Why Cartwright over ARE?
 

We spent all this money on ARE to be a WR and a special teamer, and all we do is let him loose on punt returns, why not kick returns?

Re: Why Cartwright over ARE?
 

he said himself that he doesnt like to do kick off returns. And gibbs prefers RBs over WRs on KO returns.

Re: Why Cartwright over ARE?
 

Why all the hate towards Rock as a kick returner? If anyone doesn't remember, he set a Redskins record for most kick return yards in a season. And he also returned a kick for a touchdown against Dallas. Antwaan is doing fine as a punt returner and Rock is doing fine as a kick returner. And his deal doesn't look that bad in comparison to some of the deals players got this offseason.

Re: Why Cartwright over ARE?
 

[QUOTE=mooby;345544]Why all the hate towards Rock as a kick returner? If anyone doesn't remember, he set a Redskins record for most kick return yards in a season. And he also returned a kick for a touchdown against Dallas.[/QUOTE]
Couldn't that be attributed to the fact that the D also set team records for futility? I'd like to see his average compared to a guy like Brian Mitchell or Mike Nelms (who I had to look up, he averaged 29.7 yards per kick return in '81).

Re: Why Cartwright over ARE?
 

It's simple, in Pittsburgh he was mainly a #3 WR, they could afford to turn him loose on kickoffs.

I'm not sure if many teams around the league put their #2 WRs in on kickoffs regularly.

Re: Why Cartwright over ARE?
 

The only point I'm trying to make is that Rock is not that bad of a kick returner. I think the point Jsarno was trying to make is that ARE has a big deal and he doesn't return kicks. I think the reason we gave him a big deal is because that was what the market dictated and we really wanted him. He's a good wide receiver for us, plus he is also good as a punt returner and on trick plays.

Re: Why Cartwright over ARE?
 

If there's one thing I think we can count on this year, it's that Al Saunders will see to it that Randle El plays much more of a significant role with the offense than he did last season.

Re: Why Cartwright over ARE?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;345554]It's simple, in Pittsburgh he was mainly a #3 WR, they could afford to turn him loose on kickoffs.

I'm not sure if many teams around the league put their #2 WRs in on kickoffs regularly.[/QUOTE]

Most don't, you're right...and ARE was a #3 all last year and it has yet to be seen what he will be this year.

Re: Why Cartwright over ARE?
 

[quote=jsarno;345566]Most don't, you're right...and ARE was a #3 all last year and it has yet to be seen what he will be this year.[/quote]

Actually he finished the year at the #2

Re: Why Cartwright over ARE?
 

[QUOTE=mooby;345544]Why all the hate towards Rock as a kick returner? If anyone doesn't remember, he set a Redskins record for most kick return yards in a season. And he also returned a kick for a touchdown against Dallas. Antwaan is doing fine as a punt returner and Rock is doing fine as a kick returner. And his deal doesn't look that bad in comparison to some of the deals players got this offseason.[/QUOTE]

It's not about yards, it's about yards per attempt.
Rock is not explosive, and I feel like we could have had the league leader if we had someone explosive back there. Rock is not even close to our fastest player...he's no burner, and he's not amazingly ellusive. We as skins fans overrate him as a KR because he's so small and he has heart.

Re: Why Cartwright over ARE?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;345570]Actually he finished the year at the #2[/QUOTE]

LOL...but you get the point, he was a #3 most of the year and still didn't do KR. I suspect he will be a #3 again this year too.
There is no way in hell he's worth his contract if he doesn't do kick returns.

Re: Why Cartwright over ARE?
 

We haven't seen much of Lloyd this preseason and ARE has been pretty solid. I like ARE to start the year as the #2 and really surprise some people this year.

Re: Why Cartwright over ARE?
 

yeah Lloyd started something like the first 9 games and ARE started the last few. As for Rock as the kick returner, we could do a lot worse than him. The reason we don't see ARE on kickoffs is because he is a starter at wide receiver. Steve Smith can return punts and kickoffs but you will never see him do that anymore because he is too valuable to Carolina on offense.

Re: Why Cartwright over ARE?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;345576]We haven't seen much of Lloyd this preseason and ARE has been pretty solid. I like ARE to start the year as the #2 and really surprise some people this year.[/QUOTE]

I hope you're right...we need one of them to step up. I personally think it will be Lloyd, but I could care less, we need both of them to step up.

Re: Why Cartwright over ARE?
 

[QUOTE=mooby;345577]yeah Lloyd started something like the first 9 games and ARE started the last few. As for Rock as the kick returner, we could do a lot worse than him. The reason we don't see ARE on kickoffs is because he is a starter at wide receiver. Steve Smith can return punts and kickoffs but you will never see him do that anymore because he is too valuable to Carolina on offense.[/QUOTE]


That is laughable...you just compared Steve Smith to ARE.
You do realize that ARE only had 32 catches for 351 yards last year right?
ARE has not been valuable to our offense to this point, hopefully that will change.

Your excuse is the excuse for Santana not to do kickoff returns, not ARE.

Re: Why Cartwright over ARE?
 

I'm not comparing Antwaan Randle El's skills to Steve Smith's. I'm saying they are similar because they both start at wide receiver in their respective offenses. That is the only comparible thing between the two. My excuse applies to Santana as well as ARE.

Re: Why Cartwright over ARE?
 

[quote=mooby;345591]I'm not comparing Antwaan Randle El's skills to Steve Smith's. I'm saying they are similar because they both start at wide receiver in their respective offenses. That is the only comparible thing between the two. My excuse applies to Santana as well as ARE.[/quote]

I understood you just fine.

Re: Why Cartwright over ARE?
 

[QUOTE=mooby;345591]I'm not comparing Antwaan Randle El's skills to Steve Smith's. I'm saying they are similar because they both start at wide receiver in their respective offenses. That is the only comparible thing between the two. My excuse applies to Santana as well as ARE.[/QUOTE]

But he didn't even start half the season last year for us.

Re: Why Cartwright over ARE?
 

I was talking to Jsarno lol.

@Jsarno: Yeah but he was the #3 receiver. So we overpaid for him. It doesn't matter now, everybody in free agency is getting overpaid. Do you think Dockery deserves to get as much money as Steve Hutchinson is getting in Minny? Either way, I think Gibbs is comfortable using ARE as a wide receiver, a trick play guy, and as a punt returner. And if he had to, then maybe he would line ARE up on kickoffs, but he doesn't really have a need to because Rock was doing fine on kickoffs.

Re: Why Cartwright over ARE?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;345593]I understood you just fine.[/QUOTE]


So you feel the #1, #2, and #3 WR's shouldn't do kick returns?????

Re: Why Cartwright over ARE?
 

Returning kickoffs is a different animal. Gibbs likes pounders who can get that five extra yards on the KR because that adds up over the course of the year and is a more consistent approach. Randle-El might break a couple but he would get nailed inside the 20 more than would be acceptable. Plus injuries are more likely on KR.

I actually think Santana is the best open field guy on the team. If it's the NFC Championship and we're down in the 4th quarter, he would be my Darrel Green.

Re: Why Cartwright over ARE?
 

[quote=mooby;345599]I was talking to Jsarno lol.[/quote]

yeah I understood that too, I was just trying to back up your point that you weren't directly comparing ARE to Smith.

Re: Why Cartwright over ARE?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;345604]yeah I understood that too, I was just trying to back up your point that you weren't directly comparing ARE to Smith.[/quote]

Oh aiight then. Thanks.

Re: Why Cartwright over ARE?
 

[quote=jsarno;345601]So you feel the #1, #2, and #3 WR's shouldn't do kick returns?????[/quote]

#1 and #2, nope.

Not unless it's a big game or because of injury.

Re: Why Cartwright over ARE?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;345607]#1 and #2, nope.

Not unless it's a big game or because of injury.[/QUOTE]


If ARE plays like a #2, then I agree with you. But he plays like a #3, or #4. If he starts the season as the #2, I agree 100%. We don't want him getting hurt on a KR. Just don't know why everyone thinks ARE is a stud when he has sucked for us thus far...might as well get as much out of the wasted money we are throwing at him as possible.

Re: Why Cartwright over ARE?
 

[QUOTE=mooby;345599]And if he had to, then maybe he would line ARE up on kickoffs, but he doesn't really have a need to because Rock was doing fine on kickoffs.[/QUOTE]

That's a good argument.

Re: Why Cartwright over ARE?
 

[quote=70Chip;345602]Returning kickoffs is a different animal. Gibbs likes pounders who can get that five extra yards on the KR because that adds up over the course of the year and is a more consistent approach. Randle-El might break a couple but he would get nailed inside the 20 more than would be acceptable. Plus injuries are more likely on KR.
[/quote]

Yupp that pretty much hits it on the spot. Its about being conservative, getting the extra couple yards, and preventing injury to a number 2-3 WR.

Re: Why Cartwright over ARE?
 

We've talked about injuries, but what about all those players that are important to their teams?
MCgee (starting CB)
Hester (will be #3 this year)
D. Hall (#3 wr)
Burleson (#2 / #3)
Rossum (starting CB)
Pittman (back up RB)
Miller (starting CB)
Jones Drew (split starting RB)
Welker (#2 WR)

Re: Why Cartwright over ARE?
 

[quote=jsarno;345652]We've talked about injuries, but what about all those players that are important to their teams?
MCgee (starting CB)
Hester (will be #3 this year)
D. Hall (#3 wr)
Burleson (#2 / #3)
Rossum (starting CB)
Pittman (back up RB)
Miller (starting CB)
Jones Drew (split starting RB)
Welker (#2 WR)[/quote]

OK first of Hester doesnt really count on this list because he is only an impactful return man in general, that is his role. Same with Hall. Those are two that automatically drop out of this argument and list.

For the others, I see what you are aiming at, but look at that percentage wise. That would be way less than half the teams in the NFL using important players to KR. We also mentioned Gibbs mentality. He is conservative in that he would get the extra five, instead of gambling injury and loss of yards for that one TD.

Re: Why Cartwright over ARE?
 

[quote=jsarno;345652]We've talked about injuries, but what about all those players that are important to their teams?
MCgee (starting CB)
Hester (will be #3 this year)
D. Hall (#3 wr)
Burleson (#2 / #3)
Rossum (starting CB)
Pittman (back up RB)
Miller (starting CB)
Jones Drew (split starting RB)
Welker (#2 WR)[/quote]


Rossum not a starter D. Hall number 4 this year at best Welker will be number 3 and Burleson sucks

Re: Why Cartwright over ARE?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;345554]It's simple, in Pittsburgh he was mainly a #3 WR, they could afford to turn him loose on kickoffs.

I'm not sure if many teams around the league put their #2 WRs in on kickoffs regularly.[/quote]

The Steelers ironically are doing just that. Santonio Holmes.

Re: Why Cartwright over ARE?
 

It has alot to do with coaching philosophy. I can see why Gibbs likes Rock....
[LIST][*]1) He doesn't fumble kickoffs. (I can't find any stats, so correct me if I'm wrong)[/LIST][LIST][*]2) He's consistent (I think he's right along the middle of the pack in return yard average)[/LIST][LIST][*]3) He's expendable.[/LIST]
I'm sure Saunders doesn't want his gadget guy lost on a kickoff. ARE can do a lot of damage on offense with his versatility, and I'm sure he'll be used for PR.

Rock is a mediocre kick returner who's completely expendable. Why risk your #2 WR when you've got Rock... it just doesn't seem like it would make any sense.

To cap it off, Rock is a better kick returner anyways. (Keep in mind, punt returns and kick returns are two totally different things)
[B]
Antwaan Randel El - 22.3 yds / return
Rock Cartwright - 22.7 yds / return
[/B]

Re: Why Cartwright over ARE?
 

[quote=ArtMonkDrillz;345547]Couldn't that be attributed to the fact that the D also set team records for futility? I'd like to see his average compared to a guy like Brian Mitchell or Mike Nelms (who I had to look up, he averaged 29.7 yards per kick return in '81).[/quote]

cartwright had like 24.0 last year if i remember correctly. he's a good kick return guy.

Re: Why Cartwright over ARE?
 

you saw we lost a kick returner in the game on thursday, right?

that's why his exposure is limited.

Re: Why Cartwright over ARE?
 

First off punt returning is a lot different than kick returning. In punting u generally end up being just 1 on 1 or 1 on 2. Lots of space to make a move, therefore you don't need to plow people over, which I can't imagine ARE being too good at. Kick returning is different, you build up a head of steam and just basically throw your body into the defender and hope he gets knocked over, that's why Cartright gets the honors.