Are the Redskins Below Average?
 

I really don't like today's article, in Redskins Insider. [url=http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider]Redskins Insider[/url]

I think he is way off base. I think that the only place our talent is possibly sub-par is on our Dline. The offensive line is getting old , but they can play. Our skill players, on offense, are well above average. Linebackers are solid, even if McIntosh turns out to be a bust. They will just play Marshall. Campbell is in his third year and from what I hear is the hardest working Quarterback in the NFL. With a near full draft next year, they are well on their way to a championship.

Re: Are the Redskins Below Average?
 

We'll find out in September. Until then that article is just one person's opinion.

Re: Are the Redskins Below Average?
 

Offensive Talent: Good.
Defensive Talent: Average to below average.
Results: Very below average.

Re: Are the Redskins Below Average?
 

thats why the play the games. who gives a rats ass what anyone thinks?

Re: Are the Redskins Below Average?
 

[quote=Southpaw;311301]Offensive Talent: [B]Good.[/B]
Defensive Talent: Average to below average.
Results: Very below average.[/quote]
its hard to believe the skins were in the bottom half of the league in points scored. why would you say that is good? without making all the usual excuses, adjusting to Saunders new offense, Brunell, etc.

Re: Are the Redskins Below Average?
 

Until we prove that we can win on a consistent basis, then we'll keep seeing more articles like this.

Re: Are the Redskins Below Average?
 

[quote=skinsguy;311306]Until we prove that we can win on a consistent basis, then we'll keep seeing more articles like this.[/quote]

I was going to say the same thing. Until we make the playoffs again, we're not going to be considered "good" or above average.

We're not good yet, but I think we CAN be.

Re: Are the Redskins Below Average?
 

[quote=dmek25;311304]its hard to believe the skins were in the bottom half of the league in points scored. why would you say that is good? without making all the usual excuses, adjusting to Saunders new offense, Brunell, etc.[/quote]

I was strictly refering to talent and not performance. On paper, Washington has a Pro Bowl WR, RB, and multiple lineman. The talent level looks great on paper. It just hasn't come together yet in terms of production. Campbell is the wild card. He might be the one to bring it all together.

Re: Are the Redskins Below Average?
 

[quote=T.O.Killa;311297]I really don't like today's article, in Redskins Insider. [URL="http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider"]Redskins Insider[/URL]

I think he is way off base. I think that the only place our talent is possibly sub-par is on our Dline. The offensive line is getting old , but they can play. Our skill players, on offense, are well above average. Linebackers are solid, even if McIntosh turns out to be a bust. They will just play Marshall. Campbell is in his third year and from what I hear is the hardest working Quarterback in the NFL. With a near full draft next year, they are well on their way to a championship.[/quote]

The line in the article that is off base is the one about Griffin being the only starter on D who could start for another team is a bit incredible, even though he seems to back off the point later. I think the only players on our projected starting D this year who would be in obvious danger of not starting for any other team are Wynn, Golston, Salavea, and Daniels. Rocky is a question mark. Virtually every team in the league would love to have Taylor and Landry and quite a few would pay real bucks for Fletcher or Marshall, even Rogers. Even Springs could find a home, at least until the first serious injury.

Re: Are the Redskins Below Average?
 

Here's the thing. There is one variable that determines whether you are a good team, Quarterback play. If Campbell improves significantly, then we will be good or possibly very good. Given Campbell's athleticism, improvement towards the end of the year and his work ethic, I expect him to be an above average QB this year.

A couple of problems that I have with the guest blog. He says that we are an "old injury prone team". Taylor, Moss, Rogers, Lloyd, Campbell, Landry, Portis, Cooley, Golston, & Rocky, almost everyone of those guys will be an opening day starter and all of them are young. I also would not be suprised at all if both of the linebackers that were drafted late end up as contributors and starters down the line. I understand tempering your optimism but you have to consider the facts as well.

Re: Are the Redskins Below Average?
 

[QUOTE=skinsguy;311306]Until we prove that we can win on a consistent basis, then we'll keep seeing more articles like this.[/QUOTE]


I agree.....and that's why I pay very little or no attention to them because people are entitled to their opinions. When it comes to competitive sports, everyone loves a winner.

Re: Are the Redskins Below Average?
 

Griffen is the only D-lineman on the Skins who might start for another team in the league. I doubt any of the others on the roster would...

Re: Are the Redskins Below Average?
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;311320]Griffen is the only D-lineman on the Skins who might start for another team in the league. I doubt any of the others on the roster would...[/quote]
I cant believe that people are saying this. Carter had 6 sacks and did not start playing till the end of the year. Yeah, we need another end. Golston and Montgomery could turn out to be solid starters.

Re: Are the Redskins Below Average?
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;311320]Griffen is the only D-lineman on the Skins who might start for another team in the league. I doubt any of the others on the roster would...[/quote]

Griffin [I]would[/I] start for most teams in this league, Carter would probably also start for most.

Re: Are the Redskins Below Average?
 

I agree with this article for the most part. Although he did mention "Raymer" as one of our O-lineman. Rabach maybe? This guy couldn't proofread his own article before posting it in the Washington Post?? Wow. He also said Portis is still young and his best years are in front of him. While he is still young, I definitely don't think his best years are in front of him. He is turning into an injury prone guy.

But unfortunately this dude is right, IMO, about the rest of the team. Unproven QB, and a lot of old dudes, etc. It's much more of a young man's league than it was 15-20 years ago. Coach Joe didn't get that memo.

Re: Are the Redskins Below Average?
 

[quote=T.O.Killa;311297]I really don't like today's article, in Redskins Insider. [URL="http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider"]Redskins Insider[/URL]

I think he is way off base. I think that the only place our talent is possibly sub-par is on our Dline. The offensive line is getting old , but they can play. Our skill players, on offense, are well above average. Linebackers are solid, even if McIntosh turns out to be a bust. They will just play Marshall. Campbell is in his third year and from what I hear is the hardest working Quarterback in the NFL. With a near full draft next year, they are well on their way to a championship.[/quote]


What gives anyone the reason to believe we are anything more than mediocore? Out of 10 years we have had two winning seasons. other than a year or two of 8-8, we have had losing seasons. I dont care what kind of talent we have on PAPER, until we win games, and the talent lives up to the hype this is who we are. We have done absolutely nothing to discount those opinions. They are actually more fact than opinion. I am sick of hearing how people on here say they are bashing the skins. what makes you think we deserve anything other than bashing or expers questioning our team? We have stunk for all most 10 years. there are only 3 franchises since 2000 that have lost more games than us.

Hopefully this year will be different. The only way to stop the negativety towards our skins is to WIN, something we have not done in LONG time. and I mean win year in and year out, not one year out of 5.

Re: Are the Redskins Below Average?
 

[QUOTE=sportscurmudgeon;311320]Griffen is the only D-lineman on the Skins who might start for another team in the league. I doubt any of the others on the roster would...[/QUOTE]

Well, well, well...look who decides to show up after several weeks away. And does he say "thank you" for this?

[url]http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-warpath-parking-lot/17765-can-you-make-sportscurmudgeon-smile-today.html[/url]

No! <<smootmsmack runs crying to his room>>

We have a lot of doubters to prove wrong this season. I think we're up to the task

Re: Are the Redskins Below Average?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;311330]Well, well, well...look who decides to show up after several weeks away. And does he say "thank you" for this?

[URL]http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-warpath-parking-lot/17765-can-you-make-sportscurmudgeon-smile-today.html[/URL]

No! <<smootmsmack runs crying to his room>>

We have a lot of doubters to prove wrong this season. I think we're up to the task[/quote]

LOL!!! Welcome back SC. Hope you're smiling and congrats on the blog...

Re: Are the Redskins Below Average?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;311330]Well, well, well...look who decides to show up after several weeks away. And does he say "thank you" for this?

[URL]http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-warpath-parking-lot/17765-can-you-make-sportscurmudgeon-smile-today.html[/URL]

No! <<smootmsmack runs crying to his room>>

We have a lot of doubters to prove wrong this season. I think we're up to the task[/quote]


Same thing happened in '05. I am glad.

Re: Are the Redskins Below Average?
 

Everyone keeps saying lets get this lets get that guy, most are not better than Carter last year. Alex Brown, that everyone keeps asking for, had only 7 sacks. Carter is also not undersized. DE on the weak side are smaller fast rushers. The Redskins only forced 19 sacks, which I am sure made it even harder for Carter to get to the QB. The problem we had was that Holdman sucked. If we had Lavar last year our run defense would have been much better.

Re: Are the Redskins Below Average?
 

[quote=T.O.Killa;311334]Everyone keeps saying lets get this lets get that guy, most are not better than carter last year. Alex Brown, that everyone keeps asking for had only 7 sacks. Carter is also not undersized. DE on the weak side are smaller fast rushers. The Redskins only forced 19 sacks, which I am sure made it even harder for Carter to get to the QB. The problem we had was that Holdman sucked. If we had Lavar last year our run defense would have been much better.[/quote]


YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: Are the Redskins Below Average?
 

Yeah, lot of good Lavar would have done us while sitting on the bench with a torn achilles.

Re: Are the Redskins Below Average?
 

[QUOTE=T.O.Killa;311334]Everyone keeps saying lets get this lets get that guy, most are not better than Carter last year. Alex Brown, that everyone keeps asking for, had only 7 sacks. Carter is also not undersized. DE on the weak side are smaller fast rushers. The Redskins only forced 19 sacks, which I am sure made it even harder for Carter to get to the QB. The problem we had was that Holdman sucked. If we had Lavar last year our run defense would have been much better.[/QUOTE]

How would have Lavar helped us? He would've been on injured reserve for the whole season.

Re: Are the Redskins Below Average?
 

[quote=Schneed10;311340]Yeah, lot of good Lavar would have done us while sitting on the bench with a torn achilles.[/quote]


I dont think LaVar would have made a bit of difference on our team last year. One LB spot was a really small portion of our problem.

Re: Are the Redskins Below Average?
 

[QUOTE]Other than Clinton Portis, Santana Moss, Chris Samuels, Chris Cooley, Sean Taylor, and maybe Marcus Washington there isn't a single player on the Redskins team that would take over at least 10 players at that position. [/QUOTE]

This is a dumb assertion because the top 10 is not even half. Try the top 16.:

QB-Campbell: no
HB-Portis: yes
FB-Sellers: yes (name me 16 better fullbacks)
WR1-Moss: yes
WR2-?: no
TE-Cooley: yes
LT-Samuels- yes
LG-?: no
C-Rabach: no
RG-Thomas: yes
RT-Jansen: not sure...we'll say no

CB1-Springs: yes(name me 16 better CBs)
CB2-Rogers: no
S-Taylor: yes
S-Landry: no(???)
RE-Carter: no
DT-Golston: no
DT-Griffin: yes(name me 16 better DTs when healthy)
LE-Daniels: no
OLB-Washington: yes
MLB-Fletcher: yes
OLB-McCintosh: no

By my count that is 11. Now some of them are obvious and some aren't(Griffin,Spirngs, Sellers) but on talent alone they are certainly better than half of the comparables. The question is health.

As to talent anyways...we didn't have much "talent" when our defense was ranked 3rd so maybe "talent" doesn't mean quite as much as he thinks.

He has some solid stuff but I think he is a little too negative for my liking.

Re: Are the Redskins Below Average?
 

[QUOTE=FRPLG;311357]This is a dumb assertion because the top 10 is not even half. Try the top 16.:

QB-Campbell: no
HB-Portis: yes
FB-Sellers: yes (name me 16 better fullbacks)
WR1-Moss: yes
WR2-?: no
TE-Cooley: yes
LT-Samuels- yes
LG-?: no
C-Rabach: no
RG-Thomas: yes
RT-Jansen: not sure...we'll say no

CB1-Springs: yes(name me 16 better CBs)
CB2-Rogers: no
S-Taylor: yes
S-Landry: no(???)
RE-Carter: no
DT-Golston: no
DT-Griffin: yes(name me 16 better DTs when healthy)
LE-Daniels: no
OLB-Washington: yes
MLB-Fletcher: yes
OLB-McCintosh: no

By my count that is 11. Now some of them are obvious and some aren't(Griffin,Spirngs, Sellers) but on talent alone they are certainly better than half of the comparables. The question is health.

As to talent anyways...we didn't have much "talent" when our defense was ranked 3rd so maybe "talent" doesn't mean quite as much as he thinks.

He has some solid stuff but I think he is a little too negative for my liking.[/QUOTE]

But even top 16 wouldn't be half in many cases. Take CB for example. Each team starts 2, so half would be 32 (not 16)

Re: Are the Redskins Below Average?
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;311358]But even top 16 wouldn't be half in many cases. Take CB for example. Each team starts 2, so half would be 32 (not 16)[/QUOTE]

good point.

Springs and Griffin are undeniably in the top 32 at their positions.

Plus what it comes down to, like Grills showed in 04 and 05 is using the talent you have properly. If you tookmthe best at every position in the league and put them on the field using a bad scheme they'd get beat. Scheme and gameplan is as important as talent in today's NFL.

Look at it this way. Talent is the tool and scheme is the handyman. Just because the handyman has the right tool doesn't mean he knows how to use it effectively. What remains to be seen is whether Grills can use the talent we have better than he did last year.

Re: Are the Redskins Below Average?
 

[quote=skinsguy;311306]Until we prove that we can win on a consistent basis, then we'll keep seeing more articles like this.[/quote]

My point exactly!

Re: Are the Redskins Below Average?
 

Simple.....NO. We are way above average, just wait and see!

Re: Are the Redskins Below Average?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;311299]We'll find out in September. Until then that article is just one person's opinion.[/quote]

yeah ur right

Re: Are the Redskins Below Average?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;311358]But even top 16 wouldn't be half in many cases. Take CB for example. Each team starts 2, so half would be 32 (not 16)[/quote]

He has CB1 and CB2.

That list shows us to have top half talent at half the positions on the team. Which sounds pretty average. With 6 of those ten in the top ten, which seems like a decent sign to me, I guess.

But let's not forget:

K: Suisham- no
P: Frost- no (?)
WR3 harder to tell
WR4 no
KR: yes
PR: yes

Our depth is where we start to lose serious ground IMO. Where other teams insert third and fourth rounders when starters go down, we turn to Holdmans, Poseys, Foxes, Rumphs, (that is to say retreads,) and undrafted rookie types. Depth issues hurt you on special teams and filling in for injured starters. At least this has been a major knock on us, perceived or otherwise.

We seem capable of fielding a competitive starting outfit year in year out, we just can't handle injuries at all. The Eagles and Pats stick out in my mind as teams that are extremely well prepared to deal with injuries. Most teams can't win if they lose more than a starter or two, but the good ones can.

The other big knocks on us over the last decade and a half have been continuity, leadership and QB play, with QB play being the biggest factor IMO. Hell, if we had gotten a franchise type QB after JG I, Norv Turner would probably be the longest tenured, highest paid head coach in the league right now.

Fortunately, we have continuity and leadership now. So the good news is that it is all going to come down to talent, execution, injuries, luck and Jason Campbell. Now, anyone want to predict what going to happen next year?

Re: Are the Redskins Below Average?
 

I don't care how our talent looks on paper, you do not win games on rated talent on paper.
Only two things matter:
1) W-L record
2) Winning the Super Bowl
The rest is for Madden Gamers and Fantasy football enthusiasts.

Re: Are the Redskins Below Average?
 

[quote=Southpaw;311301]Offensive Talent: Good.
Defensive Talent: Average to below average.
Results: Very below average.[/quote]

talent on offense= good???? when is the last time our offense won a game for us????

talent on defense= average or below average????? i think up until last year that carried our team for two seasons prior. take away injuries last year and i dont think we would have been all that bad. but talent wise you have pro bowlers at fs, potentially ss(landry), cb(springs), lb(marcus washington and fletcher), dl (griffen has never gotten the credit he deserved).....so i think we are better than average of below, hell jacksonville man for man doesnt match up with us on defense, and they were top 5 last year....i would take our secondary and healthy linebackers over theres any day of the week. thier dline is great and trounces ours but as talent whole we are the more talented group.......dont forget we were 3rd and 9th two years prior to last season.

Re: Are the Redskins Below Average?
 

[quote=holcknowsbest;311457]talent on offense= good???? when is the last time our offense won a game for us????

talent on defense= average or below average????? i think up until last year that carried our team for two seasons prior. take away injuries last year and i dont think we would have been all that bad. but talent wise you have pro bowlers at fs, potentially ss(landry), cb(springs), lb(marcus washington and fletcher), dl (griffen has never gotten the credit he deserved).....so i think we are better than average of below, hell jacksonville man for man doesnt match up with us on defense, and they were top 5 last year....i would take our secondary and healthy linebackers over theres any day of the week. thier dline is great and trounces ours but as talent whole we are the more talented group.......dont forget we were 3rd and 9th two years prior to last season.[/quote]


the jaguars game was won by offense and the texans somewhat

Re: Are the Redskins Below Average?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;311325]Griffin [I]would[/I] start for most teams in this league, Carter would probably also start for most.[/quote]

I don't think Andre Carter would start for very many teams. He is not a full time 4-3 DE. While he may have gotten a little pass rush pressure, he sure stinks against the run.

Re: Are the Redskins Below Average?
 

I think Griff has really regressed. He needs to stay healthy and get back to his play of 04. But he is getting older so it's probably not going to happen. We need some youth and a talent upgrade on the Dline. I sure hope Goldston and Montgomery are ready.

Re: Are the Redskins Below Average?
 

Here's how I would break it down.
O line Above average
Recievers/TE Average
RB Above average
QB Below average
DLine Below average
LB Average
DB Above average

You see there a two crucial positions where we are below average, QB and Dline. Thats the problem with the skins and why i see us winning 8 games this year.

Re: Are the Redskins Below Average?
 

our oline and dline are getting old. QB is still up in the air on how good he will be. Anything better than Brunell. Good rb's, just one good WR. Good TE. Dline stinks and LB's are good> Above average secondary. Would be better if we had a damn pass rush. Kicking game is average at best. And im being kind. Lucky to be 8-8 most likey 6-10 or 7-9.

Re: Are the Redskins Below Average?
 

[QUOTE=TenandSix:Unacceptable;311396]He has CB1 and CB2.[/QUOTE]

Good catch. As for the other question of how many times our offense has won games for us. Didn't we have a couple of games last year (Rams and Giants I think) where we put up over 30 points but still lost? I mean what more can the offense do there

Re: Are the Redskins Below Average?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;311499]I don't think Andre Carter would start for very many teams. He is not a full time 4-3 DE. While he may have gotten a little pass rush pressure, he sure stinks against the run.[/quote]

Why is he not a full time DE?