Scouts Inc. TE rankings
 

Link: [URL]http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/insider/news/story?id=2923211[/URL]

[B]14. [/B][URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=was"][B][COLOR=#000000]Washington Redskins[/COLOR][/B][/URL]
[URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=6840"][COLOR=#000000]Chris Cooley[/COLOR][/URL] has scored 13 times and averaged 64 receptions (12 yards per catch) over the past two seasons. He led the team in receptions in 2006 and showed his athleticism with a 6-yard touchdown scamper versus the [URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=car"][COLOR=#000000]Carolina Panthers[/COLOR][/URL]. Cooley is light on his feet and has become an efficient route runner, finding voids in short and intermediate zones. He is sure-handed and displays power and quickness after the catch. Cooley is a solid blocker at the point, but his lack of height hinders his ability to get leverage on the edge. The Redskins have veteran [URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=5301"][COLOR=#000000]Todd Yoder[/COLOR][/URL] (a career backup) who has not been a factor as a receiver. Third-year player [URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=7065"][COLOR=#000000]Eric Edwards[/COLOR][/URL] was recently acquired from the Cardinals and may give Redskins QB Jason Campbell more options in the passing game.

Re: Scouts Inc. TE rankings
 

Eric Edwards? Are you kidding me? Who the f** is Eric Edwards?!

I maintain, I'll take Warpath over 95% of the talking heads.

Re: Scouts Inc. TE rankings
 

14th is a bit low. I understand that there's a huge dropoff in talent after Cooley, but the same can be said for eight out of the top ten rated teams. And you'd think Kellen Winslow would have to show some sort of consistency before he's gushed over to the extent he is in that article...

Re: Scouts Inc. TE rankings
 

while i think im not as high on cooley as some around here, he is definitely a top 5 tight end

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Dmek I think Cooley is great but he isn't top 5 top 10 sure but what they rank here is team dept

Top 5 TE

Gates, Antonio
Gonzalez, Tony
Crumpler, Alge
Witten, Jason
Shockey, Jeremy

with Heap, T comming six and Cooley seventh in my book behind him you have Winslow and V. Davis just because of potential

Re: Scouts Inc. TE rankings
 

[quote=D'BOYZ;329302]Dmek I think Cooley is great but he isn't top 5 top 10 sure but what they rank here is team dept

Top 5 TE

Gates, Antonio
Gonzalez, Tony
Crumpler, Alge
Witten, Jason
Shockey, Jeremy

with Heap, T comming six and Cooley seventh in my book behind him you have Winslow and V. Davis just because of potential[/quote]
Can't argue with you there.

Re: Scouts Inc. TE rankings
 

[quote=D'BOYZ;329302]Dmek I think Cooley is great but he isn't top 5 top 10 sure but what they rank here is team dept

Top 5 TE

Gates, Antonio
Gonzalez, Tony
Crumpler, Alge
Witten, Jason
Shockey, Jeremy

with Heap, T comming six and Cooley seventh in my book behind him you have Winslow and V. Davis just because of potential[/quote]

I take Cooley over Crumpler, Witten and definitely Shockey.

Re: Scouts Inc. TE rankings
 

[quote=D'BOYZ;329302]Dmek I think Cooley is great but he isn't top 5 top 10 sure but what they rank here is team dept

Top 5 TE

Gates, Antonio
Gonzalez, Tony
Crumpler, Alge
Witten, Jason
Shockey, Jeremy

with Heap, T comming six and Cooley seventh in my book behind him you have Winslow and V. Davis just because of potential[/quote]Shockey is pretty awful. He can't block, he doesn't have the best hands, and hes undisciplined. He runs his mouth a lot, and for whatever reason, the media associates that with having skill.

Witten has a very different game than Cooley. Very smart player. It's all about personal preference at TE, but I don't think Witten's skill set is too much different than your run of the mill TE. Certainly in my mind inferior to Cooley's.

I don't think I could make an argument for Cooley over the other 3, (Save of course, "YAC is really REALLY important". It is.) Crumpler's a better blocker, and the other two have really had off the hook production.

I think you are underrating Heap a bit (and obviously Cooley), but its no biggie.

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I originally posted that I hated Shockey, and that he was over-rated.

But pulled up his stats and they're pretty fuggin good.

Re: Scouts Inc. TE rankings
 

[quote=Scouts Inc.]Third-year player [URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=7065"][COLOR=#000000]Eric Edwards[/COLOR][/URL] was recently acquired from the Cardinals and may give Redskins QB Jason Campbell more options in the passing game.[/quote]What insight!

Re: Scouts Inc. TE rankings
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;329323]Shockey is pretty awful. He can't block, he doesn't have the best hands, and hes undisciplined.

Witten has a very different game than Cooley. Very smart player. It's all about personal preference at TE, but I don't think Witten's skill set is too much different than your run of the mill TE. Certainly in my mind inferior to Cooley's.

I don't think I could make an argument for Cooley over the other 3, (Save of course, "YAC is really REALLY important". It is.) Crumpler's a better blocker, and the other two have really had off the hook production.

I think you are underrating Heap a bit (and obviously Cooley), but its no biggie.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I agree. There is no scenario in which I put Shockey in the Top 5 best TE's in football. Also, I agree about Witten. I think he's a very nice player, but he's not the same player. I'd take Cooley over him any day of the week.

As for Crumpler, as the primary target of his QB, it's a little unfair to compare the 2. I'd be interested to see a scenario in which Cooley were the primary target (just to see where his production would be, however, I don't wish injury on all the wide outs).

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[quote=RobH4413;329326]I originally posted that I hated Shockey, and that he was over-rated.

But pulled up his stats and they're pretty fuggin good.[/quote]If Manning gets him the ball, hes going to get a lot of yards.

That doesn't mean a whole lot to me. I want better than expected production from my TE position. Shockey doesn't bring that.

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[quote=GTripp0012;329330]If Manning gets him the ball, hes going to get a lot of yards.

That doesn't mean a whole lot to me. I want better than expected production from my TE position. Shockey doesn't bring that.[/quote]
I really don't think Manning is that good of a QB, and his stats are as good as Cooley's, if not better.

He's done it for longer, and he's fairly consistent.

Does he drop balls, yes. But he's still a good tight end.

Bastard, yes, talented... definitely.

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[quote=RobH4413;329344]I really don't think Manning is that good of a QB, and his stats are as good as Cooley's, if not better.

He's done it for longer, and he's fairly consistent.

Does he drop balls, yes. But he's still a good tight end.

Bastard, yes, talented... definitely.[/quote]Doesn't matter if its Spergeon Wynn at QB...well maybe Spergeon Wynn.

If he gets more passes thrown at him than Cooley, hes going to get more yards (unless the talent discrepancy is crazy). That doesn't tell us enough about the player.

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[quote=12thMan;329315]I take Cooley over Crumpler, Witten and definitely Shockey.[/quote]

you can take who ever you like doesn't mean you're right

Re: Scouts Inc. TE rankings
 

[quote=GTripp0012;329323]Shockey is pretty awful. He can't block, he doesn't have the best hands, and hes undisciplined. He runs his mouth a lot, and for whatever reason, the media associates that with having skill.

Witten has a very different game than Cooley. Very smart player. It's all about personal preference at TE, but I don't think Witten's skill set is too much different than your run of the mill TE. Certainly in my mind inferior to Cooley's.

I don't think I could make an argument for Cooley over the other 3, (Save of course, "YAC is really REALLY important". It is.) Crumpler's a better blocker, and the other two have really had off the hook production.

I think you are underrating Heap a bit (and obviously Cooley), but its no biggie.[/quote]

the only reason I put Heap under Shockey it's because he get injured 2 much if not Heap would be fifth even fourth I don't like Shockey either i think he's big mouth spoiled brat that can hurt his team more than help but you can't argue his stats 4 years with over 60+ catches 3 season with 6 or more TD 2 season with almsot 900 yards cooley has had oly 1 year with 60+ catches and 3 with 6 or more tds but only 2 seasons with 700+ yards.

I think with V.Davis, Winsow, Cooley and Others this is the last year Shockey would be in a top 5 list but untill that he's the fifth or sixt best.

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[quote=jdlea;329328]Yeah, I agree. There is no scenario in which I put Shockey in the Top 5 best TE's in football. Also, I agree about Witten. I think he's a very nice player, but he's not the same player. I'd take Cooley over him any day of the week.

As for Crumpler, as the primary target of his QB, it's a little unfair to compare the 2. I'd be interested to see a scenario in which Cooley were the primary target (just to see where his production would be, however, I don't wish injury on all the wide outs).[/quote]

What has to intrigue you jdlea is not that he's the primary target of Vicks is that every defensive coordinator every defensive players knows he's the primary target an that vick's going to throw to him and still he post better numbers than cooley and Witten.

That tells you how good he is it's like Gates can you tell me a better receiver in SD he's the primary target still each week he goes out and humiliates every defense

Re: Scouts Inc. TE rankings
 

I'm sure he does get thrown too more, and drops more passes as well.

Do you know where you can find stats for this?

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[quote=12thMan;329264]Eric Edwards? Are you kidding me? Who the f** is Eric Edwards?!

I maintain, I'll take Warpath over 95% of the talking heads.[/quote]

True. The Warpath has a great knowledge base, and way better analysis skills than idiots like Peter King and this rediculous article.

Re: Scouts Inc. TE rankings
 

[quote=RobH4413;329355]I'm sure he does get thrown too more, and drops more passes as well.

Do you know where you can find stats for this?[/quote][URL="http://www.footballoutsiders.com/book.php"]PFP 2007[/URL] will have it...but the release date is still a week away.

Other than that, no, no I do not.

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I dont see how they didnt get in top 5 on that.

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[quote=GTripp0012;329385][URL="http://www.footballoutsiders.com/book.php"]PFP 2007[/URL] will have it...but the release date is still a week away.

Other than that, no, no I do not.[/quote]
Yeah, Shockey sucks. Thanks for the link Gtripp... helped out a lot.

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I wouldnt say Shockey sucks. He is just very inconsistent.

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[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;329411]I wouldnt say Shockey sucks. He is just very inconsistent.[/quote]
I don't literally think he sucks, but initially I was going to say he was over-rated. Then I proceeded to over-rate him myself based on flawed statistics.

Re: Scouts Inc. TE rankings
 

[quote=RobH4413;329414]I don't literally think he sucks, but initially I was going to say he was over-rated. Then I proceeded to over-rate him myself based on flawed statistics.[/quote]


Overreated and inconsistent. Not a good combo.

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Are you guys kidding me! Look at Cooley's production versus Witten and Shockey the past year or so...Cooley is by far a better production TE. He may not be top three, but he sure is hell is at least top 4 or 5.

Re: Scouts Inc. TE rankings
 

I would say that Cooley is the most underrated reciever/TE in the NFL.

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[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;329424]I would say that Cooley is the most underrated reciever/TE in the NFL.[/quote]I'd agree.

Thats really saying something though, he's pretty well respected around the league. It's just that his name doesn't come up when you talk about the leagues best offensive player...and it really should.

Now he's not nearly as valuable as a great QB or a great RB, but hes really dominant with respect to his position.

Re: Scouts Inc. TE rankings
 

[quote=GTripp0012;329435]I'd agree.

Thats really saying something though, he's pretty well respected around the league. It's just that his name doesn't come up when you talk about the leagues best offensive player...and it really should.

Now he's not nearly as valuable as a great QB or a great RB, but hes really dominant with respect to his position.[/quote]


I would say that he has been the most productive, consistent TE in the NFC the last 2 seasons.

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[quote=RobH4413;329414]I don't literally think he sucks, but initially I was going to say he was over-rated. Then I proceeded to over-rate him myself based on flawed statistics.[/quote]I didn't think I'd find much, but check out these catch %'s:

2006-57%
2005-53%
2004-63%
2003-69%
2002-58%

Could Shockey be regressing?

Re: Scouts Inc. TE rankings
 

[quote=GTripp0012;329437]I didn't think I'd find much, but check out these catch %'s:

2006-57%
2005-53%
2004-63%
2003-69%
2002-58%

Could Shockey be regressing?[/quote]


Or Maybe it is Eli starting.

Re: Scouts Inc. TE rankings
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;329438]Or Maybe it is Eli starting.[/quote]QB certainly plays a factor in this number (but not a significant one)...but QBs in this league get a lot worse than Eli.

Kellen Winslow caught 75% of the passes thrown his way last year. Eli Manning is way, way, way better than Charlie Frye will ever be.

Winslow is also better than Shockey, until SKINSandCANES says otherwise.

Re: Scouts Inc. TE rankings
 

[quote=GTripp0012;329442]QB certainly plays a factor in this number (but not a significant one)...but QBs in this league get a lot worse than Eli.

Kellen Winslow caught 75% of the passes thrown his way last year. Eli Manning is way, way, way better than Charlie Frye will ever be.

Winslow is also better than Shockey, until SKINSandCANES says otherwise.[/quote]


Winslow is better than Shockey.

Re: Scouts Inc. TE rankings
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;329464]Winslow is better than Shockey.[/quote]I think you have 200 posts in the last 24 hours.

Only one way to find out:

[url]http://www.redskinswarpath.com/misc.php?do=topposters[/url]

Way off. Jsarno though, is another story.

Re: Scouts Inc. TE rankings
 

[quote=GTripp0012;329676]I think you have 200 posts in the last 24 hours.

Only one way to find out:

[URL]http://www.redskinswarpath.com/misc.php?do=topposters[/URL]

Way off. Jsarno though, is another story.[/quote]


I did get that before. He is trying to break my record of 206.

Re: Scouts Inc. TE rankings
 

We quite possibly have the worst TE depth in football. Cooley is clearly a Top 10 player at his position. He probably falls into the 10-6 category, where exactly is like splitting hairs.

Re: Scouts Inc. TE rankings
 

[quote=TenandSix:Unacceptable;329869]We quite possibly have the worst TE depth in football. Cooley is clearly a Top 10 player at his position. He probably falls into the 10-6 category, where exactly is like splitting hairs.[/quote]


no way in hell do we have the worst TE depth. What about the Panthers?

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[QUOTE=D'BOYZ;329353]the only reason I put Heap under Shockey it's because he get injured 2 much if not Heap would be fifth even fourth I don't like Shockey either i think he's big mouth spoiled brat that can hurt his team more than help but you can't argue his stats 4 years with over 60+ catches 3 season with 6 or more TD 2 season with almsot 900 yards cooley has had oly 1 year with 60+ catches and 3 with 6 or more tds but only 2 seasons with 700+ yards.

I think with V.Davis, Winsow, Cooley and Others this is the last year Shockey would be in a top 5 list but untill that he's the fifth or sixt best.[/QUOTE]

Are you saying that Heap is more injury prone than Shockey? Seems to me Shockey is always hurt somehow. Plus he's dumb as sh*t. Intelligence injury right there.

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[QUOTE=D'BOYZ;329354]What has to intrigue you jdlea is not that he's the primary target of Vicks is that every defensive coordinator every defensive players knows he's the primary target an that vick's going to throw to him and still he post better numbers than cooley and Witten.

That tells you how good he is it's like Gates can you tell me a better receiver in SD he's the primary target still each week he goes out and humiliates every defense[/QUOTE]

I don't buy this argument. He still gets covered by LBs and safeties, not CBs. I am not convinced that he gets too much greater attention than does any other top tier TE.

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TOP 5:

1. Gates
2. Gonzales
3. Crumpler
4. Cooley
5. Heap