Sunra To Gibbs: Turn Jason Campbell Loose!
 

The time has come to release the BEAST OF THE EAST. The fans are ready and the city is ready to see a consistent performance by the offense with Jason Campbell at the helm. But not the way we have witnessed in the last third and fourth quarters. Make all of the excuses you want, this man needs to make at least 40 attempts against the Patriots. It seems the more Campbell throws, the less INT's he has. No more conservative playcalling and depending on the defense to bail us out. Rather, stay agressive and in attack mode via 1991. It's time for some action!

Re: Sunra To Gibbs: Turn Jason Campbell Loose!
 

he threw 37 times against the Pack and look how that turned out for us...

I do believe if we don't get our running game going hard early that this game will be a domination. Establish the run then release Jason with the play action in the second half if needed. We are a running team. That's the only way we have a chance.

Re: Sunra To Gibbs: Turn Jason Campbell Loose!
 

[quote=Bdilla;368509]he threw 37 times against the Pack and look how that turned out for us...

I do believe if we don't get our running game going hard early that this game will be a domination. Establish the run then release Jason with the play action in the second half if needed. We are a running team. That's the only way we have a chance.[/quote]



Campbell looked pretty good in that game, the WRs couldnt hold on to the damn ball!

Re: Sunra To Gibbs: Turn Jason Campbell Loose!
 

I think we need to open things up a bit but if JC has 40+ attempts against New England, it will probably mean it was a long day for the Redskins.

Re: Sunra To Gibbs: Turn Jason Campbell Loose!
 

[quote=Bdilla;368509]he threw 37 times against the Pack and look how that turned out for us...

I do believe if we don't get our running game going hard early that this game will be a domination. Establish the run then release Jason with the play action in the second half if needed. We are a running team. That's the only way we have a chance.[/quote]

As someone just noted, the drops are what hurt us that game, not the play calls.

I see it the other way around - pass to set up the run. This o line cannot block well in the run game.

Re: Sunra To Gibbs: Turn Jason Campbell Loose!
 

[quote=freddyg12;368514]As someone just noted, the drops are what hurt us that game, not the play calls.

[B] I see it the other way around - pass to set up the run. This o line cannot block well in the run game.[/B][/quote]

I agree.. If we had all our O-line starters today, then I wld say run first but since we are patching up our O-line, so air first..

Re: Sunra To Gibbs: Turn Jason Campbell Loose!
 

[quote=Mattyk72;368513]I think we need to open things up a bit but if JC has 40+ attempts against New England, it will probably mean it was a long day for the Redskins.[/quote]


If that happens, they will have to add another scoreboard to get NE's score to fit.

Re: Sunra To Gibbs: Turn Jason Campbell Loose!
 

JC will air it out this game.

Re: Sunra To Gibbs: Turn Jason Campbell Loose!
 

NE's one weakness has been the run game. Look at the stats. While somewhat skewed b/c once they are way out in front they don't need to fret the runs, opponents have run well on them even early in the game. If our damn patchwork OLine lets us run on them and we can keep their passing game from rampaging, we can win this game.

All you guys calling for the pass first are playing into NE's hands and out of our strengths. Get into a shoot out and 1) We are fighting with a derringer to their MAC-10 and 2) You weaken our strength (defense) by keeping it out on the field - you know like in the New York, Green Bay and Arizona game.

Good ball control drives that end in scores and sound defense that doesn't give up the big play - that's how we were built to win and that's how we can win if we execute well.

I am not saying run run run but I am saying that, if we give up on the run, we will lose. If we pound it and mix in the passing, we can win. In fact, if this team plays the kind of game it was built to play and does it well - we WILL win.

Re: Sunra To Gibbs: Turn Jason Campbell Loose!
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;368550]NE's one weakness has been the run game. Look at the stats. While somewhat skewed b/c once they are way out in front they don't need to fret the runs, opponents have run well on them even early in the game. If our damn patchwork OLine lets us run on them and we can keep their passing game from rampaging, we can win this game.

All you guys calling for the pass first are playing into NE's hands and out of our strengths. Get into a shoot out and 1) We are fighting with a derringer to their MAC-10 and 2) You weaken our strength (defense) by keeping it out on the field - you know like in the New York, Green Bay and Arizona game.

Good ball control drives that end in scores and sound defense that doesn't give up the big play - that's how we were built to win and that's how we can win if we execute well.

I am not saying run run run but I am saying that, if we give up on the run, we will lose. If we pound it and mix in the passing, we can win. In fact, if this team plays the kind of game it was built to play and does it well - we WILL win.[/quote]
I'm not sure if ranked 9th in the run D is really a weakness but its the weakness point of their D if thats what we want to call it.

Re: Sunra To Gibbs: Turn Jason Campbell Loose!
 

That number is somewhat deceiving. I think it was Bank's who wrote the article but the average gain per attempt was relatively high (in the 5-6 yard range) during the first quarter or so. Even Miami was averaging over six in the first half. However, once your down by a million, who's still running the ball.

Truthfully, given their leads, I am surprised that they are as low as number nine. I would have expected better as teams pretty much abandon the run and pass to try and catch up.

Re: Sunra To Gibbs: Turn Jason Campbell Loose!
 

Just checked, the Pats have the 3rd fewest runs per game attempted against them. 21.
(Pittsburg w/ 20 and Tennessee(?!) w/17 have fewer).

The average gain is 4.4 which is tied for 24th.

Comparatively the Skins 23 have runs/game attempted against them which is 4th fewest (right behind the Pats).

The average gain is 3.5 and is tied for 4th w/ San Diego and behind Baltimore, Minnesota and Tennessee.

What all this means? not sure.

Re: Sunra To Gibbs: Turn Jason Campbell Loose!
 

On passing D: we have about the 8th most att/game but THE LOWEST yards/att ratio. That's a big stat. People pass against us alot but don't have big success.

And opposing passer have the lowest average passer ratings. (67.7)

Here is where I am getting the numbers:
[url=http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats;jsessionid=0A04ABCDD3A60DDFB5289457DD1DBDF0?offensiveStatisticCategory=null&archive=false&seasonType=REG&defensiveStatisticCategory=TEAM_PASSING&d-447263-o=2&conference=null&d-447263-s=PASSING_PASSER_RATING&d-447263-n=1&season=2007&qualified=false&Submit=Find&tabSeq=2&role=OPP&d-447263-p=1]NFL Stats: by Team Category[/url]

Re: Sunra To Gibbs: Turn Jason Campbell Loose!
 

Checking Game stats, NE is third in time of possesion and +8 on turnovers.

All this just reinforces my belief we need to run it, hold on to it and take some shots. This is a solid team, we aren't going to trick a win out of them.

Re: Sunra To Gibbs: Turn Jason Campbell Loose!
 

[QUOTE=JoeRedskin;368550]NE's one weakness has been the run game. Look at the stats. While somewhat skewed b/c once they are way out in front they don't need to fret the runs, opponents have run well on them even early in the game. If our damn patchwork OLine lets us run on them and we can keep their passing game from rampaging, we can win this game.

All you guys calling for the pass first are playing into NE's hands and out of our strengths. Get into a shoot out and 1) We are fighting with a derringer to their MAC-10 and 2) You weaken our strength (defense) by keeping it out on the field - you know like in the New York, Green Bay and Arizona game.

Good ball control drives that end in scores and sound defense that doesn't give up the big play - that's how we were built to win and that's how we can win if we execute well.

I am not saying run run run but I am saying that, if we give up on the run, we will lose. If we pound it and mix in the passing, we can win. In fact, if this team plays the kind of game it was built to play and does it well - we WILL win.[/QUOTE]

My main point was to allow JC to pass throughout four quarters as oppose to relying on the defense for half the game. The conventional Gibbs run first has not worked up to this point with none of our RB's running for 100yds. And what is more deplorable is that none of our WR's have a TD. If you are Belicheck, what do you see as the main target to shut the Redskins down? The run. The most successful game we've had is against the Lions who were 2nd in offense. We attacked in the air on the first drive. We balanced the game out and played a balanced game. Unfortunately, we don't have the line to run the ball, so the pass has to be our main drive.

Re: Sunra To Gibbs: Turn Jason Campbell Loose!
 

[QUOTE=freddyg12;368514]As someone just noted, the drops are what hurt us that game, not the play calls.

I see it the other way around - pass to set up the run. This o line cannot block well in the run game.[/QUOTE]

Freddg12 is right on! Pass to set up the run. If two O-Line starters go down on any NFL team, they would give up their helmets for a 4-2 record at this point in the season. That doesn't mean Al Saunders gives up on the run at any time during the game, however.

Re: Sunra To Gibbs: Turn Jason Campbell Loose!
 

[quote=Bdilla;368509]I do believe if we don't get our running game going hard early that this game will be a domination. Establish the run then release Jason with the play action in the second half if needed. We are a running team. That's the only way we have a chance.[/quote]

We've got no running game, and the sooner we all accept that, the better off we'll be. We're 24th in the leauge per attempt, which is no fluke. Without Jansen and Thomas to run behind, Betts and Portis become average RB's at best. How often do you see either them beat the opposing LB's on the outside? Sure, Portis could do that with ease 4 years ago, but to say he's lost a step would be putting it nicely. At this point, our best bet is to split running time between Portis and Sellers just enough to keep the passing game from getting too predictable. Gibbs' philosophy is run first, but this line ain't the Hogs, and Portis is no Riggo. We have to pass.

Re: Sunra To Gibbs: Turn Jason Campbell Loose!
 

[quote=Bdilla;368509]he threw 37 times against the Pack and look how that turned out for us...

I do believe if we don't get our running game going hard early that this game will be a domination. Establish the run then release Jason with the play action in the second half if needed. We are a running team. That's the only way we have a chance.[/quote]

What an eye-opening argument. We passed for 217 yds against the Pack and ran for 94 yd, averaging around 3 yds a carry as opposed to almost twice that per pass. Quite obviously, we're a running team and should stick to that.

Re: Sunra To Gibbs: Turn Jason Campbell Loose!
 

[quote=Hog1;368522]If that happens, they will have to add another scoreboard to get NE's score to fit.[/quote]

You're right. We should kill as much time as possible on the ground. We should run wide but never out of bounds, which stops the clock. I suggest we go into the single wing so snaps can go directly back to the tailback, and then after the play we can drag back to the huddle as slowly as possible. Someone responsible should wear a watch so we will be able to avoid snapping the ball untill the last second. Instead of faking injuries to stop the clock, we should fake health when injured. No penalties, passes, or field goal attempts. They stop the clock. Most of all, don't pass.

It's better to lose by three or four touchdowns than get blown out.

Re: Sunra To Gibbs: Turn Jason Campbell Loose!
 

[quote=SUNRA;368507]The time has come to release the BEAST OF THE EAST. The fans are ready and the city is ready to see a consistent performance by the offense with Jason Campbell at the helm. But not the way we have witnessed in the last third and fourth quarters. Make all of the excuses you want, this man needs to make at least 40 attempts against the Patriots. It seems the more Campbell throws, the less INT's he has. No more conservative playcalling and depending on the defense to bail us out. Rather, stay agressive and in attack mode via 1991. It's time for some action![/quote]

If JC throws it 40 times it's going to be a long day for us. We are just not that type of offense yet. We just need to be more aggresssive than last week. But not too aggressive.

Re: Sunra To Gibbs: Turn Jason Campbell Loose!
 

[QUOTE=Crazyhorse1;368612]You're right. We should kill as much time as possible on the ground. We should run wide but never out of bounds, which stops the clock. I suggest we go into the single wing so snaps can go directly back to the tailback, and then after the play we can drag back to the huddle as slowly as possible. Someone responsible should wear a watch so we will be able to avoid snapping the ball untill the last second. Instead of faking injuries to stop the clock, we should fake health when injured. No penalties, passes, or field goal attempts. They stop the clock. Most of all, don't pass.

It's better to lose by three or four touchdowns than get blown out.[/QUOTE]

Words fail me. :confused:

Re: Sunra To Gibbs: Turn Jason Campbell Loose!
 

JoeRedskin -- I must say I disagree. I want a shootout. That would assume we can actually score points, unfortunately this isn't the case once the 2nd half hits. If we want to beat NE, we have to score. We have a defense that will be able to hold NE a bit, but we can't rely on them to win the game. We need to score points. I feel we'll have an easier time passing with a quick passing game rather than pounding our heads into a wall with a beatup line and running it.

I'm not saying abandon the run, we need to run some -- but we need to make the conversion to what most teams in the NFL do now. Throw to setup the run. I want to see quick drops and passes by Campbell. Don't give their pass rush time to get there. 3 steps, ball out. Hit that, run the ball, high percentage passes. If we hit on our haunches and run a ton -- we'll get so far behind coming back is futile.

Re: Sunra To Gibbs: Turn Jason Campbell Loose!
 

Two things I don't understand:

1. If our O-Line is in such disarray that we can't run-block, how is that a good argument for passing?

2. Pass to set up the run? I never understood this. IMO, the main reason for running to set up the pass is: if your runs are not successful (i.e.: 1-2 yards/att), that still works to get the defense in the box. If you are not successful passing (i.e.: a bunch of incompletions), that doesn't help set up the run very well. You have to be successful passing to set up the run. You don't necessarily need to be successful running to set up the pass. IMO.

Re: Sunra To Gibbs: Turn Jason Campbell Loose!
 

[QUOTE=GhettoDogAllStars;368657]Two things I don't understand:

1. If our O-Line is in such disarray that we can't run-block, how is that a good argument for passing?

2. Pass to set up the run? I never understood this. IMO, the main reason for running to set up the pass is: if your runs are not successful (i.e.: 1-2 yards/att), that still works to get the defense in the box. If you are not successful passing (i.e.: a bunch of incompletions), that doesn't help set up the run very well. You have to be successful passing to set up the run. You don't necessarily need to be successful running to set up the pass. IMO.[/QUOTE]

Several people has posted that pass oriented offense is not the Redskins, and we need to stick to who we are. Read any of the articles in the Post concerning the failures of the offense and it clearly points to the horrid playcalling and conservative style (run and grind it out) of Gibbs which has not worked and will not work if he continues to rely on the defense.
Jason Campbell has to be given the red light to make plays with his arm and feet. Gibbs must accept the reality that if eight are in the box, do not run the ball. Throw the ball short, medium or long range, but just throw the ball to someone with single coverage. That's why the Patriots are undefeated. This is not 1983. And no RB we have is Riggins or Joe Washington. We've got to adjust to what the defense is giving us.

Re: Sunra To Gibbs: Turn Jason Campbell Loose!
 

[QUOTE=SUNRA;368804]Several people has posted that pass oriented offense is not the Redskins, and we need to stick to who we are. Read any of the articles in the Post concerning the failures of the offense and it clearly points to the horrid playcalling and conservative style (run and grind it out) of Gibbs which has not worked and will not work if he continues to rely on the defense.
Jason Campbell has to be given the red light to make plays with his arm and feet. Gibbs must accept the reality that if eight are in the box, do not run the ball. Throw the ball short, medium or long range, but just throw the ball to someone with single coverage. That's why the Patriots are undefeated. This is not 1983. And no RB we have is Riggins or Joe Washington. We've got to adjust to what the defense is giving us.[/QUOTE]

Given the red light to make plays? Why does that not sound right?

Re: Sunra To Gibbs: Turn Jason Campbell Loose!
 

[quote=SUNRA;368804]Several people has posted that pass oriented offense is not the Redskins, and we need to stick to who we are. Read any of the articles in the Post concerning the failures of the offense and it clearly points to the horrid playcalling and conservative style (run and grind it out) of Gibbs which has not worked and will not work if he continues to rely on the defense.
Jason Campbell has to be given the red light to make plays with his arm and feet. Gibbs must accept the reality that if eight are in the box, do not run the ball. Throw the ball short, medium or long range, but just throw the ball to someone with single coverage. That's why the Patriots are undefeated. This is not 1983. And no RB we have is Riggins or Joe Washington. We've got to adjust to what the defense is giving us.[/quote]Who's been playing us 8 in the box?

In fact, when was the last game going back through the Gibbs-era that we saw consistently 8 in the box.

It's never happened.

Re: Sunra To Gibbs: Turn Jason Campbell Loose!
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;368657]Two things I don't understand:

1. If our O-Line is in such disarray that we can't run-block, how is that a good argument for passing?[/quote]Because the Quarterback can take on the responsibility of the offensive line in the passing game. A good QB (like Campbell) always knows how much time he has to get rid of the football.

Now if people start missing their protections and someone comes free, the QB can't really do anything except get rid of the ball. But even with an untalented offensive line, a passing offense can still be successful if the QB does an outstanding job.

Truth is that a QB is more likely to make a mistake when you get pressure on him, so you want to cut down on the passing game with no line, but it makes more sense than running behind no one. Admittedly, this is very very hard for a young QB to do, and still be successful, but most veterans don't seem to have a problem with it.

Re: Sunra To Gibbs: Turn Jason Campbell Loose!
 

The Redskins need to run out of passing formations and pass out of running formations.

Also Jason is getting a little Brunellish with holding the ball. We need to play loose and let it fly. No one expects us to win anyway. Go for it on 4th and 5 from midfield. Don't just go for it, throw it in the endzone. It's like the George Costanza thing. Do the opposite.

[yt]IjXUgxR4Z10[/yt]

Re: Sunra To Gibbs: Turn Jason Campbell Loose!
 

I would love to see some draws and screens to Big Mike, he could be our mvp this game, lots of those quick hitters to the left side. We are a running team everyone knows that joe gibbs style, but we cant be this game, we need to be unpredictable i say give big mike 15-20 touches limit portis and betts carries and let Mike beat them up on the inside to keep them honest, and make them tired. This game (if we want to win) we must be able run the ball. We do not want to get into a shootout w/ NE

Re: Sunra To Gibbs: Turn Jason Campbell Loose!
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;368817]Who's been playing us 8 in the box?

In fact, when was the last game going back through the Gibbs-era that we saw consistently 8 in the box.

It's never happened.[/QUOTE]

If the Giants and Packers didn't have 8 in the box, they sure as hell played like they did. Moreover, they definitely beat us by shutting down the run. Either way, we have no running game if Portis is getting most of the reps.

Re: Sunra To Gibbs: Turn Jason Campbell Loose!
 

[quote=skinsfan69;368623]If JC throws it 40 times it's going to be a long day for us. We are just not that type of offense yet. We just need to be more aggresssive than last week. But not too aggressive.[/quote]

Now if he throws it 40 times and completes 30 for 4 tds and no ints that would be great.

Re: Sunra To Gibbs: Turn Jason Campbell Loose!
 

[quote=Bdilla;368509]he threw 37 times against the Pack and look how that turned out for us...

I do believe if we don't get our running game going hard early that this game will be a domination. Establish the run then release Jason with the play action in the second half if needed. We are a running team. That's the only way we have a chance.[/quote]



that was the recievers fault that we lost he had both of our TDs 3 if lloyd holds on to the ball

Re: Sunra To Gibbs: Turn Jason Campbell Loose!
 

[QUOTE=Darrell_Green_28;368969]Now if he throws it 40 times and completes 30 for 4 tds and no ints that would be great.[/QUOTE]
That's the kind of optimism we need to hear.

Re: Sunra To Gibbs: Turn Jason Campbell Loose!
 

[QUOTE=JoeRedskin;368583]Just checked, the Pats have the 3rd fewest runs per game attempted against them. 21.
(Pittsburg w/ 20 and Tennessee(?!) w/17 have fewer).

The average gain is 4.4 which is tied for 24th.

Comparatively the Skins 23 have runs/game attempted against them which is 4th fewest (right behind the Pats).

The average gain is 3.5 and is tied for 4th w/ San Diego and behind Baltimore, Minnesota and Tennessee.

What all this means? not sure.[/QUOTE]

It means 2 things...teams dont run on NE because they are playing catch up
teams haven't run on the Skins because most of the team so far we played are passing teams.

Our D still hasn't proven they can handle a consistant running attack....nor has NE...I dont see either happening this week because of our crappy line and their injuries in the running game.

Re: Sunra To Gibbs: Turn Jason Campbell Loose!
 

[QUOTE=SUNRA;368595]My main point was to allow JC to pass throughout four quarters as oppose to relying on the defense for half the game. The conventional Gibbs run first has not worked up to this point with none of our RB's running for 100yds. And what is more deplorable is that none of our WR's have a TD. If you are Belicheck, what do you see as the main target to shut the Redskins down? The run. The most successful game we've had is against the Lions who were 2nd in offense. We attacked in the air on the first drive. We balanced the game out and played a balanced game. Unfortunately, we don't have the line to run the ball, so the pass has to be our main drive.[/QUOTE]

Totally agree.
I say, pass to set up the run too...due to our line problems.
Heck...use shotgun and do draws if you need to...why not go no huddle occasionally?

Re: Sunra To Gibbs: Turn Jason Campbell Loose!
 

[QUOTE=skinsWill;368901]I would love to see some draws and screens to Big Mike, he could be our mvp this game, lots of those quick hitters to the left side. We are a running team everyone knows that joe gibbs style, but we cant be this game, we need to be unpredictable i say give big mike 15-20 touches limit portis and betts carries and let Mike beat them up on the inside to keep them honest, and make them tired. This game (if we want to win) we must be able run the ball. We do not want to get into a shootout w/ NE[/QUOTE]

I like the unpredicatble nature of your ideas...you just have the wrong player for that. Sellers gets killed on traditional screens because he has no first move...the same would apply with a draw.

He is great in the middle, as a blocker and even as a TE....just dont expect him to juke anyone...he cant..
I love the guy.

Re: Sunra To Gibbs: Turn Jason Campbell Loose!
 

Okay, lets assume those of us calling for a balanced attack that eats up the clock aren't advocating a return to the single wing (Yes, that was brilliant sarcasm crazy, pat yourself on the back for your insight).

Rather, we are advocating a balanced attack that takes shots both in the 10-15 yard range and deep down the field. But relies on a run game that, hopefully, runs straight at their LB's to minimize their pursuit ability. Draw them down and then go over them. - Daseal, mixing in a short pass is fine but, again, IMO, that plays into the strength of their defense, the LB's and fast corners. Plus it keeps the plays in front of Harrison and lets him play to his strength rather to than to his weakness which is deep coverage.

Trick plays, gadget plays - these work against undisciplined teams with poor pursuit. Further, spreading the field and relying on the passing game, as someone else said puts most of the offense on Campbell. He has to make the right reads play in and play out. While I like JC and think he is bound for great (not just good) things - I am not confident that he is, at this point, exerienced enough to figure out all the schemes Belicheck can throw against him. That leads to turnovers. Chuck and duck didn't work for Spurrier (or any other coach) and I seriously doubt it's gonna work Sunday.

Also, one of the reasons their defense is so good, IMO, is b/c it is well rested. NE leads the league in time of possesion.

Amazing - NE scores points by controlling the clock and winning the turnover battle. I wonder if JG has ever tried that??

Re: Sunra To Gibbs: Turn Jason Campbell Loose!
 

Well, the last time we beat New England was chuck and duck and that was a super bowl year...