McNabb says black QBs criticized more
 

[url=http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3025308]ESPN - Report: McNabb says black QBs criticized more - NFL[/url]

When the issue of race was thrust upon Donovan McNabb, I thought it was unfair. Now he wraps himself in it to insulate himself from criticism.

It might be that you are criticized more than Manning because you haven't won a Super Bowl. It might be that your are criticized more than Palmer because Cincinnati isn't Philadelphia - the meanest city in the league. It might be that you are criticized more than both because your completion percentage (58.1) and Yards per Attempt (6.74) is lower than Manning's (64.0/7.70) or Palmer's (63.8/7.36).

And maybe it [i]is[/i] because you are black. But I doubt it.

Re: And now I don't care about McNabb...
 

The race issue was not "thrust" upon Donovan, he's been using that excuse and story since he's been in the league. I have to think that his racial and paranoid look at the world comes from his father. Remember during the Owens/McNabb catfight when his father came on TV and called Owens' criticism of his son's play "black-on-black crime"? That's ridiculous. He has always spoken about himself as a black QB instead of just a QB. The people who claim to be victims are actually the people keeping the racial divide alive, people like Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, the NAACP and yes, even McNabb every time he whines about being a victim.

You never hear Jason Campbell segregate himself or mention his skin color, all he talks about is trying to help his teammates win. That's class. Even Doug Williams became tired of all of the focus on his skin color, as he should've been.

McNabb's latest crying fit on HBO, claiming he's criticized because he is black is just STUPID. First, Philly will boo everyone and anyone, even Santa Claus or someone singing the Nation Anthem. Secondly, they're not booing him because he's black, just look at his stats and his health record. He's not the QB he used to be and they're realizing that they'll never make another Super Bowl with him. His stats put him at the bottom of the league this season. Even mediocre and backup QBs have better stats than him. As seen last night, he can't get the job done any more. He can't run. He can't hit receivers accurately. He can't win for the team anymore.

If it was a racial issue, Rex Grossman would be praised constantly and no one would like Tiger Woods.

Shut up Donovan. We're sick of you.




Oh...
[url=http://www.blackathlete.net/artman/publish/printer_1527.shtml]What Did McNabb Mean?[/url]

Re: And now I don't care about McNabb...
 

I don't agree with McNabb and I'm black. He gets a lot of media kissing his butt. The bottom line is he is not as good as Manning, Palmer and Brady. But when he is healthy, he is in the next tier.

Re: And now I don't care about McNabb...
 

You bring some interesting points Buster. I remember Doug Williams saying something to the effect that he was a quarterback that was black, but not a "black quarterbacK". Because to state otherwise, that he somehow only got the acclaim because of his skin color, rather than his talent, and success. I thought at the time what an unpopular and courageous thing to say.

Re: And now I don't care about McNabb...
 

[quote=Buster;353656]The race issue was not "thrust" upon Donovan, he's been using that excuse and story since he's been in the league. I have to think that his racial and paranoid look at the world comes from his father. Remember during the Owens/McNabb catfight when his father came on TV and called Owens' criticism of his son's play "black-on-black crime"? That's ridiculous. He has always spoken about himself as a black QB instead of just a QB. The people who claim to be victims are actually the people keeping the racial divide alive, people like Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, the NAACP and yes, even McNabb every time he whines about being a victim.

You never hear Jason Campbell segregate himself or mention his skin color, all he talks about is trying to help his teammates win. That's class. Even Doug Williams became tired of all of the focus on his skin color, as he should've been.

McNabb's latest crying fit on HBO, claiming he's criticized because he is black is just STUPID. First, Philly will boo everyone and anyone, even Santa Claus or someone singing the Nation Anthem. Secondly, they're not booing him because he's black, just look at his stats and his health record. He's not the QB he used to be and they're realizing that they'll never make another Super Bowl with him. His stats put him at the bottom of the league this season. Even mediocre and backup QBs have better stats than him. As seen last night, he can't get the job done any more. He can't run. He can't hit receivers accurately. He can't win for the team anymore.

If it was a racial issue, Rex Grossman would be praised constantly and no one would like Tiger Woods.

Shut up Donovan. We're sick of you.




Oh...
[URL="http://www.blackathlete.net/artman/publish/printer_1527.shtml"]What Did McNabb Mean?[/URL][/quote]

But don't you think his poor performace is due to his health? I mean you could see that his throwing motion is flawed because of his knee. Reid needs to sit him down. Culpepper went through the same thing last year.

Re: And now I don't care about McNabb...
 

[quote=skinsfan69;353666]But don't you think his poor performace is due to his health? I mean you could see that his throwing motion is flawed because of his knee. Reid needs to sit him down. Culpepper went through the same thing last year.[/quote]

It could be, but what difference does that make? He's not getting the job done and it's ONLY his own fault, not the media's, not the Philly fans, not his teammates and not us white folks.

Remember when Brunell was battling injuries his first year here and we all wanted him gone because he's not the QB he once was and we weren't winning? Well, same situation in Philly right now, that's why they drafted Kolb. McNabb's resume and career stats won't help the team forever and they have to make plans to replace him and with his injury history over the past 3 years, they need to have a replacement on call at all times.

Re: And now I don't care about McNabb...
 

mcnabb is one of the best in the game, when he's healthy... but he's gonna get hung out to dry even when he's hurt, because

1) eagles got rid of their talented backup and feely is hurt, so the only alternative is an untested rookie who doesn't even really practice...

2) he plays in a town who prides themselves on criticism, whether its justified or not... the harsher the better...

3) he keeps opening his mouth and saying stupid things... which only attracts more criticts. He can blame it on being black if he wants, but if Palmer or Manning loses 6-7 games pretty quickly while having a piss poor completion rating, missing throws, etc...(whether they're hurt or not) they'll face plenty of criticism...

I wonder if we were so critical of Mark Brunell here only because he's black... hmmm....

Re: And now I don't care about McNabb...
 

Also, if being a black QB is so tough...how did either of the teams with a black QB win last night? Campbell looked a LOT better than McNabb and his team won, not because of skin color, because of his performance on the field. If McNabb feels his game isn't where it should be, he should work on it, not look for someone to blame.

Re: And now I don't care about McNabb...
 

[quote=canthetuna;353680]mcnabb is one of the best in the game, when he's healthy... but he's gonna get hung out to dry even when he's hurt, because

1) eagles got rid of their talented backup and feely is hurt, so the only alternative is an untested rookie who doesn't even really practice...

2) he plays in a town who prides themselves on criticism, whether its justified or not... the harsher the better...

3) he keeps opening his mouth and saying stupid things... which only attracts more criticts. He can blame it on being black if he wants, but if Palmer or Manning loses 6-7 games pretty quickly while having a piss poor completion rating, missing throws, etc...(whether they're hurt or not) they'll face plenty of criticism...

I wonder if we were so critical of Mark Brunell here only because he's black... hmmm....[/quote]

McNabb is only digging himsef a deeper hole. He should have kept his mouth shut cause those fans are really going to turn on him if he doesn't start playing better.

Re: And now I don't care about McNabb...
 

Mark Brunell should pull a McNabb and cry age discrimination to show the country how ridiculous Donovan is being. :D

Re: And now I don't care about McNabb...
 

I dont think this type of thing will ever stop. It is changing, but slowly. Facts are facts. The QB position in the NFL has been a white position since the beginning. It is getting to be more diverse that what it use to be, but it will probably always be like it is now. Referring to McNabb, Young ect as the Black QB. I dont think him saying its because of my color I get critisized is fair, or on point. Like it was said earlier, Philly fans dont care what color he is, they will boo no matter what. I am sure if there was a white RB in the NFL now that was tearing it up, it would get a lot of attention because of him being white. Listen to players introduce other team members, they do it all the time. Didn't McNabb introduce on of his WR as "white lightening" or something. Why is that important, because the term white lightening means the white guy can run fast, which generally white guys aren't that fast. Its all over the NFL, and NBA for that matter. A white guy that play like a black guy, remember White Chocolate?? So for athletes to all of the sudden bring this crap up his hypocritical. thats my point of view.

Re: And now I don't care about McNabb...
 

[quote=#56fanatic;353706]I dont think this type of thing will ever stop. It is changing, but slowly. Facts are facts. The QB position in the NFL has been a white position since the beginning. It is getting to be more diverse that what it use to be, but it will probably always be like it is now. Referring to McNabb, Young ect as the Black QB. I dont think him saying its because of my color I get critisized is fair, or on point. Like it was said earlier, Philly fans dont care what color he is, they will boo no matter what. I am sure if there was a white RB in the NFL now that was tearing it up, it would get a lot of attention because of him being white. Listen to players introduce other team members, they do it all the time. Didn't McNabb introduce on of his WR as "white lightening" or something. Why is that important, because the term white lightening means the white guy can run fast, which generally white guys aren't that fast. Its all over the NFL, and NBA for that matter. A white guy that play like a black guy, remember White Chocolate?? So for athletes to all of the sudden bring this crap up his hypocritical. thats my point of view.[/quote]

Just worrying or thinking about "diversity" is racist in a way, it is still viewing people by the skin colors and even setting unfair quotas that make skin color more important than skills and performance. Look at the rule that a black candidate MUST be interviewed before hiring a new coach. That's racist in my opinion. Judge by merits, not skin color. Most people who preach "Unity" and "Diversity" are the people keeping race in front of everyone and are actually causing more of a separation and racial divide. I believe MOST people think about results more than race when it comes to sports, employment, anything else. But, when you are forced to look at skin colors to fulfill some artificial quota, it brings race to the forefront in your mind and in your daily life when it probably would've been overlooked before.

Re: And now I don't care about McNabb...
 

McNabbs an idiot for saying this crap.
I used to think of him as a classy guy, and at times I can see what he means by being criticized as a black qb, but those instences come from ignorant INDIVIDUALS, and make up a very small minority. And when those ignorant people say these racist things they are criticized, and even sometimes fired.

Yes people for a long time fought to keep black athletes out of white leagues, and in the past there has been a stigma that suggests that qb is a "white position." And yes Donovan there are still racists in america... but it doesn't pervade the culture at large, and to take that on as part of your identity sets this country back, all races...

Do america a favor and show some class or shut the fu@# up!

Re: And now I don't care about McNabb...
 

[quote=Buster;353714]Just worrying or thinking about "diversity" is racist in a way, it is still viewing people by the skin colors and even setting unfair quotas that make skin color more important than skills and performance. Look at the rule that a black candidate MUST be interviewed before hiring a new coach. That's racist in my opinion. Judge by merits, not skin color. Most people who preach "Unity" and "Diversity" are the people keeping race in front of everyone and are actually causing more of a separation and racial divide. [B]I believe MOST people think about results more than race when it comes to sports, employment, anything else[/B]. But, when you are forced to look at skin colors to fulfill some artificial quota, it brings race to the forefront in your mind and in your daily life when it probably would've been overlooked before.[/quote]

This is not entirely true. The fact is white hisghschool graduates on average make the same income as black COLLEGE GRADS!!!

There is still a racial divide in this country, and people are still making professional decisions based on race rather then qualification.

I think professional sports is a unique spectrum within which race is not considered when evaluating a prospect...So if McNabb wants to bitch about race he should be looking out for his fellow AA's and complain about racial inequality in the workplace, and consider himself lucky to be talented enough at football to not have to face the cruel reality of the working world in todays america.

Re: And now I don't care about McNabb...
 

[QUOTE=WillH;353722]This is not entirely true. The fact is white hisghschool graduates on average make the same income as black COLLEGE GRADS!!!

There is still a racial divide in this country, and people are still making professional decisions based on race rather then qualification.

I think professional sports is a unique spectrum within which race is not considered when evaluating a prospect...So if McNabb wants to bitch about race he should be looking out for his fellow AA's and complain about racial inequality in the workplace, and consider himself lucky to be talented enough at football to not have to face the cruel reality of the working world in todays america.[/QUOTE]
Well said.

Re: And now I don't care about McNabb...
 

I see McNabb leaving Philly next year for Chicago or Atlanta (my bets on Chicago).

Re: And now I don't care about McNabb...
 

[quote=Buster;353656]The race issue was not "thrust" upon Donovan, he's been using that excuse and story since he's been in the league. I have to think that his racial and paranoid look at the world comes from his father. Remember during the Owens/McNabb catfight when his father came on TV and called Owens' criticism of his son's play "black-on-black crime"? That's ridiculous. He has always spoken about himself as a black QB instead of just a QB. The people who claim to be victims are actually the people keeping the racial divide alive, people like Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, the NAACP and yes, even McNabb every time he whines about being a victim.

You never hear Jason Campbell segregate himself or mention his skin color, all he talks about is trying to help his teammates win. That's class. Even Doug Williams became tired of all of the focus on his skin color, as he should've been.

McNabb's latest crying fit on HBO, claiming he's criticized because he is black is just STUPID. First, Philly will boo everyone and anyone, even Santa Claus or someone singing the Nation Anthem. Secondly, they're not booing him because he's black, just look at his stats and his health record. He's not the QB he used to be and they're realizing that they'll never make another Super Bowl with him. His stats put him at the bottom of the league this season. Even mediocre and backup QBs have better stats than him. As seen last night, he can't get the job done any more. He can't run. He can't hit receivers accurately. He can't win for the team anymore.

If it was a racial issue, Rex Grossman would be praised constantly and no one would like Tiger Woods.

Shut up Donovan. We're sick of you.




Oh...
[URL="http://www.blackathlete.net/artman/publish/printer_1527.shtml"]What Did McNabb Mean?[/URL][/quote]


Couldn't have said it better myself. I concur with everything you said here. Especially what you said about Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson. The issue of race has made both of these men VERY VERY rich. As long as they can keep racism alive, they will keep getting paid millions.

Re: And now I don't care about McNabb...
 

what was it that Rush Limbaugh said that got him fired? I know it was about McNabb, but isn't what McNabb is saying convenient or OK for him, but somehow got Limbaugh fired. I dont recall what RL said, but maybe someone here can remember.

Re: And now I don't care about McNabb...
 

[quote=#56fanatic;353747]what was it that Rush Limbaugh said that got him fired? I know it was about McNabb, but isn't what McNabb is saying convenient or OK for him, but somehow got Limbaugh fired. I dont recall what RL said, but maybe someone here can remember.[/quote]
Didn't he say that the media was afraid to criticize him because he was black or something like that

Re: And now I don't care about McNabb...
 

I don't know what Donovan is talking about. Last night he played like shit and the announcers were still blaming his receivers and offering numerous other excuses for his awful play. Then they put Charles Barkley on to basically say the Philly fans are ungrateful and that Donovan is great, blah, blah, blah,time to turn the sound down. The media that cover the NFL love Donovan for some reason. I don't think it's because of race. I don't think it's because of anything he's done on the field. Maybe it's because he reminds them of Will Smith. I have no idea. But for him to claim he's being treated unfairly is ludicrous.

Re: And now I don't care about McNabb...
 

Here is what Limbaugh said. It wasn't even that bad.

[QUOTE]"I think what we've had here is a little social concern in the NFL. The media has been very desirous that a black quarterback do well,'' Limbaugh said. "There is a little hope invested in McNabb, and he got a lot of credit for the performance of this team that he didn't deserve. The defense carried this team."[/QUOTE]

[url=http://espn.go.com/gen/news/2003/1001/1628537.html]ESPN.com: GEN - Limbaugh resigns from ESPN[/url]

Re: And now I don't care about McNabb...
 

[quote=skinsfan69;353659]I don't agree with McNabb and I'm black. He gets a lot of media kissing his butt. The bottom line is he is not as good as Manning, Palmer and Brady. But when he is healthy, he is in the next tier.[/quote]

As a QB he lead is team to 4 consecutive NFC Championship games and a Super Bowl, that is top tier QB.

Still, I can't understand why he thinks he is criticized more because he is black...it's the god damn NFL. You will be trounced in the media if you don't perform (i.e. Eli, Chad Pen.). What an idiot. His days are numbered.

Re: And now I don't care about McNabb...
 

[quote=Buster;353714]Judge by merits, not skin color. Most people who preach "Unity" and "Diversity" are the people keeping race in front of everyone and are actually causing more of a separation and racial divide. I believe MOST people think about results more than race when it comes to sports, employment, anything else. But, when you are forced to look at skin colors to fulfill some artificial quota, it brings race to the forefront in your mind and in your daily life when it probably would've been overlooked before.[/quote]

You'd actually be wrong in the sense that it's been proven pretty clearly that while most people *believe* they don't see race, age, sex when they look at someone, the fact is that there are all kinds of inherent and built-up unconscious biases that distort that stated desire to be objective.

There are online tests you can take which reveal this, and I must warn you that it's somewhat uncomfortable to realize you are not nearly as unbiased as you'd like to think you are. The important thing to realize is that the mechanisms that create these biases are in most cases not something a person has consciously chosen. They have to do with media, cultural biases, pressure to fit within perceived societal norms, etc.

If you all are interested in links, I can dig some up. I recommend the book "Blink" if you're really curious, it's a great read.

The takeaway for me in all of this is that Donovan is probably correct to a certain degree that there are biases that affect a typical NFL fan's mind with regards to a black quarterback. However, he doesn't address the fact that those same biases might affect a typical NFL fan's mind with regards to a white running back or (as others here have pointed out) a speedy white receiver (White Lightning, as it were).

And, realistically the problem with him bringing this up is that he's doing so from a position of weakness in a city known for eating its young and beloved if they falter. Had he made these comments right after winning the NFC championship or Super Bowl, or in another context, they might not seem like cop-outs.

I think the paraphrasing quote from Doug Williams was the best thing in this thread. While everyone has biases, and sometimes those biases affect views and decisions, most folks don't consciously choose to consider a player's race until it's shoved in their face.

Choosing to allow yourself to be defined by the color of your skin can only limit you in what you can accomplish and how you're perceived. Ever notice how nobody really focuses on the fact Tiger Woods' ethnicity anymore, despite the fact that golf is basically an old white man's game? It's because he refuses to allow that to define him.

Re: And now I don't care about McNabb...
 

[quote=#56fanatic;353747]what was it that Rush Limbaugh said that got him fired? I know it was about McNabb, but isn't what McNabb is saying convenient or OK for him, but somehow got Limbaugh fired. I dont recall what RL said, but maybe someone here can remember.[/quote]

He didn't say anything about McNabb. He was talking about the media and their propping up of certain individuals LIKE McNabb even when they're not statistically because they want to a black QB to succeed.

THEN, the media jumped on him and caused him a racist to get him fired because he criticized them.

Even if you don't like him, you have to admit he's right. Look at baseball with the constant Latino celebrations. Take the HR derby a few years ago, they chose Latino hitters only from different Latin American countries instead of taking the best hitters who would put on the best show.

Pro sports and the media (especially ESPN) always make race into stories to promote certain athletes.

Re: And now I don't care about McNabb...
 

[quote=saden1;353768]As a QB he lead is team to 4 consecutive NFC Championship games and a Super Bowl, that is top tier QB.
[/quote]

No, he [B][U]WAS[/U][/B] a top-tier QB. He's not anymore and if the team needs to make a move, they should.

Re: And now I don't care about McNabb...
 

I agree if McNabb doesn't shape up in the next couple weeks I think they should try there hand at their rookie QB Kolb.

Re: And now I don't care about McNabb...
 

[QUOTE=Buster;353819]Pro sports and the media (especially ESPN) always make race into stories to promote certain athletes.[/QUOTE]

I know it's cool to bash ESPN, but you really have no basis for what you just said there. ESPN doesn't make race into stories. That's not even debatable.

Re: And now I don't care about McNabb...
 

[quote=Buster;353823]No, he [B][U]WAS[/U][/B] a top-tier QB. He's not anymore and if the team needs to make a move, they should.[/quote]

Philly would be stupid to make a move on a top tier guy when he is healthy. He should get next year and they need to get the guy some help at wr. Kolb is going to have to wait a few years.

Re: And now I don't care about McNabb...
 

[quote=Buster;353819]He didn't say anything about McNabb. He was talking about the media and their propping up of certain individuals LIKE McNabb even when they're not statistically because they want to a black QB to succeed.

THEN, the media jumped on him and caused him a racist to get him fired because he criticized them.

Even if you don't like him, you have to admit he's right. Look at baseball with the constant Latino celebrations. Take the HR derby a few years ago, they chose Latino hitters only from different Latin American countries instead of taking the best hitters who would put on the best show.

Pro sports and the media (especially ESPN) always make race into stories to promote certain athletes.[/quote]

But Rush' comments were wrong. He basically said that McNabb was overrated and the defense carried the team. That is just a ridicules statement. He got his team to 3 or 4 straight NFC Champ. games and a SB??? With average to below WR's ??? C'mon! If Jason Campbell does that we all would be kisssing his ass too.

McNabb has thrown waaaaaaay more TD's then Int's. Without question when he is healthy he is a very very good NFL qb. Just ask NFL defensive coordinators. I doubt they would say he is overrated.

I did not have a problem with Rush saying the media wants blacks to do well. If he feels that way fine. Just back it up with an accurate statement. In this case it was simply not accurate.

Re: And now I don't care about McNabb...
 

[quote=skinsfan69;353950]But Rush' comments were wrong. He basically said that McNabb was overrated and the defense carried the team. That is just a ridicules statement. He got his team to 3 or 4 straight NFC Champ. games and a SB??? With average to below WR's ??? C'mon! If Jason Campbell does that we all would be kisssing his ass too.

McNabb has thrown waaaaaaay more TD's then Int's. Without question when he is healthy he is a very very good NFL qb. Just ask NFL defensive coordinators. I doubt they would say he is overrated.

I did not have a problem with Rush saying the media wants blacks to do well. If he feels that way fine. Just back it up with an accurate statement. In this case it was simply not accurate.[/quote]

Good points here, I was a little bewildered reading through the thread and seeing so many people defend Rush. Im not saying he should have been fired for his comment, but it was definitely not accurate, and in my opinion in bad taste.

That said, McNabbs comments are just as tasteless and demeaning, if not more so.

Re: And now I don't care about McNabb...
 

[quote=WillH;353979]Good points here, I was a little bewildered reading through the thread and seeing so many people defend Rush. Im not saying he should have been fired for his comment, but it was definitely not accurate, and in my opinion in bad taste.

That said, McNabbs comments are just as tasteless and demeaning, if not more so.[/quote]

The thing is none of us are in McNabb's shoes. Just watched the whole piece on HBO. He had to grow up w/ racism through his childhood. He has had to deal w/ the NAACP giving him shit. The whole T.O. BS, and not to mention is a-hole Philly fans who don't even like the guy. I'm not saying I agree with his comments cause I don't. He needs to keep his mouth shut or it's just going to get worse. But I certainly understand why he said it.

Re: And now I don't care about McNabb...
 

[quote=WillH;353722]This is not entirely true. The fact is white hisghschool graduates on average make the same income as black COLLEGE GRADS!!!

There is still a racial divide in this country, and people are still making professional decisions based on race rather then qualification.

I think professional sports is a unique spectrum within which race is not considered when evaluating a prospect...So if McNabb wants to bitch about race he should be looking out for his fellow AA's and complain about racial inequality in the workplace, and consider himself lucky to be talented enough at football to not have to face the cruel reality of the working world in todays america.[/quote]

Wow, this is possibly one of the best posts I have seen all year. Well said WillH.

Re: And now I don't care about McNabb...
 

I think that McNabb is definitely at a disadvantage because he plays in Philadelphia, not so much because of his race. But, like Skinsfan69 says, we're not in his shoes. I think it's a somewhat convenient crutch for him, but still.

But more than race or the god forsaken fans he has to play for, I think McNabb is starting to become aware of his football mortality, and the Eagles are doing him no favors.

McNabb is obviously not fully healthy from his knee injury, and the Eagles have a bunch of #2/#3 (at best) wide receivers in Curtis, Brown, and Baskett. Their best player on offense is, without question, Westbrook.

Yet, as often seems to be the case since Reid and McNabb hooked up nearly a decade ago, the Eagles put all the focus and pressure on McNabb and the passing game (46 passing plays to 20). If I'm McNabb, I'd say "enough of this" and demand a trade to a city that respects me, to a team that understands my physical limitations at this point, and to a coach that will help me out by using the running game.

Re: And now I don't care about McNabb...
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;354058]I think that McNabb is definitely at a disadvantage because he plays in Philadelphia, not so much because of his race. But, like Skinsfan69 says, we're not in his shoes. I think it's a somewhat convenient crutch for him, but still.

But more than race or the god forsaken fans he has to play for, I think McNabb is starting to become aware of his football mortality, and the Eagles are doing him no favors.

McNabb is obviously not fully healthy from his knee injury, and the Eagles have a bunch of #2/#3 (at best) wide receivers in Curtis, Brown, and Baskett. Their best player on offense is, without question, Westbrook.

Yet, as often seems to be the case since Reid and McNabb hooked up nearly a decade ago, the Eagles put all the focus and pressure on McNabb and the passing game (46 passing plays to 20). If I'm McNabb, I'd say "enough of this" and demand a trade to a city that respects me, to a team that understands my physical limitations at this point, and to a coach that will help me out by using the running game.[/QUOTE]

This is what gets me. Philly is always lauded as this great team that manages the cap so well. In fact I'd say they draft well but manage the cap and their personnel incredibly bad. They are constantly throwing their own players under the bus and rarely show loyalty in the way that they should in my opinion. This is a great example of that. They are basically putting everything on McNabb and expecting him to get it done but when it comes down to it this personnel staff has done nothing to ever give him weapons. I think they manage their players as poorly as the Skins have in the past. They win despite their management not because of it. Needless tangential rabt over.

Re: And now I don't care about McNabb...
 

Look at this quote
[I]
"There's not that many African-American quarterbacks, so we have to do a little bit extra," McNabb tells HBO. "Because the percentage of us playing this position, [B]which people didn't want us to play ... is low, so we do a little extra."[/B][/I]


How can he just make a claim like that so confidently as if it were a statistic? I guess I understand his comments based on his upbringing but there has to be a better way of addressing his concerns and viewpoints. He just sounds like a person finding excuses.

As WillH said before if he cares so much about race issues he should be advocating for blacks in the workplace and in other jobs where there is clear discrimination.

Re: And now I don't care about McNabb...
 

[quote=skinsfan69;353950]But Rush' comments were wrong. He basically said that McNabb was overrated and the defense carried the team. That is just a ridicules statement. He got his team to 3 or 4 straight NFC Champ. games and a SB??? With average to below WR's ??? C'mon! If Jason Campbell does that we all would be kisssing his ass too.

McNabb has thrown waaaaaaay more TD's then Int's. Without question when he is healthy he is a very very good NFL qb. Just ask NFL defensive coordinators. I doubt they would say he is overrated.

I did not have a problem with Rush saying the media wants blacks to do well. If he feels that way fine. Just back it up with an accurate statement. In this case it was simply not accurate.[/quote]At the time Limbaugh made his comments, the Eagles were a 1-3 team in 2003 coming off a home conference championship loss the previous season. McNabb was already a three time pro bowler with virtually no production in those three seasons. Completion percentages of 58, 57.8, and 58.2 respectively, and yards per attempt of 5.9, 6.6, and 6.3 respectively. No serious weapons, maybe. But how can anyone in their right mind say that 4 weeks into a disappointing 2003 season for the Eagles, that McNabb wasn't overrated?

Since then, McNabb got his 2003 season on track and had an outstanding 2004, and appeared to prove Rush dead wrong. But then again, add two more seasons of data (plus this season), and 2004 begins to look more like an abberation than anything.

It's hard to complement the guy for his TD/INT ratio when the Eagles throw the ball so much around the goal line. While 31 other teams will pound it in, McNabb gets his TD totals inflated. Low INTs, fine, he's earned that title over many seasons, but don't compare it against TDs! Compare it against attempts.

Re: And now I don't care about McNabb...
 

McNabb is not a race relations scholar so I think we give him too much credit when we take what he says or has said so seriously. In this case it seems a little convenient that he waits until his job security is dangerously low to bring this up.

But in response to this thread, just because McNabb is kind of a dummy on this particular issue doesn't mean there isn't racism in America anymore.

Re: And now I don't care about McNabb...
 

Regardless of his situation, throwing the race card when it's not required is serious buisness. It causes a lot of problems in the working class, it must have some type of impact in the looker room. I don't think he's getting these problems because he's black. I've been around a few racial tension fueled problems, and there's never just one person to come forward and say "this is wrong, and it's racist". I think if race was the driving factor, we would see a couple more Eagles coming forward to support Don.
Fans are going to say anything to get in your head, and in phily I can only imagine what's being said. Some pretty harsh fans up there, and I wouldn't want to play there, but they are fans and unfortunatly allowed to say what they want, be it right or wrong.
Media isn't going to throw the race of a struggling person into play because it's career suicide. So it's not coming from there.
Teamates are going to throw the race card because of what it will do for the franchise, team chemistry, and leauge.
So, where is the race card coming from? Not saying that it doesn't happen, I know there are STUPID (Ignorant is not knowing any better, stupid is knowing better, but doing it anyway.)

Re: And now I don't care about McNabb...
 

[quote=GTripp0012;354070]At the time Limbaugh made his comments, the Eagles were a 1-3 team in 2003 coming off a home conference championship loss the previous season. McNabb was already a three time pro bowler with virtually no production in those three seasons. Completion percentages of 58, 57.8, and 58.2 respectively, and yards per attempt of 5.9, 6.6, and 6.3 respectively. No serious weapons, maybe. But how can anyone in their right mind say that 4 weeks into a disappointing 2003 season for the Eagles, that McNabb wasn't overrated?

Since then, McNabb got his 2003 season on track and had an outstanding 2004, and appeared to prove Rush dead wrong. But then again, add two more seasons of data (plus this season), and 2004 begins to look more like an abberation than anything.

It's hard to complement the guy for his TD/INT ratio when the Eagles throw the ball so much around the goal line. While 31 other teams will pound it in, McNabb gets his TD totals inflated. Low INTs, fine, he's earned that title over many seasons, but don't compare it against TDs! Compare it against attempts.[/quote]

Let me ask you something. Outside of T.O. who in the hell has the guy had as a decent NFL WR? Who has done more with less around him? So what if they pass alot. The coach has to have confidence in the QB to throw alot. Only certain QB's can handle that type of gameplan. Did you watch NE the other night? How many coaches have the confidence in their QB to run that type of gameplan? Maybe 4-5 QB's in the league can do that. Brady is one of them and so is McNabb when he is healthy.

Plus how many times has McNabb broken down a defense with his mobility? That is what makes him a very good QB. There are times when people are covered and it just breaks the back of a defense when he makes 1st down w/ his legs. It's not all about passing stats. We should know that from Mon. cause JC made some great plays running that kept drives alive.

Any football fan knows McNabb has the respect of the guys he plays against. Any football fan knows he has the respect of NFL defensive coordinators. So to say he is overrated is just a silly comment made by someone who doesn't know shit about football. He was 1-3 and that is how you judge the guy? You judge the whole picture, not 4 games. Simply ridicules. Rush got fired for his comments about McNabb. He probably should have gotten fired cause of his football IQ.

Re: And now I don't care about McNabb...
 

[quote=skinsfan69;354133]Let me ask you something. Outside of T.O. who in the hell has the guy had as a decent NFL WR? Who has done more with less around him? So what if they pass alot. The coach has to have confidence in the QB to throw alot. Only certain QB's can handle that type of gameplan. Did you watch NE the other night? How many coaches have the confidence in their QB to run that type of gameplan? Maybe 4-5 QB's in the league can do that. Brady is one of them and so is McNabb when he is healthy.

Plus how many times has McNabb broken down a defense with his mobility? That is what makes him a very good QB. There are times when people are covered and it just breaks the back of a defense when he makes 1st down w/ his legs. It's not all about passing stats. We should know that from Mon. cause JC made some great plays running that kept drives alive.

Any football fan knows McNabb has the respect of the guys he plays against. Any football fan knows he has the respect of NFL defensive coordinators. So to say he is overrated is just a silly comment made by someone who doesn't know shit about football. He was 1-3 and that is how you judge the guy? You judge the whole picture, not 4 games. Simply ridicules. Rush got fired for his comments about McNabb. He probably should have gotten fired cause of his football IQ.[/quote]QBs that have been more successful than McNabb with equal or less "weaponry":

Matt Hasselbeck
Steve McNair
Brett Favre (pre and post-Walker)
Rich Gannon
Trent Green
Tom Brady
Drew Brees (circa SD)
Chad Pennington (pre shoulder injury)

The argument for McNabb over these guys is that all of these guys for one reason or another have faded in or out of the national spotlight, but all of these guys were better in their prime than Donovan was, and they were so throwing to guys like Darrell Jackson, Derrick Mason, Antonio Freeman, Charlie Garner, Troy Brown, Eric Parker, and Laverneus Coles. James Thrash in his prime was at least as competant as a majority of those guys.

Prior to 03, McNabb never had an elite target. However, by 2004 and 05, he had two. Since then, he's still had Westbrook, who has only gotten better and better since he came into the league.

Receiver play does not excuse average passing. Its an adjustment factor. If McNabb was a deserving 5 time pro bowler, he'd be able to consistently complete more than 60% in a QB friendly offense. By this point in his career its obvious he isn't good enough to do so.

Good for him with his mobility, but it hasn't helped his numbers a whole lot. Maybe it has, but if thats the case, then he is not a very good pocket passer at all. Also, if that is the case, then now that his mobility is limited this year, he won't be a serious threat at all.

Anyway, this is not to take away from what the guy has accomplished (which is quite a bit) in his 8 1/8 years in this league, only to take away from what he hasn't accomplished: become an elite QB.