Bram Weinstein: stay put at No. 6
 

Here's his two cents. He covers the Skins, I usually respect his opinion and this is definitely a different view.

[url=http://coveringtheredskins.blogspot.com/]Covering The Redskins[/url]

Re: Bram Weinstein: stay put at No. 6
 

Actually he makes the most sense. For the life of me, I don't get the fascination over Bly. If he's not a huge upgrade over what we have, and he isn't, why are we playing musical chairs with draft picks?

Just draft the damn guy we need on defense, and let the chips fall where they may.

Re: Bram Weinstein: stay put at No. 6
 

Please please please read this Dan Snyder.

Re: Bram Weinstein: stay put at No. 6
 

He makes a good point, but leaves out something crucial; the Skins are thus far not enamored w/G. Adams or A. Branch according to JLC. For that reason, they don't want to pay #6 money to a guy they can get at say #15, or the Broncos #21. Big difference in $ between those picks.

When looking at it that way, the Skins would benefit w/the pick & less cap for their top rookie. Plus, if Springs doesn't want to be here (who knows the real truth?) & Bly does, we get a corner who is at least equal plus 2 years younger.

I don't want to trade Springs & I have reservations about the Bly deal, but I'm at least encouraged that the front office is asking for more rather than giving everything to Denver.

Re: Bram Weinstein: stay put at No. 6
 

Honestly, I don't think I agree. He kind of contradicts himself in saying, "Stop paying old players and build through the draft."

Ummm, isn't that exactly what they're doing if they make the Bly deal?

Re: Bram Weinstein: stay put at No. 6
 

3 picks in the draft versus possibly 7 or 8? I would think that DRAFTING 7 or 8 players qualifies as building through the draft.

If we stay at six, that's all we get. We get no replacement for Dock, we get no other picks until the late rounds. The chances of those REALLY panning out are VERY slim.

Re: Bram Weinstein: stay put at No. 6
 

If we get a 1st 2nd and 3rd I understand it. If we get a 1st and a 3rd we are a joke.

Re: Bram Weinstein: stay put at No. 6
 

This article makes NO sense. Why pay a high bonus for someone unless you're dead sure they're going to be the second coming?

This team needs depth, we're not one stud player away. We need to build through more picks.

Re: Bram Weinstein: stay put at No. 6
 

We have too many needs to stay put at #6. Denver seems hot and heavy about trading up so I say milk them for everything we can. Switching #1's with them and adding a 2nd and a 3rd would be huge. I really don't see what there is to hate about a deal like that.

Re: Bram Weinstein: stay put at No. 6
 

f-ck Bly...we need to do a straight draft pick trade with Denver in which they compensate us according to the chart. That would mean all 4 of Denvers 1st day picks. Denver wants to toss Bly into the deal and overstate his value and rip us off in the process. If we get a 1st & 2nd and Bly for the 6th pick then we basically spent two 3rd round picks on a 30 year old CB! That trade is awful as reported!

Re: Bram Weinstein: stay put at No. 6
 

As for Springs I find it funny that people are reluctant to part with him. I think Springs and Bly are in the same class of corner at this point in their careers but the big difference right now is Springs' inability to stay healthy.

Re: Bram Weinstein: stay put at No. 6
 

[quote=celts32;286269]f-ck Bly...we need to do a straight draft pick trade with Denver in which they compensate us according to the chart. That would mean all 4 of Denvers 1st day picks. Denver wants to toss Bly into the deal and overstate his value and rip us off in the process. If we get a 1st & 2nd and Bly for the 6th pick then we basically spent two 3rd round picks on a 30 year old CB! That trade is awful as reported![/quote]

If Bly is in the deal they would have to add a 3rd rounder in addition to the 2nd and the swap of #1's.

Re: Bram Weinstein: stay put at No. 6
 

I agree w/ a couple things but one crucial thing is being left off. SS won't take a paycut so his CAP # would be huge if we kept him. He won't restructure. Bly's deal might be a little more cap friendly, well at least for right now.

To get a quality, top cb in Bly and still have a 21st pick and a 2nd/3rd + a potential SS trade for a pick or two might be doable.

FWIW, i'm hoping SS & the skins can work something out. SS, Smoot, Rogers...I could live w/ that secondary.

Re: Bram Weinstein: stay put at No. 6
 

it really depends on the deal. if the broncos give 1,2,3 + bly for the #6, and you can trade springs on top of that for another 2 or 3, then that still gives you a chance to trade up for okoye, or take carriker, as well as taking another DE (because of the great depth) or OG in the 2nd and an OG/TE/etc in the 3rd.

if the deal is only bly, pick 21, and a 3rd rounder, then no, it doesn't make sense, cause it's not a great offer.

Re: Bram Weinstein: stay put at No. 6
 

The again, if we could hold on to Springs and draft a stud lineman, that could do wonders for our pass rush, and our secondary.

I tend to agree that we need to trade down, but I don't want to go crazy about getting Bly. He's really not that good, and If I can hold on to Springs, albeit an unhappy one, I think we could be in good shape.

But I guess Springs would stay healthy for a whole 5 games, so theres always that to consider.

Re: Bram Weinstein: stay put at No. 6
 

Ultimately I don't think it's about Bly. It's about getting more draft picks

Re: Bram Weinstein: stay put at No. 6
 

[quote=Mattyk72;286267]We have too many needs to stay put at #6. Denver seems hot and heavy about trading up so I say milk them for everything we can. Switching #1's with them and adding a 2nd and a 3rd would be huge. I really don't see what there is to hate about a deal like that.[/quote]

Agree. The skins need to remember Denver is the one who is more desparate though. They have a corner that doesn't want to play for them and they want to trade up. Now, when push comes to shove i betcha Bly would play out 2007 w/ the Broncos. He's playing the game though.

Re: Bram Weinstein: stay put at No. 6
 

Does anyone know who Denver is trying to trade up to get at the 6th spot in the draft?

Re: Bram Weinstein: stay put at No. 6
 

A different spin on things. With a coaching staff that has Joe Bugel, and Gregg Williams, the redskins are very effiecient at being able to groom mid level talent based on draft positon to great results. ie Dockery, Captain Choas Chris Cooley, Montgomery.
That being said, the more second and third round picks we get will probably translate into a starter, not to mention a possible pro bowl mention. To many holes to draft this high. Lets utilize this staff that knows how to get the best out of there draft talent.

Re: Bram Weinstein: stay put at No. 6
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;286271]If Bly is in the deal they would have to add a 3rd rounder in addition to the 2nd and the swap of #1's.[/QUOTE]

I am okay with taking Bly(even though I don't want him) as long as they still get a #1, #2, & #3. The Redskins need at least 2 extra draft picks to go all the way down to 21. That's a huge drop...teams have given 1st day draft picks just to move up a spot or two within the top 10. I have a bad feeling that Denver is going to pull the whool over the skins eyes again...and they are going to use Bly to confuse the issue and pull it off.

Re: Bram Weinstein: stay put at No. 6
 

[quote=celts32;286291]I am okay with taking Bly(even though I don't want him) as long as they still get a #1, #2, & #3. The Redskins need at least 2 extra draft picks to go all the way down to 21. That's a huge drop...teams have given 1st day draft picks just to move up a spot or two within the top 10. I have a bad feeling that Denver is going to pull the whool over the skins eyes again...and they are going to use Bly to confuse the issue and pull it off.[/quote]

You're right, they would need at least 2 picks to go down to #21, otherwise it would make no sense at all. Plus considering we already reportedly turned down a deal that would have given us Al Wilson, #21, a 3rd and possibly a 2nd, all for the #6, it tells me that those basic parameters are already on the table.

And going by JLC's speculation:

And, trust me, these teams have been talking about swapping draft picks for weeks, I hear on very good authority, and have already had the parameters of several potential deals in place. So, I still think there is a very good chance we see Bly come to DC, along with Denver's first-round pick, and second- and/or third-round pick, plus maybe a conditional late round pick, in exchange for the 6th overall pick.

Re: Bram Weinstein: stay put at No. 6
 

Why I don't want is for the Skins to get fooled by the Giants' "interest" in Bly. Because I think their interest is a bunch of bull. They just want to scare the Skins into thinking they want Bly to drive the price up. Skins need to call their bluff

Re: Bram Weinstein: stay put at No. 6
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;286292]You're right, they would need at least 2 picks to go down to #21, otherwise it would make no sense at all. Plus considering we already reportedly turned down a deal that would have given us Al Wilson, #21, a 3rd and possibly a 2nd, all for the #6, it tells me that those basic parameters are already on the table.

And going by JLC's speculation:

And, trust me, these teams have been talking about swapping draft picks for weeks, I hear on very good authority, and have already had the parameters of several potential deals in place. So, I still think there is a very good chance we see Bly come to DC, along with Denver's first-round pick, and second- and/or third-round pick, plus maybe a conditional late round pick, in exchange for the 6th overall pick.[/QUOTE]

See...I don't like the "and/or" and the "possible" they keep saying. If the skins don't get an extra 2nd and a 3rd in addition to Bly they were robbed! The skins #6 pick is valued at 1600 points...all 4 of Denvers Day 1 picks which include a #1,#2 & a couple #3's total 1535. So those 4 picks still do not equal the value of our pick. I want Bly left out of this deal so that his debatable value does not interfere with us getting proper compensation.

Re: Bram Weinstein: stay put at No. 6
 

[quote=Mattyk72;286267]We have too many needs to stay put at #6. Denver seems hot and heavy about trading up so I say milk them for everything we can. Switching #1's with them and adding a 2nd and a 3rd would be huge. I really don't see what there is to hate about a deal like that.[/quote]
As has already been posted, we should be in the drivers seat on this one with Denver. It will be fun to see how it unfolds being on the other end of draft day trades

Re: Bram Weinstein: stay put at No. 6
 

I am starting to say no to Bly and trade Denver the 6th pick for their 1st,2nd and both 3rds along with a late rounder! Springs will be ok or trade him to and get someone in the draft!

Re: Bram Weinstein: stay put at No. 6
 

[quote=freddyg12;286255]He makes a good point, but leaves out something crucial; the Skins are thus far not enamored w/G. Adams or A. Branch according to JLC. For that reason, they don't want to pay #6 money to a guy they can get at say #15, or the Broncos #21. Big difference in $ between those picks.

When looking at it that way, the Skins would benefit w/the pick & less cap for their top rookie. Plus, if Springs doesn't want to be here (who knows the real truth?) & Bly does, we get a corner who is at least equal plus 2 years younger.

I don't want to trade Springs & I have reservations about the Bly deal, but I'm at least encouraged that the front office is asking for more rather than giving everything to Denver.[/quote]

I really dont believe that too much even though JLC did say it, i think they are so enamored with Gaines Adams that there trying to make it look like there not interested so other teams stay back, they dont want anyone to trade up and take Gaines, I think hes the guy they have wanted all along, just my opinion though.

Re: Bram Weinstein: stay put at No. 6
 

[quote=RedskinPete;286309]I am starting to say no to Bly and trade Denver the 6th pick for their 1st,2nd and both 3rds along with a late rounder! Springs will be ok or trade him to and get someone in the draft![/quote]

Im with you, I have never understood the point of this trade, Bly is no better than Springs. If corner is that big of a deal we can wait one year and use are first or second round pick next year on one, Im sure Shawn has atleast one more year left in him.

Re: Bram Weinstein: stay put at No. 6
 

[quote=Misterbillysells;286289]Does anyone know who Denver is trying to trade up to get at the 6th spot in the draft?[/quote]

Not that I've heard. That's a good question. My guess would be the same guys we're looking at - DE & DTs. They have that former cleveland d-line & they may think if they can get 1 pass rusher to contribute next year that it will put them over the top.
It definitely looks like they're doing what we did last year & putting it all in for a super bowl.
It may come down to draft day & who's available at #6 & how bad they want him. I hope we make em sweat till they offer up Bly & 5 picks! (even though I want to see Springs stay)

Re: Bram Weinstein: stay put at No. 6
 

[quote=Misterbillysells;286289]Does anyone know who Denver is trying to trade up to get at the 6th spot in the draft?[/quote]

I would think either Alan Branch or Adrian Peterson, when the Browns signed Jamal Lewis it made every other pick in the top ten more valuable, much more valuable. I think there will be several teams looking to move into that 6th spot now, please stop dealing with Denver Joe Gibbs, you always give them the goods and they dont even have to take you to dinner.

Re: Bram Weinstein: stay put at No. 6
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;286271]If Bly is in the deal they would have to add a 3rd rounder in addition to the 2nd and the swap of #1's.[/QUOTE]

Assuming that's true then it's fair. So the trade would be:

#6 pick

for

1st
2nd
3rd
Bly

I can live with that, but I am still not thrilled about giving a 30 year old CB a huge signing bonus.

Re: Bram Weinstein: stay put at No. 6
 

Even if we do the trade for the picks we'll get, what, two additional picks? Now, I've heard the argument that we need depth and we could use the additional picks, and we do. But we're going to go to camp with some players on the depth charts anyway.

My point is, it's a gamble either way. You could draft two guys that still end up not panning out or could be no better than the back-ups we currently have, and get a top tier defensive lineman.

Re: Bram Weinstein: stay put at No. 6
 

I'm not big on bly but he is as least as good as springs. and alot healthier. and it would be wonderful to recoup those picks. it would be alot better for the skins, and make draft day more interesting for me. i say just do it

Re: Bram Weinstein: stay put at No. 6
 

[quote=dmek25;286320]I'm not big on bly but he is as least as good as springs. and alot healthier. and it would be wonderful to recoup those picks. it would be alot better for the skins, and make draft day more interesting for me. i say just do it[/quote]

The sad thing is that were trying to trade our first round pick for our old third round pick, now thats a pretty bad front office.

Re: Bram Weinstein: stay put at No. 6
 

[quote=celts32;286318]Assuming that's true then it's fair. So the trade would be:

#6 pick

for

1st
2nd
3rd
Bly

I can live with that, but I am still not thrilled about giving a 30 year old CB a huge signing bonus.[/quote]

I'm fine with giving him that money as LONG as we have money for Cooley and Taylor towards the end of the year.

Re: Bram Weinstein: stay put at No. 6
 

[QUOTE=GiantsSuck703;286315]I would think either Alan Branch or Adrian Peterson, when the Browns signed Jamal Lewis it made every other pick in the top ten more valuable, much more valuable. I think there will be several teams looking to move into that 6th spot now, please stop dealing with Denver Joe Gibbs, you always give them the goods and they dont even have to take you to dinner.[/QUOTE] I doubt the broncos will deal away all those picks just to get a running back, especially when you consider the fact that Shannahan seems to think it's all about the system. I would think they'd be happier using their 2nd (assuming they don't trade it) on another RB, like Bush from Louisville or Pittman from Ohio State, rather than break the bank on Peterson.
Also, I'm not so sure that the Browns still won't take him. They only signed Lewis to a 1 year contract, so he's obviously not in their long term plans, and they don't seem to be in love with Droughns anymore.

Re: Bram Weinstein: stay put at No. 6
 

If we have Springs, Smoot, Taylor, Rogers, and where does BLY fit

Re: Bram Weinstein: stay put at No. 6
 

[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection;286326]I'm fine with giving him that money as LONG as we have money for Cooley and Taylor towards the end of the year.[/QUOTE]

That's just it...we don't know when they didn't have the money until those guys are gone already. Why not just try and get through another year with Springs and then see where things stand next year. I don't think it will happen...but suppose Rogers develops into a capable #1 CB? Then they never needed Bly...but needed a 2nd or 3rd CB instead. Every penny spent on one player is one less penny for another. I just think Bly is on the wrong side of 30 to be getting a big bonus.

Re: Bram Weinstein: stay put at No. 6
 

[QUOTE=DGreen28;286328]If we have Springs, Smoot, Taylor, Rogers, and where does BLY fit[/QUOTE]

We're not 100% sure Springs will be in that lineup. Plus, Taylor is a safety.

It's a question that needs to be asked though. Assuming Springs is no longer with us, of Bly, Smoot, and Rogers, who is the nickel?

Re: Bram Weinstein: stay put at No. 6
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven;286334]We're not 100% sure Springs will be in that lineup. Plus, Taylor is a safety.

It's a question that needs to be asked though. Assuming Springs is no longer with us, of Bly, Smoot, and Rogers, who is the nickel?[/QUOTE]

I believe Smoot was signed as the nickle but he could easily become #2 if Stonehands Rogers plays like he did last year...

Re: Bram Weinstein: stay put at No. 6
 

[QUOTE=celts32;286332]That's just it...we don't know when they didn't have the money until those guys are gone already. Why not just try and get through another year with Springs and then see where things stand next year. I don't think it will happen...but suppose Rogers develops into a capable #1 CB? Then they never needed Bly...but needed a 2nd or 3rd CB instead. Every penny spent on one player is one less penny for another. I just think Bly is on the wrong side of 30 to be getting a big bonus.[/QUOTE]

I understand your concern, but obviously they aren't comfortable with the thought of Smoot and Rogers at #1 and #2, with Jimoh the only other capable guy backing them up. And all of that hinges on whether Springs is willing to either take a pay cut or restructure. Additionally, if that's not settled before June 1, then who's going to be available at that point if Springs is no longer on the team?

Ultimately you have to look at it like this: Either we stick it out with Springs and HOPE he stays healthy, (along with his increased cap number) or spend nearly the same amount that you would have with a guy who's a couple of years younger in Dre Bly.

Of the two choices, I think you have to lean towards Bly and all the extra draft picks we stand to get.