Yet Another #$(&^ing Ramsey Thread...Gotta Keep Up With the #$(&^#ing Brunell Threads
 

I'll leave all of the details here to the Warpath historians - TAFKAS & Matty predominantly - to get all the details right. But a couple of years ago, I recall a few folks here on the Warpath asserting that Patrick Ramsey was going to become a great NFL QB and part of their "reasoning" was that in his first 15 games (?) as a starter, he had a better record than Brett Favre did or Peyton Manning did or John Elway did.

The latest from the [I]NY Daily News [/I]is that the Jets are gonna cut Ramsey soon because if they don't they owe him a $1.4M roster bonus. They'll try to trade him of course, but they've sort of decided that they don't need his services in NYC any longer.


[url=http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/story/501388p-422803c.html]New York Daily News - Sports - Jets set to toss Ramsey[/url]


So, what's the deal here? Is Ramsey still going to become a QB of the caliber of Favre/Manning/Elway (Hall of Fame players no doubt), or is he someone not worth the price of a phone call to see what his asking price is?

I'll vote for "not worth the price ... "

Patrick Ramsey = Thousand Dollar Arm + One Dollar Brain.

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Yeah,the word on Patrick was that he wasn't real bright. Of course, that was the word on Shuler too - now he's in the congress, which sort of reinforces the point. Maybe Ramsey could go into politics.

Now let's see what Offiss has to say:

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I think in retrospect Ramsey lacked a lot. Some his fault and some out of his control. What he had in passing skills he lacked in overall athletic ability and certainly never had what anyone could call a good situation. But without that athletic ability I think he never could have maximized his passing skills, in any situation, simply because so much of being a good NFL QB involves mustering your athletic ability to make plays and Ramsey just didn't have that.

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Obviously, as the former "Ramseyfan," I was one of his biggest supporters. I was wrong in a big way, but you show me one person here who has posted more than once who has never been wrong and I'll show you a liar. I know I certainly admitted midway through 2005 that Ramsey's time had come and gone and that I was wrong about him.

Now, I'm not referring specifically to you SC, but I don't understand the glee that people find in Ramsey's demise. A LOT of people on this site have some strange fascination with watching Ramsey, Brunell, or some other guy's career tank.

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I don't think Ramsey had intelligence issues more than confidence and athletic issues.

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Damn guys why bash Patrick and say hes not smart? for one he hasnt done anything bad to the skins if i recall correctly and also he has a Double Major. so that shows hes not dumb.

How would you fair out when your first year is with Spurrier and you virtually have no o-line. I think that did more bad to him than anything.

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I, too, was a big fan of Ramsey. I liked the guy. He seemed like he had the talent and intangibles to succeed. Unfortunately, what he appears to have lacked was the "football smarts" to succeed. The light just would not stay on. It flickered every once in a while to give us some hope, but he just did not seem to consistently make good decisions.

Regardless of his inability to win a starting job - I wish him well.

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I'm still not sold that Ramsey can't be a good QB in this league. I still saw alot of potential there, and before I say he is done and was a bust at QB, I'm gonna see where he goes the next couple years.

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Sheriff:

Honest Injun: I had no idea you had morphed from "Ramseyfan" into the Sheriff. That was not a shot at you.

I'm not taking any glee in Ramsey's situation or that he's likely not to find any employment beyond #3 emergency QB anywhere in the league. I have no animosity toward Patrick Ramsey.

What I was [B]hoping[/B] to get across was that it would be a good thing for folks to look at Skins' players and potential Skins' players with an objective filter on our eyes and not with "burgundy-and-gold colored glasses". Sometimes, you can see a guy out there on the field in a burgandy and gold uniform and [B]it's OK to admit that he's just not all that good[/B].

FRPLG:

I do believe that the root of Ramsey's "confidence" issues were a lack of "football smarts". [I am not suggesting that he is stupid or that he couldn't spell cat if you spotted him the letters "c" and "t".] But he never seemed able to grasp what he was supposed to be doing out there. When something bad happened - such as an INT or a throw to an area of the field where there were no players of either team - the camera would focus in on him and you'd see in his eyes that he really had not a clue what had just gone wrong. That meant he would have no clue how to get it right the next time...

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Who knows, he may be the next Vinny Testaverde - hanging around forever 'cause he has a big arm and can make a play or two.

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[QUOTE=Gmanc711;281524]I'm still not sold that Ramsey can't be a good QB in this league. I still saw alot of potential there, and before I say he is done and was a bust at QB, I'm gonna see where he goes the next couple years.[/QUOTE]
I kind of feel like Ramsey would be the type of QB that Gibbs would have wanted to draft out of college; although he did throw a lot of INTs at Tulane and that might have been a turn off.
I really place a lot of the blame for Ramsey's failures (up to this point) on Spurrier and the fun-and-gun.

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Uh-oh, how long until we hear calls for Ramsey's return as the #3 with an incentive laden, veteran minimum deal?

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Right after the "Resign Lavar, Smoot, Clark to vet minimum contracts" thread is started.

Isn't Dave Fiore still available for a vet minimum, incentive laden contract?

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[QUOTE=sportscurmudgeon;281528]Sheriff:

Honest Injun: I had no idea you had morphed from "Ramseyfan" into the Sheriff. That was not a shot at you.

I'm not taking any glee in Ramsey's situation or that he's likely not to find any employment beyond #3 emergency QB anywhere in the league. I have no animosity toward Patrick Ramsey.

What I was [B]hoping[/B] to get across was that it would be a good thing for folks to look at Skins' players and potential Skins' players with an objective filter on our eyes and not with "burgundy-and-gold colored glasses". Sometimes, you can see a guy out there on the field in a burgandy and gold uniform and [B]it's OK to admit that he's just not all that good[/B].[/QUOTE]

No prob. Yeah, it's sometimes hard to filter out the burgundy and gold glasses when peering through my glasses at Redskins. It was particularly hard to let go of my support for Ramsey since he was personable (I met him at the airport and had a nice chat), strong-armed, and took a hell of a lot of punishment but kept getting up. Besides, we haven't had a franchise QB in decades. So, it's hard not to try to find glimmers of hope in young QBs, particularly those that we draft in the first round.

Hopefully, JC will not prove to be the next Ramsey.

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At this point I'm not buying the 'Spurrier ruined him' take anymore.

SC is right, it's time to take off the B&G colored glasses and just admit it, he is what he is. An average QB. He's heading into his 6th NFL season and it will likely be with his 3rd team. He's becoming a journeyman.

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14 posts about Ramsey and not a single from offiss? i still Ramsay can be a serviceable NFL quarterback. im not sure if that season with spurrier made him shell shocked for life, or what?

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If anyone followed his career at Tulane he was under just as much constant pressure as he was in the NFL. He even played at a higher weight in college to take all the punishment.

I think his main problems boil down to poor decision making and accuracy issues. Those two will land anyone on a NFL bench really quick, unless your last name is Manning of course.

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[quote=sportscurmudgeon;281497]I'll leave all of the details here to the Warpath historians - TAFKAS & Matty predominantly - to get all the details right. But a couple of years ago, I recall a few folks here on the Warpath asserting that Patrick Ramsey was going to become a great NFL QB and part of their "reasoning" was that in his first 15 games (?) as a starter, he had a better record than Brett Favre did or Peyton Manning did or John Elway did.

The latest from the [I]NY Daily News [/I]is that the Jets are gonna cut Ramsey soon because if they don't they owe him a $1.4M roster bonus. They'll try to trade him of course, but they've sort of decided that they don't need his services in NYC any longer.


[URL="http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/story/501388p-422803c.html"]New York Daily News - Sports - Jets set to toss Ramsey[/URL]


So, what's the deal here? Is Ramsey still going to become a QB of the caliber of Favre/Manning/Elway (Hall of Fame players no doubt), or is he someone not worth the price of a phone call to see what his asking price is?

I'll vote for "not worth the price ... "

Patrick Ramsey = Thousand Dollar Arm + One Dollar Brain.[/quote]

The deal is that he couldn't take the pressure. He didn't have a good head, and couldn't handle the press if he did something wrong... He was a big baby.

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Sheriff:

I believe that Jason Campbell will be a real NFL QB. I'm not going to go nuts and say he's gonna be another Elway or that he'll be better than Manning/Brees/Palmer/McNabb next year. But I think he can become a much better than average NFL QB in the next several years and become someone the Skins can build around. Patrick Ramsey had equivalent arm strength and - given the pounding he took here - had to be as tough as Campbell. But here is why I think Campbell will be a better QB:

1. Campbell can run faster than Ramsey. When a QB has to run to save his ass, that's an important asset. When a QB needs to run to make a play, that's an important asset. Yes, I do recall that one run Ramsey made for about 40 yards in a game situation [it was against the Jets as I recall.]. It was a run that you could have timed with a sundial and it only happened once.

2. Campbell throws the "intermediate passes" much more accurately than Ramsey ever did.

3. When Campbell makes a mistake and comes off the field to talk to the coaches, he explains what he did and why; Ramsey always had a confused "deer-in-the-headlights" approach to those situations. QBs need to be leaders and "deer-in-the-headlights" is not a leadership characteristic.

4. Campbell is learning an NFL offense from the start. Ramsey had to try to learn a "gimmick offense" to start and then try to master an NFL offense. I an NOT saying that Spurrier ruined him; that's just too convenient an argument. But Spurrier's offense was a dead-end road in the NFL and Ramsey wasted time and effort trying to learn how to make it work.

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So is David Carr stupid too cuz he is not looking good either and he was sacked a gazillion times in one season, but i see people, not here, saying hes a great qb just needs protection. not many qbs can ammount to much with that kind of pressure that carr and ramsey faced.

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I agree SC... I think the most promising part of what little we've seen of Campbell so far is the way he handles adversity. He just doesn't get rattled.

I never saw that from Ramsey, he definitely looked rattled when things were going bad. With Campbell you can't tell if he just threw a pick or a 60 yard TD.

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I was wrong about Jeff George too!

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[quote=Mattyk72;281572]I agree SC... I think the most promising part of what little we've seen of Campbell so far is the way he handles adversity. He just doesn't get rattled.[/quote]He did it in college, he's going to be doing it in the NFL. I'm not going to act surprised.

I'm ready to love Jason Campbell--unfortuantely the Football Gods are going to make me wait through an offseason.

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[quote=GTripp0012;281576]He did it in college, he's going to be doing it in the NFL. I'm not going to act surprised.

I'm ready to love Jason Campbell--unfortuantely the Football Gods are going to make me wait through an offseason.[/quote]

That sums it up! After watching him play, I'm ready to love Jason Campbell.

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[quote=70Chip;281503]Yeah,the word on Patrick was that he wasn't real bright. Of course, that was the word on Shuler too - now he's in the congress, which sort of reinforces the point. Maybe Ramsey could go into politics.

Now let's see what Offiss has to say:[/quote]


I could see a Shuler/Ramsey ticket in the future. :cheeky-sm

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Campbell straight up has more athletic ability. He can run a little and much quicker feet that allow him to slide around the pocket much more fluidly as successfully. On top of that Campbell looks like he has confidence and the mental makeup to be an NFL QB. Ramsey could only rely on smarts(as in native intelligence) and passing skills to be successful. Campbell can rely on athleticism, confidence and a solid mental grasp on being a QB as well as passing skills and native intelligence. At least based on the admittedly few games he played last year. Who knows though, maybe he goes bonkers and can't do it either this year.

You have to be able to handle the game ,its speed and its situations mentally to be successful. Most players talk about how when they finally 'got it' it seemed like the game slowed down. I think that is simply that they finally are so in tune with their scheme and football in general and have the confidence that it becomes easy. Remember when driving a car made you nervous as hell and slowly it became easier and less nerve racking? It is the same thing. Ramsey never got comfortable I don't think and it forced him into bad decision making that he couldn't over come without any extraordinary athleticism.

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[quote=Darrell_Green_28;281570]So is David Carr stupid too cuz he is not looking good either and he was sacked a gazillion times in one season, but i see people, not here, saying hes a great qb just needs protection. not many qbs can ammount to much with that kind of pressure that carr and ramsey faced.[/quote]


Ramsey didn't have anywhere near the pressure that Carr faces every year, in fact, NO other QB does.

It wasn't a bad o-line that made Ramsey fail, it was his inability to mature as a QB. He still played like a rookie EVERY year and made the same stupid rookie mistakes (fumbling instead of going down, throwing the ball to defenders while standing in the end zone instead of throwing away...).

His football IQ was lacking...I won't bash him personally without knowing him though.

If you want to blame pressure, explain how Brunell came in and took us to the playoffs with the same o-line?

I was never a Ramsey fan...he always made me nervous about his next mistake...and there was ALWAYS a next mistake. He could throw the ball far, but that alone doesn't make a sucessful NFL QB. It worked for him at Tulane...but that's the last time he'll be successful.

Now Campbell...he's an incredibly intelligent QB who works harder than anyone to progress and mature football-wise. With his running ability and his cannon-arm, he's going to be very sucessful.

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Ramsey is a smart guy, I believe he was a double major at Tulane, but that doesn't mean he's a smart football player.

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SC, I seem to recall the argument was that Ramsey had comparable stats to Elway and Favre over the same period of time in their careers, and that he therefore should be given a similar time span to develop. While it's true that it appears he's nothing more than a career second stringer, its also true imo that he didnt exactly get a fair shot under Gibbs. Hard to fault Gibbs on this one since he seems to have been right, but I don't think this was a bad argument in retrospect.

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This thread title seems out of place amongst the talk and other posts about celebrating 5 Years of TheWarpath.net

This really isn't so much about the history of the Warpath so I'll change the title to make it more thread appropriate :food-smil

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[QUOTE=Mattyk72;281594]Ramsey is a smart guy, I believe he was a double major at Tulane, but that doesn't mean he's a smart football player.[/QUOTE]

The game seems to slowdown for the great players. In the citical moments of a game a great player looks in control and plays in rythm.
For Ramsey the game seems to speed up not slow down. Ramsey seems to choke at the critical moments. He couldn't sense or feel the pash rush around him and so he gave up alot of sacks or turnovers. Great guy with a great arm but lacks the rest. He just doesn't have it.

Re: Yet Another #$(&^ing Ramsey Thread...Gotta Keep Up With the #$(&^#ing Brunell Thr
 

The ultimate downfall of PRam was HOF Coach Gibbs distrust in his abilities after that hit just before halftime of our first game that year. That, combined with HOF Coach Gibbs love of MBrunnell. All of that transpired after Coach Gibbs said PRam was his QB after the last four games of the previous season. It was a change of mind, not lack of speed, or loss of confidence. Or maybe it was all of the above.

Re: Yet Another #$(&^ing Ramsey Thread...Gotta Keep Up With the #$(&^#ing Brunell Thr
 

If Ramsey holds on to jobs outside of football as long as he holds onto the ball, he can look forward to exactly one job change in his life.

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[QUOTE=70Chip;281503]Yeah,the word on Patrick was that he wasn't real bright. Of course, that was the word on Shuler too - now he's in the congress, which sort of reinforces the point. Maybe Ramsey could go into politics.

Now let's see what Offiss has to say:[/QUOTE]

You wanted it you got it, first off Ramsey has more brains in his little toe than Campbell or Brunell will ever know.

My whole contention about Ramsey has been he was never given any kind of a fair shake by Gibbs and I still stand by that, can anyone truely say we are better off right now with Brunell than had we stuck with Ramsey? I don't know how you could? Even if Ramsey was a backup his value would be far greater than Brunell, and cost a lot less money. But knowbody ever wants to allow a player to grow, especially at QB, Ramsey had how many starts? Not enough for 1 full season, I would bring him back in a heartbeat he would be great ins. for Campbell.

I wonder how many of you gave up on Betts? I know I wasen't one of them, I said all along he was a better between the tackles runner than Portis, he hit's the hole harder, and faster than Portis and proved it last season, but he was a piece of garbage until the second half of last season, now we have guys arguing to keep him here unless someone offers a 1st rd pick, funny Gibbs couldn't see Betts talent when he arrived he just ran out and traded for Portis. Yes Betts had health issues but that can't be predicted his talent as a runner was what we had to go on and he's very talented.

I do have to ask what was so great about Campbell last season? Did he do something above average, or was he pretty much below average, I for one was glad to see him in there, but I also have been stareing at Brunell for 3 years, that's kind of like watching some old lady on a treadmill for 3 hours every sunday for 3 years only to have someone take you to the kentucky derby, your horse may come in last but it's a lot more fun to watch.

To put it plain and simple I am not backing off Ramsey I still feel he will succeed it's just a matter of time.

On a lesser note how good is Drew Brees right now? You know the QB who was on the verge of being released after 3 years, the big time bust? He seemed to become a pretty good QB, how many times do we here a QB needs at least 3 years of playing time to really blossom? Well Ramsey was never afforded that opportunity by Gibbs.

And while we are bashing people for performance let's throw one more into the ring who deserves the biggest slam of all for all around performance, that honor goes to one JOE GIBBS! Kudos JG he's a genious at keeping us in the lottery to bad we only have 1 pick, and he will probably screw that up as well.

Re: Yet Another #$(&^ing Ramsey Thread...Gotta Keep Up With the #$(&^#ing Brunell Thr
 

and all is right with the world again

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[quote=Gmanc711;281524]I'm still not sold that Ramsey can't be a good QB in this league. I still saw alot of potential there, and before I say he is done and was a bust at QB, I'm gonna see where he goes the next couple years.[/quote]

I agree, though "good" is a relative term here. I can see him being a good backup & maybe winning a starting job in a few years a la tommy maddox. Some guys take years to develop at the qb position.
I don't ever see Ramsey getting a contract that solidifies him as a team's starter for a few years though.
I liked Ramsey but I'm sure glad Gibbs went after JC.

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[QUOTE=Mattyk72;281795]and all is right with the world again[/QUOTE]

What's really amazing is that Gibbs' influence on the league is so powerful that apparently he somehow convinced the Jets not to give Ramsey a chance either. What team will Ramsey not get a chance to succeed with next?

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[quote=TAFKAS;281801]What's really amazing is that Gibbs' influence on the league is so powerful that apparently he somehow convinced the Jets not to give Ramsey a chance either. What team will Ramsey not get a chance to succeed with next?[/quote]

LOL seriously, first Spurrier messed him up, now Gibbs.

I'm sure Gibbs will make sure he never gets a chance in this league.

Re: Yet Another #$(&^ing Ramsey Thread...Gotta Keep Up With the #$(&^#ing Brunell Thr
 

I don't know which is more ridiculous. His contention that Ramsey has any value or that Betts is a better back than Portis. He must close his eyes when Portis runs the ball because it seems clear to me that Portis is a superior RB just by watching.

Re: Yet Another #$(&^ing Ramsey Thread...Gotta Keep Up With the #$(&^#ing Brunell Thr
 

I thought it was fairly common knowledge that there exists an ancient blood feud between Clan Gibbs and Clan Ramsey.