50 to 48 = 2 missing
 

In the Senate's vote today to take up a National issue of "should there be a vote about Gay marriages" of the 100 Senators 98 felt their job was so important to this Country that they showed up and put their vote where there Mouth is.

Only two did not think our Nation was important enough to do their jobs and vote.

Wanna guess who skipped out on their job? Yep, you guessed it Kerry and Edwards.

~shakes head.

Kerry has missed close to 2/3 of all voting this session.

You want to give a more important job to a guy that only shows up 1/3 of the time? Ha!

Not me.

Kerry and Hollywood Actors have more in common then he to regular middle class people and their values.

You'll pry my cold dead hand off my Bible before I allow a word created and defined by GOD in my Bible as 1 Man to 1 Woman to be changed. Call it what you want and give people whatever rights but don't change a definition set by God. Under who's authority does this government elected officials have to change a word defined over 4000 years ago and recognized as a world standard ever since?

That's MY opinion.

peace
mike
<><

The fact that a clown like Kerry could even be considered for president, just show's how low we have sunk as a nation. :eek:

[QUOTE=offiss]The fact that a clown like Kerry could even be considered for president, just show's how low we have sunk as a nation. :eek:[/QUOTE]


That's exactly the case I will make against Bush. How low can one go then Bush?

[QUOTE=Sammy Baugh Fan]In the Senate's vote today to take up a National issue of "should there be a vote about Gay marriages" of the 100 Senators 98 felt their job was so important to this Country that they showed up and put their vote where there Mouth is.

Only two did not think our Nation was important enough to do their jobs and vote.

Wanna guess who skipped out on their job? Yep, you guessed it Kerry and Edwards.

~shakes head.

Kerry has missed close to 2/3 of all voting this session.

You want to give a more important job to a guy that only shows up 1/3 of the time? Ha!

Not me.

Kerry and Hollywood Actors have more in common then he to regular middle class people and their values.

You'll pry my cold dead hand off my Bible before I allow a word created and defined by GOD in my Bible as 1 Man to 1 Woman to be changed. Call it what you want and give people whatever rights but don't change a definition set by God. Under who's authority does this government elected officials have to change a word defined over 4000 years ago and recognized as a world standard ever since?

That's MY opinion.

peace
mike
<><[/QUOTE]

You argue that our goverment should not change a 4000 year old definition, yet I am betting that you will also say that our Freedoms as Americans should not be infringed.

On July 4, 1776, our for-fathers of this great nation all agreed that as Americans we have certain rights that our Creator has endowed us with they are Life, Liberty, and THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS!!!

Under who's authority do we have to end this PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS? If 1 man wants to marry another man or 1 woman wants to marry another woman, who are we to step in front of there pursuit of happiness?

I think that your argument would hold more water if the times of the day were where everyone still got married in churches and not so much by the JP, but lets face it times have changed.

[QUOTE=Portis]That's exactly the case I will make against Bush. How low can one go then Bush?[/QUOTE]

I knew that quote was coming, but I was hoping it wouldn't be the next post. :laughing-

Without taking any side, let me play devil's advocate and toss out this question. What has Kerry said or done that makes it clear that we would be better off with him in office?

Because I hear a lot of "Anybody But Bush", but I don't often hear why "anybody" would be the definitive better choice

1: Believe it or not Kerry and Edwards are a little busy right now. Secondly you act as if it's rare for senators to be absent from voting. They are absent quite often, especially on issues they don't want to touch. Such as the one at hand. Personally, I have absolutely no problem. Name one problem gay marriage will cause you. The answer is it won't affect you at all, you just enjoy being homophobic and don't want them to have any of the rights us "normal" people have.

Secondly, the church gave up the whole idea of marriage when you have to get a license through the government to be recognized. This opened it up for the government to interpret and they have to be fair to all people. Gay marriage will not hurt anything except the far right's ego.

SmootSmack: He said it's time to get our troops out of Iraq, and hell, he may not have an exact plan yet, but it's better than asking for millions of dollars. I'm sick of turning on the news and hearing about more 20 year old's dieing.

[QUOTE=Daseal]1: Believe it or not Kerry and Edwards are a little busy right now. Secondly you act as if it's rare for senators to be absent from voting. They are absent quite often, especially on issues they don't want to touch. Such as the one at hand. Personally, I have absolutely no problem. Name one problem gay marriage will cause you. The answer is it won't affect you at all, you just enjoy being homophobic and don't want them to have any of the rights us "normal" people have.[/QUOTE]

There are a number of forums that specialize in such discussions, and though I have no intention of quashing this debate here, I hope you all remember that this is a Redskins fan forum first.

There are many people who, out of ignorance or fear, want to ban gay marriage. There are many more who feel that such an institution would diminish marriage and society. For anyone to say that opponents of gay marriage are homophobes, would be like saying that everyone voting for Bush hates civil rights, or everyone voting for Kerry hates America, or everyone against abortion hates women, or everyone for abortion hates babies, or (shudder) everyone who respects Bill Parcells hates the Redskins. All of those statements oversimplify the debate, and diminish both parties to it.

Daseal, I'm not singling you out - people on both sides of this thorny issue make the same mistake. I just hope we can keep things civil here.

i agree with that smoot, its turning out like a hillary election, for or against her, regardless of who else is running.

btw, the original writings of the bible and the king james version most people use today are very different. old james threw out quite a bit of material that he personally didnt agree with. also in the same book mentioning that gay = bad, it states that marrying a divorced woman is a sin, yet that's very common today.

didn't the bible also state that putting interest on loans is a big no-no... and the entire world economy is based on annuities and interest.

societal values change, when the bible was written, populations were smaller and things such as modern large scale economies weren't quite in place yet. Also, multiple writers and many many years to alter/exagerate/edit means that it has been changed a lot already, so its not like you're reading the first edition.

My opinion is more libertarian, in that it doesn't bother me, and i really don't think its a big deal... i'm always against forcing my opinions upon others, and wary of people who attempt to do so...

kerry and edwards probably missed this one on purpose though, cause it is hot button, and rule #1 of running for office is don't give people a reason to hate you... gay marriage is not the focal point of their campaign (not sure what is though ;)) but getting mired in this mess is unlikely to help them get votes...

on the other hand, maybe kerry's just not done waffling on it yet :D (ducks)

[QUOTE=Daseal]They are absent quite often, especially on issues they don't want to touch. Such as the one at hand. [/QUOTE]

I think that's the point he was trying to make.

[QUOTE=Daseal]
Personally, I have absolutely no problem. Name one problem gay marriage will cause you. The answer is it won't affect you at all, you just enjoy being homophobic and don't want them to have any of the rights us "normal" people have.[/QUOTE]

It used to be that the gays 'just wanted to be left alone' - and that's all they wanted. Society gave that to them. Now it's not good enough and they're asking for marital rights. Where does the line get drawn? Who's to say that bigomy is wrong, or incest, or beastiality, or ... ?

My beef is that a line needs to be drawn somewhere. Is it at gay marriage? I'd venture to say that >3/4 of America would say so.

Daseal, I should have been more clear than "what did he say", I should have asked how has Kerry said he'll be the better choice? I mean anyone can say we need to remove the troops. But how will he effectively do that?....Besides I thought he said he would add troops now that we're there anyway

For the Redskins angle: If Kerry wins the election I'm picking former Redskins coach George Allen's son, George Allen II (or is it Junior?) as a darkhorse GOP candidate in 2008. You heard it here first!!!....

Yeah, I think George Allen would be a great candidate. He's just biding his time, I think.

i helped his campaign for senate (as a grunt worker) as a req for my civics class in HS... he's a nice guy, but i would never touch campaign work for anyone again, its definately not my thing.

and daseal, you remind me of a story about how all the animals on a farm are equal, except the pigs, which are more equal than anyone else...

slippery slope arguements don't always hold up that well, and i don't agree with that statement that gay == beastiality, or that granting gay marriage would in any way assume that bestiality will follow.

I didn't say that gay == beastiality. I was saying that in the name of rights, people will continually and gradually request more and more 'freedoms' that fly in the face of what has traditionally been determined uncouth. I understand that in certain situations, a slippery slope argument does not hold up well, but when talking about the progression of US culture and society, it more often than not will hold up.

(You must be a programmer - you used '==' instead of just '=' :D)

I love the argument that if gay marriage is allowed then before we know it people will be marrying barn yard animals or their sisters. Ridiculous.

Comparing gay marriage to beastiality and incest is apples and oranges and quite frankly is pretty insulting to gay people.

Gay people just want the same rights everyone else has, why is that too much to ask?

I'm saying that because of the gays, the people who engage in those other acts will want their actions to be taken seriously if the gay lifestyle is promoted within legislation.

I'm saying that a line has to be drawn.

yeah you caught me cpayne... if i used =, then i'd be assigning beastality to gay, and i'm not sure that that's kosher...

this is about equal rights, not barnyard sex acts... people won't want to marry the sheep after all... at least, not most i'd hope.

oh yeah, bigomy is tolerated in some places in our country, that line has been crossed (since the founding)... among farming families it wasn't unheard of (when the husband dies in an accident etc), but its legal in salt lake today. The slope's done slipped already.

A line has already been drawn, incest and beastiality are unaccepted and illegal lifestyles in society unlike homosexuality.

It's not an excuse that holds much water.

The gay lifestyle is also unaccepted by a large majority of Americans. By allowing it through legislation, you give these other unaccepted lifestyles a precedent to stand on.

***Smootsmack sits at his desk, struggling to find a way to link this topic back to the Redskins***

man people (maybe even a majority) think bigomy is unacceptable, yet its still legal ;) not that i'm a fan.

If two people consent to spend their lives together, thats there right to do so. Its not my right to force my will upon them, though others will - i'm sure - disagree.

maybe you don't have any friends that are gay, but they are perfectly normal is every other sense (those that i know), and its not their fault that they aren't attracted to whoever you would like them to be.

that's like saying people with brown hair can't own houses...

if you want to use the bible defense, realize we already forsake a lot of the other rules from the same book, and that it has changed over time.

if you want to draw a line, bigomy is legal, and being gay is a lot different than screwing a dog or commiting sodomy.

you have the right to your opinion no matter what, but I really haven't heard a convincing arguement against it of yet (from anyone), other than its a deep founded belief that either is not worth the time to re-evalute, or so strongly ingrained, that its unbelievable anyone would disagree.

I wouldn't say a gay lifestyle is unaccepted by a large majority. Back in the day yes, but times have definitely changed. Just look at TV shows, there are gay characters everywhere.

I look at it as to each his own. Who am I to tell someone they can't get married, it's really none of anyone's business. There are much more serious issues we should be focusing on instead of being preoccupied on what other people do in the bedroom.

Those who beleive that gay marriage will ultimatly lead to beastiality, please show the link. You might say that, "gay lifestyle is unaccepted by a large majority, and if that is passed then so will beastiality, which is also unaccepted by a large majority."

If one remembers correctly in America at 1 time it was unaccepted by a large majority to be of a different color. In fact in some places in this great land if you were not the right color you could end up spending the night in the hospital or worse dead.

Today you hear the same of people being put into hospitals and being killed just because they liked the same sex, and someone else did not like that.

Some might say you can not link race to sex. I ask you, why? Do people honestly believe that gay people have a choice to be gay or straight? Do people think that they wake up and decide to be gay? Let me guess some might say it was the way they were raised. I still have a hard time believing that people have a choice in there sexuality, you are what you are.

[QUOTE=Sammy Baugh Fan]Only two did not think our Nation was important enough to do their jobs and vote.

You want to give a more important job to a guy that only shows up 1/3 of the time? Ha!
[/QUOTE]

well we better start impeaching the president then. he's out CAMPAIGNING instead of doing HIS JOB too. :stop:

I didn't mean to come off as saying all people that are against gay marriage are homophobes, but it certainly sounded like SBF was indicating that he's not much for gays. I have three gay friends, and if you saw them in a crowd you wouldn't notice at all. It's not like they're different from us at all, we go to the same parties, same everything (except bed.) If they want to marry why not? I challenged someone to come with one viable reason why gay marriage should be outlawed, and haven't gotten one.

Consenting adults are quite different than animals who have no say.

No offense Brud, but this is the off topic forum. Meaning not about football.

Hey Daseal.
I will stand up and say what I feel right here and now in clear words.
God says that homosexual sex in an abomination to Him as God.
I as a believer in God feel the same way.
Homosexual sex is a Sin.
I hate the Sin but still love the Sinner.

I know Gay people I "like" too. Does that mean I condone their life? No. I know all kinds of people that I don't agree with.

Gay sex is a sin and should not be allowed to change the word Marriage's definition.
I believe that with all my heart.

You can have your opinion as well.

peace
mike

Because I hear a lot of "Anybody But Bush", but I don't often hear why "anybody" would be the definitive better choice[/QUOTE]

I just thought it should be heard again!! :httr:

[QUOTE=Daseal]I didn't mean to come off as saying all people that are against gay marriage are homophobes, but it certainly sounded like SBF was indicating that he's not much for gays. I have three gay friends, and if you saw them in a crowd you wouldn't notice at all. It's not like they're different from us at all, we go to the same parties, same everything (except bed.) If they want to marry why not? I challenged someone to come with one viable reason why gay marriage should be outlawed, and haven't gotten one.

Consenting adults are quite different than animals who have no say.

No offense Brud, but this is the off topic forum. Meaning not about football.[/QUOTE]

A agree!! I have freinds that are gay and I don't have a problem with what they want to do behind closed doors!! As long as they don't try to through it in my face why should I care?? They should have the same rights as any American! :biggthump

[QUOTE=Riggo44]Because I hear a lot of "Anybody But Bush", but I don't often hear why "anybody" would be the definitive better choice[/QUOTE]
I just thought it should be heard again!! :httr:[/QUOTE]
Anybody is the better choice because Bush is that bad in a lot of people's eyes.

I agree that God does say that Homosexual sex is a sin, but that is something that they will have to deal with on Judgement day.

As far as sins go what about "You shall not commit adultery." People in this country do that just about every day, and yet this sin undermines the traditional definiton of marriage. This sin is what causes many to become divorced. Yet our goverment has no laws regulating adultery.

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Anybody is the better choice because Bush is that bad in a lot of people's eyes.[/QUOTE]

doesn't bush win almost every popularity poll any media source puts out as to whether or not people would reelect bush or vote in a new president?


as for the gay marriage thing, I say too each their own. I'm fine with gay people as long as they don't try to hit on me or anyone in my group of family or friends. some of them r really kewl people, but personally I don't condone what they do but it's not my place to do so. The main problem I have with granting gay couples legal marriages is that it would allow more of them to more easily adopt children. I'm all for more children being adopted but that's not a fair position to be placing a child in my opinion. Some gay couples may turn out to be wonderful parents but thats just not fair to put the children, who have no choice in the matter, through the ridicule, and possible physical threats, because their parents aren't what the majority of society view as ethical or moral.

[QUOTE=Redskins8588]I agree that God does say that Homosexual sex is a sin, but that is something that they will have to deal with on Judgement day.

As far as sins go what about "You shall not commit adultery." People in this country do that just about every day, and yet this sin undermines the traditional definiton of marriage. This sin is what causes many to become divorced. Yet our goverment has no laws regulating adultery.[/QUOTE]

Your correct on that one, divorce, adultery, are all sin's, which are really not looked at other than normal in today's society, the ascending of the gay lifestyle, and it's acceptence, show's how far as a people we have departed from God, and just another sign that we are at the very end, but everyone will have to answer to god for themselves, for all sin's, not just homosexuality.



QUOTE]Name one problem gay marriage will cause you. The answer is it won't affect you at all[/QUOTE]


How about benefit's, and health care provision's in the work place? Especially now that gay's will be recognized as a family

you have as much right to be religious and quote the bible as folks have the right to love whoever they wish in spite of it. Church and State people, America is great because there is a distinction. if you don't want a distinction and want to run the country based on one Holy Book, then you may want to check the parallels between you and the Taliban. :twocents:

[QUOTE] How about benefit's, and health care provision's in the work place? Especially now that gay's will be recognized as a family[/QUOTE]
and its more fair that that they pay taxes to support your health care, but not their own?

unless you mean the health care the business provides, in which case it doesn't affect you.

You think gay marriage will make a mockery of the institution of marriage? Take a look at the nearly 50% divorce rate then tell me that.

[QUOTE=offiss]The fact that a clown like Kerry could even be considered for president, just show's how low we have sunk as a nation. :eek:[/QUOTE]


If Kerry is clown.......then what is Bush considered? A genius? Come on now.....

First of all how many of us could miss 6 months plus and not get docked a penny. If Kerry and Edwards are not going to do their job in the senate (or anyone else) then they need to find someone who can. They are paid to do a job so they should do it. I dont think Bush is missing much while campaigning. Not a slap in the face saying he does not do anything, but I believe he can do some of his work on the road.

As far a gay marriage man I really dont care. Part says no but most of me says why not. As far a adopting kids and sending the wrong message I dont think so. I dont think they are going to raise them to be gay. They cant do any worse than some people such as drug addicts or alcohloics. How often do they get their kids taken away. Not often enough. Kids need to be in a happy and loving home. If it is with gay parents then great. I would much rather live with gay parents then being beaten, neglected or whatever. I am always getting stuff from church groups saying to protect the marriage between a man and a women. In which I delete of course. It is too bad that they cant stop most marriages in which will not work between a man and a women in where they have kids and they kids are put in the middle of the divorce.