Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ
 

I know a lot of people blame Vinny Cerrato for all personnel problems, but maybe he is not the antichrist. Jason La Canfora's latest [URL="http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/2007/03/putting_the_baby_to_bed_aka_ca.html#more"]blog[/URL] states that while Vinny scouts talent, he does not weigh in on how much to pay such talent or how much should be traded for players under contract with other teams.

IMHO, much of the ire directed at Vinny is misplaced. By and large, I would say that Vinny has scouted some talented guys. Our offense is absolutely loaded with playmakers, is only missing a good QB, and Vinny seems to have found one in Jason Campbell. The defense has holes, but it also managed to be a top-flight unit for a few years.

It seems like most of the frustration with our personnel decisions has not been with who we target (save perhaps Archie, Lloyd, or Barrow), but with how much we give up to get them (in terms of salary and draft picks). If so, the "blame" doesn't lay at Vinny's feet.

Let the rebuttals begin.

Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ
 

I've always thought that Vinny got way too much blame around here. That being said, if he came on this board he would face an immediate 3 month ban. See you in 3 months Vinny!

Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ
 

Is anyone else sick of the groceries analogy everyone has used since Parcells first made that famous remark?? I sure am.

Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ
 

Vinny C needs to be fired. I mean if Gibbs wants to cook the dinner he should be in charge of buying the groceries.


Matty, what was that about the tuna?

Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ
 

So from the tone of the article I'm getting the idea that we should all be pissed at Danny Boy and President Gibbs (not Coach Gibbs) for paying so much and/or trading away some many of our valuable picks.
If the problem comes from Danny throwing too much money at these guys all the time doesn't that mean that we do need a good GM who's not afraid to stand up to him?
The only problem is that it seems like anyone who would stand up and say "No, we can't pay this player twice his market value," runs the risk of being fired on the spot.

Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ
 

I have been saying all along that Gibbs and GW are the ones who are picking these free agents. Vinny and who ever else are the ones that put the list of available FA or RFA to the table. Gibbs and GW get their picks. Danny is the one that signs the checks. Gibbs and GW meet with these players and their agents are the ones that put the contracts on the table. If gibbs and Co. want the player, Danny gives out the dough. Vinny may take a more prominant role of evaluating college talent, but given our picks since he's been here, most have been no brainers. I'll give Cooley being drafted a pretty damn good pick, but the others are 1st rounders, LaVar, Samuels, Champ, Taylor, Rogers, and Campbell. Dockery in my eyes was another no brainer, an all american coming from a big program dropping to the 3rd round. I have not blamed Vinny for any of the FO mistakes the past so many years. I believe, to Dannys fault, he puts way too much weight on what the coaches are asking for. Vinny is a yes man, and to an extent Danny is Joe's yes man.

Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;290167]I know a lot of people blame Vinny Cerrato for all personnel problems, but maybe he is not the antichrist. Jason La Canfora's latest [URL="http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/2007/03/putting_the_baby_to_bed_aka_ca.html#more"]blog[/URL] states that while Vinny scouts talent, he does not weigh in on how much to pay such talent or how much should be traded for players under contract with other teams.

IMHO, much of the ire directed at Vinny is misplaced. By and large, I would say that Vinny has scouted some talented guys. Our offense is absolutely loaded with playmakers, is only missing a good QB, and Vinny seems to have found one in Jason Campbell. The defense has holes, but it also managed to be a top-flight unit for a few years.

It seems like most of the frustration with our personnel decisions has not been with who we target (save perhaps Archie, Lloyd, or Barrow), but with how much we give up to get them (in terms of salary and draft picks). If so, the "blame" doesn't lay at Vinny's feet.

Let the rebuttals begin.[/QUOTE]

Maybe the blame for Cerrato is misplaced. Maybe it's misplaced for Gibbs. Misplaced for Snyder ...

To whom do we direct the blame for this franchise?

Or are people like me completely wrong and everything's just fine?

Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ
 

[QUOTE=#56fanatic;290194]I have been saying all along that Gibbs and GW are the ones who are picking these free agents. Vinny and who ever else are the ones that put the list of available FA or RFA to the table. Gibbs and GW get their picks. Danny is the one that signs the checks. Gibbs and GW meet with these players and their agents are the ones that put the contracts on the table. If gibbs and Co. want the player, Danny gives out the dough. Vinny may take a more prominant role of evaluating college talent, but given our picks since he's been here, most have been no brainers. I'll give Cooley being drafted a pretty damn good pick, but the others are 1st rounders, LaVar, Samuels, Champ, Taylor, Rogers, and Campbell. Dockery in my eyes was another no brainer, an all american coming from a big program dropping to the 3rd round. I have not blamed Vinny for any of the FO mistakes the past so many years. I believe, to Dannys fault, he puts way too much weight on what the coaches are asking for. Vinny is a yes man, and to an extent Danny is Joe's yes man.[/QUOTE]

Vinny wasn't here when we drafted Champ. And while Cooley looks to be a decent pick, we gave up 2 picks to get him.

If you really get down to it, Dockery and Rock Cartwright were the only suprise gems this crowd has been able to unearth in six drafts.

Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ
 

So... Arch Deluxe, Lloyd, etc must have passed Vinny's basic suck test before they got to the negotiation stage...

Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;290167]
It seems like most of the frustration with our personnel decisions has not been with who we target (save perhaps [B]Archie[/B], Lloyd, or Barrow
Let the rebuttals begin.[/quote]
If I recall correctly, wasn't AA GW's boy? To my understanding GW said "I want, go get" and it was done. Granted I'm sure that it probably had to go through vinny as some sort of filter, but who's going to say no to a defensive guru.

Also, does Vinny incorporate character issues, or is he strictly talent? I can see Lloyd being a character bust, but he clearly has talent, it's just not consistent when his attitude is involved.

Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ
 

even if A.A. was Greg Williams " boy", someone ahead of him in the pecking order should have done their homework, and said no way. we just don't know how the power structure is set up in the front office

Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ
 

[quote=dmek25;290225]even if A.A. was Greg Williams " boy", someone ahead of him in the pecking order should have done their homework, and said no way. we just don't know how the power structure is set up in the front office[/quote]

This is true. I just think we can't lump AA in the cons column under Cerrato's resume because we just don't know if it was his call.

I tend to think Vinny has done a pretty good job at scouting when you look at the team.

Our DL issues are probably completely rested on his shoulder.

Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ
 

[QUOTE=dmek25;290225]we just don't know how the power structure is set up in the front office[/QUOTE]

Which is precisely why I do not understand why Vinny is our whipping boy. I'm sure he deserves some credit for some decisions and some blame for others, but until we know concretely how things operate, we can't say he is to blame or deserves credit for our team's current state.

Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;290232]Which is precisely why I do not understand why Vinny is our whipping boy. I'm sure he deserves some credit for some decisions and some blame for others, but until we know concretely how things operate, we can't say he is to blame or deserves credit for our team's current state.[/quote]
Good post, Everyone makes assumptions (including myself) based on the information we have. The reality is, we really don't have that much information... so speculation wins.

Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;290167]I know a lot of people blame Vinny Cerrato for all personnel problems, but maybe he is not the antichrist. Jason La Canfora's latest [URL="http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/2007/03/putting_the_baby_to_bed_aka_ca.html#more"]blog[/URL] states that while Vinny scouts talent, he does not weigh in on how much to pay such talent or how much should be traded for players under contract with other teams.

IMHO, much of the ire directed at Vinny is misplaced. By and large, I would say that Vinny has scouted some talented guys. Our offense is absolutely loaded with playmakers, is only missing a good QB, and Vinny seems to have found one in Jason Campbell. The defense has holes, but it also managed to be a top-flight unit for a few years.

It seems like most of the frustration with our personnel decisions has not been with who we target (save perhaps Archie, Lloyd, or Barrow), but with how much we give up to get them (in terms of salary and draft picks). If so, the "blame" doesn't lay at Vinny's feet.

Let the rebuttals begin.[/quote]

The TMC has always defended him (perhaps too much so) in the past. Vinny, YOU OWE ME DINNER.

Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;290232]Which is precisely why I do not understand why Vinny is our whipping boy. I'm sure he deserves some credit for some decisions and some blame for others, but until we know concretely how things operate, we can't say he is to blame or deserves credit for our team's current state.[/QUOTE]

I think it's fair to say that Cerrato was the whipping boy because before Gibbs got here, Cerrato was the only "football man" in the front office who had any clout. It was he and Dan Snyder. Snyder didn't know football, so to an extent he gets a pass because he shouldn't be expected to understand the nuances of the NFL. That's why he hired Cerrato.

Now that Gibbs is calling the shots, (we assume anyway) the field gets muddier and the beauracracy is as wide as it is thick -- Gregg Williams gets a say, Saunders might have a say, then there's Cerrato's input, and Snyder gets squeezed in there too.

Minus the Schottenheimer year, Cerrato took the blame because he was the most visible, "football knowledgeable" guy in the front office. If he doesn't deserve the heat he has taken, it's only because the heat is more evenly distributed now than it ever was before.

Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ
 

congrats on 5000 sheriff by the way.

Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ
 

sheriff, you are cordially invited to join me over at my table at the 5000 thread club. sorry, members only

Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ
 

Thanks guys. I didn't even notice that I hit 5,000 posts.

Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ
 

I guess that makes me head of the 5,000 post kiddie table.

Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ
 

What did VC do on offense that was so great? Our entire offense is made up of free agents and trades for established NFL talent.

If he want's to be a real GM, or anyone else in the organization for that matter let them do it through the draft!

Jansen and Cooley and Samuels are the only drafted starters on offense, and I don't know if he was responsible for any of them.

Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ
 

[QUOTE=offiss;290315]What did VC do on offense that was so great? Our entire offense is made up of free agents and trades for established NFL talent.

If he want's to be a real GM, or anyone else in the organization for that matter let them do it through the draft!

Jansen and Cooley and Samuels are the only drafted starters on offense, and I don't know if he was responsible for any of them.[/QUOTE]

But Vinny isn't responsible for trading away picks. So if you don't like that strategy, your beef isn't with Vinny.

I look at our players on offense and I think he did a pretty good job of assembling talent. But, if you don't think the guys I list below are any good, please feel free to differ.

Jason Campbell - It's early, but he looks very promising
Clinton Portis - Need I say more
Ladell Betts - Excellent pick in the middle of the 2nd round
Rock Cartwright - He's not a starter, but he's excellent value for a 7th rounder.
Chris Cooley - Excellent pick, especially in the 3rd round
Santana Moss - Everyone thought we got screwed on the Coles trade, maybe not?
ARE - I simply love the guy, even if he's not posting 1,000 yard seasons
The entire O-line - Love em all.

I think we've got the talent on offense to be incredibly explosive if JC picks up his game and develops nicely.

Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;290319]But Vinny isn't responsible for trading away picks. So if you don't like that strategy, your beef isn't with Vinny.

I look at our players on offense and I think he did a pretty good job of assembling talent. But, if you don't think the guys I list below are any good, please feel free to differ.

Jason Campbell - It's early, but he looks very promising
Clinton Portis - Need I say more
Ladell Betts - Excellent pick in the middle of the 2nd round
Rock Cartwright - He's not a starter, but he's excellent value for a 7th rounder.
Chris Cooley - Excellent pick, especially in the 3rd round
Santana Moss - Everyone thought we got screwed on the Coles trade, maybe not?
ARE - I simply love the guy, even if he's not posting 1,000 yard seasons
The entire O-line - Love em all.

I think we've got the talent on offense to be incredibly explosive if JC picks up his game and develops nicely.[/quote]Campbell will be the best QB in this division by 2008.

Write it down, lock it up.

Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;290232]Which is precisely why I do not understand why Vinny is our whipping boy. I'm sure he deserves some credit for some decisions and some blame for others, but until we know concretely how things operate, we can't say he is to blame or deserves credit for our team's current state.[/QUOTE]

What has Vinnie done in his career to warrant working for the Skins?
Vinnie has never built a winning team. He came from a SF team that was imploding with cap problems and overpaid players.
Sound familiar?
Now he has been part of the Redskins worst years in recent history.
While I do not lay all of the blame on Vinnie he has done nothing to warrant staying.
By the way QB Campbell was a Joe Gibbs pick all the way. Gibbs loved the way Campbell played at Auburn and Gibbs hand picked him.

Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ
 

Defensewins,

(1) What decisions that Vinny made do you disagree with so strongly?
(2) What personnel on our roster who received SB of at least $5M do you think we should not have picked up?
(3) What makes you so certain that Vinny didn't get Gibbs excited about Campbell? Are you just speculating?

I certainly understand if you are pissed about the Redskins recent history, but I have no idea why the blame for our poor record lays at Vinny's feet.

As for San Fran, I believe they had a damn good record during Vinny's tenure.

Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;290398]Defensewins,

(1) What decisions that Vinny made do you disagree with so strongly?
(2) What personnel on our roster who received SB of at least $5M do you think we should not have picked up?
(3) What makes you so certain that Vinny didn't get Gibbs excited about Campbell? Are you just speculating?

I certainly understand if you are pissed about the Redskins recent history, but I have no idea why the blame for our poor record lays at Vinny's feet.

As for San Fran, I believe they had a damn good record during Vinny's tenure.[/QUOTE]

Defensewins can certainly answer for himself, but all you have to do is look at the state of the Redskins since Cerrato has been here. Regardless of the inner-workings of the front office structure, Cerrato has had his hand in the decisions that make the Redskins one of the perennial league-leaders in dead cap money, often with the highest payrolls, but with a 41-55 overall record and only one playoff season in six years.

Whatever his role was with the 49ers, he came to them when their franchise was already established, and we can all see the state he left them in.

Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ
 

Vinny is what's known as a "useful idiot". He catches the blame, but it only deflects from the bigger problem: this team has a horrible organizational philosophy under Danny Boy, and no "real" GM would have enough clout to stand up and go toe to toe with our fantasy football owner and too many overpaid, big-ego coaches.

It would be nice to think we could achieve what we did when JKC had the team with Joe and Bobby B., because the RESULTS ARE WHAT WE ARE CHASIN! Who cares about all the kiddie squables in that era?

Vinny is incompetent, but there's no point in replacing him. Danny Boy would only hire another yes-man. Vinny is no more than a puppet.

Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;290398]Defensewins,

(1) What decisions that Vinny made do you disagree with so strongly?
(2) What personnel on our roster who received SB of at least $5M do you think we should not have picked up?
(3) What makes you so certain that Vinny didn't get Gibbs excited about Campbell? Are you just speculating?

I certainly understand if you are pissed about the Redskins recent history, but I have no idea why the blame for our poor record lays at Vinny's feet.

As for San Fran, I believe they had a damn good record during Vinny's tenure.[/QUOTE]

the Redskins are now 39-51 in seasons in which Vinny Cerrato has had an influence in the front office (excluding 1999, when the roster was set before Snyder took over, and 2001, the Martyball year when Vinny was banished to ESPNews.

Below is from a Washington Time Article by David Elfin that gives a little background of Vinny C's during his SF days, just so you do not think I am making this stuff up.


"San Francisco's drafts became noticeably less productive after Cerrato was promoted to director of player personnel in 1995. The defending Super Bowl champions traded their first-round picks in 1995 and 1996 to move up to select receiver J.J. Stokes, who took three seasons to prove his worth. And while receiver Terrell Owens, a third-rounder in 1996, has become a star, that year's second-rounder, Israel Ifeanyi, was a bust, as is quarterback Jim Druckenmiller, the first-rounder from 1997.....
Other than Owens, 1997 third-rounder Greg Clark and 1998 top choice R.W. McQuarters are the 49ers' only other sure starters from Cerrato's final four drafts. In contrast, the Redskins' drafts from 1995 to 1998 under the much-criticized Charley Casserly yielded 10 projected starters for 1999. And yet, Snyder is replacing Casserly -- who resigned yesterday effective Sept. 3 -- with Cerrato.....
The Redskins had a respected general manager, Charley Casserly, whose astute moves set the 'Skins up to get the second and third picks in the last draft. But Snyder didn't like Casserly, so he fired him and hired Vinny Cerrato, who had undermined the San Francisco 49ers as their player personnel director. The salary cap gets the blame for most of the 49ers' problems, but an equal problem was their poor drafting during Cerrato's time, highlighted (lowlighted?) by his push for QB Jim Druckenmiller in the first round of the 1997 draft. The slow-moving and slow-thinking Druckenmiller was woefully unsuited for the 49ers' offensive system and was dumped by the team before the start of the '99 season....
The quality of San Francisco's free agent signees under Cerrato also slipped ...with cornerback Antonio Langham and defensive end Gabe Wilkins failing to match the productivity of previous arrivals.... "

Does this sound familiar? Bad drafts. Bad FA signings? Bad W-L record.
Same shit..different team!
You still want to keep this guy? Why?

Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;290319]But Vinny isn't responsible for trading away picks. So if you don't like that strategy, your beef isn't with Vinny.

I look at our players on offense and I think he did a pretty good job of assembling talent. But, if you don't think the guys I list below are any good, please feel free to differ.

Jason Campbell - It's early, but he looks very promising
Clinton Portis - Need I say more
Ladell Betts - Excellent pick in the middle of the 2nd round
Rock Cartwright - He's not a starter, but he's excellent value for a 7th rounder.
Chris Cooley - Excellent pick, especially in the 3rd round
Santana Moss - Everyone thought we got screwed on the Coles trade, maybe not?
ARE - I simply love the guy, even if he's not posting 1,000 yard seasons
The entire O-line - Love em all.

I think we've got the talent on offense to be incredibly explosive if JC picks up his game and develops nicely.[/quote]

Have to agree with you there. I'd just really like to see a whole draft one day. Something thats not just a pick or 2 on day one. Anyway I think there are plenty of people on this board who feel the same way about that.

Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ
 

There are plenty of very good picks we have gotten with the current administration. SGG has already named some very good examples. This FO is, overall, doing a much better job. I know a lot of you guys want perfection, but if you want an ever year winner, you're going to have to be patient.

Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;290319]But Vinny isn't responsible for trading away picks. So if you don't like that strategy, your beef isn't with Vinny.

I look at our players on offense and I think he did a pretty good job of assembling talent. But, if you don't think the guys I list below are any good, please feel free to differ.

Jason Campbell - It's early, but he looks very promising
Clinton Portis - Need I say more
Ladell Betts - Excellent pick in the middle of the 2nd round
Rock Cartwright - He's not a starter, but he's excellent value for a 7th rounder.
Chris Cooley - Excellent pick, especially in the 3rd round
Santana Moss - Everyone thought we got screwed on the Coles trade, maybe not?
ARE - I simply love the guy, even if he's not posting 1,000 yard seasons
The entire O-line - Love em all.

I think we've got the talent on offense to be incredibly explosive if JC picks up his game and develops nicely.[/QUOTE]


I really don't like anyone who evaluates talent on our team, I know big surprise:) but I really don't think he has a whole lot of say about trades and draft picks, we all know that Campbell, and Portis, are Gibbs, and Gibbs alone.

And for the record I am not everyone, I was a big Moss guy.

Personally I believe the buck stops with Gibbs, do I believe Cerratto has any clue how to build a team? No! But Gibbs has final say no matter what kind of information any of these guy's feed him, so he is absolutly 100% accountable for talent evaluation, and if you can't evaluate established NFL talent which is almost all we deal with than you have no buisness handling personel.

As for Clinton Portis? I can say more, Stephen Jackson!

Rock who?

I believe Snyder drafted Betts?

Moss should have been a Skin from the start, although VC was gone when we drafted Gardner he said in an interview before we picked that Gardner was the guy we should draft.

Cooley, great pick, but don't forget we had to give up a 2nd rd pick the following season because we didn't have a #2 that season because of the Portis trade, so essentially that trade cost us 2 second rd picks, how nice would Stephen Jackson look in a Skins uniform right now? And would have cost a heck of a lot less, Not to mention the extra picks we would have kept if Bailey were to be traded for just draft picks, let's see we already know we would have had 2#2's plus in all likely hood at least an additional 1st and 2nd rd pick for Bailey and probably more than that. At least 4 draft picks in the first 2 rounds that's a lot of talent we gave up [if we drafted properly] for 1 player, I will never be in favor of that trade, it cost us way to much!

Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ
 

Stephen Jackson? You're saying we should have passed on Sean Taylor and draft a guy who wasn't taken until pick #24?

Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven;290439]Stephen Jackson? You're saying we should have passed on Sean Taylor and draft a guy who wasn't taken until pick #24?[/QUOTE]

No, I was the first guy on this board to start yelling for Taylor, but with the picks we would have recieved from a trade of Bailey rather than a swap and one of our picks, we could have easily grabbed Jackson late in the round and probably have traded down with the #1 and then some to get him with what we would have recieved in return for Bailey. That's all if we have a clue on how to minipulate the draft, and the ability to evaluate college talent and how a player will transition to the pro game, which we don't have a clue unless it's a top 10 no brainer type pick, and we aren't overly brilliant in that dept. unless Rogers has a breakout year?

I would take Jackson in a heartbeat over Portis!

Watched america's game tonight on the 82' Skins, funny Gibbs didn't want Joey T. or Riggin's when he arrived, how wrong was he on that one?

Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ
 

[quote=ArtMonkDrillz;290174]Vinny C needs to be fired. I mean if Gibbs wants to cook the dinner he should be in charge of buying the groceries.


Matty, what was that about the tuna?[/quote]
Why do so many keep giving Gibbs a free pass on bad personnel decisions and questionable trades of future draft picks??? Gibbs is THE PRESIDENT OF FOOTBALL OPERATIONS. He has the FINAL say on all personnel decisions that have been done since he returned, including signing Brunell, Archuletta, trading future draft choices for Duckett and Lloyd. Not every decisions has been bad, but it has been Gibbs's mismanagement of mid-round draft choices that has cost the team valuable depth. That we only have a single pick on the first day, then nothing more until round 5 is a testament to that mismanagement.

Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ
 

[quote=skinsguy;290430]There are plenty of very good picks we have gotten with the current administration. SGG has already named some very good examples. This FO is, overall, doing a much better job. I know a lot of you guys want perfection, but if you want an ever year winner, you're going to have to be patient.[/quote]


thnk about it. of the players named before drafted by this FO since 2000. LaVar, Champ, Samuels, Jansen could not be placed on this administration. Casserly set us up with LaVar and Samuels, Jansen was all ready here. of the picks this FO has made, how many are starters, or play at all. Campbell, Rock, Taylor, Cooley,Smoot, I am probably forgetting a number of players, but my point is out of 7 years, 49 picks I dont think we have 10 to 15 players that have panned out, or stayed with the organization. Our team is made up of basically FA from other teams. and the ones we draft that are decent players, they are cast off for some reason. Whether Vinny is on the hook for most if not all of these issues is beside the point. Someone is letting him, Joe, GW, Mr. Saunders make these calls. Danny at some point has to wise up and put someone in charge. Any in charge totally. I give Danny credit for willing to pay the money and spend every dime to put players on the field, he is awesome in that regard. but at some point he has to step back and say this plan has not worked out. 7 to 8 years of this structure hasn't produced what we want, what the fans want and deserve for their loyalty to this team. the fact that we have the highest payroll year end year out, the highest dead cap figure every year, and one of the worst records in the NFL over the last 10 years should say something about the way they do things.

Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ
 

[QUOTE=#56fanatic;290532]thnk about it. of the players named before drafted by this FO since 2000. LaVar, Champ, Samuels, Jansen could not be placed on this administration. Casserly set us up with LaVar and Samuels, Jansen was all ready here. of the picks this FO has made, how many are starters, or play at all. Campbell, Rock, Taylor, Cooley,Smoot, I am probably forgetting a number of players, but my point is out of 7 years, 49 picks I dont think we have 10 to 15 players that have panned out, or stayed with the organization. Our team is made up of basically FA from other teams. and the ones we draft that are decent players, they are cast off for some reason. Whether Vinny is on the hook for most if not all of these issues is beside the point. Someone is letting him, Joe, GW, Mr. Saunders make these calls. Danny at some point has to wise up and put someone in charge. Any in charge totally. I give Danny credit for willing to pay the money and spend every dime to put players on the field, he is awesome in that regard. but at some point he has to step back and say this plan has not worked out. 7 to 8 years of this structure hasn't produced what we want, what the fans want and deserve for their loyalty to this team. the fact that we have the highest payroll year end year out, the highest dead cap figure every year, and one of the worst records in the NFL over the last 10 years should say something about the way they do things.[/QUOTE]

This is exactly the point, we need a good, strong GM. Snyder needs to remove himself for the player aquisition process and let a professional handle it. This is not a fantasy football league, which was the way Snyder first handled the team.
Cerrato just needs to go. We need a change REGADLESS of who is to blame for what. Our drafts have sucked. Look at a team like the Chargers or Patriots, built mostly from strong drafts. We do not have many of our draft picks left on the team because they sucked. That is the fault of the front office. Time for changes.
Nobody has answered this: why do you want to keep Vinny and our front office the way it is currently? The proof is on the field and on our payroll numbers. Since 1999 we had one of the highest payrolls but our team has been in the bottom half in regards to W-L records and ability. Our fron t office has a failing grade. Sorry, but it is true.

Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ
 

[quote=Beemnseven;290209]Vinny wasn't here when we drafted Champ. And while Cooley looks to be a decent pick, we gave up 2 picks to get him.

If you really get down to it, Dockery and Rock Cartwright were the only suprise gems this crowd has been able to unearth in six drafts.[/quote]

Cooley was decent? Sean Taylor? Betts? Campbell?

Cooley is awesome bro!!

Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ
 

[QUOTE=JDALY27;290580]Cooley was decent? Sean Taylor? Betts? Campbell?

Cooley is awesome bro!![/QUOTE]

A real "steal" would have been us getting Cooley without having to trade a future pick to get him. He was a 2-for-1 deal. And I hope you're sitting down because ... I don't put Cooley in the top tier of tight ends in the league.

Sean Taylor was a no-brainer, and yet he still has issues of his own to address before he can honestly be labeled a 'complete' safety. He still needs some progress.

And Betts? Many knowledgeable football people in 2002 had him rated as a 4th round pick, so it was a big-time reach for us to take him in the second round. And while he turned it on and gave us the performance of a lifetime last year, overall I don't think you can say his total output has been worthy of a second round pick -- they should be starters, not back-up guys.

Look, I can dissect just about everything this front office has done and find fault with it. I'll give them Dockery and Cartwright -- those were the only unexpected draft picks that turned out to be worth a toot. Some will dismiss that as pessimism, but I say it's an honest assessment. 41-55 over the six seasons speaks for itself.

Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ
 

The past two seasons it's tough to argue with Cooley's production, and based on his production I don't see how you can't put him in the tier of TEs in this league.

Re: Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ
 

I think most people like to blame Vinny instead of Gibbs because that is sac religious. I think Gibbs needs quite a bit of blame that people dont want to give.