A. Thomas vs. L. Fletcher
 

With all this talk about us overpaying on Fletcher very soon. I have to ask the question who would you rather over pay on London Fletcher or Adalius Thomas? Why is our focus soley on Fletcher isn't Thomas a better prospect?

I would much rather take Thomas in free agentcy and shift Rocky over to MLB. Rocky can learn early in his career to play a new position... ( which he had expierience playing in college).

Draft Branch and problem is solved... Thomas could also shift to DE in blitz packages providing more pressure. Any thoughts, I just don't like spending money on guys who are on the tail end of their careers.

Re: A. Thomas vs. L. Fletcher
 

Thomas is probably going to demand a longer-term deal and will command far more compensation. Plus, I don't particularly like the idea of moving Rocky inside given that he seemed to have a difficult time grasping Williams' scheme last season.

Thomas is 30, so he's not exactly a young lad.

Re: A. Thomas vs. L. Fletcher
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;280595]With all this talk about us overpaying on Fletcher very soon. I have to ask the question who would you rather over pay on London Fletcher or Adalius Thomas? Why is our focus soley on Fletcher isn't Thomas a better prospect?

I would much rather take Thomas in free agentcy and shift Rocky over to MLB. Rocky can learn early in his career to play a new position... ( which he had expierience playing in college).

Draft Branch and problem is solved... Thomas could also shift to DE in blitz packages providing more pressure. Any thoughts, I just don't like spending money on guys who are on the tail end of their careers.[/quote]

Yes, I'd rather have A.Thomas than Fletcher, but we only have so much in the way of cap $'s and number 1 priority outside of signing Dockery this offseason is signing Clements and he will probably be our only big name FA. BTW, we never overpay FA's.

Re: A. Thomas vs. L. Fletcher
 

[quote=Skinsfanmania;280597]Yes, I'd rather have A.Thomas than Fletcher, but we only have so much in the way of cap $'s and number 1 priority outside of signing Dockery this offseason is signing Clements and he will probably be our only big name FA. [B]BTW, we never overpay FA's[/B].[/quote]


Come again???

Re: A. Thomas vs. L. Fletcher
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;280596]Thomas is probably going to demand a longer-term deal and will command far more compensation. Plus, I don't particularly like the idea of moving Rocky inside given that he seemed to have a difficult time grasping Williams' scheme last season.

Thomas is 30, so he's not exactly a young lad.[/QUOTE]

I am not sure Rocky had difficulty grasping the scheme, isn't the issue of whether he got the system or not one of the reasons Dale lindsey got fired? i think he kinda grasped the system but lindsey so in love with Holdman made reason not to put him in.

Re: A. Thomas vs. L. Fletcher
 

That's what I'm really worried about with this coaching staff. We're ALWAYS looking to sign people that were coached with the Bears or Bills. It's always, "That guy played in the system before!!"

How about we do what EVERY OTHER TEAM DOES?! Let's play our rookies from day one. Let's NOT feel the need to sign players just because they've played for the coaches before.

Re: A. Thomas vs. L. Fletcher
 

[quote=AlvinWalton'sNeckBrace;280599]Come again???[/quote]


are u serious????

Re: A. Thomas vs. L. Fletcher
 

I think the problem is that Thomas actually wants to get paid and Fletcher will be coming in for considerably less than he would.

Re: A. Thomas vs. L. Fletcher
 

Fletcher knows this system so I think that's the trump card he holds over Thomas. GW can bring this guy in and and not have to worry about him learning the system, he can come in and be a mentor for the other LBs right away. He's an ideal fit.

Re: A. Thomas vs. L. Fletcher
 

[quote=Mattyk72;280610]Fletcher knows this system so I think that's the trump card he holds over Thomas. GW can bring this guy and and not have to worry about him learning the system, he can come in and be a mentor for the other LBs right away. He's an ideal fit.[/quote]


could not have said it better and according to michael smith we are intrested in trading for dre bly

so the question is who would you rather have dre bly or nate clements i think clements cause of his run support

Re: A. Thomas vs. L. Fletcher
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;280595]With all this talk about us overpaying on Fletcher very soon. I have to ask the question who would you rather over pay on London Fletcher or Adalius Thomas? Why is our focus soley on Fletcher isn't Thomas a better prospect?

I would much rather take Thomas in free agentcy and shift Rocky over to MLB. Rocky can learn early in his career to play a new position... ( which he had expierience playing in college).

Draft Branch and problem is solved... Thomas could also shift to DE in blitz packages providing more pressure. Any thoughts, I just don't like spending money on guys who are on the tail end of their careers.[/quote]

"All this talk" is just that. Who actually knows if we're going to pay Fletcher $6mil a yr. as Peter King reported. Let's let Rocky earn some pt at OLB, his natural position.

Re: A. Thomas vs. L. Fletcher
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;280612]could not have said it better and according to michael smith we are intrested in trading for dre bly

so the question is who would you rather have dre bly or nate clements i think clements cause of his run support[/quote]

when did you hear that...and trading what exactly?

Re: A. Thomas vs. L. Fletcher
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;280595]With all this talk about us overpaying on Fletcher very soon. I have to ask the question who would you rather over pay on London Fletcher or Adalius Thomas? Why is our focus soley on Fletcher isn't Thomas a better prospect?

I would much rather take Thomas in free agentcy and shift Rocky over to MLB. Rocky can learn early in his career to play a new position... ( which he had expierience playing in college).

Draft Branch and problem is solved... Thomas could also shift to DE in blitz packages providing more pressure. Any thoughts, I just don't like spending money on guys who are on the tail end of their careers.[/quote]

1. People need to remember that everything that's coming out of the combine is simply rumors.

2.Rocky does not need to switch positions. That would not be a good idea. Has he every played MLB? Nope.

3. Thomas is 30 and I would never pay big $ on someone who is 30.

4. Just becasue we draft Branch does not mean problems are solved. He still has to perform like the rest of the defense.

5. I would not bring in Fletcher at all.

Re: A. Thomas vs. L. Fletcher
 

I am so f***ing tired of hearing we should move Rocky to MLB. Why anyone with half a brain thinks the answer to any problem that faces this team includes moving a guy who didn't appear to be able to grasp the system to the Defensive QB spot is beyond me. IT IS A BAD IDEA. REAL BAD. How about we sign a guy who can play and knows the system rather than signing one guy who is OLD(Thomas is not young) and moving another guy. Then we'd have 2, count that, 2 guys learning on the job rather 0 guys learning. This has been beaten to death on this board. Fletcher is the best option. Thomas is old and probably a large product of his sytem. Plus he'll be probably twice as expensive.

Re: A. Thomas vs. L. Fletcher
 

yeah, I agree Fletcher is the best option, and we'll have instant depth once we sign him...I just don't want to overpay. Back to Bly...I'm not really sure how we would go about acquiring him being that we have very little to trade

Re: A. Thomas vs. L. Fletcher
 

I heard Bly was on the outs because of attitude and lack of physical play. Doesn't sound much like a guy we'd be after.

Re: A. Thomas vs. L. Fletcher
 

1. Rocky did play MLB in college briefly

2. The best way to learn anything is doing it; therefore I am an avid believer in letting the kid play, learn the position on the job. It worked for Campbell. ~This coaching staff said Jason didn't know the system either but he looked fine to me.

3. If we drafted Branch that would be the ideal learning position for Rocky because he would have 2 space-eaters in front of him in Griffin and Branch giving him the opportunity to react sideline to sideline, by stopping the run and taking on blocks.

4. Personally I'd want to bring in Kato June before either one of those guys anyway.

5. this is not rocket science, it's a defensive football system ~it's not that damn hard!

Re: A. Thomas vs. L. Fletcher
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;280632]


4. Personally I'd want to bring in Kato June before either one of those guys anyway.

[/quote]

[B]C[/B]ato June was a product of the Colts system. He's undersized, and he fit the Colts system because their whole defense is small guys who use speed to their advantage. He would have problems in a really physical defensive unit.

Re: A. Thomas vs. L. Fletcher
 

on rocky - if you can't crack the lineup, depending on you to play at a high level and make other players better around you isn't just too much to ask, it's insane.

until he proves he can play, you kinda have to assume you'll need a real plan... or is mccune going to finally bust loose this year?

isn't thomas more of an OLB or 3-4 guy anyways?

Re: A. Thomas vs. L. Fletcher
 

[quote=That Guy;280635]on rocky - if you can't crack the lineup, depending on you to play at a high level and make other players better around you isn't just too much to ask, it's insane.

until he proves he can play, you kinda have to assume you'll need a real plan... or is mccune going to finally bust loose this year?

isn't thomas more of an OLB or 3-4 guy anyways?[/quote]

Why do I keep thinking McCune was picked up by the Dolphins off of our practice squad?

Re: A. Thomas vs. L. Fletcher
 

[quote=Jigsaw1;280640]i don't think it would either would help the redskins[/quote]


now mohammed kromah who is a panthers fan i told u not to come on here and trash the skins

Re: A. Thomas vs. L. Fletcher
 

[QUOTE=724Skinsfan;280638]Why do I keep thinking McCune was picked up by the Dolphins off of our practice squad?[/QUOTE]

You and me both

Re: A. Thomas vs. L. Fletcher
 

[QUOTE=diehardskin2982;280632]2. The best way to learn anything is doing it; therefore I am an avid believer in letting the kid play, learn the position on the job. It worked for Campbell. ~This coaching staff said Jason didn't know the system either but he looked fine to me.[/QUOTE]

The defensive coaches don't seem to share your philosophy.

And what exactly "worked" with Jason Campbell? Has his name already been etched in the history books?

It would be wise to watch Jason Campbell in 2007 and wait to see if he has learned the system before getting your hopes up. I'm rooting for him all the way -- it's been more than 20 years since the Redskins had a franchise quarterback. But to me, he still has much to prove.

Re: A. Thomas vs. L. Fletcher
 

[quote=724Skinsfan;280638]Why do I keep thinking McCune was picked up by the Dolphins off of our practice squad?[/quote]

probably because he was, but i mean, that's my point. sometimes it doesn't work out, and it doesn't hurt to have a better plan then "he's showed us nothing at all that proves he can play, so we'll just hand him a starting job." a lot of people seem to be okay with that, but that's just crazy.

Re: A. Thomas vs. L. Fletcher
 

No he is not in the "history books" but he is way better than brunnell. I would imagine Rocky will be better than Holdman.

Cato june won a championship and can play football at his position, I think he could help here... Was Washington a product of their system?

Re: A. Thomas vs. L. Fletcher
 

Adelius Thomas is a better linebacker than London Fletcher. I don't think there would be a lot of debate on that point among personnel folks around the league.

But the fact that Thomas made it known that he would not sign with the Ravens if they put the franchise tag on him means he has to be looking for a huge score on the free agent market. Remember, the franchise tag is a guaranteed one-year deal equal to the average salary of the top three linebackers in the league. The minute he signs that deal, the money is guaranteed; even if they cut him, they pay him.

So, Thomas is going to cost a lot of money and that's why he probably should not be first on the Skins' list.

By the way, this business of "knowing the system" is really overrated. London Fletcher "knows the system" in Buffalo but they are not falling all over themselves to keep him. Guess that shows how critical "knowing the system" must be.

With regard to Rocky's lack of playing time last year. Either he's dumb as a box of hammers and could not figure out what he was supposed to do on the various calls or Gregg Williams kept him on the sidelines for some non-football reason. I don't know which was the case, but I do know this: Rocky will be entering the 2007 season as a rookie in terms of useful game experience.

Re: A. Thomas vs. L. Fletcher
 

very well said sportscurmudgeon

Re: A. Thomas vs. L. Fletcher
 

[QUOTE=sportscurmudgeon;280678]Adelius Thomas is a better linebacker than London Fletcher. I don't think there would be a lot of debate on that point among personnel folks around the league.

But the fact that Thomas made it known that he would not sign with the Ravens if they put the franchise tag on him means he has to be looking for a huge score on the free agent market. Remember, the franchise tag is a guaranteed one-year deal equal to the average salary of the top three linebackers in the league. The minute he signs that deal, the money is guaranteed; even if they cut him, they pay him.

So, Thomas is going to cost a lot of money and that's why he probably should not be first on the Skins' list.

By the way, this business of "knowing the system" is really overrated. London Fletcher "knows the system" in Buffalo but they are not falling all over themselves to keep him. Guess that shows how critical "knowing the system" must be.

With regard to Rocky's lack of playing time last year. Either he's dumb as a box of hammers and could not figure out what he was supposed to do on the various calls or Gregg Williams kept him on the sidelines for some non-football reason. I don't know which was the case, but I do know this: Rocky will be entering the 2007 season as a rookie in terms of useful game experience.[/QUOTE]

Good points.

I don't think that "knowing the system" has tremendous value, but I do think that value can be found in the system "knowing you." By that I mean that we know that X player does well in X scheme because X player already played well in X scheme.

Re: A. Thomas vs. L. Fletcher
 

[QUOTE=sportscurmudgeon;280678]By the way, this business of "knowing the system" is really overrated. [/QUOTE]

Says who?

Re: A. Thomas vs. L. Fletcher
 

[QUOTE=sportscurmudgeon;280678]By the way, this business of "knowing the system" is really overrated. London Fletcher "knows the system" in Buffalo but they are not falling all over themselves to keep him. Guess that shows how critical "knowing the system" must be.[/QUOTE]

If it was all about knowing the system, we'd be plowing along racking up Lombardi trophies with Wuerffel, Reidel Anthony and Jacquez Green

Re: A. Thomas vs. L. Fletcher
 

[QUOTE=sportscurmudgeon;280678]With regard to Rocky's lack of playing time last year. Either he's dumb as a box of hammers and could not figure out what he was supposed to do on the various calls or Gregg Williams kept him on the sidelines for some non-football reason. I don't know which was the case, but I do know this: Rocky will be entering the 2007 season as a rookie in terms of useful game experience.[/QUOTE]

I don't know that the reason we never saw McIntosh was because he didn't know the system. Carlos Rogers wasn't inserted particularly quickly as a rookie either and that was when Walt Harris looked like he couldn't get burnt any worse. I don't think Williams likes throwing young kids into the lineup right away. I really hope that was part of the reason we didn't see much of him.

Re: A. Thomas vs. L. Fletcher
 

Can you guys even afford Thomas? Is that a serious option for you? I'm not farmiliar with the cap situation.

If Thomas goes anywhere else than SF I would be pissed. There is no reason he should go anywhere else, Nolan knows him and he would fit our system perfectly, upgrading the defense significantly. We have 37M to spend I expect to sign at least two top tier FA's with a couple other significant signings, as well as moving up to another 1-2 rounde pick in the draft. Thomas, Clements, Steinbach, Bennett would all be guys I would be pleased to land. I doubt we can land them all, but we better get at least two.

Re: A. Thomas vs. L. Fletcher
 

we always have had a way to get around the cap

Re: A. Thomas vs. L. Fletcher
 

[QUOTE=sportscurmudgeon;280678]By the way, this business of "knowing the system" is really overrated. London Fletcher "knows the system" in Buffalo [B]but they are not falling all over themselves to keep him[/B]. Guess that shows how critical "knowing the system" must be.[/QUOTE]

Yet another brilliant point that seems to have been overlooked by many, including me. I've generally been in favor of the idea of bringing in Fletcher -- he's a veteran, [I]he knows the system[/I], he makes a lot of tackles, and seems to be an affordable upgrade. Yep, I've fallen in line with the "conventional wisdom" on him.

But it doesn't take a football wizard to ponder the question of a player's actual value when he's no longer wanted by his own team. Barring a personality conflict with coaching or the organization, have we fallen into the trap of thinking that we can solve all of our problems by sifting through the trash cans of other teams? Not saying that Fletcher is "garbage" in the literal sense, but ... the question has to be addressed.

When a franchise like the Redskins makes 'dumpster diving' a chief form of personnel acquisition, how good do you honestly expect your team to be when you've stocked your roster with players from teams that aren't any good, and aren't desired by anybody else?

Maybe Fletcher will be the exception to the rule.

Re: A. Thomas vs. L. Fletcher
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven;280708]When a franchise like the Redskins makes 'dumpster diving' a chief form of personnel acquisition, how good do you honestly expect your team to be when you've stocked your roster with players from teams that aren't any good, and aren't desired by anybody else?

Maybe Fletcher will be the exception to the rule.[/QUOTE]

Aside from last offseason, who have we gone "dumpster diving" for since 2000? Have we picked up guys like Barrow from other teams? Sure, but every team does and we didn't exactly break the bank for him.

Re: A. Thomas vs. L. Fletcher
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;280711]Aside from last offseason, who have we gone "dumpster diving" for since 2000? Have we picked up guys like Barrow from other teams? Sure, but every team does and we didn't exactly break the bank for him.[/QUOTE]

Now again, when I say 'dumpster diving' or 'sifting through other teams' trash' I don't necessarily mean they're "garbage" in the literal sense, (though some of them certainly were), I'm talking about taking players that were no longer wanted, or there was no real push to retain them by their original teams. But just off the top of my head, here goes:

Renaldo Wynn
Bruce Smith
Mark Carrier
Jeff George
Jacquez Green
Reidel Anthony
Trung Canidate
Darrell Russell
Daryl Gardener
Jessie Armstead
Jeremiah Trotter
Danny Wuerffel
Shane Mathews
Brandon Noble
Joe Salave'a - wasn't even in another team's garbage can, was out of football
Philip Daniels


Those are just the guys I can think of -- I know there's more. The defensive line seems to be the recipient of most of the garbage, as evidenced by this team's neglect of that position in every single draft since 1997. Some, like Salave'a and Daniels have worked out OK, but it still represents this organization's tendency to treat the defensive line as an afterthought.

Re: A. Thomas vs. L. Fletcher
 

So long as we're counting on PFT for our Fletcher news:

POSTED 7:46 p.m. EST; UPDATED 7:56 p.m. EST, February 26, 2007

FLETCHER DEAL NOT DONE?

Although there are rampant rumors that the Washington Redskins have reached a deal with Bills middle linebacker London Fletcher, a source close to Fletcher says that a final decision has not been made.

The Redskins, Patriots, Lions, and Bills are interested in Fletcher, and the source says that the Bills currently are the favorites to land London, with the Redskins at No.2 on the list.

Ideally, however, the Bills should have the exclusive ability to negotiate with Fletcher until Friday. But that's simply not how it works in the NFL anymore; virtually every team violates the prohibition on tampering when the time comes to talk to pending free agents. Indeed, we're not aware of a single team that doesn't get an early start on chatting with players who technically are the property of others.

Re: A. Thomas vs. L. Fletcher
 

Since when did Buffalo establish themselves as a team sole bent on keeping key players regardless of cost? Occassionally they'll give someone a nice payday (Takeo Spikes) but rare are the words "huge", "contract", "with" and "Buffalo" reported in the same sentence. If Buffalo doesn't want Fletcher perhaps they are continuing along their trend of fiscal restraint and see Fletcher for, accurately, what he is: an aging veteran with some gas left in the tank but not enough to keep at a price above what they are willing to pay.

Fletcher and Thomas aren't too dissimiliar in ability. Thomas gets to the QB and Fletcher makes more tackles. Personally I think we need a guy [B]like[/B] Fletcher who will stick his helmet in someones chest on every play. I'm not willing to pay "Bruce Smith money" though for either of the two 30+ year olds.

Re: A. Thomas vs. L. Fletcher
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven;280718]Now again, when I say 'dumpster diving' or 'sifting through other teams' trash' I don't necessarily mean they're "garbage" in the literal sense, (though some of them certainly were), I'm talking about taking players that were no longer wanted, or there was no real push to retain them by their original teams. But just off the top of my head, here goes:

Renaldo Wynn
Bruce Smith
Mark Carrier
Jeff George
Jacquez Green
Reidel Anthony
Trung Canidate
Darrell Russell
Daryl Gardener
Jessie Armstead
Jeremiah Trotter
Danny Wuerffel
Shane Mathews
Brandon Noble
Joe Salave'a - wasn't even in another team's garbage can, was out of football
Philip Daniels
[/QUOTE]

Almost all of the above players were signed for practically nothing or were from 2000. Moreover, what team doesn't "dumpster dive?" In fact, the Patriots do an awful lot of "dumspter diving" and they've done quite well for themselves.

Re: A. Thomas vs. L. Fletcher
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;280725]Almost all of the above players were signed for practically nothing or were from 2000. Moreover, what team doesn't "dumpster dive?" In fact, the Patriots do an awful lot of "dumspter diving" and they've done quite well for themselves.[/QUOTE]

The point was not to illustrate how much cap space was taken or how we really got burned with back loaded contracts and dead money -- some of those signings were relatively insignificant cap wise.

The point, as evidenced by our overall record since Dan Snyder took over, is to make note of how poor those decisions were, ... not that it needed to be pointed out, it's been beaten to death here, but hey -- that's what this site is for. All of this stemmed from the discussion of London Fletcher, whose signing I support, but with the admission that it could be yet another washed up has been that the Redskins are so famous for attracting.

By the same token, I would also say that it's equally as redundant to say that the New England Patriots do a far better job at evaluating the free agent market than the Washinton Redskins do. That New England is reportedly interested in Fletcher may speak well for the intentions of our front office.