights'. I guess at some point, we need to stop forcing our ways on others. We're the world's Jehovah's witnesses, going door to door, uninvited, and pushing our agenda on someone else.

Then people bitch about car bombs, etc. It's how you win when you're undermanned. They can't just gear up and fight us, they'd get crushed. If we want to go rolling into war, especially with groups instead of sovereign states, we need to expect guerrilla warfare. It's the only effective means for people to fight back, and we can't start a war and expect everyone to drop their weapons and convert to us.

This isn't meant to offend anyone, I'm just asking you to step back from being an American, and put yourself in someone else's shoes. 9/11 was a tragedy, but the loss of human life wasn't near what many countries see on a regular basis. We've been extremely lucky with thwarting such attacks, and in my opinion, pissing more people off isn't the best way to stop them. Many experts say that the Iraq war has done little but breed more terrorists.

Re: Iran Supplying Weapons to Iraq?
 

[quote=firstdown;276699]Are you saying that we should not have helped AFghanistan ( in providing weapons) when fighting Russa and communism?[/quote]

At the time, it was the right move. The USSR was our biggest threat and they had vowed to take over the world, INCLUDING us with Communism. That's why there are so many South and Central American nations with Communist governments, they were working their way up to us. At the time, our only Arab enemy was Iran (hostages during Carter administration) and we were trying to prevent the growth of our main enemy, the USSR.

In hindsight, hey, nothing is perfect. Saying we shouldn't have helped them in the 80s would be the same as rejecting all help from the British, Japanese or Germans today...because circumstances made them our enemies once upon a time.

The world situation constantly changes and we must do what's right in the current situations without holding grudges about the past or making predictions about the future.

Re: Iran Supplying Weapons to Iraq?
 

[quote=Buster;276701]What we SHOULD do is send a strong message to Iran now...enough of this U.N. diplomacy thathas proven to not only fail, but actually helps strengthen the enemies by giving them more time to stock up and prepare. We should bomb Iran's nuclear facilities, which will:

1. Say "we're serious...if you help kill Americans, we'll kill you."
2. Take away their ability to retaliate or go after Israel with nukes, which is something they would defiinately do.
3. Prevent terrorists anywhere from getting nukes.
4. Reinforce the fact that we are the world's military superpower, not a "paper tiger" like bin Laden called us during the Clinton years.[/quote]

Buster, two years ago I would have agreed with you. But we've emboldened terrorists around the globe. Every day this war in Iraq lingers, more terrorists come out of the woodwork.

Our miscalculation in Iraq has caused us to lose a lot of credibilty within the international community, and it's damn near impossible to prevent terrorists from getting their hands on nukes these days.

Next on deck, North Korea?

Re: Iran Supplying Weapons to Iraq?
 

Buster, does that mean America helped kill Americans? We dismantled our F-14 Tomcat jets. Guess where we ended up selling the parts to? Whoops? Maybe we should do our homework and stop selling fighter jets to Iran?
[url=http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2007-01-31-pentagon-surplus_x.htm]Lawmaker says Pentagon's suspension of F-14 part sales falls short - USATODAY.com[/url]

Re: Iran Supplying Weapons to Iraq?
 

[quote=firstdown;276699]Are you saying that we should not have helped AFghanistan ( in providing weapons) when fighting Russa and communism?[/quote]

Sheesh. You're not following the conversation too well.

First, he said it's hypocritical that we provided help to Afghanistan against the Russians, and now we're pissed that Iran is doing it to us in Iraq.

Then, I said I don't care if it's hypocritical, I just want the US to do what's in the best interests of our citizens/troops' lives.

Then you asked how far back are you going?

Then I said in 1980 we gave help to Afghanistan against the Russians.

I'm glad we helped the Afghanis then. With the Cold War, Russia was a major threat to us.

Re: Iran Supplying Weapons to Iraq?
 

[quote=Daseal;276702]Is anyone looking at this from their point of view? In the 9/11 attacks we lose 2,819 people ([URL="http://nymag.com/news/articles/wtc/1year/numbers.htm)"]New York Magazine[/URL]. In Iraq, over the course of this war they've lost between 56,023 and 61,736 civilians. I'm sorry if this sounds brash, but we've been damn lucky that a) 9/11 only killed 2,819 people, and that attacks like that don't happen on a more regular basis. 9/11 happens in these countries every couple months, and often we're involved in some way. I don't think it takes rocket science to see why these people hate us. Most of them were living their lives, and yes Saddam wasn't a great ruler by any stretch, but most families weren't losing children, mothers, and fathers from a bomb that goes off course or the escalated violence in the area, this is why they hate us. Their towns are in ruins, many of their family members are dead, and we are directly responsible.

How would you guys support it if, lets say... France, decided that George W. Bush was a dictator and not fit to run the country. The first thing they do is bomb the shit out of our infrastructure. Goodbye power grid, goodbye bridges, cut the fiber-optic backbones going into the country (much like we did in Iraq), kill the telephone lines. Then bomb military outposts. You'd be enraged, a violation of our 'civil rights'. I guess at some point, we need to stop forcing our ways on others. We're the world's Jehovah's witnesses, going door to door, uninvited, and pushing our agenda on someone else.

Then people bitch about car bombs, etc. It's how you win when you're undermanned. They can't just gear up and fight us, they'd get crushed. If we want to go rolling into war, especially with groups instead of sovereign states, we need to expect guerrilla warfare. It's the only effective means for people to fight back, and we can't start a war and expect everyone to drop their weapons and convert to us.

This isn't meant to offend anyone, I'm just asking you to step back from being an American, and put yourself in someone else's shoes. 9/11 was a tragedy, but the loss of human life wasn't near what many countries see on a regular basis. We've been extremely lucky with thwarting such attacks, and in my opinion, pissing more people off isn't the best way to stop them. Many experts say that the Iraq war has done little but breed more terrorists.[/quote]

You make a good point about Sadaam. Although his leadership was questionable and to some intolerable, can we really say that Iraq is better of now that he's removed?

Re: Iran Supplying Weapons to Iraq?
 

[quote=12thMan;276706]Buster, two years ago I would have agreed with you. [B]But we've emboldened terrorists around the globe.[/B] Every day this war in Iraq lingers, more terrorists come out of the woodwork.

Our miscalculation in Iraq has caused us to lose a lot of credibilty within the international community, and it's damn near impossible to prevent terrorists from getting their hands on nukes these days.

Next on deck, North Korea?[/quote]

Do you think backing out of Iraq would really un-embolden them??

No matter whether we stay or go, they're going to try to kill us. It's a war. Kill them, or kill us. It takes two sides to end a war. Just because we leave Iraq doesn't mean they'll stop the war.

Re: Iran Supplying Weapons to Iraq?
 

[quote=Daseal;276702]Is anyone looking at this from their point of view? In the 9/11 attacks we lose 2,819 people ([URL="http://nymag.com/news/articles/wtc/1year/numbers.htm)"]New York Magazine[/URL]. In Iraq, over the course of this war they've lost between 56,023 and 61,736 civilians. I'm sorry if this sounds brash, but we've been damn lucky that a) 9/11 only killed 2,819 people, and that attacks like that don't happen on a more regular basis. 9/11 happens in these countries every couple months, and often we're involved in some way. I don't think it takes rocket science to see why these people hate us. Most of them were living their lives, and yes Saddam wasn't a great ruler by any stretch, but most families weren't losing children, mothers, and fathers from a bomb that goes off course or the escalated violence in the area, this is why they hate us. Their towns are in ruins, many of their family members are dead, and we are directly responsible.

How would you guys support it if, lets say... France, decided that George W. Bush was a dictator and not fit to run the country. The first thing they do is bomb the shit out of our infrastructure. Goodbye power grid, goodbye bridges, cut the fiber-optic backbones going into the country (much like we did in Iraq), kill the telephone lines. Then bomb military outposts. You'd be enraged, a violation of our 'civil rights'. I guess at some point, we need to stop forcing our ways on others. We're the world's Jehovah's witnesses, going door to door, uninvited, and pushing our agenda on someone else.

Then people bitch about car bombs, etc. It's how you win when you're undermanned. They can't just gear up and fight us, they'd get crushed. If we want to go rolling into war, especially with groups instead of sovereign states, we need to expect guerrilla warfare. It's the only effective means for people to fight back, and we can't start a war and expect everyone to drop their weapons and convert to us.

This isn't meant to offend anyone, I'm just asking you to step back from being an American, and put yourself in someone else's shoes. 9/11 was a tragedy, but the loss of human life wasn't near what many countries see on a regular basis. We've been extremely lucky with thwarting such attacks, and in my opinion, pissing more people off isn't the best way to stop them. Many experts say that the Iraq war has done little but breed more terrorists.[/quote]

And, I'm not offended by your post or opinion. However, I think much of what America thinks is what is delivered by the media spin. Our media would have you believe that the mainstream Iraqi does not want us there. We are not helping. They don't need us. That our troops do not think this war is just, they are ill-prepared, etc.
As far as I know to say Sadaam was not the greatest leader may a bit understated, as to how many of his own people is credited with killing?? 100,000+? Are you suggesting that US troops have killed 60k innocent civilians?
When you get outside the mainstream media party line, the story changes a bit. I have read (like many of you) many accounts from US troops, and Iraqi civilians that tell a story that not only do they want us there, that the large percentage of Iraqi's say they need us. That Sadaam was a satanical madman, and murderer who thought nothing of killing his own.
So to suggest that we invaded a country full of regular Joe's, and deposed a leader that was ???????? misunderstood, may not be an accurate description.
Frankly, I don't care what the radical forces that opposed us in that region think. They are the reason we are there