we still need a guard
 

i know we,ve gone over this before,but we still a left guard.
why have we not brought in edwin multilo or zach piller for a
look to see what they want,to see if we can afford it.i just don,t
understand our thinking?

Re: we still need a guard
 

i understand your concern and it is a valid one i believe the skins r just takin their time to see whats available we have 48 more days till the draft where i believe well see the skins wheel and deal quite a bit and find us a serviceable if not great OG.....im kinda glad were not just jumpin in with both feet right away feels kinda nice....


hail

Re: we still need a guard
 

I'm sure that they have someone targeted. i just wonder what they are waiting on

Re: we still need a guard
 

Yea we do. It would be nice to bring in Edwin Mulitalo, see what kinda cash he's lookin for.

I'm suprised he has dragged into REDSKINS PARK after being crapped on by the DIRTY BIRDS. This would be a great move for the right cash.

Re: we still need a guard
 

Because is the easiest position to replace in football. Why bring in someone now and overpay when we can wait until guys are a little more desperate and get a better value? The difference between a guywe sign now for a good amount of money and someone we sign in 2 or 3 weeks will be minimal and the guwe sign in 2 or 3 weeks will come at half the price. That is if we don't decide to draft someone who'll be even cheaper.

I swear. We finally show some restraint in FA and half the people want to know why. We spend a lot in FA dn the other half want to know why. I guess there really is no pleasing everyone.

Re: we still need a guard
 

[QUOTE=FRPLG;287076]I swear. We finally show some restraint in FA and half the people want to know why. We spend a lot in FA dn the other half want to know why. I guess there really is no pleasing everyone.[/QUOTE]

Post of the year

Re: we still need a guard
 

I'm glad they didn't drop 50 million on a guard in the first 3 days of free agency. I'm so sick of this whirlwind that takes place around the start of free agency. The fact is servicable linemen can be found deep in the NFL Draft. I don't have stats on who was drafted where, but I'm pretty sure there are plenty of starters who can be had in the later rounds. Guards aren't that hard to come by. I say draft a young one and sign a vet to low money and see how that works out. Salaries are starting to get astronomical for everyone. 49 mil to Dock? Come on. I don't want to see the Skins spend that kinda mone on Dock or Mulitalo or any other guard, for that matter.

Re: we still need a guard
 

[quote=skinsfan_nn;287064]Yea we do. It would be nice to bring in Edwin Mulitalo, see what kinda cash he's lookin for.

I'm suprised he has dragged into REDSKINS PARK after being crapped on by the DIRTY BIRDS. This would be a great move for the right cash.[/quote]

Maybe he's not here yet because he sucks. The Ravens running game was terrible last year and their line was nothing to write home about. It's good that we are taking our time. No need to rush. It's only March. Perhaps they are going to go with someone that's already on the roster. I trust Buges.

Re: we still need a guard
 

[quote=jdlea;287111]I'm glad they didn't drop 50 million on a guard in the first 3 days of free agency. I'm so sick of this whirlwind that takes place around the start of free agency. The fact is servicable linemen can be found deep in the NFL Draft. I don't have stats on who was drafted where, but I'm pretty sure there are plenty of starters who can be had in the later rounds. Guards aren't that hard to come by. I say draft a young one and sign a vet to low money and see how that works out. Salaries are starting to get astronomical for everyone. 49 mil to Dock? Come on. I don't want to see the Skins spend that kinda mone on Dock or Mulitalo or any other guard, for that matter.[/quote]

Dock was at the right place at the right time. Buffalo totally overpaid for an average player.

Re: we still need a guard
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;287115]Dock was at the right place at the right time. Buffalo totally overpaid for an average player.[/QUOTE]

I agree, but 80 mil to Clements. 30 mil to Stallworth seems high. It's getting to be like everyone pays guys the Skins would. Too bad we're paying for it in our cap situation in the coming years...if the front office gets them outta this one they should get an award, whether they win anything or not.

Re: we still need a guard
 

[quote=FRPLG;287076]Because is the easiest position to replace in football. Why bring in someone now and overpay when we can wait until guys are a little more desperate and get a better value? The difference between a guywe sign now for a good amount of money and someone we sign in 2 or 3 weeks will be minimal and the guwe sign in 2 or 3 weeks will come at half the price. That is if we don't decide to draft someone who'll be even cheaper.

I swear. We finally show some restraint in FA and half the people want to know why. We spend a lot in FA dn the other half want to know why. I guess there really is no pleasing everyone.[/quote]


FRPLG - I am of the camp that thought the FO has been overpaying for the last couple of years and it is refreshing to see the FO being quiet this offseason (although I believe the main reason we didn't overspend was because the cap was limiting us more than other teams). I think the Skins are waiting until the draft to see what to do at Guard - whether they draft one or pick up one in free agency. To me I think some of the best pickups are the ones you make when players run out of options and sign a contract to avoid unemployment. A perfect example is what happened to the Deshawn Stevenson with the Wizards in the NBA. Deshawn got a little greedy and wanted a huge contract - the Magic declined and Ernie Grunfeld (a smart GM) let go of bricklauyer Jared Jeffries and got Stevenson on the cheap because there weren't many places that Stenvenson could get a contract from.
Maybe the guard from the Ravens asked a little too much from the Redskins and someone in the FO said lets wait and either he will drop his price or we get someone in the draft - in my book this was a smart move in that he is coming off a major injury.

Re: we still need a guard
 

I think if we are looking for a veteran stopgap (like Mulitato), we may as well wait for a post-June 1 cut (which Mulitato is, thanks to the NFL's "Wayback Machine" cutting policy). There will be a number of players who are good that will be available for vet min salaries that can start while youngsters are being groomed, so we don't need to get into a bidding war for a 30+ year old offensive lineman.

Re: we still need a guard
 

If there is anyone who thinks they know about O-Line play:

How hard is it to switch from Tackle to Guard? Could most Tackles do it, could some, or is it difficult? I think Jacoby moved to guard at the end of his career. What I'm getting at is this: re-sign Wade and move Jansen to LG. Or move Wade to LG. Is this un-realistic? If so, why? It seems to me if you can play Tackle you should be able to play Guard.

Re: we still need a guard
 

[quote=70Chip;287134]If there is anyone who thinks they know about O-Line play:

How hard is it to switch from Tackle to Guard? Could most Tackles do it, could some, or is it difficult? I think Jacoby moved to guard at the end of his career. What I'm getting at is this: re-sign Wade and move Jansen to LG. Or move Wade to LG. Is this un-realistic? If so, why? It seems to me if you can play Tackle you should be able to play Guard.[/quote]

I think if they did this I would keep Jansen at Tackle and move Wade to Guard - that way we only have 1 new player on the starting line and less disruption on building continuity.

I believe if Wade does not get a large contract from some other team I think it would be in the Redskins best interest to sign him as a backup tackle and get the guard from elsewhere - the main reason being is both Samuels and Jansen are getting up in years and both have had some injuries and this would provide solid depth in case one of them goes down - is it realistic to expect both Samuels and Jansen to stay healthy the entire year for 2 seasons in a row?

Re: we still need a guard
 

I've heard talk of moving Jansen to left guard and Todd Wade to right tackle. There are two questions that need to be answered: is Todd Wade still good enough? Can Jensen make the switch? If both answers are in the affirmative, it would seem to me that we could save big bucks by only shopping for a backup. I'd like to see virtually all of the spending go to the defense and #6 used for a DE and our second pick used to find a DT to compete with Golston.

Re: we still need a guard
 

[quote=bigSkinsfan61;287038]i understand your concern and it is a valid one i believe the skins r just takin their time to see whats available we have 48 more days till the draft where i believe well see the skins wheel and deal quite a bit and find us a serviceable if not great OG.....im kinda glad were not just jumpin in with both feet right away feels kinda nice....


hail[/quote]

Punctuation marks are your friend.

Re: we still need a guard
 

[quote=70Chip;287134]If there is anyone who thinks they know about O-Line play:

How hard is it to switch from Tackle to Guard? Could most Tackles do it, could some, or is it difficult? I think Jacoby moved to guard at the end of his career. What I'm getting at is this: re-sign Wade and move Jansen to LG. Or move Wade to LG. Is this un-realistic? If so, why? It seems to me if you can play Tackle you should be able to play Guard.[/quote]

tackles are supposed to be better than guards, and need more foot speed/agility to turn the corner vs DEs, whereas OGs just kinda need to stand there in space.

they're still different positions and take a while to adjust to, but, in general, most decent OTs could play OG relatively well.

Re: we still need a guard
 

We have some of the best OL in the league. Just like we plugged Dockery in there as a rookie and didn't miss a beat, we will do it again. We should be able to draft a top five DT or DE at number six but, if we trade down to aquire another pick to draft a G, perhaps we won't be able to draft a difference maker DT or DE like Branch or Jamaal Anderson are a lock to be.

Re: we still need a guard
 

Would that it wee so that the Redskins had "some of the best OL in the league". Sadly, that just doesn't hold up to rational analysis. :nono:

Is Rabach one of the top ten starting centers in the NFL? I doubt it. He may be in the top ten in the NFC, but even that is debatable. There are 32 starting centers; he's below 15 on the list. :nono:

Randy Thomas is a solid offensive guard. Is he one of the outstanding guards in the league? No. In fact, he's not one of the top three offensive guards in the NFC East. He's better than average and a fine player, but "one of the best" he is not. :nono:

Chris Samuels is one of the top ten left tackles in the NFL. He isn't nearly as good as all of his Pro-Bowl appearances might lead you to believe he is. He's not THE dominant left tackle in the NFC. But he's very good. :biggthump

Jon Jansen used to be the best OL on the Skins but injuries - and maybe Father Time - have reduced his effectivness for the past two years. If it was "injuries" that did him in, we should see a huge improvement from that side of the OL next year; it it was Father Time, things will only get worse. I don't know which one it was and no one will really know until the actual season - not the exhibition season - begins. :)

Bottom Line: The Skins OL is OK; there are more than a few that are worse and there are more than a few that are better. And blind faith in Joe Bugeol to "work his magic" is just that; blind faith. He's been here for 3 seasons and the OL is only marginally better now than it was in his first season.:twocents:

Re: we still need a guard
 

i kind of disagree. not with your analysis, but with the results. i believe you do not need 5 pro bowlers, instead 5 guys that will do what needs to be done. without seeking glory, and not afraid to do the dirty work, the things that go unnoticed.

Re: we still need a guard
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;288604]Would that it wee so that the Redskins had "some of the best OL in the league". Sadly, that just doesn't hold up to rational analysis. :nono:

[I][B]They were statistically at least a top 7 line in the league last year.[/B][/I]

Is Rabach one of the top ten starting centers in the NFL? I doubt it. He may be in the top ten in the NFC, but even that is debatable. There are 32 starting centers; he's below 15 on the list. :nono:

[I][B]Top 10? Easy. Gibbs praises the guy every chance he gets, and looking at their production the last two years, I am buying what he is selling.[/B][/I]

Randy Thomas is a solid offensive guard. Is he one of the outstanding guards in the league? No. In fact, he's not one of the top three offensive guards in the NFC East. He's better than average and a fine player, but "one of the best" he is not. :nono:

[I][B]Before Thomas' leg was broken, he was considered the best lineman on the team (that is according to Troy Aikman). I guess you have both of Philly's ahead of him because Dallas' line is comical and the Giants just blew their's up. I completely disagree.[/B][/I]

Chris Samuels is one of the top ten left tackles in the NFL. He isn't nearly as good as all of his Pro-Bowl appearances might lead you to believe he is. He's not THE dominant left tackle in the NFC. But he's very good. :biggthump

[I][B]We will agree to disagree. I will go with the 4 pro bowls voted on by his peers[/B].[/I]

Jon Jansen used to be the best OL on the Skins but injuries - and maybe Father Time - have reduced his effectivness for the past two years. If it was "injuries" that did him in, we should see a huge improvement from that side of the OL next year; it it was Father Time, things will only get worse. I don't know which one it was and no one will really know until the actual season - not the exhibition season - begins. :)

[B][I]Jansen has never been better than Samuels. He isn't as good as he used to be but you cannot deny the production of the unit overall.[/I] [/B]

Bottom Line: The Skins OL is OK; there are more than a few that are worse and there are more than a few that are better. And blind faith in Joe Bugeol to "work his magic" is just that; blind faith. He's been here for 3 seasons and the OL is only marginally better now than it was in his first season.:twocents:[/quote]

[B]The record did not show it but statistically they were one of the best in the league last year. They ran it down everybody's throat and gave up very few sacks even with Brunell starting several games. Feel free to offer up the evidence behind your analysis because it contradicts the year end analysis that I read[/B].

Re: we still need a guard
 

[QUOTE=Bill B;287141]I think if they did this I would keep Jansen at Tackle and move Wade to Guard - that way we only have 1 new player on the starting line and less disruption on building continuity.

I believe if Wade does not get a large contract from some other team I think it would be in the Redskins best interest to sign him as a backup tackle and get the guard from elsewhere - the main reason being is both Samuels and Jansen are getting up in years and both have had some injuries and this would provide solid depth in case one of them goes down - is it realistic to expect both Samuels and Jansen to stay healthy the entire year for 2 seasons in a row?[/QUOTE]



The team is in the process of preparing a contract for Todd Wade presently. The numbers in that contract will give us a pretty good idea as to what his assignment with the team will be. The initial figures beindg discussed far excede those of a back-up RT. We should know more in the next couple days........Stay Tuned

Re: we still need a guard
 

[QUOTE=dmek25;288608]i kind of disagree. not with your analysis, but with the results. i believe you do not need 5 pro bowlers, instead 5 guys that will do what needs to be done. without seeking glory, and not afraid to do the dirty work, the things that go unnoticed.[/QUOTE]

I was going to comment on that guys analysis of our OL, but this post sums it up nicely. We have a group of VERY talented guys, and in fact, I would say that overall we had the best OL in the league last year. Bugel has done a great job. When Dockery first came to the Skins, he sucked. Sorry guys, I know a lot of you loved him here, but he was terrible, but had a lot of room for improvement. He should be thanking Bugel for that huge contract. Bugel made him into the good guard he became.
All we need is a team player at guard and we shouldn't miss a beat. Problem is, there are slim pickens from here, and we need our draft pick for a DE.

Re: we still need a guard
 

SC, gotta disagree. please list who you think is better in the NFC east than thomas. he's still a very good guard in the league (and it take actually listing 10 players and why they're better to convince me he's not in the top 10). rabach might be in the top 15, he's right around average, so 14-16 is about where you'd expect him to be.

Re: we still need a guard
 

NFC East guards better than Randy Thomas? Chris Snee and Shawn Andrews - and maybe Leonard Davis next year but the jury is still way out on that last one. Take off the burgandy and gold colored glasses and you'd trade Thomas for either Snee or Andrews even-up any day of the week.

The Skins don't need - nor have they ever had or will they ever have - 5 ProBowlers on the OL; that's not the point. But they do need 5 guys who are all above average at their positions and that's not what they have now.

As to the statistics that tell everyone that this OL is a great unit - and most particularly to the stats for an OL which are mostly concocted - let me assure you that stats are for teams that finish 5-11. The Indy Colts' fans aren't parsing the stats of their OL; neither are the fans of the Bears, Saints, Pats, Chargers etc. As a unit, what teams in the playoffs this year were so much worse than the Skins on the OL? Maybe there was one; I can't think of one.

And if the Skins could indeed have run the ball don the throats of any opponent they may have faced, how come they didn't do just that? The reason is not that the play calling was stupid - - even though it was stupid more than a couple of times during the season. It was because the team couldn't actually do that. If they could and had, it would have kept the less than fully competent defense off the field for longer periods of time... And maybe the team would have been 7-9 instead of 5-11.

Re: we still need a guard
 

[QUOTE=70Chip;287134]If there is anyone who thinks they know about O-Line play:

How hard is it to switch from Tackle to Guard? Could most Tackles do it, could some, or is it difficult? I think Jacoby moved to guard at the end of his career. What I'm getting at is this: re-sign Wade and move Jansen to LG. Or move Wade to LG. Is this un-realistic? If so, why? It seems to me if you can play Tackle you should be able to play Guard.[/QUOTE]

As I understand it, some offensive lineman talked about this once, it's not hard to switch really from Tackle to Guard. What's hard is being asked to move from one side of the line to another. It's like batting right all your life and then one day coach says "swing lefty today." Your stance gets all out of wack.

According to this lineman, I think maybe it was Ogden, a left tackle is more likely to have success switching to left guard then he would switching to right tackle, even though you'd think that wouldn't be the case. .

Re: we still need a guard
 

[quote=FRPLG;287076]I swear. We finally show some restraint in FA and half the people want to know why. We spend a lot in FA dn the other half want to know why. I guess there really is no pleasing everyone.[/quote]

LOL I was thinking the same thing.

Re: we still need a guard
 

lol.. SC, did u even watch during the reg season? I believe betts had some of the biggest holes i've seen, i truly believe if portis was the 1 back there u would be talking a completely different story. But i completely disagree with you saying our line is not in the top 10.

Re: we still need a guard
 

We had a very good OL last year, probably one of the best we've had in recent memory.

Re: we still need a guard
 

[QUOTE=sportscurmudgeon;288604]Would that it wee so that the Redskins had "some of the best OL in the league". Sadly, that just doesn't hold up to rational analysis. :nono:

Is Rabach one of the top ten starting centers in the NFL? I doubt it. He may be in the top ten in the NFC, but even that is debatable. There are 32 starting centers; he's below 15 on the list. :nono:

Randy Thomas is a solid offensive guard. Is he one of the outstanding guards in the league? No. In fact, he's not one of the top three offensive guards in the NFC East. He's better than average and a fine player, but "one of the best" he is not. :nono:

Chris Samuels is one of the top ten left tackles in the NFL. He isn't nearly as good as all of his Pro-Bowl appearances might lead you to believe he is. He's not THE dominant left tackle in the NFC. But he's very good. :biggthump

Jon Jansen used to be the best OL on the Skins but injuries - and maybe Father Time - have reduced his effectivness for the past two years. If it was "injuries" that did him in, we should see a huge improvement from that side of the OL next year; it it was Father Time, things will only get worse. I don't know which one it was and no one will really know until the actual season - not the exhibition season - begins. :)

Bottom Line: The Skins OL is OK; there are more than a few that are worse and there are more than a few that are better. And blind faith in Joe Bugeol to "work his magic" is just that; blind faith. He's been here for 3 seasons and the OL is only marginally better now than it was in his first season.:twocents:[/QUOTE]


Where to start here?

Well first off all of your evaluations look more like opinions than anything even though they are presented as facts.

First I'd like to know what you're basing your evaluations on? For example why do you think Rabach is below average? Why are other guards better than Thomas?

Second I'd like to know how you can make a statement like "I don't know which one it was and no one will really know until the actual season" about Jansen and then state later "But they do need 5 guys who are all above average at their positions and that's not what they have now." I thought you said you didn't know what Jansen was? Your last statement contrdicts that.

Thirdly you seem to have completely ignored the old saying about the whole being greater than the sum of the parts.

And fourthly I am astounded by the statement "He's been here for 3 seasons and the OL is only marginally better now than it was in his first season". Have you lost your mind. I distinctly remember how poor our line was just 3 years ago. To me, not being able to distinguish between the quality of our line this past season and just 3 years ago shows eaither a total lack of objectivity or just a plain old lack of understanding. It makes everything you say on this matter totally worthless when you make a statement like.

And say all you want about Burgundy colored glasses but not everyone wears those. There are a lot of people on this site who can be objective and you seem to always brand someone who disagrees as "wearing" these metphorical glasses. Could it be that as colored as some people's outlook is based on emotion yours is colored exactly opposite because your emotions lead you to disagree and be negative and pessimistic?

Re: we still need a guard
 

i mean, i watched the games and really didn't see our OL being nearly as dreadful as you're suggesting. it actually looked pretty good compared to the giants or cowboys, and at LEAST equal to philly (though philly has better depth).

3 years ago we had cory raymer as a turnstile at C getting pushed back into the backfield every single play. I've never been more embarrassed than when i had to watch him play. I haven't seen anything like that the last two years though, and both years our #6 OL has been good starter quality to boot.

Re: we still need a guard
 

[QUOTE=That Guy;289290]i mean, i watched the games and really didn't see our OL being nearly as dreadful as you're suggesting. it actually looked pretty good compared to the giants or cowboys, and at LEAST equal to philly (though philly has better depth).

3 years ago we had cory raymer as a turnstile at C getting pushed back into the backfield every single play. I've never been more embarrassed than when i had to watch him play. I haven't seen anything like that the last two years though, and both years our #6 OL has been good starter quality to boot.[/QUOTE] Cory just didn't have any thing left when he came back. Still you are right line play has been better but I would feel better if we had three back ups to fill in! I just remember that Seahawk play-off game!

Re: we still need a guard
 

[quote=jdlea;287117]I agree, but 80 mil to Clements. 30 mil to Stallworth seems high. It's getting to be like everyone pays guys the Skins would. Too bad we're paying for it in our cap situation in the coming years...if the front office gets them outta this one they should get an award, whether they win anything or not.[/quote]

Stallworth was a total overpay. But he's got great skills ( although average hands) and NE had to get Brady some weapons.

Re: we still need a guard
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;288604]Would that it wee so that the Redskins had "some of the best OL in the league". Sadly, that just doesn't hold up to rational analysis. :nono:

Is Rabach one of the top ten starting centers in the NFL? I doubt it. He may be in the top ten in the NFC, but even that is debatable. There are 32 starting centers; he's below 15 on the list. :nono:

Randy Thomas is a solid offensive guard. Is he one of the outstanding guards in the league? No. In fact, he's not one of the top three offensive guards in the NFC East. He's better than average and a fine player, but "one of the best" he is not. :nono:

Chris Samuels is one of the top ten left tackles in the NFL. He isn't nearly as good as all of his Pro-Bowl appearances might lead you to believe he is. He's not THE dominant left tackle in the NFC. But he's very good. :biggthump

Jon Jansen used to be the best OL on the Skins but injuries - and maybe Father Time - have reduced his effectivness for the past two years. If it was "injuries" that did him in, we should see a huge improvement from that side of the OL next year; it it was Father Time, things will only get worse. I don't know which one it was and no one will really know until the actual season - not the exhibition season - begins. :)

Bottom Line: The Skins OL is OK; there are more than a few that are worse and there are more than a few that are better. And blind faith in Joe Bugeol to "work his magic" is just that; blind faith. He's been here for 3 seasons and the OL is only marginally better now than it was in his first season.:twocents:[/quote]

Samuels gets no respect. The guy played great football last year.

Re: we still need a guard
 

[quote=FRPLG;289285]Where to start here?

Well first off all of your evaluations look more like opinions than anything even though they are presented as facts.

First I'd like to know what you're basing your evaluations on? For example why do you think Rabach is below average? Why are other guards better than Thomas?

Second I'd like to know how you can make a statement like "I don't know which one it was and no one will really know until the actual season" about Jansen and then state later "But they do need 5 guys who are all above average at their positions and that's not what they have now." I thought you said you didn't know what Jansen was? Your last statement contrdicts that.

Thirdly you seem to have completely ignored the old saying about the whole being greater than the sum of the parts.

And fourthly I am astounded by the statement "He's been here for 3 seasons and the OL is only marginally better now than it was in his first season". Have you lost your mind. I distinctly remember how poor our line was just 3 years ago. To me, not being able to distinguish between the quality of our line this past season and just 3 years ago shows eaither a total lack of objectivity or just a plain old lack of understanding. It makes everything you say on this matter totally worthless when you make a statement like.

And say all you want about Burgundy colored glasses but not everyone wears those. There are a lot of people on this site who can be objective and you seem to always brand someone who disagrees as "wearing" these metphorical glasses. Could it be that as colored as some people's outlook is based on emotion yours is colored exactly opposite because your emotions lead you to disagree and be negative and pessimistic?[/quote]




Marginally better? HAHA look at 'Career Backup' Patrick Ramsey! The OL was the ENTIRE REASON he doesn't nor ever will have a starting role in the NFL. The OL was HORRIFIC before Bugel. OMFG this Sportscurmegon guy needs an evaluation of his own lol.... Bugel could make your Mom, Dad, Baby brother, baby sister, and YOU be a better OL than most of the NFC. Get bent lol.

Re: we still need a guard
 

why are all the new guys so quick with the insults? you can disagree without getting personal.

Re: we still need a guard
 

[QUOTE=XXVI;289388]Marginally better? HAHA look at 'Career Backup' Patrick Ramsey! The OL was the ENTIRE REASON he doesn't nor ever will have a starting role in the NFL. The OL was HORRIFIC before Bugel. OMFG this Sportscurmegon guy needs an evaluation of his own lol.... Bugel could make your Mom, Dad, Baby brother, baby sister, and YOU be a better OL than most of the NFC. Get bent lol.[/QUOTE]

Hey buddy...um...

I think you agree with me so please don't use my post as a quote when you are going off on someone else.