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Current cap room?
I am very confused as to how much room we currently have after Brunell's new deal. How much space do we have left?
And how much will be expected to have after we cut others such as Hall? |
Re: Current cap room?
$6M - $8M depending on the source
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Re: Current cap room?
[quote=Mattyk72;282139]$6M - $8M depending on the source[/quote]
Is that current or potential? |
Re: Current cap room?
current
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Re: Current cap room?
We have 10 million in Cap Room. After restructuring Brunell and Releasing Fauria.
Go to skinsfan.com and look at the salary cap link. This link was before we released Fauria and Restructured Brunell. We should have about 15 million by the start of Free agency if we cut Wynn, Hall, Patten, and Collins. |
Re: Current cap room?
[quote=skinsfan242;282146]We have 10 million in Cap Room. After restructuring Brunell and Releasing Fauria.
Go to skinsfan.com and look at the salary cap link. This link was before we released Fauria and Restructured Brunell. We should have about 15 million by the start of Free agency if we cut Wynn, Hall, Patten, and Collins.[/quote] Thanks but we have our own cap info right here, and it seems to coincide with LaCanfora's latest blog that says we have about $6M currently. |
Re: Current cap room?
The JLC article says 6 right now and maybe 10 in the future.
Welcome to the site, and I dont think that site is correct. |
Re: Current cap room?
Current Room: $6.0 million
Potential Savings from Cuts: John Hall - $1.5 million Renaldo Wynn - $2.5 million Phillip Daniels - $1.9 million David Patten - $750K (according to LaCanfora that is, Canuck's numbers say we'd take a hit by cutting Patten, so I'm confused on this one. I trust CC more.) Todd Collins - $1.2 million |
Re: Current cap room?
Currently 4.2 mil under the cap - Thought to be the result of prorating the Roster or Other Bonus money owed this year, can be done without player approval or restructure - and through a restructure already done (Jansen).
MOVES ALREADY MADE Brunnel EXPECTED - Expect to see a salary reduction, I would hope he would go down to the going rate for backups (1 mil) but trying to give the low side for the team I will say 2.5 mil salary for next year is probable. 3.7 mil saved ACTUAL -Restructured with a salary cut and saved us 4.38 mil( Not confirmed as the actual details have not been released could be more or less ) THRASH EXPECTED -No ST player is worth his cost = 1.3 mil (Not sure since I think he restructured, but based on what is known now) ACTUAL -He restructured and will cost us 1.105 mil savings = .320 mil FAURIA EXPECTED -cut and save 1 mil ACTUAL -CUT = savings 1 mil VINCENT EXPECTED -Try to resign for vet min. A 5th safety is not worth a extra cap hit of = 1.375 mil ACTUAL -CUT = savings of 1.375mil So far we have saved 4.2 (starting point) 7.075 mil already saved Total CAP ROOM AVAILABLE S FAR = 11.275 Signings to date Frost = 850 K tender - Rule of 51 .285 mil = .565 mil Pucillo = .435 vet min - Rule of 51 .285 mil = .150 mil Signings so far = .715 mil additional charges to this years cap # CURRENT CAP SPACE = 10.56 MIL NOW LETS LOOK AT MOVES THAT CAN STILL BE MADE Other possible moves Duckett- will probably opt out of his final year .700 Hall = 1.5 mil savings -PROBABLE Todd Collins = Make him a coach and save 1.025 mil -NEWS REPORTS SAY PROBABLE Daniels = Production does not match Contract = 1.4 mil (If roster bonus was paid and prorated - If not then save 1.9 mil) Patten - Cut and Save .725 mil (1.762 if cut after June 1st) - NEWS REPORTS SAY PROBABLE Salavea - If we get another DT through FA or the Draft = .720 Wynn = 4th DE not worth the cost = 2 mil Savings STILL MAKE ADDITIONAL CAP SAVINGS OF 8.07 Probable additional deals to be made Springs - Talk out of redskins park is he is wanted to take a pay cut to make him on par for the Safety Position. He will probably be gone and I would think they will make him a June 1st cut to save around 4 - 4.5 mil Other possible restructures - Taking current salary and reducing it to 1 mil and converting the rest to bonus over the life of the contract. (conservative estimates) - personally I wouldnt do any of these due to age and all of these players COULD be cutable after this year for net cap savings or small hits. Washington - 2 mil Griff - 2.2 mil Thomas - 2.25 mil Other possible restructures can save about 6.5 mil Without the other Possible restructures the skins can be 10.56 (currently under) 8.07 MIL (cuts) 4 - 4.5 (Probable Moves) ------------------------------ We can realistically be about 22.63 mil under the cap if the above moves are done without the restructures of Washington, Griff, and Thomas. ****ORIGINAL PREDICTION ****Grand total of 23.245 mil to 25.725 mil under the cap or 29.545 - 32.250 mil under if all possible or conceivable restructures are done. Thanks for reading this long thread. The are my ratings of what I think of the actual moves 1-5. *Update #1 - Updated MB's contract and Frosts and fixing the signings cap hit for the rule of 51. *Update #2 - Updated to add TJ Duckett as a probable cut since he will probably void his last year and currently ESPN has him listed as released. ****If any of my new numbers are wrong or if I miss a signing/restructure/ or release please inform me so that I can edit and correct. I want this to not be a pissing contest between my numbers are better then yours but I want this to be as accurate as possible for my own and other board members peace of mind and reference******* |
Re: Current cap room?
[quote=Schneed10;282165]Current Room: $6.0 million
Potential Savings from Cuts: John Hall - $1.5 million Renaldo Wynn - $2.5 million Phillip Daniels - $1.9 million David Patten - $750K (according to LaCanfora that is, Canuck's numbers say we'd take a hit by cutting Patten, so I'm confused on this one. I trust CC more.) Todd Collins - $1.2 million[/quote] Thanks man. |
Re: Current cap room?
This is pretty accurate i would have to say. It comes from John Clayton, and calculates the Rule of 51 and everything.
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Re: Current cap room?
[quote=skinsfan242;282168]Currently 4.2 mil under the cap - Thought to be the result of prorating the Roster or Other Bonus money owed this year, can be done without player approval or restructure - and through a restructure already done (Jansen).
MOVES ALREADY MADE Brunnel EXPECTED - Expect to see a salary reduction, I would hope he would go down to the going rate for backups (1 mil) but trying to give the low side for the team I will say 2.5 mil salary for next year is probable. 3.7 mil saved ACTUAL -Restructured with a salary cut and saved us 4.38 mil( Not confirmed as the actual details have not been released could be more or less ) THRASH EXPECTED -No ST player is worth his cost = 1.3 mil (Not sure since I think he restructured, but based on what is known now) ACTUAL -He restructured and will cost us 1.105 mil savings = .320 mil FAURIA EXPECTED -cut and save 1 mil ACTUAL -CUT = savings 1 mil VINCENT EXPECTED -Try to resign for vet min. A 5th safety is not worth a extra cap hit of = 1.375 mil ACTUAL -CUT = savings of 1.375mil So far we have saved 4.2 (starting point) 7.075 mil already saved Total CAP ROOM AVAILABLE S FAR = 11.275 Signings to date Frost = 850 K tender - Rule of 51 .285 mil = .565 mil Pucillo = .435 vet min - Rule of 51 .285 mil = .150 mil Signings so far = .715 mil additional charges to this years cap # CURRENT CAP SPACE = 10.56 MIL NOW LETS LOOK AT MOVES THAT CAN STILL BE MADE Other possible moves Duckett- will probably opt out of his final year .700 Hall = 1.5 mil savings -PROBABLE Todd Collins = Make him a coach and save 1.025 mil -NEWS REPORTS SAY PROBABLE Daniels = Production does not match Contract = 1.4 mil (If roster bonus was paid and prorated - If not then save 1.9 mil) Patten - Cut and Save .725 mil (1.762 if cut after June 1st) - NEWS REPORTS SAY PROBABLE Salavea - If we get another DT through FA or the Draft = .720 Wynn = 4th DE not worth the cost = 2 mil Savings STILL MAKE ADDITIONAL CAP SAVINGS OF 8.07 Probable additional deals to be made Springs - Talk out of redskins park is he is wanted to take a pay cut to make him on par for the Safety Position. He will probably be gone and I would think they will make him a June 1st cut to save around 4 - 4.5 mil Other possible restructures - Taking current salary and reducing it to 1 mil and converting the rest to bonus over the life of the contract. (conservative estimates) - personally I wouldnt do any of these due to age and all of these players COULD be cutable after this year for net cap savings or small hits. Washington - 2 mil Griff - 2.2 mil Thomas - 2.25 mil Other possible restructures can save about 6.5 mil Without the other Possible restructures the skins can be 10.56 (currently under) 8.07 MIL (cuts) 4 - 4.5 (Probable Moves) ------------------------------ We can realistically be about 22.63 mil under the cap if the above moves are done without the restructures of Washington, Griff, and Thomas. ****ORIGINAL PREDICTION ****Grand total of 23.245 mil to 25.725 mil under the cap or 29.545 - 32.250 mil under if all possible or conceivable restructures are done. Thanks for reading this long thread. The are my ratings of what I think of the actual moves 1-5. *Update #1 - Updated MB's contract and Frosts and fixing the signings cap hit for the rule of 51. *Update #2 - Updated to add TJ Duckett as a probable cut since he will probably void his last year and currently ESPN has him listed as released. ****If any of my new numbers are wrong or if I miss a signing/restructure/ or release please inform me so that I can edit and correct. I want this to not be a pissing contest between my numbers are better then yours but I want this to be as accurate as possible for my own and other board members peace of mind and reference*******[/quote] Um nothing against your numbers, but that is just hard to read and understand. |
Re: Current cap room?
[quote=skinsfan242;282168]Currently 4.2 mil under the cap - Thought to be the result of prorating the Roster or Other Bonus money owed this year, can be done without player approval or restructure - and through a restructure already done (Jansen).
MOVES ALREADY MADE Brunnel EXPECTED - Expect to see a salary reduction, I would hope he would go down to the going rate for backups (1 mil) but trying to give the low side for the team I will say 2.5 mil salary for next year is probable. 3.7 mil saved ACTUAL -Restructured with a salary cut and saved us 4.38 mil( Not confirmed as the actual details have not been released could be more or less ) THRASH EXPECTED -No ST player is worth his cost = 1.3 mil (Not sure since I think he restructured, but based on what is known now) ACTUAL -He restructured and will cost us 1.105 mil savings = .320 mil FAURIA EXPECTED -cut and save 1 mil ACTUAL -CUT = savings 1 mil VINCENT EXPECTED -Try to resign for vet min. A 5th safety is not worth a extra cap hit of = 1.375 mil ACTUAL -CUT = savings of 1.375mil So far we have saved 4.2 (starting point) 7.075 mil already saved Total CAP ROOM AVAILABLE S FAR = 11.275 Signings to date Frost = 850 K tender - Rule of 51 .285 mil = .565 mil Pucillo = .435 vet min - Rule of 51 .285 mil = .150 mil Signings so far = .715 mil additional charges to this years cap # CURRENT CAP SPACE = 10.56 MIL NOW LETS LOOK AT MOVES THAT CAN STILL BE MADE Other possible moves Duckett- will probably opt out of his final year .700 Hall = 1.5 mil savings -PROBABLE Todd Collins = Make him a coach and save 1.025 mil -NEWS REPORTS SAY PROBABLE Daniels = Production does not match Contract = 1.4 mil (If roster bonus was paid and prorated - If not then save 1.9 mil) Patten - Cut and Save .725 mil (1.762 if cut after June 1st) - NEWS REPORTS SAY PROBABLE Salavea - If we get another DT through FA or the Draft = .720 Wynn = 4th DE not worth the cost = 2 mil Savings STILL MAKE ADDITIONAL CAP SAVINGS OF 8.07 Probable additional deals to be made Springs - Talk out of redskins park is he is wanted to take a pay cut to make him on par for the Safety Position. He will probably be gone and I would think they will make him a June 1st cut to save around 4 - 4.5 mil Other possible restructures - Taking current salary and reducing it to 1 mil and converting the rest to bonus over the life of the contract. (conservative estimates) - personally I wouldnt do any of these due to age and all of these players COULD be cutable after this year for net cap savings or small hits. Washington - 2 mil Griff - 2.2 mil Thomas - 2.25 mil Other possible restructures can save about 6.5 mil Without the other Possible restructures the skins can be 10.56 (currently under) 8.07 MIL (cuts) 4 - 4.5 (Probable Moves) ------------------------------ We can realistically be about 22.63 mil under the cap if the above moves are done without the restructures of Washington, Griff, and Thomas. ****ORIGINAL PREDICTION ****Grand total of 23.245 mil to 25.725 mil under the cap or 29.545 - 32.250 mil under if all possible or conceivable restructures are done. Thanks for reading this long thread. The are my ratings of what I think of the actual moves 1-5. *Update #1 - Updated MB's contract and Frosts and fixing the signings cap hit for the rule of 51. *Update #2 - Updated to add TJ Duckett as a probable cut since he will probably void his last year and currently ESPN has him listed as released. ****If any of my new numbers are wrong or if I miss a signing/restructure/ or release please inform me so that I can edit and correct. I want this to not be a pissing contest between my numbers are better then yours but I want this to be as accurate as possible for my own and other board members peace of mind and reference*******[/quote] I have an MBA in finance and I can't make heads or tails of this. Your numbers could be spot on, but I'd never know because the presentation is so bad that I can't make any sense out of it. |
Re: Current cap room?
It is actually quite simple.
Started 4.3 under, John Clayton Cut Vincent saved 1.3 Cut Fauria saved 1 Restructured Thrash saved .3 Restructured Brunell saved 3.5 Total under 10.4 Add Frost .5 Add Pucillo .15 Total 9.75 under as of Right now. |
Re: Current cap room?
Make Collins a coach??
Now that's news. |
Re: Current cap room?
I still think that figure sounds awfully high
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Re: Current cap room?
where the heck is crazycanuck when you need him?
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Re: Current cap room?
Lets not argue about Degrees, I have an MBA in Accounting. If you take a few seconds to read that it is quite clear. It shows the moves that have been completed, expected moves and what they will save.
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Re: Current cap room?
[quote=Mattyk72;282179]I still think that figure sounds awfully high[/quote]
Yeah I dont think it is around 10, I think skinsfan is adding on extra numbers... |
Re: Current cap room?
[quote=skinsfan242;282181]Lets not argue about Degrees, I have an MBA in Accounting. If you take a few seconds to read that it is quite clear. It shows the moves that have been completed, expected moves and what they will save.[/quote]
No one is arguing about degrees, you presentation was just complicated. May have been easy for you to understand because YOU created it. |
Re: Current cap room?
I know we are all Redskins fans here. And I know you wonder how they fit all these people under the cap every year. Even though they decisions are not the best they know how to manage the money and they have alot more room than you would think. It it would let me post a link i couls show you exactly where the numbers are from but if you go to Skinsfan.com you can see how much each player counts against the cap and the breakout of how the money is spreadd out between bonuses, base salary, and adjustments.
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Re: Current cap room?
[quote=skinsfan242;282177]It is actually quite simple.
Started 4.3 under, John Clayton Cut Vincent saved 1.3 Cut Fauria saved 1 Restructured Thrash saved .3 Restructured Brunell saved 3.5 Total under 10.4 Add Frost .5 Add Pucillo .15 Total 9.75 under as of Right now.[/quote] Much easier to work with. To help us reconcile, I agree with Vincent, Fauria, Thrash, and Brunell. Your Frost and Pucillo numbers are confusing. Frost was tendered at 850K and Pucillo is getting $595K. Are you saying that because Frost was tendered at 850K, he moves into the top 51 and bumps a guy who was on the books for $350K out of the top 51? If that's what you're saying, then I'm with you loud and clear. Our reconciling point comes from the original $4.2 million you're jumping off of. You say there may have been some restructures in there that don't require player consent. It's impossible to reconcile to CC's figures here at the Warpath without knowing what went into that. |
Re: Current cap room?
Did Clayton's 4.2 million include the recent Ladell Betts signing?
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Re: Current cap room?
I'm not pulling anything up at [url]www.skinsfan.com[/url]
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Re: Current cap room?
[quote=Mattyk72;282196]I'm not pulling anything up at [URL="http://www.skinsfan.com"]www.skinsfan.com[/URL][/quote]
Yeah I get an error too. |
Re: Current cap room?
Here is my personal spreadhseet calculation, based off of Crazycanuck's Jan 18 cap numbers. I included TJ Duckett on here only because he was added into the original 114,003 number, so his salary needs to be taken off. These include both cuts that have already happened and "likely" cuts.
[FONT=Arial]Cap Deductions [/FONT][FONT=Arial]2007 Cap Hit [/FONT][FONT=Arial]2006 Dead Cap [/FONT][FONT=Arial]2008 Cap Hit [/FONT][FONT=Arial]Cut down to 51 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]$ (3,645)[/FONT][FONT=Arial] Renaldo Wynn [/FONT][FONT=Arial]$ (4,028)[/FONT][FONT=Arial] $ 1,528 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]Mark Brunell [/FONT][FONT=Arial]$ (6,716)[/FONT][FONT=Arial] $ 3,000 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]David Patten [/FONT][FONT=Arial]$ (3,013)[/FONT][FONT=Arial] $ 1,763 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]$ 3,525 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]John Hall [/FONT][FONT=Arial]$ (1,965)[/FONT][FONT=Arial] $ 465 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]Todd Collins [/FONT][FONT=Arial]$ (1,475)[/FONT][FONT=Arial] $ 225 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]Troy Vincent [/FONT][FONT=Arial]$ (1,458)[/FONT][FONT=Arial] $ 167 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]Christian Fauria [/FONT][FONT=Arial]$ (1,095)[/FONT][FONT=Arial] $ 95 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]TJ Duckett [/FONT][FONT=Arial]$ (700)[/FONT][FONT=Arial] 2007 Starting Number [/FONT][FONT=Arial]$ 114,003 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]Totals [/FONT][FONT=Arial]$ 89,908 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]$ 7,243 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]$ 670 [/FONT][FONT=Arial]2007 Cap Number [/FONT][FONT=Arial]$ 97,821 [/FONT] [FONT=Arial][/FONT] [FONT=Arial]EDIT: Wow forget this, the spreadsheet is completely unreadable on here haha...but I calculated that we have about 11.2m in free space after some cuts...[/FONT] |
Re: Current cap room?
[quote=Mattyk72;282196]I'm not pulling anything up at [URL="http://www.skinsfan.com"]www.skinsfan.com[/URL][/quote]
yeah dead link. |
Re: Current cap room?
The Pucillo and Frost take into account the Rule of 51. The Orginal 4.2 is from John Clayton. You are allowed to covert some money without player consent into bonuses, your aren't doing anything to the amount of money you are just spreading over the cap, it is standand launguage the Redskins put in the contracts they write.
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Re: Current cap room?
Try this skinsfans.com/pcinoz/Rule%20of%2051.htm
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Re: Current cap room?
[quote=skinsfan242;282202]The Pucillo and Frost take into account the Rule of 51. The Orginal 4.2 is from John Clayton. You are allowed to covert some money without player consent into bonuses, your aren't doing anything to the amount of money you are just spreading over the cap, it is standand launguage the Redskins put in the contracts they write.[/quote]
Can you please explain what you mean by rule of 51? |
Re: Current cap room?
Only the top 51 players salaries count against the salry cap.
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Re: Current cap room?
[quote=skinsfan242;282208]Only the top 51 players salaries count against the salry cap.[/quote]
OK so you're netting the Pucillo and Frost contracts against the bums that are getting bumped out of the top 51 by their signings? |
Re: Current cap room?
[quote=skinsfan242;282206]Try this skinsfans.com/pcinoz/Rule%20of%2051.htm[/quote]
Thank you that was helpful. First question, why would you step off of Clayton's $4.2 million when you can just step off of the $6.0 million reported at Skinsfan.com? The Warpath's figures (CrazyCanuck) vary from the SkinsFan information for the following players: Chris Samuels - $8.6 here, $6.2 there. Here, the $8.6 includes signing bonus from both Samuels' original contract and the one from his recent restructure/extension. Clinton Portis - $7.0 here, $6.2 there. Jon Jansen - The figure here does not factor his recent extension. The Portis and Samuels contracts should be reviewed to determine the correct figures. LaCanfora gets his salary cap information from Skinsfan.com, and he's quoting the $6.0 million in space that they are reporting. If CC's figures are right for Samuels and Portis, then the Skinsfan.com figures should be revised from $6.0 million of space down to $2.4 million in space. |
Re: Current cap room?
As you may notice that schedule doesn't have Vincent on it, but it does have Brunell from before and still has Fauria. That schedule is what Clayton was reporting plus the changes from Thrash and Vincent moves.
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Re: Current cap room?
I thought the rule of 51 was how old I'd be when this was finally figured out. I say we go in the middle like around 8,786,561.31.
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Re: Current cap room?
[QUOTE=dmek25;282180]where the heck is crazycanuck when you need him?[/QUOTE]
Sorry, been busy these days. I just did a cap sheets update (Mar.1). Should be on the site soon. I have us at $4.891M in cap room. This includes everything (Betts, Jansen, Brunell, Vincent, Fauria, etc.). Here's the breakdown: Total Cap Hits - $106,672 Less: Rule of 51 - $(3,495) Deadcap - $932 =========================== Grand Total - $104,109 2007 Salary Cap - $109,000 Current Cap Room - $4,891 |
Re: Current cap room?
How will possible anticipated cuts (Wynn, Daniels, Hall, Patten) affect the numbers Nuck
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Re: Current cap room?
I hate how every time free agency starts at 12:01 on March 2nd every year ESPN and NFL.com get overloaded and their sites won't load. It's happened to me for three straight years lol. I can't even get Redskins.com to work lol.
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Re: Current cap room?
[QUOTE=TAFKAS;282355]How will possible anticipated cuts (Wynn, Daniels, Hall, Patten) affect the numbers Nuck[/QUOTE]
Player...............Cap Hit...Rel Fee..Savings Renaldo Wynn.....$4,028...$1,528...$2,500 Phillip Daniels......$3,100...$1,200...$1,900 John Hall............$1,965...$465.....$1,500 Total.................$9,093...$3,193...$5,900 I calculate we can save $1.25M by cutting Patten, but it would be after June 1. |
Re: Current cap room?
[QUOTE=CrazyCanuck;282370]Player...............Cap Hit...Rel Fee..Savings
Renaldo Wynn.....$4,028...$1,528...$2,500 Phillip Daniels......$3,100...$1,200...$1,900 John Hall............$1,965...$465.....$1,500 Total.................$9,093...$3,193...$5,900 I calculate we can save $1.25M by cutting Patten, but it would be after June 1.[/QUOTE] thanks CC! |
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