PFT Rumor: Redskins to Fire Personnel Department After Draft
 

[url]http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm[/url]

[B]'SKINS TO CLEAN HOUSE AFTER THE DRAFT?[/B]

There's talk in league circles that the Washington Redskins will clean out the personnel department following the 2007 draft.

It's presently unclear whether V.P. of football operations Vinny Cerrato would be caught up in the rumored purge. Cerrato was fired by the team during the failed Marty Schottenheimer experiment, and re-hired after Marty was Schott-canned.

Per the 2006 NFL Record & Fact Book, the front office also includes director of pro personnel Louis Riddick, director of college scouting Scott Campbell, pro scouts Terry Ray and Donnie Warren, college scouts Mike Faulkiner, Tim Gribble, Shemy Schembechler, and Jim Zeches, national scouts Russ Bolinger and Joel Patten, and director of football administrtion Eric Schaffer.

[I]I wonder who people will scapegoat after Vinny is gone?[/I]

Re: PFT Rumor: Redskins to Fire Personnel Department After Draft
 

good

Re: PFT Rumor: Redskins to Fire Personnel Department After Draft
 

[QUOTE=dall-assblows;281677]good[/QUOTE]

If they fire Eric Shaffer after the many miracles he's pulled, they're crazy.

Re: PFT Rumor: Redskins to Fire Personnel Department After Draft
 

No need for scouts if we don't have draft picks...

Re: PFT Rumor: Redskins to Fire Personnel Department After Draft
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;281678]If they fire Eric Shaffer after the many miracles he's pulled, they're crazy.[/QUOTE]

Here here.

The only way this makes sense is if we start moving toward a more long term route of using the draft. Otherwise why fire a bunch of guys who basically don't do much anyways. Relative to the amount of players they bring in that is. I would imagine FA is mainly handled by position coaches and coordinators.

Re: PFT Rumor: Redskins to Fire Personnel Department After Draft
 

This would be completely idiotic.

Wouldn't you fire them before the draft and let someone competent pick the players that you are going to make or break your upcoming season!?!?!?!?!?

Re: PFT Rumor: Redskins to Fire Personnel Department After Draft
 

It is hard to establish a scouting dept. It takes literally a year to do it right. They have institutional knowledge and resources that a new group can't just know or have and will need a while to get. To even have a chance at doing this they would have needed to fire everyone the day after the season and hire a new one immediately to be ready for the draft. They didn't and I suspect it was because they came to this decision(if they really did) over a period of time. Same thing happened last year with the Texans keeping Casserely to run the draft and then canning him right after.

Re: PFT Rumor: Redskins to Fire Personnel Department After Draft
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;281678]If they fire Eric Shaffer after the many miracles he's pulled, they're crazy.[/quote]


amen

Re: PFT Rumor: Redskins to Fire Personnel Department After Draft
 

Pro Football Talk is an embarrasment to informational websites. I think they make half of their stuff up.

Re: PFT Rumor: Redskins to Fire Personnel Department After Draft
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;281675][url=http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm]ProFootballTalk.com -- The Best Pro Football Scoop on the Internet[/url]

[B]'SKINS TO CLEAN HOUSE AFTER THE DRAFT?[/B]

There's talk in league circles that the Washington Redskins will clean out the personnel department following the 2007 draft.

It's presently unclear whether V.P. of football operations Vinny Cerrato would be caught up in the rumored purge. Cerrato was fired by the team during the failed Marty Schottenheimer experiment, and re-hired after Marty was Schott-canned.

Per the 2006 NFL Record & Fact Book, the front office also includes director of pro personnel Louis Riddick, director of college scouting Scott Campbell, pro scouts Terry Ray and Donnie Warren, college scouts Mike Faulkiner, Tim Gribble, Shemy Schembechler, and Jim Zeches, national scouts Russ Bolinger and Joel Patten, and director of football administrtion Eric Schaffer.

[I]I wonder who people will scapegoat after Vinny is gone?[/I][/QUOTE]

Well, Well, Well. Apparently PFT stands for "Pilfering From TAFKAS" Let's go back in time a few weeks:

[url]http://www.thewarpath.net/257130-post28.html[/url]

"Yes it's Gibbs' job as President to know what's happening as well as Ceratto's (as whatever his title is), but he's certainly getting a lot of his info on players (strengths, weaknesses, etc.) from the scouting department. [B]So, do we have the wrong scouts in place? [/B]
Isn't Don Warren a scout?"

[url]http://www.thewarpath.net/259603-post16.html[/url]

"I really think [B]the issue is more with scouting[/B] than whether or not we have someone who is a "general manager"

Re: PFT Rumor: Redskins to Fire Personnel Department After Draft
 

Not so sure I'm buying this one? They could certainly tiddy up shop, but clean the house.

I'll believe it when I see it.

Re: PFT Rumor: Redskins to Fire Personnel Department After Draft
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan_nn;281698]Not so sure I'm buying this one? They could certainly tiddy up shop, but clean the house.

I'll believe it when I see it.[/QUOTE]

Yeah I think some tidying up will happen. If I remember right, I think I heard that they're high on Campbell, not so much on Riddick. Or vice versa, I forget

Re: PFT Rumor: Redskins to Fire Personnel Department After Draft
 

Well as long as they keep Eric Schaffer i'm good. I'm gonna be happy if this is the signal of move towards building through the draft.

Re: PFT Rumor: Redskins to Fire Personnel Department After Draft
 

make schaffer gm fire cerrato and let eric put in his own staff

Re: PFT Rumor: Redskins to Fire Personnel Department After Draft
 

I think Riddich may go. He's in charge of pro scouting which means that A.A, Lloyd, Carter, Fauria etc. are on him.

Vinny is probably safe because a) he is a Snyder's puppet meaning any criticism of him or his role is an attack on the boss and b) his firing would lead to long discussions about who's in charge of what and is he going to be replaced.

What's odd is that they drop a rumor about people being fired and then they go to a press guide to find out who those people are. Must be a rather vague rumor:

[I][B]"I heard the Redskins are going to fire someone in their front office." [/B][/I]

[I][B]"Who?"[/B][/I]

[I][B]"Don't know exactly. Someone."[/B][/I]

Is this the way people inside the "league circles" talk to each other?

My take: PFT is Commanding the Dawn again.

Re: PFT Rumor: Redskins to Fire Personnel Department After Draft
 

[QUOTE=EXoffender;281680]No need for scouts if we don't have draft picks...[/QUOTE]

Got that right!

This falls completly on Gibbs shoulders, he's the one who just had to have Brunell, he's the one who just had to have Portis, and so on, am I to believe that he is not responsable for player personel? He has spoken extensivly on how much he loves the NFL now with free agency, he basically tried to usher in a new way of building teams, shun the draft and overpay for players. I am curious what has the scouting dept done wrong? Did they insist on moving up to pick Campbell? Did they insist on moving up to take Mcintosh? And on and on we go. So now we will fire these guy's that are responsable for our failure with the draft, but oh by the way, they will be running this draft for old times sake. Makes a lot of sense, we really need them for this draft after all they have one pick to deceide on.

When it comes to personel, we have the blind leading the blind, does it really matter who we fire? If Gibbs can't spot talent how is he going to find a top talent evaluator? Then hand over all personel decisions to him, I really don't think that will happen.

The draft for Gibbs is like a giant pinata, he's running around in the war room with a blindfold and a big stick hopeing when he gets his turn to swing a good player falls out.

Re: PFT Rumor: Redskins to Fire Personnel Department After Draft
 

Gibbs has to take the blame & he does, but wouldn't the scouting dept. be responsible for finding out about players' personalities & history?
I don't know who to blame, but AA & Loyd both had issues before coming here that the rest of league (and RExi) seemed to know about.

Re: PFT Rumor: Redskins to Fire Personnel Department After Draft
 

[QUOTE=freddyg12;281800]Gibbs has to take the blame & he does, but wouldn't the scouting dept. be responsible for finding out about players' personalities & history?
I don't know who to blame, but AA & Loyd both had issues before coming here that the rest of league (and RExi) seemed to know about.[/QUOTE]

Yup. He has to and he does. But it's the the scouting department that does the research and leg work. Just like any job, upper management (Gibbs and company) analyzes the information that the lower lever employees have put together.

Like I've said before though, so many people like to bitch and moan about our front office and want to see changes but they don't really want any substantial changes. They just want a stylish change, i.e. they just want to see the title General Manager in front of someone's name. Even if everything else stays the same. But the real changes have to come at the bottom, not the top.

It reminds me of the Wizards. They're doing really well now and getting good talent. But what people don't know is that Michael Jordan had a lot to do with that while he was President of the team. He completely overhauled the scouting department. When he got there there were like 2-3 scouts total, and none for overseas markets. He added college and pro scouts across the world, set up a checks and balances system for evaluation. And the team is better for it.

Re: PFT Rumor: Redskins to Fire Personnel Department After Draft
 

ummmm, yeah, why are we firing a guy who's name is Shemy Schembechler?

Re: PFT Rumor: Redskins to Fire Personnel Department After Draft
 

[QUOTE=gabe1984;281835]ummmm, yeah, why are we firing a guy who's name is Shemy Schembechler?[/QUOTE]

And yes he is Bo's son, for those wondering

Re: PFT Rumor: Redskins to Fire Personnel Department After Draft
 

[quote=TAFKAS;281836]And yes he is Bo's son, for those wondering[/quote]

We need to keep that dude for his name, wonder if they call him Shem Shem?

Re: PFT Rumor: Redskins to Fire Personnel Department After Draft
 

[quote=TAFKAS;281808]Yup. He has to and he does. But it's the the scouting department that does the research and leg work. Just like any job, upper management (Gibbs and company) analyzes the information that the lower lever employees have put together.

Like I've said before though, so many people like to bitch and moan about our front office and want to see changes but they don't really want any substantial changes. They just want a stylish change, i.e. they just want to see the title General Manager in front of someone's name. Even if everything else stays the same. But the real changes have to come at the bottom, not the top.

It reminds me of the Wizards. They're doing really well now and getting good talent. But what people don't know is that Michael Jordan had a lot to do with that while he was President of the team. He completely overhauled the scouting department. When he got there there were like 2-3 scouts total, and none for overseas markets. He added college and pro scouts across the world, set up a checks and balances system for evaluation. And the team is better for it.[/quote]

Didn't know that about the Wiz, I just thought his best moves were cutting Howard et al.
This past offseason really brought it home that there are structural flaws w/the team's player acquisition process. I don't care so much about the GM position as I do having quality staff & someone who's accountable, which is Gibbs. Maybe Gibbs will be our MJ in that much of his changes won't come to fruition till after he's gone.
I'm all for overhauling the scouting dept. but it sucks that there's already word on the streets.

Re: PFT Rumor: Redskins to Fire Personnel Department After Draft
 

PFT... If you had 500 monkeys with 500 computers hooked to the internet, you'd get about as good info.

But this is the slow times, so: sure, fire the scouts. But GW was sold on AA, so it's pretty hard to blame Vinny and co for that. Still, brining in someone with the balls and brains to really do the job may help. Also, I agree that it's hard to fault the cap guy here. He's proven that if we want to overspend for an underachieving FA, we can do so at will.

Re: PFT Rumor: Redskins to Fire Personnel Department After Draft
 

[quote=TAFKAS;281836]And yes he is Bo's son, for those wondering[/quote]

I was wondering, nice fun fact TAFKAS.

Re: PFT Rumor: Redskins to Fire Personnel Department After Draft
 

[quote]But what people don't know is that Michael Jordan had a lot to do with that while he was President of the team. He completely overhauled the scouting department. When he got there there were like 2-3 scouts total, and none for overseas markets. He added college and pro scouts across the world, set up a checks and balances system for evaluation. And the team is better for it.[/quote]
He also chased RIP Hamilton out of town.

Can anyone explain to me what Eric Schaffer does and what he's done in the past? I think the first thing we need to do is take the head coach out of the personel department. It hasn't worked for other teams and it's not working for us. Coaches coach, front offices scout and draft. I'm not saying there shouldn't be communication, or Gibbs saying "I'm looking for a WR, but I need someone with some size." for example.

Re: PFT Rumor: Redskins to Fire Personnel Department After Draft
 

There's a lot more to the Hamilton story...but this isn't a Wizards fan site

Re: PFT Rumor: Redskins to Fire Personnel Department After Draft
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;281675][url=http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm]ProFootballTalk.com -- The Best Pro Football Scoop on the Internet[/url]

[B]'SKINS TO CLEAN HOUSE AFTER THE DRAFT?[/B]

There's talk in league circles that the Washington Redskins will clean out the personnel department following the 2007 draft.

It's presently unclear whether V.P. of football operations Vinny Cerrato would be caught up in the rumored purge. Cerrato was fired by the team during the failed Marty Schottenheimer experiment, and re-hired after Marty was Schott-canned.

Per the 2006 NFL Record & Fact Book, the front office also includes director of pro personnel Louis Riddick, director of college scouting Scott Campbell, pro scouts Terry Ray and Donnie Warren, college scouts Mike Faulkiner, Tim Gribble, Shemy Schembechler, and Jim Zeches, national scouts Russ Bolinger and Joel Patten, and director of football administrtion Eric Schaffer.

[I]I wonder who people will scapegoat after Vinny is gone?[/I][/quote]

Don't let the door hit you in the ass.... SEE YA!

Re: PFT Rumor: Redskins to Fire Personnel Department After Draft
 

[quote=Grim21Reaper;281690]This would be completely idiotic.

Wouldn't you fire them before the draft and let someone competent pick the players that you are going to make or break your upcoming season!?!?!?!?!?[/quote]

You'd think so!

Re: PFT Rumor: Redskins to Fire Personnel Department After Draft
 

[quote=Buster;281884]You'd think so![/quote]

Not really, firing the entire dept right before the draft is what would be idiotic. It takes time to put a scouting dept together.

Re: PFT Rumor: Redskins to Fire Personnel Department After Draft
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS;281876]There's a lot more to the Hamilton story...but this isn't a Wizards fan site[/QUOTE]

I'd love to hear it although I believe he is greatly overrated in league circles.

Re: PFT Rumor: Redskins to Fire Personnel Department After Draft
 

[QUOTE=Daseal;281863]Can anyone explain to me what Eric Schaffer does and what he's done in the past? [/QUOTE]

He's the cap accountant. He understands the cap and it rules and figures out how to make $120,000,000 = $100,000,00 in cap space. I think he is a double-edged sword. It seems he and Joe Mendes(his predecessor) we're so good it made the style we use for talent aquisition more feasible. If only they'd sucked maybe we'd be better off.

Re: PFT Rumor: Redskins to Fire Personnel Department After Draft
 

[QUOTE=FRPLG;281902]I'd love to hear it although I believe he is greatly overrated in league circles.[/QUOTE]

I'll PM you later today

Re: PFT Rumor: Redskins to Fire Personnel Department After Draft
 

[quote=Mattyk72;281896]Not really, firing the entire dept right before the draft is what would be idiotic. It takes time to put a scouting dept together.[/quote]Not only that, but everything that those people know about the team's draft strategy will be leaked to the media/other teams.

Re: PFT Rumor: Redskins to Fire Personnel Department After Draft
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS;281923]I'll PM you later today[/QUOTE]

See, now you have peaked my interest. I always liked Hamilton and thought it a shame he moved on.

Re: PFT Rumor: Redskins to Fire Personnel Department After Draft
 

Turn that into a mass PM TAFKAS =p

Re: PFT Rumor: Redskins to Fire Personnel Department After Draft
 

Word. TAFKAS add me to that list.

Re: PFT Rumor: Redskins to Fire Personnel Department After Draft
 

It's nothing salacious for those thinking (hoping) it is. It's just that there was a bigger plan in place for the long term that got screwed over by Abe Pollin's mishandling of Stackhouse's contract when they traded for him. Rip wanted max money from the Wizards-this after talking smack about Jordan in the locker room-but to that point in his career hadn't proven he deserved it. When he was told to basically earn it and he'd get it, he said he was going to bolt when he became eligible for free agency at the end of the year. So they traded him for a salary they could dump (Stackhouse) at the end of the year so they could get some top free agents that had already said off the record they were intent on signing with the Wizards.

It's all worked out but bottom line moving Rip was part of a bigger plan

Re: PFT Rumor: Redskins to Fire Personnel Department After Draft
 

[QUOTE=freddyg12;281800]Gibbs has to take the blame & he does, but wouldn't the scouting dept. be responsible for finding out about players' personalities & history?
I don't know who to blame, but AA & Loyd both had issues before coming here that the rest of league (and RExi) seemed to know about.[/QUOTE]

Very fair point, but to not get it right about Lloyd is on him he could have found out himself by making a few phone calls, or just sitting down with him, he was an NFL player the book was out on him, I do believe you can make time to find that out for a 2nd rd pick.


[QUOTE]Matty72 Not really, firing the entire dept right before the draft is what would be idiotic. It takes time to put a scouting dept together.[/QUOTE]

Agreed as much as I think there all just a bunch of clowns, but don't you think this should have been taken care of well before this draft so we are not jeopardizing this draft.