Canadian Healthcare from a Canadian...
 

Here is an e-mail from a friend of mine that lives in Canada, I thought I would share because this seems to be a pressing issue, and will be even more so when the presidential debates heat up:

[i]Canadian Health Care

I saw on the news up here in Canada that Hillary Clinton introduced her new health care plan. Something similar to what we have in Canada. I also heard that Michael Moore was raving about the health care up here in Canada in his latest movie. As your friend and someone who lives with the Canada health care plan I thought I would give you some facts about this great medical plan that we have in Canada:

1) The health care plan in Canada is not free. We pay a premium every month of $96 for Shirley and I to be covered. Sounds great eh? What they don't tell you is how much we pay in taxes to keep the health care system afloat. I am personally in the 55% tax bracket. Yes 55% of my earnings go to taxes. A large portion of that, and I am not sure of the exact amount, goes directly to health care, our #1 expense.

2) I would not classify what we have as health care plan, it is more like a health diagnosis system. You can get into to see a doctor quick enough so he can tell you 'yes, indeed, you are sick', or 'you need an operation', but now the challenge becomes getting treated or operated on. We have waiting lists out the ying yang, some as much as 2 years down the road.

3) Rather than fix what is wrong with you the usual tactic in Canada is to prescribe drugs. Have a pain, here is a drug to take -- not what is causing the pain and why. No time for checking you out because it is more important to move as many patients thru as possible each hour for Government reimbursement.

4) Many Canadians do not have a family Doctor.

5) Don't require emergency treatment as you may wait for hours in the emergency room waiting for treatment.

6) Shirley's dad cut his hand on a power saw a few weeks back and it required that his hand be put in a splint -- to our surprise we had to pay $125 for a splint because it is not covered under health care, plus we have to pay $60 for each visit to the doctor for him to check it out each week.

7) Shirley's cousin was diagnosed with a heart blockage. Put on a waiting list. Died before he could get treatment.

8) Government allots so many operations per year. When that is done no more operations, unless you go to your local newspaper and plead your case and embarrass the government, then money suddenly appears.

9) The Government takes great pride in telling us how much more they are increasing the funding for health care but waiting lists never get shorter. Government just keeps throwing money at the problem, but it never goes away. They are good at finding new ways to tax us, but they don't call it a tax anymore--it is now a user fee.

10) A friend needs an operation for a blockage in her leg, but because she is a smoker they will not do it. Despite paying into the health care system all these years. My friend is 65 years old. Now there is talk that maybe we should not treat fat and obese people either because they are a drain on the health care system. Let me see now, what we want in Canada is a health care system for healthy people only? That should reduce our health care costs.

11) Forget getting a second opinion, what you see is what you get.

12) I can spend what money I have left after taxes on booze, cigarettes, junk food and anything else that could kill me, but I am not allowed by law to spend my money on getting an operation I need because that would be jumping the queue. I must wait my turn unless I am a hockey player or athlete, then I can get looked at right away. Go figure. Where else in the world can you spend money to kill yourself, but are not allowed to spend money to get healthy.

13) Oh, did I mention that immigrants are covered automatically at taxpayer expense having never contributed a dollar to the system and pay no premiums?

14) Oh, yeh, we now give free needles to drug users to try and keep them healthy. Wouldn't want a sickly druggie breaking into your house and stealing your things. But people with diabetes who pay into the health care system have to pay for their needles because it is not covered by the health care system.

I send this out not looking for sympathy but as the election looms in the states you will be hearing more and more about universal health care down there and the advocates will be pointing to Canada. I just want to make sure that you hear the truth about health care up here and have some food for thought and informed questions to ask when broached with this subject. Step wisely and don't make the same mistakes we have.

Several years ago, I went to Deaconess Hospital in Cincinnati to visit with Lewis Foster, an esteemed professor of The Cincinnati Bible Seminary (now Cincinnati Christian University). He had just returned from an extended visit in England. While there, he had what the doctors thought was probably a heart attack. I was talking with Betty, his wife. She said they went to the doctor who thought he probably had a heart attack, but couldn't be totally sure as he did not have an EKG machine in his office.

The doctor explained that there was a 3-month wait to get into a hospital, regardless of your problem. They asked if the doctor thought he could make it back to the states, and the doctor 'supposed' he could. They arranged a flight as soon as possible. Betty said he had a rough time of it, and they had an ambulance waiting at the Greater Cincinnati Airport to bring him straight to Deaconess Hospital. He did recover. Betty went on to explain that there was no incentive for a doctor to buy any expensive equipment as it would put nothing more in his pocket to do so. That certainly opened my eyes to the 'lacking and failures' of a socialized medical system.

Someone once said, 'If you think medical treatment is expensive now, you should see what it costs when it's free.'[/i]

Re: Canadian Healthcare from a Canadian...
 

No system is perfect, unfortunately ours is farther from perfection than it should be and I think that's the issue at hand.

Re: Canadian Healthcare from a Canadian...
 

[quote=Mattyk72;365659]No system is perfect, unfortunately ours is farther from perfection than it should be and I think that's the issue at hand.[/quote]

But our system is WAY better than Canada's. Quality of care is priority one, not whether or not everybody is covered.

Michael Moore and Hilary Clinton don't know what they're talking about when they look at the healthcare system. They gloss over all the downsides.

Hospital utilization, especially in urban areas, is already maxed out. All of the major hospitals here in Philly are running at 88% occupancy or higher. It's recommended for quality of care (so you don't stretch the nursing staff too thin) that you don't run any higher than 85%. If you give everyone in the city universal access to care, we run out of bed space. And then somebody's going to have to build more hospitals, which will come straight from the taxpayers' pocket.

As soon as we jack up the taxes to pay for the necessary hospital infrastructure, there will be less money in the pockets of the consumers, quite a bit less. Discretionary consumer spending will drop, and cyclical companies will lay workers off in droves. Then instead of having a healthcare coverage epidemic, we'll have an unemployment epidemic.

Those Canadian tax rates would have a dramatic effect on our economy if applied to American incomes. Hillary has no idea what she's doing.

Re: Canadian Healthcare from a Canadian...
 

45 million uninsured and the president vetoed the SCHIP bill which would have covered poor children. SCHIP would have covered kids 200 percent above the poverty line...basically a family of 3 making 34K a year (that's pretty damn poor if you ask me).

Our system doesn't work for the poor.

Re: Canadian Healthcare from a Canadian...
 

[quote=saden1;365691]45 million uninsured and the president vetoed the SCHIP bill which would have covered poor children. SCHIP would have covered kids 200 percent above the poverty line...basically a family of 3 making 34K a year (that's pretty damn poor if you ask me).

[B]Our system doesn't work for the poor[/B].[/quote]

True, but Canada's doesn't work for anybody.

Re: Canadian Healthcare from a Canadian...
 

I really don't care about Canada's system, the fact is our system needs improving.

Re: Canadian Healthcare from a Canadian...
 

Thought I would share this, as well...

[url=http://www.snopes.com/politics/medical/canada.asp]Urban Legends Reference Pages: Canadian Health Care[/url]

Re: Canadian Healthcare from a Canadian...
 

[quote=724Skinsfan;365703]Thought I would share this, as well...

[URL="http://www.snopes.com/politics/medical/canada.asp"]Urban Legends Reference Pages: Canadian Health Care[/URL][/quote]

Nice find!

Re: Canadian Healthcare from a Canadian...
 

[quote=saden1;365691]45 million uninsured and the president vetoed the SCHIP bill which would have covered poor children. SCHIP would have covered kids 200 percent above the poverty line...basically a family of 3 making 34K a year (that's pretty damn poor if you ask me).

Our system doesn't work for the poor.[/quote]
45 million is really a made up number and leaves out many facts. People who switch insurance and have a gap of a week between coverage counted. Families who can afford but choose to buy that new car instead of insurance. Young single who feel their rest is low so the do not buyhealth ins count. That SCHIP progame would have included families that make over 60,000 a year and we allready under the current programe have over 500,000 qualified children who are not signed up. A compromise was offered I think up to 45,000 but the Dems want this rejected so they could bost that the pres vetoed the bill denying children health care. So they actually cost children health ins by not taking a comprmise.

Re: Canadian Healthcare from a Canadian...
 

[quote=724Skinsfan;365703]Thought I would share this, as well...

[URL="http://www.snopes.com/politics/medical/canada.asp"]Urban Legends Reference Pages: Canadian Health Care[/URL][/quote]
I thought that looked like one of those internet letters thats why I held my comments to what others posted about SCHID.

Re: Canadian Healthcare from a Canadian...
 

[quote=saden1;365691]45 million uninsured and the president vetoed the SCHIP bill which would have covered poor children. SCHIP would have covered kids 200 percent above the poverty line...basically a family of 3 making 34K a year (that's pretty damn poor if you ask me).

Our system doesn't work for the poor.[/quote]
The 200% is the current plan for another thing and the the new plan could have included children up to 21 years old in a 4 family house hold making over 80,000 a year I'll post a link.

Re: Canadian Healthcare from a Canadian...
 

Here's a good link abou the bill and look who supports it, Health Ins Co., big business and others.
[url=http://www.examiner.com/a-972917~Timothy_P__Carney__Does_SCHIP_insure_kids_or_subsidize_savvy_HMOs_.html]Timothy P. Carney: Does SCHIP insure kids or subsidize savvy HMOs? - Examiner.com[/url]

Re: Canadian Healthcare from a Canadian...
 

[QUOTE=saden1;365691]

Our system doesn't work for the poor.[/QUOTE]

That's really too broad a statement. There are Millions upon millions of "poor" people that have health coverage through their full time jobs. And there are millions that have government assitance that are poor. So it really does work for the poor, but there are plenty that are left out due whatever reason. I'm middle class (possibly even upper middle) and I haven't had healthcare for the past 4 or 5 months. I will have new healthcare in 1 month though due to a new full time job. It's not just "the poor". It comes down to what people are willing to spend. I chose to pay my bills rather than pay for cobra.

Re: Canadian Healthcare from a Canadian...
 

[QUOTE=saden1;365691]SCHIP would have covered kids 200 percent above the poverty line...basically a family of 3 making 34K a year (that's pretty damn poor if you ask me).[/QUOTE]

What is the poverty line now?
A family of 3 making 34k could make it OK here, but we have the one of the lowest costs of living in the country. That won't cut it in Boston for instance. I would love to move back there, but I can't afford (and won't afford) to live there. I imagine the DC area is around as bad...no family can make it on 34k in those areas.

Re: Canadian Healthcare from a Canadian...
 

[QUOTE=724Skinsfan;365703]Thought I would share this, as well...

[url=http://www.snopes.com/politics/medical/canada.asp]Urban Legends Reference Pages: Canadian Health Care[/url][/QUOTE]

Thanks for the link...that pisses me off...she e-mailed it to me like she wrote it. Damn plaugerism!!!!
I just sent her an e-mail about it...she even signed it like it was hers.

Re: Canadian Healthcare from a Canadian...
 

[quote=jsarno;365785]Thanks for the link...that pisses me off...she e-mailed it to me like she wrote it. Damn plaugerism!!!!
I just sent her an e-mail about it...she even signed it like it was hers.[/quote]


I sent that letter to a friend at work to ask what he thought of it and he sent me the link in like 5 minutes. He said it smelled kind of fishy to him so he copied it into a search engine.

This is a classic example of why I take everything with a grain of salt unless I am the one with first-hand experience. Heresay from passionate people can often times confuse the issue. The world and it's going's-ons are not clear cut or black and white. Canadian health-care isn't a utopian system nor is it veiled attempt at genocide. It's somewhere in the middle with it's pro's and con's just like most everything else. To me, it all depends on how the topic of discussion personally affects you.

Re: Canadian Healthcare from a Canadian...
 

i cant believe I'm talking to educated people that really think our health care system is fine. the kinds of things that our politicians should be doing, like trying to fix this mess, they avoid like the plague. but steroids in baseball, now that's something important to capital hill. what a joke. people are always screaming on the democrats for not having any ideas. but when someone like Hillary Clinton proposes a new health care idea,its basically shot down without any real discussion

Re: Canadian Healthcare from a Canadian...
 

and jsarno, nice try. but i thought you would be above posting propaganda around here. nothing like the facts, huh?

Re: Canadian Healthcare from a Canadian...
 

LOL, I guess your friend has a lesbian gf or sister named Shirley huh Jsarno?

Re: Canadian Healthcare from a Canadian...
 

[QUOTE=dmek25;365849]i cant believe I'm talking to educated people that really think our health care system is fine. the kinds of things that our politicians should be doing, like trying to fix this mess, they avoid like the plague. but steroids in baseball, now that's something important to capital hill. what a joke. people are always screaming on the democrats for not having any ideas. but when someone like Hillary Clinton proposes a new health care idea,its basically shot down without any real discussion[/QUOTE]

I am on board with you here. Not Hillary's plan but the fact that our politicians are worried more about things that don't affect us is what pisses me off. Our health care system is broke for a variety of reasons. Mostly due to the meddling and stupidity of politicians who were too dumb to understand what they were doing at the time. Now, today, we have politicians who are too lazy or too worried about poll numbers to do anything about anything that matters. Healthcare being one of the big ones.

Re: Canadian Healthcare from a Canadian...
 

[QUOTE=dmek25;365851]and jsarno, nice try. but i thought you would be above posting propaganda around here. nothing like the facts, huh?[/QUOTE]

If a friend of your sent you an e-mail, wouldn't you trust the person thinking it was ACTUALLY FROM THEM?
I still haven't gotten an e-mail back about this. I'm still pretty pissed about it. Made me look like an idiot. I guess you can't trust anyone.

Re: Canadian Healthcare from a Canadian...
 

LOL this reminds me of a situation I had in a company I used to work for.

One day we got this company wide email from a higher up exec, warning us of gas stations where people hid needles infected with AIDS on the pump handles and people were getting pricked and getting infected.

LOL we knew right away that this person had fell for one of those email forwards, except it was pretty bad that he sent it to the entire company across the NATION!! A few minutes later he sent an apology saying he didn't realize it was one of those urban legend email forwards. And this was a company that had a pretty tight email policy, I'm sure he caught some hell for it.

It still cracks me up to this day!

Re: Canadian Healthcare from a Canadian...
 

I have no idea about the email so my only comment will be this.

We already pay enough taxes that it should cover a National Health Care System. I don't claim to have the answer I just know what the goal is and that should be a start. Don't raise my taxes and quit wasting it on Bridges in yer names and monuments and crap and cover everyone with a good Health Care System. I "think" most would aggree with that.

Have a great day guys
peace
mike

Re: Canadian Healthcare from a Canadian...
 

I got that email as well.
A friend of mine (who I forwarded it to) recently married a woman from Quebec. According to him, she completely disputes this, saying the healthcare system is quite good.
I don't personally know

Re: Canadian Healthcare from a Canadian...
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;365779] I will have new healthcare in 1 month though due to a new full time job. [QUOTE]

Congratulations on that. I hope it was what you were looking for. I know you were pretty stressed in that situation.

Re: Canadian Healthcare from a Canadian...
 

[quote=dmek25;365849]i cant believe I'm talking to educated people that really think our health care system is fine. the kinds of things that our politicians should be doing, like trying to fix this mess, they avoid like the plague. but steroids in baseball, now that's something important to capital hill. what a joke. people are always screaming on the democrats for not having any ideas. but when someone like Hillary Clinton proposes a new health care idea,its basically shot down without any real discussion[/quote]
I do not have a problem with someone wanting to make health care more affordable and more efficient but it seems everytime that the goverment gets involved the opposite happens. Just look at medicare and social security and the financial problems in those programs. If you think lobbiest are running the country now the problem will become twice as bad. Eveyone will be lobbing to get this or that covered. Politicians will run on platforms saying they will get this or that covered and so on. The problem will just get worse and worse. One of the problems with health insurance now is that the goverment mandates that ins. company cover things that I do not need to purchase which drives up my cost for coverages I do not need.

Re: Canadian Healthcare from a Canadian...
 

[QUOTE=BleedBurgundy;365986][QUOTE=jsarno;365779] I will have new healthcare in 1 month though due to a new full time job. [QUOTE]

Congratulations on that. I hope it was what you were looking for. I know you were pretty stressed in that situation.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, it will be a great position for me. A lot less stress, good benefits, and no one above me, it's my store 100%. My Boss lives and works in another state, and he's cool as anything. (younger than me actually which is a first for me) I am actually kissing his ass a little because he went to bat for me for more money from the start which he didn't have to do. I know Tom and Mike Glavine (I went to High school with Tom's brother Mike) and my new boss is a HUGE braves fan and loves Glavine, so I got them to send me an autographed baseball of Tom's. My new boss has no idea it's coming, he'll be pleasantly surprised.

Re: Canadian Healthcare from a Canadian...
 

[QUOTE=Sammy Baugh Fan;365967]I have no idea about the email so my only comment will be this.

We already pay enough taxes that it should cover a National Health Care System. I don't claim to have the answer I just know what the goal is and that should be a start. Don't raise my taxes and quit wasting it on Bridges in yer names and monuments and crap and cover everyone with a good Health Care System. I "think" most would aggree with that.

Have a great day guys
peace
mike[/QUOTE]

It seems everyone in the world agrees the government is misspending the tax money and wasting it. Someone should run on that platform.

Re: Canadian Healthcare from a Canadian...
 

I did get a response from my friend,

[i]Hi Joel,
I’m sorry to upset you with that e-mail, but I want you to know that I sent it because for the most part, I agree with it. A lot of people think we have excellent healthcare up here and it’s really horrible. Sick people will pay American doctors to do their surgeries so they won’t die waiting for the healthcare system to get around to them. This happens more than people think.
Again, I am sorry. I know you hate forwarded e-mails, and you would not have even opened it had it been a forward.
I hope you’re not really that upset at me, you’re a good friend, and I love and miss you. [/i]

Re: Canadian Healthcare from a Canadian...
 

Now no system is perfect. It is important to take the good from many systems and make it an american system. I am fine with allowing people to choose private healthcare with some sort of tax break.

The problem is, health care is something that a government should supply to its people. As hard it is to achieve, in my mind it is as simple as that. We don't worry about paying the fire department and the police. This is part of our safety and it should be covered.

Taxes may be higher but this is a basic service that a government should be providing. It seems all major industrialized countries, except for america, have been able to understand that

Re: Canadian Healthcare from a Canadian...
 

[quote=BigSKINBauer;366130]Now no system is perfect. It is important to take the good from many systems and make it an american system. I am fine with allowing people to choose private healthcare with some sort of tax break.

The problem is, health care is something that a government should supply to its people. As hard it is to achieve, in my mind it is as simple as that. We don't worry about paying the fire department and the police. This is part of our safety and it should be covered.

Taxes may be higher but this is a basic service that a government should be providing. It seems all major industrialized countries, except for america, have been able to understand that[/quote]Why then stop with health ins. How about food, water, jobs, etc.. Why is health ins a right?

Re: Canadian Healthcare from a Canadian...
 

[quote=firstdown;367486]Why then stop with health ins. How about food, water, jobs, etc.. Why is health ins a right?[/quote] Well a government should not only provide order but also keep the people safe. I think letting poor people get sick because they can't afford treatment is pretty shitty of a government. Its not only about the poor people who don't have insurance but those that get screwed by the messed up system this country has. Now obviously a public healthcare system will be much less efficient, especially at the beginning, so i have no problem allowing people get private healthcare and getting a tax break for it.

Also i think food is ok to give to people who are unable to afford it, the food stamps aren't that great anyways. People who are unemployed and part of the labor force should be helped in finding jobs. And yeah, i do think water is a something a government should offer to those that can't afford it to live. But i understand your point but it is a case by case basis. The ability to receive treatment for a sickness is something that should available to all people in this country. Life is an inherent right for all people and it should be equal for all, rich or poor. SOmeone who is rich has no more of a God given, or society given right to live moreso than someone who is poor. Now obviously people with money will always be treated better.

Re: Canadian Healthcare from a Canadian...
 

[quote=BigSKINBauer;367521]Well a government should not only provide order but also keep the people safe. I think letting poor people get sick because they can't afford treatment is pretty shitty of a government. Its not only about the poor people who don't have insurance but those that get screwed by the messed up system this country has. Now obviously a public healthcare system will be much less efficient, especially at the beginning, so i have no problem allowing people get private healthcare and getting a tax break for it.

Also i think food is ok to give to people who are unable to afford it, the food stamps aren't that great anyways. People who are unemployed and part of the labor force should be helped in finding jobs. And yeah, i do think water is a something a government should offer to those that can't afford it to live. But i understand your point but it is a case by case basis. The ability to receive treatment for a sickness is something that should available to all people in this country. Life is an inherent right for all people and it should be equal for all, rich or poor. [B]SOmeone who is rich has no more of a God given, or society given right to live moreso than someone who is poor.[/B] Now obviously people with money will always be treated better.[/quote]

Everybody has the right not to be killed. But living [U]healthy[/U] is a privelege, not a right. I don't see that shit in the Constitution. Nobody has the right to live a healthy life, that's the part that YOU have to make happen.

And that includes making sure you graduate from high school and get a job that has a modicum of health insurance benefits.

All kids born into a poor/middle class family should get covered by the government. But if you've made it to adulthood and you still can't afford health insurance, that's your fault.

Re: Canadian Healthcare from a Canadian...
 

Perhaps it's just the hippy in me but I just think it's sad in this day and age where we could easily support those that are less fortunate with basic healthcare that we turn our backs on them and have this attitude of "You don't deserve it because you didn't earn it".

Sure there are some slackers out there, but there are also some really hard working people that are in difficult situations that they can't dig out of.

It's too easy to say go to college, get a degree and everything will be ok. If only it were that easy.

Our priorities are really F'd up when we can't provide universal healthcare but we sure can find the money to bomb the shit out of other countries.

Re: Canadian Healthcare from a Canadian...
 

I think we should demand an accounting from the Fed!
I am quite sure there is plenty of loot being stolen, funneled, absconded with, liberated, etc to support ANY legit programs that we need.
Yes that's it............

Re: Canadian Healthcare from a Canadian...
 

[quote=Mattyk72;367627]Perhaps it's just the hippy in me but I just think it's sad in this day and age where we could easily support those that are less fortunate with basic healthcare that we turn our backs on them and have this attitude of "You don't deserve it because you didn't earn it".

Sure there are some slackers out there, but there are also some really hard working people that are in difficult situations that they can't dig out of.

It's too easy to say go to college, get a degree and everything will be ok. If only it were that easy.

Our priorities are really F'd up when we can't provide universal healthcare but we sure can find the money to bomb the shit out of other countries.[/quote]

That doesn't answer the fundamental question. Why is healthcare a right?

I've never heard someone come up with a logical answer. The only response is emotional in nature; something along the lines of because in this day in age, we just should. It's just wrong not to.

If that's the way people feel, let me ask you this: is it fair for us Americans to provide universal healthcare, in which some of you may be the recipient of hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of chemotherapy or surgical care, while people in Africa are starving to death? Isn't food a more immediate need than healthcare? Without food, you die in weeks. Why are we more deserving of healthcare than they're deserving of food? Because we're Americans??

No. None of it is a right. It's all a privelege. It's a privelege to live in the United States of America, where you have ample [B][U]opportunity[/U][/B] to earn enough money to put a roof over your head, give you clean drinking water, pay for your food, and pay for your healthcare. Do it your damn self, and stop whining about having it tough.

:rant:

Re: Canadian Healthcare from a Canadian...
 

[quote=firstdown;367486]Why then stop with health ins. How about food, water, jobs, etc.. Why is health ins a right?[/quote]

I suppose you can also ask the same question about every service the government provides. If the government is suppose look out for the well being of its citizens then how can one include national defense and exclude national health care?

Re: Canadian Healthcare from a Canadian...
 

[quote=saden1;367735]I suppose you can also ask the same question about every service the government provides. If the government is suppose look out for the well being of its citizens then how can one include national defense and exclude national health care?[/quote]
I'm for the federal gov. to reduce what they allready doing not increasing their role. Some one mention police and fire but those are city and state run.

Re: Canadian Healthcare from a Canadian...
 

[quote=Schneed10;367718]That doesn't answer the fundamental question. Why is healthcare a right?

I've never heard someone come up with a logical answer. The only response is emotional in nature; something along the lines of because in this day in age, we just should. It's just wrong not to.

If that's the way people feel, let me ask you this: is it fair for us Americans to provide universal healthcare, in which some of you may be the recipient of hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of chemotherapy or surgical care, while people in Africa are starving to death? Isn't food a more immediate need than healthcare? Without food, you die in weeks. Why are we more deserving of healthcare than they're deserving of food? Because we're Americans??

No. None of it is a right. It's all a privelege. It's a privelege to live in the United States of America, where you have ample [B][U]opportunity[/U][/B] to earn enough money to put a roof over your head, give you clean drinking water, pay for your food, and pay for your healthcare. [B]Do it your damn self, and stop whining about having it tough.[/B]

:rant:[/quote]

Again, it would be nice if it were always that easy.

Re: Canadian Healthcare from a Canadian...
 

Right is just a word...it doesn't mean anything. In this day and age where people are murdered everyday over seemingly nothing it's hard to say that anything is truly a right.

Rather, it's about collectively creating the best society that we can. I don't see how a world in which some of us lack adequate access to care is superior than the alternative.