Belichick...Best of All Time????
 

After reading the ESPN article, I wanted to ask a larger question...is Belichick the best of all time????

Re: Belichick...Best of All Time????
 

Quite simply, no.

Next topic.

Re: Belichick...Best of All Time????
 

[quote=Mattyk72;314513]Quite simply, no.

Next topic.[/quote]
Matty, he has to be top 5 (I did not read the article)... figure what did parcells do with him as the coordinator, and what did parcells do without him????

I would say lombardi, noll, landry, belichick & walsh in no particular order (gibbs would be 6 and I know I will get slammed for that on this site)

Re: Belichick...Best of All Time????
 

Top 5 maybe, but best of all time?

Not even close.

Re: Belichick...Best of All Time????
 

[quote=Mattyk72;314518]Top 5 maybe, but best of all time?

Not even close.[/quote]


no where near it

Re: Belichick...Best of All Time????
 

[quote=Mattyk72;314518]Top 5 maybe, but best of all time?

Not even close.[/quote]
So, give us your top 5... and top all time

Re: Belichick...Best of All Time????
 

In no particular order:

Lombardi
Shula
Landry
Gibbs
Noll

Re: Belichick...Best of All Time????
 

And you could make a case for these guys also being top 5:

Halas
Brown
Parcells

So I'd actually out Belichick closer to 10 than 5.

Re: Belichick...Best of All Time????
 

[quote=Mattyk72;314524]In no particular order:

Lombardi
Shula
Landry
Gibbs
Noll[/quote]

solid top five. I probably would switch Gibbs and Landry though.

Re: Belichick...Best of All Time????
 

HELL FUCK ASS NO HE ISN'T !!!!

Don't get me wrong but he was a really good DC and then was a joke with the whole being the Jets coach for a hot min only to go to New England. Remember they were going to run him out of New England before the luckiest of luckiest things happened to him. Drew Bledsoe got hurt. If that doesn't happen then we don't see Tom Brady who then makes him out to be the greatest coach to ever wear a friggin cut off sweatshirt. Would I accept him as the Skins HC, OH HELL YES I WOULD. Best ever, pish posh the problem is that some people actually feel that way. Maybe not a problem because everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I mean if someone can wake up in the morning, look themselves in the mirror and actually admit to themselves that they are a Cowboys fan then I guess anything is possible.

Re: Belichick...Best of All Time????
 

[quote=Mattyk72;314524]In no particular order:

Lombardi
Shula
Landry
Gibbs
Noll[/quote]
Actually, I will give you Shula and Walsh being a tie...(I am senile in my old age and forgot about him)....
We are not far off... I have Gibbs as 6 (I would have had him in top 5 before he came back)

Re: Belichick...Best of All Time????
 

[quote=Mattyk72;314524]In no particular order:

Lombardi
Shula
Landry
Gibbs
Noll[/quote]

You don't consider Bill Walsh one of the top five?

Re: Belichick...Best of All Time????
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;314524]In no particular order:

Lombardi
Shula
Landry
Gibbs
Noll[/QUOTE]

I think Redskin Rich has the more realistic top 5. I just dont see how Shula could be ahead of Walsh.

I also think that while Lombardi was great he was coaching what IMO is a completely different game. I think one needs 2 lists, pre & post 1970.

Re: Belichick...Best of All Time????
 

But if you're going to knock Belichik down a peg for his horrible stint with the Browns, then don't you have to knock Gibbs down a peg for his 21-27 record with the 'Skins in his recent tenure? I can't do that though, you accomplished what you accomplished, a sub-par stint in another time or place doesn't change that.

1) Lombardi
2) Schula
3) Gibbs
4) Landry
5) Noll
6) Walsh
7) Belichik
8) Parcells
9) Brown
10) Rich Kotite

Re: Belichick...Best of All Time????
 

[quote=Schneed10;314533]But if you're going to knock Belichik down a peg for his horrible stint with the Browns, then don't you have to knock Gibbs down a peg for his 21-27 record with the 'Skins in his recent tenure?

1) Lombardi
2) Schula
3) Gibbs
4) Landry
5) Noll
6) Walsh
7) Belichik
8) Parcells
9) Brown
10) [B]Rich Kotite[/B][/quote]
:lol:!!!!!!!

Re: Belichick...Best of All Time????
 

It's tough to say because of the different era's. But you could argue that he is one of the best 5 all time. It's not like he doesn't belong in the conversation.

Could Vince L. coach in today's era? I would say not. Those old timers could not hack it in today's football. They couldn't handle the players of today. But he was the best of his era.

But no question BB is the best right now. His teams are so well prepeared for any situation.

Re: Belichick...Best of All Time????
 

[quote=Southpaw;314530]You don't consider Bill Walsh one of the top five?[/quote]

Tough call, who do you take out?

He's right there though.

Re: Belichick...Best of All Time????
 

I think Walsh was a better coach than Shula and Knoll. Walsh was a true inovator of NFL offense. How many teams in the NFL use the West Coast system, or some type of version of it. One of the best tactitions sp? of all time.

Re: Belichick...Best of All Time????
 

[quote=skinsfan69;314536]Could Vince L. coach in today's era? I would say not. Those old timers could not hack it in today's football. They couldn't handle the players of today. But he was the best of his era. [/quote]

One of the attributes of a great coach is to adapt and win, no matter the situation. If the all-time great coaches were coaching today, they would adapt to the players of today....or more likely make the players of today adapt to them. Players who win multiple championships understand they must put team before self in order to win. Generally these types of players do not have many off-field issues or demand unreasonable contracts. Great coaches attract and pursue these types of players, hence they win.

Re: Belichick...Best of All Time????
 

NO he is not. ESPN are known New England/ Boston homers.... for the most part except for you Smoot.

Re: Belichick...Best of All Time????
 

Here is my top five:

1) Lombardi - 96-34 / 9-1 Playoffs / 7 championships in 11 years.
2) Halas - 318-148-32 / 6-4 Playoffs / 6 championships
3) Shula - 328-156-6 / 3 championships
4) Gibbs - 146-86 / 17-6 Playoffs / 3 championships (with 3 different QBs). 1982 - 1991 9 of 10 seasons with 10 or more wins. (1982 strike season 8-1). If Gibbs can win 1 or 2 more rings before retiring (without any more 5-11 seasons) he will vault to # 2.
5) Landry - 250-162 / 20-16 Playoffs / 2 Championships. 1968 - 1983 13 of 15 seasons with 10 or more wins.

Belichick is in the top 10 discussion, not top five.

Re: Belichick...Best of All Time????
 

Belichak best of all time...So Cleveland never happened?

They have actually been ahead of the curve as an organization working the current rules of the NFL...it's not even close to all Belichek. I am more inclined to put Scott Pioli in the top 5 front office guys of all time.

Re: Belichick...Best of All Time????
 

[quote=Schneed10;314533]But if you're going to knock Belichik down a peg for his horrible stint with the Browns, then don't you have to knock Gibbs down a peg for his 21-27 record with the 'Skins in his recent tenure? I can't do that though, you accomplished what you accomplished, a sub-par stint in another time or place doesn't change that.

1) Lombardi
2) Schula
3) Gibbs
4) Landry
5) Noll
6) Walsh
7) Belichik
8) Parcells
9) Brown
10) Rich Kotite[/quote]
You should rethink the comment on Bill B and his time with the Browns.... think about it... one year, they are in the playoffs and heading in the right direction. The next season, while it is going on, the owner announces the team that is identified by that city is moving... and then everything went to SH_T.

and come on... Rich Kotite????? be real

Re: Belichick...Best of All Time????
 

I dont know why everyone is saying no way in hell, I'm not saying that he is, but I think it is a possibility that he is. He is a genious in all aspects of the game. He adjusts his coaching appropriatly to every situation, and is very innovative in the way he does things. Like how he never had less than 4 LBs on the field against the Eagles in his last super bowl. When you are good enough that 3 of your coordinators in the past 3 years (I think that is right) have been hired to become head coaches because they worked under you, then you are definately a possible canidate for best coach of all time.

Re: Belichick...Best of All Time????
 

Isn't the article about best right now, not necessarily best all time? Also, yes he didn't have a lot of success in Cleveland. But isn't that part of what makes him great? His ability to learn and be better? Granted, not everyone gets a second chance.

Also, if he had won just one Super Bowl where do you guys think Levy would rank all-time?

Re: Belichick...Best of All Time????
 

[quote=BeastsoftheNFCeast;314561]I dont know why everyone is saying no way in hell, I'm not saying that he is, but I think it is a possibility that he is. He is a genious in all aspects of the game. He adjusts his coaching appropriatly to every situation, and is very innovative in the way he does things. Like how he never had less than 4 LBs on the field against the Eagles in his last super bowl. [B]When you are good enough that 3 of your coordinators in the past 3 years (I think that is right) have been hired to become head coaches because they worked under you, then you are definately a possible canidate for best coach of all time[/B].[/quote]

Would you say the same for Mike Holmgren ? He's had a couple of his former assistants get HC jobs or at least be considered for them. I say no way in hell because he simply isn't in my opinion. The fact that he kept 4 LB's on the field against the Eagles just means that's the scheme he went with that day. Yes he is innovative but that doesn't throw him over Lombardi, Walsh, or Shula of course in my opinion.

Re: Belichick...Best of All Time????
 

[quote=SmootSmack;314563]Isn't the article about best right now, not necessarily best all time? Also, yes he didn't have a lot of success in Cleveland. But isn't that part of what makes him great? His ability to learn and be better? Granted, not everyone gets a second chance.

Also, if he had won just one Super Bowl where do you guys think Levy would rank all-time?[/quote]


i say top 15 now the super bowl win i think if he had one he would still be top 15

Re: Belichick...Best of All Time????
 

[quote=SmootSmack;314563]Isn't the article about best right now, not necessarily best all time? Also, yes he didn't have a lot of success in Cleveland. But isn't that part of what makes him great? His ability to learn and be better? Granted, not everyone gets a second chance.

Also, if he had won just one Super Bowl where do you guys think Levy would rank all-time?[/quote]

True well then if we're talking about right now then yeah he's the best right now, hands down. I just threw up in my mouth a bit just now. NO NO NO IT'S GIBBS IT'S GIBBS,.... ahhhhhhh that's better. No but seriously, he is. I just hate how everyone gets on their knees and gives him a good ol prize winning BJ for whatever he does.

Also i was thinking about Levy because while he never won the big one he made it there 4 times. 4 times his team was the best in his Conference, and they were always pretty competitive as well. I think he should be top 10 if not top 15.

Re: Belichick...Best of All Time????
 

[quote=Schneed10;314533]But if you're going to knock Belichik down a peg for his horrible stint with the Browns, then don't you have to knock Gibbs down a peg for his 21-27 record with the 'Skins in his recent tenure? I can't do that though, you accomplished what you accomplished, a sub-par stint in another time or place doesn't change that.

1) Lombardi
2) Schula
3) Gibbs
4) Landry
5) Noll
6) Walsh
7) Belichik
8) Parcells
9) Brown
10) Rich Kotite[/quote]

Kotite?!

LOL I missed that the first time around.

Re: Belichick...Best of All Time????
 

[quote=celts32;314550]Belichak best of all time...So Cleveland never happened?

They have actually been ahead of the curve as an organization working the current rules of the NFL...it's not even close to all Belichek. I am more inclined to put Scott Pioli in the top 5 front office guys of all time.[/quote]

Well you could use the same agument w/ Gibbs 1 and Gibbs 2.

Gibbs 1 had a GM and Gibbs 2 does not.

Re: Belichick...Best of All Time????
 

[quote=MonkFan4Life;314569]True well then if we're talking about right now then yeah he's the best right now, hands down. I just threw up in my mouth a bit just now. NO NO NO IT'S GIBBS IT'S GIBBS,.... ahhhhhhh that's better. No but seriously, he is. I just hate how everyone gets on their knees and gives him a good ol prize winning BJ for whatever he does.

Also i was thinking about Levy because while he never won the big one he made it there 4 times. 4 times his team was the best in his Conference, and they were always pretty competitive as well. I think he should be top 10 if not top 15.[/quote]
Levy??? Is not in the discussion... If you remember, the AFC sucked in that era... Just like now the AFC is the dominate conference, the NFC had that era... The Raiders won in 1984 and not until the Broncos in 98 did another AFC team win the big game.

Re: Belichick...Best of All Time????
 

4 Super Bowls in a row is still pretty impressive.

You have to admire how he kept that team together and kept them coming back for more with each Super Bowl loss.

Re: Belichick...Best of All Time????
 

[quote=Mattyk72;314584]4 Super Bowls in a row is still pretty impressive.

You have to admire how he kept that team together and kept them coming back for more with each Super Bowl loss.[/quote]
Yes, and he is a great guy too... former George Allen assistant... but not one of the top 5 all time

Re: Belichick...Best of All Time????
 

[quote=MonkFan4Life;314565]Would you say the same for Mike Holmgren ? He's had a couple of his former assistants get HC jobs or at least be considered for them. I say no way in hell because he simply isn't in my opinion. The fact that he kept 4 LB's on the field against the Eagles just means that's the scheme he went with that day. Yes he is innovative but that doesn't throw him over Lombardi, Walsh, or Shula of course in my opinion.[/quote]

I know that 4 LB's was just the scheme he had that day, but he never had less than 4 LB's, and when going against a multi reciever set team like the eagles, that is a ballsy move. There is no real point in bringing this up besides that I am still impressed by his scheme that day. I still cant see how not going into a nickle or dime package even once the whole game could ever work against the powerful pass offense of the eagles, but somehow it did.

Also, not so many of Holmgren's coordinators in such a short period of time were considered for HC job.

Re: Belichick...Best of All Time????
 

[quote=Redskin Rich;314585]Yes, and he is a great guy too... former George Allen assistant... but not one of the top 5 all time[/quote]

Def. not top 5.

He's somewhere in the discussion though when talking about the top 25 or so.

Re: Belichick...Best of All Time????
 

What about Sid Gillman? He's got to be up there

Re: Belichick...Best of All Time????
 

[quote=SmootSmack;314591]What about Sid Gillman? He's got to be up there[/quote]
Not in the top 5.... we need a new thread... and have it with a cut off of top 5 or 10... see what people think.

Re: Belichick...Best of All Time????
 

[quote=Redskin Rich;314551]and come on... Rich Kotite????? be real[/quote]

:doh:

You should get 3 months for having no sense of humor.

[B]Joke[/B]
–noun 1.something said or done to provoke laughter or cause amusement, as a witticism, a short and amusing anecdote, or a prankish act: [I]He tells very funny jokes. She played a joke on him.[/I]

Re: Belichick...Best of All Time????
 

[quote=Redskin Rich;314551]You should rethink the comment on Bill B and his time with the Browns.... think about it... one year, they are in the playoffs and heading in the right direction. The next season, while it is going on, the owner announces the team that is identified by that city is moving... and then everything went to SH_T.[/quote]

Also, you clearly are missing my point on his Browns' tenure. That stint does nothing to take away from his accomplishments in New England.

Re: Belichick...Best of All Time????
 

Sorry Matty... I thought we had hijacked this one... my bad