I don't want Branch
 

When I read about Branch DT from Michigan, at first I thought he was just what we needed. A HUGE DT to clog up the middle. But the more I hear about this guy, the less I like him. This guy never really performed at a high level in college, so Im really really leery of drafting him, because if you don't perform in college, isn't it safe to say you won't perform in the NFL? Check out the link below to see his proday workout. Drade down Skins, trade down!

[URL="http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm"]ProFootballTalk.com -- The Best Pro Football Scoop on the Internet[/URL]

Re: I don't want Branch
 

Well Michigan was one of the best run defenses in division one last year. I am not going to give up on an athletic 330 pounder because of a glorified version of rock paper scissors.

I want production, not sizzle.

Re: I don't want Branch
 

i am not high on branch, but cant say its an educated thing. i only saw him once this season, in Michigan's bowl game. very lackluster, got pushed around by smaller men , and looked lazy at times

Re: I don't want Branch
 

[quote=dmek25;288786]i am not high on branch, but cant say its an educated thing. i only saw him once this season, in Michigan's bowl game. very lackluster, got pushed around by smaller men , and looked lazy at times[/quote]

i am like this

55% - Gaines Adams
20% - Laron Landry
5% - jamaal anderson
15% - amobi okye
5% - alan branch

Re: I don't want Branch
 

thats sweet how you broke it down. how did you come up with the numbers?

Re: I don't want Branch
 

I think Branch could turn out to be a monumental bust. Sure he played DT for one of the best run defenses in the nation, but that wasnt all because of one man. His entire defense was superb, having some of the best linebackers, and arguably the best corner in Leon Hall.

The fact is, Michigan often jumped out to the lead forcing other teams to throw more often. His pro day is evidence that he cant cut it in the pros. He's got the size, but not the drive.

Re: I don't want Branch
 

[QUOTE=Grim21Reaper;288785]Well Michigan was one of the best run defenses in division one last year. I am not going to give up on an athletic 330 pounder because of a glorified version of rock paper scissors.

[B]I want production, not sizzle[/B].[/QUOTE]


I think that's the point. Branch has chronically underperformed. He fits the mold of a prototypical NFL DT, and thats why he is so high on many boards, but if you look at his record in college he has not always achieved on a level consistent with his abilities.

Re: I don't want Branch
 

[quote=CooleyFan47;288799]I think Branch could turn out to be a monumental bust. Sure he played DT for one of the best run defenses in the nation, but that wasnt all because of one man. His entire defense was superb, having some of the best linebackers, and arguably the best corner in Leon Hall.

The fact is, Michigan often jumped out to the lead forcing other teams to throw more often. His pro day is evidence that he cant cut it in the pros. He's got the size, but not the drive.[/quote]


Im sorry but i dont agree with you at all. He was the center piece on a defense that allowed 49.3 rush yards per game, also isnt Leon Hall the same guy who got absolutely embarrased Ted Ginn and Dewayne Jarrett, I wouldnt consider a guy who got burned everytime he played someone with talent the best corner, I think thats reserved for Darrell Revis. I dont care about workouts, we have Mike Mamula as evidence for how much the combine actually means, he dominated this year and your not rated the top prospect at your position by being average all year, he was far from average. Alan Branch is going to dominate at the next level, he would change our run defense for the better the day he was drafted.

Re: I don't want Branch
 

[quote=dmek25;288786]i am not high on branch, but cant say its an educated thing. i only saw him once this season, in Michigan's bowl game. very lackluster, got pushed around by smaller men , and looked lazy at times[/quote]

It was that game that disillusioned me about Branch. I expected to see a superstar and the guy did zip. Tackled no one, didn't penetrate, didn't require special blocking that I could see. Maybe I missed something. I don't have the best TV in the world.

Re: I don't want Branch
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;288788]i am like this

55% - Gaines Adams
20% - Laron Landry
5% - jamaal anderson
15% - amobi okye
5% - alan branch[/quote]


I'm like this:

Okoye 51%
Adams 49%

Re: I don't want Branch
 

Branch is the last player I want for us. When so many sources say the same thing which is he might not have so much heart I say let that fat boy fall down the draft board.

Re: I don't want Branch
 

okoye or gamble on a DE if there's no trade down. the only non DL i'd consider is CJ, which isn't happening.

Re: I don't want Branch
 

Anderson > Okye > Adams > Branch

Re: I don't want Branch
 

I'm not high on Branch either. He sounds too much like another Fat Daddy. An oversized but talented DT that's lazy.

Re: I don't want Branch
 

Any word on whether or FO likes him though? Wasn't he high on their list at one point?

Re: I don't want Branch
 

the team has actually been pretty quiet on who their favorite is, which is a good thing.

Re: I don't want Branch
 

[QUOTE=That Guy;288858]the team has actually been pretty quiet on who their favorite is, which is a good thing.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I've kinda noticed that. Hopefully, that will help in getting us a favorable trade.

Re: I don't want Branch
 

I hope Branch's stocked has dropped so we can draft him [B]after[/B] we trade down. Having Branch, Griffin, and Golston will be a great rotation! And if we've re-signed Wade, we can perhaps draft a G like Allan Barbre (Missouri-Southern), DE Tim Crowder (Texas) or if needed, a CB such as Fred Bennet (S. Carolina) in the 3rd/4th barring trade. Just wishful thinking?

Re: I don't want Branch
 

I don't think I'm too high on Branch either. I'd like Carriker from Nebraska or that Tim Crowder kid from Texas. Once we trade down they should both be available. Of course Okoye is intriguing b/c he can play end and tackle and has a phenomenal motor. And the fact that he's only 19 is crazy.

Re: I don't want Branch
 

I have not seen enough of Okoye. What are his true upsides??

Re: I don't want Branch
 

[quote=CancunCantinaBartender;288889]I have not seen enough of Okoye. What are his true upsides??[/quote]

young, smart, lots of heart, 4 years experience. still could use a little work, a bit small, but no major knocks on him.

Re: I don't want Branch
 

Before we crap all over Branch, lets remember that we haven't had any combine numbers or concrete game film tendencies that make us think he won't be a great player. His draft stock is being lowered by the opinion of select individuals--certainly an inherently flawed process.

Branch is suffering in many ways from a stereotype that all obese players are lazy. The film probably caught him taking a few plays off, but this isn't surprising, I think all D lineman are prone to taking a play off every now and then. It's a physicially exausting position, and a game is long. I'm not excusing or advising it, but just saying that everybody does it.

I don't think game film can show how often a guy rests in comparision to another, because some guys are better at making it look normal.

So what we have in Alan Branch is a guy who can, at times, physically dominate a game on the interior. What we have in Okoye is a guy who can physically dominate on the interior. Well, the draft process is inherently risky. There's no way to know until you get both of them out on the practice field at the same time who has the better "motor."

When studying film, it doesn't matter WHY a guy gets beat, because chances are that the guy who gets beat more at the college level will also get beat more at the pro level. Poor scouting tries to justify the result as a lack of effort, or an inconsistency, etc...

The Skins are obligated to pick the guy of the two they feel would be a better pick assuming they both pan out. There's no such thing as a "safe pick" on the defensive line, because all the data you collect is either observational or subjective. You have 4 years of film on Okoye compared to only 3 on Branch. That's the difference. Any observations made on Okoye from film are going to be more concrete than observations made on Branch.

Outside of that, it's simply drafting the guy who we think can best help the team.

Re: I don't want Branch
 

[quote=GTripp0012;288891]Before we crap all over Branch, lets remember that we haven't had any combine numbers or concrete game film tendencies that make us think he won't be a great player. His draft stock is being lowered by the opinion of select individuals--certainly an inherently flawed process.[/quote]

The NFL website as well as several other sources said that Branch looked out of shape at his pro day workout and during a very intense set of drills got frustrated and looked like he was about to quit. That makes me very skeptical. I really want a self motivated player whoever we get.

Re: I don't want Branch
 

[quote=wilsowilso;288892]The NFL website as well as several other sources said that Branch looked out of shape at his pro day workout and during a very intense set of drills got frustrated and looked like he was about to quit. That makes me very skeptical. I really want a self motivated player whoever we get.[/quote]I don't dispute the validity of the reports, but they also don't tell me very much about Branch as a player. Only game film can do that.

Maybe in his frusterated, tired state, he can still dominate centers and guards a good deal of the time.

This is what we need to find out.

Re: I don't want Branch
 

[quote=GTripp0012;288891]The Skins are obligated to pick the guy of the two they feel would be a better pick assuming they both pan out. There's no such thing as a "safe pick" on the defensive line, because all the data you collect is either observational or subjective. You have 4 years of film on Okoye compared to only 3 on Branch. That's the difference. Any observations made on Okoye from film are going to be more concrete than observations made on Branch.

Outside of that, it's simply drafting the guy who we think can best help the team.[/quote]

I simply want a guy who can play in the middle, hold his ground, and tie up two blockers. We have the LB's, Safeties, and Griff to do the rest. Trust me, a big guy like that will make Griff, Carter, Danials, Fletcher, and Marshall better. It doesn't have to look like he is doing much to improve the defense.

Re: I don't want Branch
 

[quote=GoSkins!;288895]I simply want a guy who can play in the middle, hold his ground, and tie up two blockers. We have the LB's, Safeties, and Griff to do the rest. Trust me, a big guy like that will make Griff, Carter, Danials, Fletcher, and Marshall better. It doesn't have to look like he is doing much to improve the defense.[/quote]
Ditto. And maybe he'll use this as motivation.

Re: I don't want Branch
 

either one's an upgrade, but with heart and intelligence, i'd take okoye first, since self-motivation is important. I mean, unless he gets beat a lot more than branch, but i really don't think that's the case.

Re: I don't want Branch
 

[quote=GoSkins!;288895]I simply want a guy who can play in the middle, hold his ground, and tie up two blockers. We have the LB's, Safeties, and Griff to do the rest. Trust me, a big guy like that will make Griff, Carter, Danials, Fletcher, and Marshall better. It doesn't have to look like he is doing much to improve the defense.[/quote]I think both guys give you what you are looking for.

Re: I don't want Branch
 

[quote=That Guy;288941]either one's an upgrade, but with heart and intelligence, i'd take okoye first, since self-motivation is important. I mean, unless he gets beat a lot more than branch, but i really don't think that's the case.[/quote]I think based on what I've seen, I'd want Okoye also.

I just want the Front Office to land the guy that they think can turn the interior of this D Line around and lead it into the future as opposed to getting caught up in the necessity to trade down. Trading down would be nice, but not if it costs us our shot at the highest rated DL on the board.

We really shouldn't have traded those picks in the first place (it's not like we got anything for them), but 2-3 additional wrongs do not make a right.

Re: I don't want Branch
 

[quote=GTripp0012;288944]I think based on what I've seen, I'd want Okoye also.

I just want the Front Office to land the guy that they think can turn the interior of this D Line around and lead it into the future as opposed to getting caught up in the necessity to trade down. Trading down would be nice, but not if it costs us our shot at the highest rated DL on the board.

We really shouldn't have traded those picks in the first place (it's not like we got anything for them), but 2-3 additional wrongs do not make a right.[/quote]

well yeah, but it's hard to undo those trades now. the problem with denver is that the 21st pick lands us about 5 spots after the last 1st tier DL guy is going to go, which totally craps out our draft and trying to drastically improve the d-line. okoye and carriker are going to go between 12-15 as of right now, so it's safe to trade as far as 12 or 13 and still expect to get our guy, but after that, it gets dicey.

at 21, there are plenty of good values, but they're at WR, DB, possibly OG, etc - nothing high priority, unless you think dwayne bowe is going to magically make the pass rush better.

Re: I don't want Branch
 

I am big on Brach because he is the perfect fit for this d... We are all about stopping the run and with him and griffin on the same line would be hard to run on and if takes on the double team it frees up alot of space

Re: I don't want Branch
 

[quote=That Guy;288858]the team has actually been pretty quiet on who their favorite is, which is a good thing.[/quote]

I did a quick search on JLC's Skins insider to find the one that said they like Okoye & had a good 1st mtg. w/Anderson, but they didn't like ADAms or Branch. I couldn't find the blog but remember reading it.

Of course, our front office may actually have learned to say the opposite to the press & it may be that we love Adams & BRanch. JLC usually gets pretty accurate scoops though, so I'm bettin that he's got this right.

Re: I don't want Branch
 

[url=http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/2007/03/college_kids_invade_redskins_p.html]College Kids Invade Redskins Park - Redskins Insider[/url]

here's where JLC says we like Okoye

Re: I don't want Branch
 

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/01/AR2007030101660.html]Redskins Target Fletcher - washingtonpost.com[/url]

Here's the story I was looking for - was actually from WPost paper, not the blog. Of course, it cites "sources from the NFL combine"!

"After being unimpressed with Clemson's Gaines Adams and intrigued but not overwhelmed by Michigan defensive tackle Alan Branch -- though sources said the team liked its non-workout meeting with Arkansas defensive end Jamaal Anderson -- sources at the NFL scouting combine last week said the Redskins were deeply interested in former Virginia defensive end Patrick Kerney, an eight-year veteran who has played his entire career with Atlanta. "

Re: I don't want Branch
 

If we draft for need, then i would go with a DE to replace Daniels. Carriker or the guy on Ark. I'm not big on Gaines Adams. He seems more like and outside backer in a 3-4.

Re: I don't want Branch
 

[quote=skinsfan69;289118]If we draft for need, then i would go with a DE to replace Daniels. Carriker or the guy on Ark. I'm not big on Gaines Adams. He seems more like and outside backer in a 3-4.[/quote]

I agree with you on Adams and would like Carriker or Okoye, don't know enough about Anderson. Check out the latest mock draft by Pat Kirwan on NFL.com, though. He is a really great football guy and his logic is sound, he even speculates on some possible trades and, unlike basically all other mocks, he actually thinks through the logic (and value) of the trades to both sides involved. Looking at that got me thinking and I am not sort of at a loss for who the Redskins could possibly trade down with besides Denver?

If they really want Okoye they could not really drop down below #8 because Miami could very well take him at #9. If they want one of the top three DE's then they can't go below #10 or #11. If they drop WAY down to #21 they end up with (probably) Jarvis Moss (255 lbs) being the only real 1st Round talent at DE left. So tell me, who besides the Broncos would want to move up to #6 and for what? I guess if Adrian Peterson were still on the board (as he is in Kirwan's mock) maybe they could swing something with Buffalo, but the Bills would, in that situation, probably be pretty secure in getting either Peterson or Lynch and if the Redskins did drop to #12 they would probably miss everyone they would want to target (Branch, Okoye, Adams, Anderson, Carriker) anyway. It seems increasingly that the Skins will be faced with a tough situation of chosing between an elite DL prospect or picking up Bly, getting 2nd and 3rds, and dropping WAY down to #21. Depth vs. an elite player might be the question.

One other scenario, I guess, would be that Houston falls in love with Quinn (and decide to finally dump Carr) and wants to jump Minnesota to get him or, somehow, Joe Thomas falls and Houston makes a move to jump up to get him. That might be the best scenario for the Skins because it would net them a high second round pick plus the elite DL prospect they would seem to covet.

Re: I don't want Branch
 

[quote=SC Skins Fan;289249]I agree with you on Adams and would like Carriker or Okoye, don't know enough about Anderson. Check out the latest mock draft by Pat Kirwan on NFL.com, though. He is a really great football guy and his logic is sound, he even speculates on some possible trades and, unlike basically all other mocks, he actually thinks through the logic (and value) of the trades to both sides involved. Looking at that got me thinking and I am not sort of at a loss for who the Redskins could possibly trade down with besides Denver?

If they really want Okoye they could not really drop down below #8 because Miami could very well take him at #9. If they want one of the top three DE's then they can't go below #10 or #11. If they drop WAY down to #21 they end up with (probably) Jarvis Moss (255 lbs) being the only real 1st Round talent at DE left. So tell me, who besides the Broncos would want to move up to #6 and for what? I guess if Adrian Peterson were still on the board (as he is in Kirwan's mock) maybe they could swing something with Buffalo, but the Bills would, in that situation, probably be pretty secure in getting either Peterson or Lynch and if the Redskins did drop to #12 they would probably miss everyone they would want to target (Branch, Okoye, Adams, Anderson, Carriker) anyway. It seems increasingly that the Skins will be faced with a tough situation of chosing between an elite DL prospect or picking up Bly, getting 2nd and 3rds, and dropping WAY down to #21. Depth vs. an elite player might be the question.

One other scenario, I guess, would be that Houston falls in love with Quinn (and decide to finally dump Carr) and wants to jump Minnesota to get him or, somehow, Joe Thomas falls and Houston makes a move to jump up to get him. That might be the best scenario for the Skins because it would net them a high second round pick plus the elite DL prospect they would seem to covet.[/quote]

good post. Miami may want Okoye, but most boards have the top 3 DEs & Branch ahead of him. Of course that can change between now & then.

I guess the question is whether it's worth it to move down & take the chance that the guy you want is still there? I agree that at #21 most of the guys we'd really want will be off the board, except maybe Carriker. Overall though, if we get 3 picks from Denver I don't think we can pass that up.

Re: I don't want Branch
 

carriker won't be there at 21. one of the top 5 DL should last till about 15. right now okoye and carriker seem to be projected to be the last 2 going.