How is Vick "overly prosecuted"?
 

I have heard this on numerous occasions, and I think it's a load of bull.

How is it that Don Imus and Martha Stewart (for example) were justifiably crucified, but Vick was overly prosecuted?

Re: How is Vick "overly prosecuted"?
 

[quote=jsarno;344313]I have heard this on numerous occasions, and I think it's a load of bull.

How is it that Don Imus and Martha Stewart (for example) were justifiably crucified, but Vick was overly prosecuted?[/quote]
Be careful... they will shut down your thread like they shut mine down

Re: How is Vick "overly prosecuted"?
 

[QUOTE=Redskin Rich;344316]Be careful... they will shut down your thread like they shut mine down[/QUOTE]

I thought yours was because of the religious undertone?

There just seems to be a lot of people out there that are upset about how everything went down, and they the only reason "we" are going after Vick is cause he's a "prominant" black athlete.
To me, that is completely bogus. Martha and Imus did much less and got much worse for their issues. (comparitively speaking)

Re: How is Vick "overly prosecuted"?
 

Not really sure I even understand what this thread is about? Though if it's about whether this has been "fair" or not, of if it's a racial issue...I think those topics have been brought up several times on various threads.

Re: How is Vick "overly prosecuted"?
 

[quote=jsarno;344320]I thought yours was because of the religious undertone?

There just seems to be a lot of people out there that are upset about how everything went down, and they the only reason "we" are going after Vick is cause he's a "prominant" black athlete.
To me, that is completely bogus. Martha and Imus did much less and got much worse for their issues. (comparitively speaking)[/quote]

I don't think they are overly prosecuting Vick. I didnt read the closed thread but who said anything about overly prosecuting? I think most people agree with what's going down.

And as a Black female, I am sick of hearing this whole racially motivated BS. Sometimes Black people need to stop overanalyzing everything as some radical racist tactic and accept this situation for what it is:

A Black guy effed up and is getting punished and leave it at that.

Re: How is Vick "overly prosecuted"?
 

I'm really tired of hearing Vick's name. I'm even more tired of the Vick threads. Sorry, had to say it. Carry on...

Re: How is Vick "overly prosecuted"?
 

[QUOTE=DynamiteRave;344324]I don't think they are overly prosecuting Vick. I didnt read the closed thread but who said anything about overly prosecuting? I think most people agree with what's going down.[/quote]

Well, it's what you hear when they interview people like fans, or some journalists from the Atlanta area. I've literally heard it about 15 times from 15 different people, it's quite annoying.

[quote]And as a Black female, I am sick of hearing this whole racially motivated BS. Sometimes Black people need to stop overanalyzing everything as some radical racist tactic and accept this situation for what it is:

A Black guy effed up and is getting punished and leave it at that.[/QUOTE]

I really appreciate you saying that, and I 100% agree.

Re: How is Vick "overly prosecuted"?
 

No problem Js :)

This Vick situation is turning into like a second OJ trial. :Smoker:

Re: How is Vick "overly prosecuted"?
 

[QUOTE=DynamiteRave;344343]No problem Js :)

This Vick situation is turning into like a second OJ trial. :Smoker:[/QUOTE]

True...only this time they got it right.

Re: How is Vick "overly prosecuted"?
 

I personally haven't heard anyone say that the prosecution is racially motivated. I am sure, however, that there is a very small minority of African-Americans who think the prosecution is part of some conspiracy, just as I think there are a small number of whites who want to see him go down.

As for whether Vick is being "overly prosecuted," I guess I'd have to ask what you mean by "overly prosecuted." Are you asking whether his sentence will likely be longer than most other criminals who have committed similar crimes? Are you asking whether the prosecutor was too zealous? Are you asking whether Vick is getting a tougher sentence in the court of public opinion than is deserved?

I love dogs and hate animal cruelty. I've spent some $4,500 for two surgeries for two dogs who I adopted from the local SPCA and a disaster relief shelter and thousands more dollars on toys, cans of science diet, vet fees, etc. I also cried like a little girl when my last dog died of cancer. I also think that Michael Vick deserves to go to prison for [I]at least [/I]one year. But, I think when you consider the fact that he (1) will likely lose about $20-$40M dollars in salary and endorsements, (2) will likely lose his career, (3) and is about to lose his freedom for a year or more, it would be hard to argue that Vick is being "under-punished."

Please try not to read too much into that last sentence. I am thrilled that more attention is being paid to animal/dog rights, Vick is going to jail, and that we, as a society, seem to have evolved in terms of our love of animals. I was just trying to make the point that it is hard to argue that all of the punishment that Vick has and will receive is light.

Re: How is Vick "overly prosecuted"?
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;344350]I personally haven't heard anyone say that the prosecution is racially motivated. I am sure, however, that there is a very small minority of African-Americans who think the prosecution is part of some conspiracy, just as I think there are a small number of whites who want to see him go down.

As for whether Vick is being "overly prosecuted," I guess I'd have to ask what you mean by "overly prosecuted." Are you asking whether his sentence will likely be longer than most other criminals who have committed similar crimes? Are you asking whether the prosecutor was too zealous? Are you asking whether Vick is getting a tougher sentence in the court of public opinion than is deserved?

I love dogs and hate animal cruelty. I've spent some $4,500 for two surgeries for two dogs who I adopted from the local SPCA and a disaster relief shelter and thousands more dollars on toys, cans of science diet, vet fees, etc. I also cried like a little girl when my last dog died of cancer. I also think that Michael Vick deserves to go to prison for [I]at least [/I]one year. But, I think when you consider the fact that he (1) will likely lose about $20-$40M dollars in salary and endorsements, (2) will likely lose his career, (3) and is about to lose his freedom for a year or more, it would be hard to argue that Vick is being "under-punished."

Please try not to read too much into that last sentence. I am thrilled that more attention is being paid to animal/dog rights, Vick is going to jail, and that we, as a society, seem to have evolved in terms of our love of animals. I was just trying to make the point that it is hard to argue that all of the punishment that Vick has and will receive is light.[/QUOTE]

Well, there is a difference here. His punishment will be a suspension from the NFL and incarceration. The consequences of his actions are the loss of endorsements and salary.
If you were incarcerated, I'd wager your boss would discontinue your salary as well.
The fact that he COULD and likely will return to the NFL at some point means the punishment is not stiff enough. Again, if it was a normal person with a normal job, we would not get our jobs back after we were done, and it would be very hard to find a job being a felon.

Look at Don Imus...all he did was utter 3 words in a forum where freedom of speech should have been applied, and he lost EVERYTHING.

Re: How is Vick "overly prosecuted"?
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;344359]Look at Don Imus...all he did was utter 3 words in a forum where freedom of speech should have been applied, and he lost EVERYTHING.[/QUOTE]

Not to threadjack, but Don Imus got fired because he is an idiot. He got paid because people liked what he said, then he said some pretty idiotic things that people didn't like, his employer was losing ad money, and so Imus was fired. Imus has the right to his opinions, but his employer had the right to fire him because his comments hurt the company's bottom line.

In any event, what exactly does Imus have to do with Vick?

Re: How is Vick "overly prosecuted"?
 

Pretty hard to feel bad for Vick--I mean, in a movie, if you want to show that a character is really bad, then you have him kill a dog. Vick admitted to being involved with the death of six. And he has (had!) a 130 mil contract. What an idiot.

(Prediction: Imus will be back soon. Martha is doing fine. Wonder if the NFL will let Vick back in? Do the Raiders need a QB? He's wouldn't even be the Cinncy bengal with the most jail time.)

(No, I don't think the NFL should.)

(I have a bad feeling about this thread...)

Re: How is Vick "overly prosecuted"?
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;344365]Not to threadjack, but Don Imus got fired because he is an idiot. He got paid because people liked what he said, then he said some pretty idiotic things that people didn't like, his employer was losing ad money, and so Imus was fired. Imus has the right to his opinions, but his employer had the right to fire him because his comments hurt the company's bottom line.

In any event, what exactly does Imus have to do with Vick?[/QUOTE]

Also...not the first time Imus made comments like that

Re: How is Vick "overly prosecuted"?
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;344365]Not to threadjack, but Don Imus got fired because he is an idiot. He got paid because people liked what he said, then he said some pretty idiotic things that people didn't like, his employer was losing ad money, and so Imus was fired. Imus has the right to his opinions, but his employer had the right to fire him because his comments hurt the company's bottom line.[/quote]

Well, you're getting deep into Imus, and that's not the point, the point is:
And the NFL / Falcons don't have the right to "fire" Vick?
What Vick did was 1 million times worse (and I'm being nice) than what Imus did, and Imus lost everything for it, so why shouldn't Vick?

[quote]In any event, what exactly does Imus have to do with Vick?[/QUOTE]

It's about the persecution of an exhaulted person. Note the very first comment here with Imus and Martha Stewart.

Re: How is Vick "overly prosecuted"?
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;344369]Also...not the first time Imus made comments like that[/QUOTE]


Nor is it the first time Vick has done something stupid. (ie: knowingly give a woman an STD and the whole water bottle incident...he's not a "great guy" like everyone says when he does these things)

Also, regardless if Imus has SAID anything, those were just words, and this country is founded on freedom of speech. Huge differences there.

Re: How is Vick "overly prosecuted"?
 

Don Imus hasn't lost everything - he has his freedom, he didn't have to give his employer back his salary, and he [URL="http://drudgereport.com/flash2ii.htm"]may[/URL] get another gig. FYI - The First Amendment doesn't apply to the whole Imus incident.

Re: How is Vick "overly prosecuted"?
 

Your argument doesn't make sense to me. Imus lost his job with CBS, but could likely come back. Whether it's through terrestrial radio or satellite radio, or tv, or the web, etc.

Vick lost his job (though not officially yet) with the Falcons, he's going to prison, and there's no guarantee he's coming back to the NFL.

Re: How is Vick "overly prosecuted"?
 

[quote=Lady Brave;344325]I'm really tired of hearing Vick's name. I'm even more tired of the Vick threads. Sorry, had to say it. Carry on...[/quote]


Agreed! Give it a rest already!

Can we vote for when the next Vick thread is allowed? I vote for when he is sentenced...we'll have a Vick thread that day, then no more until he is out of the pen.

Re: How is Vick "overly prosecuted"?
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;344378]Your argument doesn't make sense to me. Imus lost his job with CBS, but could likely come back. Whether it's through terrestrial radio or satellite radio, or tv, or the web, etc.[/quote]

Well really, they don't have a lot of similarity, the point is Imus was overly prosecuted, and Vick is not. (same with Martha Stewart being over prosecuted and Vick is not) Vick is getting a light sentence and punishment.

[quote]Vick lost his job (though not officially yet) with the Falcons, he's going to prison, and there's no guarantee he's coming back to the NFL.[/QUOTE]

He'll be back. (although I'd say as a WR)

Re: How is Vick "overly prosecuted"?
 

I guess none of us (at least I don't) know what you mean still by "overly prosecuted"

Re: How is Vick "overly prosecuted"?
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;344377]Don Imus hasn't lost everything - he has his freedom, he didn't have to give his employer back his salary, and he [URL="http://drudgereport.com/flash2ii.htm"]may[/URL] get another gig. FYI - The First Amendment doesn't apply to the whole Imus incident.[/QUOTE]

Well, I disagree with you here, but that would be getting off the subject. I'll get back to the subject, I will tell you that this was argued before here and was proven to be a freedom of speech issue since the FCC didn't fine him. But again, the subject is about Vick, and how about we change it to "Martha Stewart vs Vick"?

Re: How is Vick "overly prosecuted"?
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;344389]I guess none of us (at least I don't) know what you mean still by "overly prosecuted"[/QUOTE]


I don't know how to explain it any more than I already have.

Re: How is Vick "overly prosecuted"?
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;344387]Well really, they don't have a lot of similarity, the point is Imus was overly prosecuted, and Vick is not. (same with Martha Stewart being over prosecuted and Vick is not) Vick is getting a light sentence and punishment.[/QUOTE]

Imus lost a job for making insanely dumb comments when his job is to make funny and insightful comments. Imus never faced criminal prosecution. Imus was paid by his employer to leave (as part of a settlement for ending his contract). It's hard to see exactly how he was overly prosecuted when he was never prosecuted.

Martha isn't exactly hurting either. She's a billionaire who spent a little time in prison for violating federal securities laws. I don't feel exactly sorry for her either.

I don't feel sorry for Vick in the slightest. Vick is getting what he had coming to him. But, to say that sending him to federal prison for a while, costing him tens of millions of dollars, and ruining his career is somehow "light punishment" for killing seven dogs (a reprehensible crime) is a little perplexing. I know everyone (including myself) likes to talk about throwing Vick into a ring with wild dogs, but we are a land with a justice system and he is going to get exactly what the federal prosecutors are asking for. I'm happy with his punishment.

Re: How is Vick "overly prosecuted"?
 

So, you're saying that Vick should have received a harsher sentence? Or that the public shouldn't be as forgiving?

Re: How is Vick "overly prosecuted"?
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;344391]I will tell you that this was argued before here and was proven to be a freedom of speech issue since the FCC didn't fine him.[/QUOTE]

Huh? I took a dump and the FCC didn't fine me, so I guess that makes my taking a dump a First Amendment issue. End of threadjack.

Re: How is Vick "overly prosecuted"?
 

Vick has to be in the top 3 in all-time, stunning falls from grace. Even Kobe would have to ask what Vick was thinking! I think the coverage has been pretty fair throughout the case, though.

Re: How is Vick "overly prosecuted"?
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;344395]Imus lost a job for making insanely dumb comments when his job is to make funny and insightful comments. Imus never faced criminal prosecution. Imus was paid by his employer to leave (as part of a settlement for ending his contract). It's hard to see exactly how he was overly prosecuted when he was never prosecuted.
[/QUOTE]

Maybe where people are getting confused is that I am referring to a court of public opinion.

Re: How is Vick "overly prosecuted"?
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;344396]So, you're saying that Vick should have received a harsher sentence? Or that the public shouldn't be as forgiving?[/QUOTE]


Well, yes to both on that, but in particular the public being as "understanding" as they have been. (and not caring as they have been...not that everyone is, but a lot are)

Re: How is Vick "overly prosecuted"?
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;344397]Huh? I took a dump and the FCC didn't fine me, so I guess that makes my taking a dump a First Amendment issue. End of threadjack.[/QUOTE]

And you taking a dump is normally regulated by the FCC? :rolleyes:

(now back to the thread)

Re: How is Vick "overly prosecuted"?
 

[quote=jsarno;344375]Nor is it the first time Vick has done something stupid. (ie: knowingly give a woman an STD and the whole water bottle incident...he's not a "great guy" like everyone says when he does these things)

Also, regardless if Imus has SAID anything, those were just words, and this country is founded on freedom of speech. Huge differences there.[/quote]

Well since I already talked about Vick, here's my Imus rant:

I dunno about Imus. I don't think the guy's a racist, I think he just said the wrong thing. Maybe if he had just left it at nappy-headed, people wouldn't have gotten so blown about it.

I mean the only people really blowing it up were the NAACP and Al Sharpton (Who's annoying as hell). I can't understand why they can't focus on something worth focusing on. I'm sure there ARE injustices against Black people taking place somewhere in the US or even outside of the US. Get involved in that stuff. Not what some old white guy says on the radio. Dude looks like he could croak at any given point in time anyway. Give the dude a break.

Maybe if it was directed AT me I'd feel different. But I mean I'm nappy-headed, I know that, I've accepted that. Maybe the only thing I'd get bent out of proportion about is the hoes thing. But that whole bitches and hoes argument lead to critisizing rap music. And then critisizing the use of the N word in rap music. It was like this huge PC slippery slope. (I'm really starting to sound like a right-winger now huh?)

But maybe its just from personal experience, being that I'm Black and grew up around white people and lots of Black people don't. I'm one of those Black chicks that get weird looks from other Black people cause I know how to use correct english and I dress like I fell out of an Pac Sun catalog.

Sometimes people of different races say insensitive things about other races cause they just don't know better. I get asked about the nappy hair, if I burn when I go out in the sun, if I like rap music, typical things like that.

All I know is that I get along with everyone: Black or white. Gay or straight. Male or female. It seems like people are so focused on being PC that when someones NOT PC, everyone wants to point it out and draw that dividing line again, which automatically makes them, racist or homophobic or sexist. What Imus said was insensitive yes. But not racist. Although upon learning about what other things hes said he probably should've been jerked off the air awhile ago.

But I feel like his punishment fit the crime, which was to lose his position. Of course someone would pick him up. No one that popular is out of a job forever.

Re: How is Vick "overly prosecuted"?
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;344401]Well, yes to both on that, but in particular the public being as "understanding" as they have been. (and not caring as they have been...not that everyone is, but a lot are)[/QUOTE]

I think, as has been mentioned, there's been a good amount of opinions expressed publicly representing both sides; all three sides actually-too light a punishment, too harsh, and just right

Re: How is Vick "overly prosecuted"?
 

[QUOTE=DynamiteRave;344403]Well since I already talked about Vick, here's my Imus rant:

I dunno about Imus. I don't think the guy's a racist, I think he just said the wrong thing. Maybe if he had just left it at nappy-headed, people wouldn't have gotten so blown about it.

I mean the only people really blowing it up were the NAACP and Al Sharpton (Who's annoying as hell). I can't understand why they can't focus on something worth focusing on. I'm sure there ARE injustices against Black people taking place somewhere in the US or even outside of the US. Get involved in that stuff. Not what some old white guy says on the radio. Dude looks like he could croak at any given point in time anyway. Give the dude a break.

Maybe if it was directed AT me I'd feel different. But I mean I'm nappy-headed, I know that, I've accepted that. Maybe the only thing I'd get bent out of proportion about is the hoes thing. But that whole bitches and hoes argument lead to critisizing rap music. And then critisizing the use of the N word in rap music. It was like this huge PC slippery slope. (I'm really starting to sound like a right-winger now huh?)

But maybe its just from personal experience, being that I'm Black and grew up around white people and lots of Black people don't. I'm one of those Black chicks that get weird looks from other Black people cause I know how to use correct english and I dress like I fell out of an Pac Sun catalog.

Sometimes people of different races say insensitive things about other races cause they just don't know better. I get asked about the nappy hair, if I burn when I go out in the sun, if I like rap music, typical things like that.

All I know is that I get along with everyone: Black or white. Gay or straight. Male or female. It seems like people are so focused on being PC that when someones NOT PC, everyone wants to point it out and draw that dividing line again, which automatically makes them, racist or homophobic or sexist. What Imus said was insensitive yes. But not racist. Although upon learning about what other things hes said he probably should've been jerked off the air awhile ago.

But I feel like his punishment fit the crime, which was to lose his position. Of course someone would pick him up. No one that popular is out of a job forever.[/QUOTE]

great post...now back to Vick

Re: How is Vick "overly prosecuted"?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;344407]great post...now back to Vick[/quote]

Vick's dead meat.

That's pretty much all there is to that.

Re: How is Vick "overly prosecuted"?
 

I think it's feasible that he could play in the NFL again. And yes, a team in the NFL will pay him to play football; You'd better believe it.

Re: How is Vick "overly prosecuted"?
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;344403]Well since I already talked about Vick, here's my Imus rant:

I dunno about Imus. I don't think the guy's a racist, I think he just said the wrong thing. Maybe if he had just left it at nappy-headed, people wouldn't have gotten so blown about it.

I mean the only people really blowing it up were the NAACP and Al Sharpton (Who's annoying as hell). I can't understand why they can't focus on something worth focusing on. I'm sure there ARE injustices against Black people taking place somewhere in the US or even outside of the US. Get involved in that stuff. Not what some old white guy says on the radio. Dude looks like he could croak at any given point in time anyway. Give the dude a break.

Maybe if it was directed AT me I'd feel different. But I mean I'm nappy-headed, I know that, I've accepted that. Maybe the only thing I'd get bent out of proportion about is the hoes thing. But that whole bitches and hoes argument lead to critisizing rap music. And then critisizing the use of the N word in rap music. It was like this huge PC slippery slope. (I'm really starting to sound like a right-winger now huh?)

But maybe its just from personal experience, being that I'm Black and grew up around white people and lots of Black people don't. I'm one of those Black chicks that get weird looks from other Black people cause I know how to use correct english and I dress like I fell out of an Pac Sun catalog.

Sometimes people of different races say insensitive things about other races cause they just don't know better. I get asked about the nappy hair, if I burn when I go out in the sun, if I like rap music, typical things like that.

All I know is that I get along with everyone: Black or white. Gay or straight. Male or female. It seems like people are so focused on being PC that when someones NOT PC, everyone wants to point it out and draw that dividing line again, which automatically makes them, racist or homophobic or sexist. What Imus said was insensitive yes. But not racist. Although upon learning about what other things hes said he probably should've been jerked off the air awhile ago.

But I feel like his punishment fit the crime, which was to lose his position. Of course someone would pick him up. No one that popular is out of a job forever.[/quote]

Interesting post, very good insight.

Re: How is Vick "overly prosecuted"?
 

[quote=12thMan;344409]I think it's feasible that he could play in the NFL again. And yes, a team in the NFL will pay him to play football; You'd better believe it.[/quote]

He could play, yes but will they actually let him?

I mean it wouldn't be the first time an ex-con played football... Right?

Re: How is Vick "overly prosecuted"?
 

YAAAWWWNNNN!!!!!

:sleep:

Re: How is Vick "overly prosecuted"?
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;344412] I mean it wouldn't be the first time an ex-con played football... Right?[/quote]

Umm..I think so. I'll have to check that one.

Re: How is Vick "overly prosecuted"?
 

[QUOTE=DynamiteRave;344412]He could play, yes but will they actually let him?

I mean it wouldn't be the first time an ex-con played football... Right?[/QUOTE]

Does Jamal Lewis count? What exactly is the definition of "ex-con"