Forget the Game, what about the F...ing INJURIES?!
 

Honestly, I'm over the game. They won. They're obviously a better team.

Does the running the score up thing piss me off? Sure it does.

But seriously, are we the most cursed team ever when it comes to injuries? We make a seriously play at the playoffs this year and then we lose Jansen. Oops, that's OK, Wade can fill in.

Oh damn, we just lost Thomas. Well, this is starting to suck, but we're going to be OK.

Hamstrings, hamstrings, hamstrings. Groins, groins, groins.

But we're playing OK anyway, we're 4-2, going into New England. Rogers goes down. McIntosh is constantly going out with pinched nerves. Not to wish injury on ANYONE, and not saying that I would enjoy that, but for once can we see fucking Brady go down with a strained shoulder? I mean our guys are laying wood on people and they're the ones getting hurt.

It seems like this is a constant cycle. Sure, injuries are part of the game, but they seem to be so freaking crucial when it comes to the Skins. Other teams might lose a DT or something. We lose the whole right side of our line, our starting CB, and MANY players are nicked up.

Just so sick of EVERY TIME we play a game seeing another starter go down with some kind of injury.

Re: Forget the Game, what about the F...ing INJURIES?!
 

Yeah, the injuries are really making me sick. Prior to the season I thought that the main thing that would keep us out of the playoffs would be injuries.
I was worried that if people like Moss, Portis, Campbell, or Taylor got injured we'd be in a lot of trouble. While that hasn't really been the case, although there have been problems with them, the role players getting hurt are by far our biggest problem.

Midway through the 3rd yesterday my buddy and I were both saying that we wanted Campbell out because the right side of our line was basically useless. On that last forced fumble Wade was just standing there as Vrabel when right around him and it was clear that he was just in over his head.

Re: Forget the Game, what about the F...ing INJURIES?!
 

The "don't complain about the injuries" police are lurking.

Re: Forget the Game, what about the F...ing INJURIES?!
 

Oh, I'm not saying this is an excuse for the way this team is playing (even though I'm sure it contributes). I'm just saying, CAN WE GET A FREAKING BREAK ON THE INJURY FRONT FOR JUST ONE DAMN SEASON?

Re: Forget the Game, what about the F...ing INJURIES?!
 

TOTALLY healthy, we still wouldn't have won yesterday.

But I bet we WOULD be 6-1 had we been healthy all year and that would have taken a lot of the sting out of this game.

Re: Forget the Game, what about the F...ing INJURIES?!
 

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know if we have had a single game this season where a starter hasn't gone out with an injury?

Re: Forget the Game, what about the F...ing INJURIES?!
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;370578]TOTALLY healthy, we still wouldn't have won yesterday.

But I bet we WOULD be 6-1 had we been healthy all year and that would have taken a lot of the sting out of this game.[/quote]

Yeah I agree, healthy or not we still get whooped yesterday.

Just when it seems that we're healing up, we get bit more by the injury bug. I don't get it either, seems that we just can't catch a break with injuries, no pun intended.

Re: Forget the Game, what about the F...ing INJURIES?!
 

[quote=mheisig;370581]Just out of curiosity, does anyone know if we have had a single game this season where a starter hasn't gone out with an injury?[/quote]

Probably not, and that's not the frustrating thing. It's what Matty said. It's the fact that right when we start getting healthy, we lose another key player.

Say Thomas plays against the Seahawks a couple years ago, we're playing in the Super Bowl if he does...

Re: Forget the Game, what about the F...ing INJURIES?!
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;370588]Say Thomas plays against the Seahawks a couple years ago, we're playing in the Super Bowl if he does...[/quote]I wouldn't say that.

The Seahawks were better than us that year and they beat us pretty good in their house. One player probably would not have closed that gap.

Re: Forget the Game, what about the F...ing INJURIES?!
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;370576]Oh, I'm not saying this is an excuse for the way this team is playing (even though I'm sure it contributes). I'm just saying, CAN WE GET A FREAKING BREAK ON THE INJURY FRONT FOR JUST ONE DAMN SEASON?[/quote]

We were basically 100% all of 2005. We can't complain too much about injuries. Seems like basically every team in the league has been rocked by injuries this year.

Re: Forget the Game, what about the F...ing INJURIES?!
 

Not having Smoot AND Rogers for just about the entire game against New England was, to me, one of the biggest-if not the biggest reason we lost. And then throw in losing Rocky midway through the game.

Those injuries were huge, and hopefully the Rogers'one isn't as serious as feared.

Re: Forget the Game, what about the F...ing INJURIES?!
 

[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection;370565]Honestly, I'm over the game. They won. They're obviously a better team.

Does the running the score up thing piss me off? Sure it does.

But seriously, are we the most cursed team ever when it comes to injuries? We make a seriously play at the playoffs this year and then we lose Jansen. Oops, that's OK, Wade can fill in.

Oh damn, we just lost Thomas. Well, this is starting to suck, but we're going to be OK.

Hamstrings, hamstrings, hamstrings. Groins, groins, groins.

But we're playing OK anyway, we're 4-2, going into New England. Rogers goes down. McIntosh is constantly going out with pinched nerves. [B]Not to wish injury on ANYONE, and not saying that I would enjoy that, but for once can we see fucking Brady go down with a strained shoulder?[/B] I mean our guys are laying wood on people and they're the ones getting hurt.

It seems like this is a constant cycle. Sure, injuries are part of the game, but they seem to be so freaking crucial when it comes to the Skins. Other teams might lose a DT or something. We lose the whole right side of our line, our starting CB, and MANY players are nicked up.

Just so sick of EVERY TIME we play a game seeing another starter go down with some kind of injury.[/QUOTE]

This has got to be the line of the year

Re: Forget the Game, what about the F...ing INJURIES?!
 

Well, at least they aren't going down for preventable injuries. I would like to be able to blame the conditioning staff or something, but if someone is falling down, it seems like we are more than happy to have a leg, or knee in the way. Just can't get a break, (no pun intended).

Re: Forget the Game, what about the F...ing INJURIES?!
 

it's easier to get hurt when you are getting run over, than when you are running over someone else. We are getting physically dominated

Re: Forget the Game, what about the F...ing INJURIES?!
 

[quote=SmootSmack;370598]Not having Smoot AND Rogers for just about the entire game against New England was, to me, one of the biggest-if not the biggest reason we lost. And then throw in losing Rocky midway through the game.

Those injuries were huge, and hopefully the Rogers' one isn't as serious as feared.[/quote]The defense did pretty well all things considered, I thought.

Look, we stuck to what we do best, which is play soft pass coverage, and come up and rock ya after the catch. We didn't do this poorly, and Brady actually struggled in third down situations yesterday. I mean, you saw him taking off and running on a few occasions and that's pretty much his last option.

The DL was pretty much non existent, save a great play from Daniels. I guess that's what I expected from these guys coming it. Montgomery looked human, Griffin looked old, and Andre Carter looked like....Andre Carter.

I mean we pretty much had to rely on Brady making a mistake, and he didn't so give him credit.

One thing that I thought the front seven failed at was diagnosing certain one read plays. Like those one lineman screens. The action of the running back makes the play obvious, but we weren't diagnosing it.

Leigh Torrence didn't do all that bad playing in place of Rogers. It will be interesting to see how Smoot does in the starting role now, because this will probably be the most accurate measure of how much Carlos Rogers' improved this offseason is how much our pass D misses him.

David Macklin is awful though so I hope we can find a CB who can play the nickel role. Until then, Prioleau might have to fill it.

Re: Forget the Game, what about the F...ing INJURIES?!
 

Yes injuries have killed us but I agree we would have lost the NWE game anyway but what I was looking at Roger's injury & McIntosh were pretty huge along with Smoot on defense, offensively everybody knows the o-line. Honestly with the injuries we might not be able to make the playoffs. I think GW can have the defense back on track but if we can't run the football or move the ball threw the air we are doomed.

Re: Forget the Game, what about the F...ing INJURIES?!
 

I'll answer my own question. Below is a list of players who went out of a game with an injury, taken from NFL.com. They don't seem to list every injury during the game, just "notables."

Week 1: Vernon Fox (sprained groin)
Week 2: Randy Thomas (torn triceps)
Week 3: Santana Moss (strained groin)
Week 4: bye
Week 5: Marcus Washington (hamstring)
Week 6: Todd Wade (groin), Casey Rabach (groin), Stephon Heyer ()
Week 7: Rock Cartwright (quadriceps)
Week 8: Carlos Rogers (unknown)

Here's a list of every Redskin player that has appeared on the injury list at one time or another during the first 8 games, the injury and the number of appearances on the list.

Cody Boyd (shoulder) x 2
Khary Campbell (hamstring)
Clinton Portis (knee) x 2
Chris Samuels (knee)
Todd Wade (shoulder) (groin) x 2
Marcus Washington (elbow) (hamstring) x 4
Vernon Fox (groin) x 2
Phillip Daniels (foot) x 3
Pierson Prioleau (hamstring)
Fred Smoot (hamstring) (illness) x 5
Todd Yoder (ankle)
Santana Moss (groin) (hamstring) x 4
Randy Thomas (triceps) x 5
Brandon Lloyd (shin)
Sean Taylor (knee)
Mike Sellers (heel) x 2
Antwaan Randle El (hamstring)
Stephon Heyer (hamstring) x 2
Shawn Springs (family)
Casey Rabach (groin) x 2
Pete Kendall (hamstring)
Rock Cartwright (quadricep)
Carlos Rogers (knee)

I'm not entirely sure how this compares to other teams in the league. Obviously just getting listed on the injury list doesn't mean the player didn't play, just that at some point they were banged up enough to get listed.

For reference, I noticed that the Rams have, on several occasions, listed 13 players on their injured list, and the Colts seem to have a pretty large running list as well.

Does anyone find the number of hamstring (7) and groin (4) injuries to be unusually high? I guess I kind of expect knee injuries, shoulder injuries, etc. and the occasional flu or family death, but the hamstrings and groin problems are rampant.

Re: Forget the Game, what about the F...ing INJURIES?!
 

Unfortunately, injury reports are a team's way of playing cat and mouse with the rest of the league...so it's hard to go by those without knowing who exactly is hurt as bad as the report says...

Re: Forget the Game, what about the F...ing INJURIES?!
 

[QUOTE=BDBohnzie;370658]Unfortunately, injury reports are a team's way of playing cat and mouse with the rest of the league...so it's hard to go by those without knowing who exactly is hurt as bad as the report says...[/QUOTE]

Yeah, that occurred to me. I'd still say that a good 80% or more of those on that list are legit.

Re: Forget the Game, what about the F...ing INJURIES?!
 

I agree that the injury story is the 2nd story line of the game. I cannot believe that we've now lost Carlos. Even though a lot of people don't like the guy I think he's played pretty well this year and is certainly a better player than Leigh Torrence. These aren't just role players getting hurt, these are top flight guys. Completely unbelievable. If it is an ACL that would put him out the better part of 12 months and it typically takes two years to fully recover from that injury and return to playing at the level you were prior to hurting your knee. If that is the case you're talking about Rogers missing at least 16 games and pretty much being out until this time next season. Unreal.

Re: Forget the Game, what about the F...ing INJURIES?!
 

[quote=SmootSmack;370598]Not having Smoot AND Rogers for just about the entire game against New England was, to me, one of the biggest-if not the biggest reason we lost. And then throw in losing Rocky midway through the game.

Those injuries were huge, and hopefully the Rogers'one isn't as serious as feared.[/quote]

So you're saying that if Smoot and Rogers were in there we wouldn't have lost? I think they may have made a 1 or 2 TD difference in the game AT BEST, which still would have made it a blowout.

Redskins.com is saying Rogers MCL suffered a "significant" injury. I think we all know that means it's torn. And they said his ACL may be injured as well. To me that sounds like fancy language for a shredded knee.

This just sucks. Totally friggin sucks. Oh well, there's a reason we signed all those D backs in the offseason. Time for Torrence and Macklin to step up.

I feel so embarassed after that game. Hopefully our team takes this VERY personally, and goes out and plays with a serious chip on their shoulder. I hope we pound the Jets. If they can't score a TD against Buffalo....

Re: Forget the Game, what about the F...ing INJURIES?!
 

Another point is that our depth will only get worst in the coming years because of the way our contracts are set up. Next couple years is when the wideouts will be getting big bucks. We will need to cut them or other people.

Re: Forget the Game, what about the F...ing INJURIES?!
 

[QUOTE=GMScud;370726]So you're saying that if Smoot and Rogers were in there we wouldn't have lost? I think they may have made a 1 or 2 TD difference in the game AT BEST, which still would have made it a blowout.

Redskins.com is saying Rogers MCL suffered a "significant" injury. I think we all know that means it's torn. And they said his ACL may be injured as well. To me that sounds like fancy language for a shredded knee.

This just sucks. Totally friggin sucks. Oh well, there's a reason we signed all those D backs in the offseason. Time for Torrence and Macklin to step up.

I feel so embarassed after that game. Hopefully our team takes this VERY personally, and goes out and plays with a serious chip on their shoulder. I hope we pound the Jets. If they can't score a TD against Buffalo....[/QUOTE]

I think if they were both in the game, and Campbell didn't have those two costly fumbles yes we could have won.

Re: Forget the Game, what about the F...ing INJURIES?!
 

[quote=SmootSmack;370751]I think if they were both in the game, and Campbell didn't have those two costly fumbles yes we could have won.[/quote]

Three fumbles. :( :( :(

One interception also. :(

Re: Forget the Game, what about the F...ing INJURIES?!
 

Yeah but that fumble that was returned for a TD by Colvin, and the one we had after we had just recovered a fumble and were at their 23 yard line with 2 minutes left in the half were the ones that stood out for me.

Not even the first one that much really, but the second one absolutely. Imagine going into the half down just 17-7. That wouldn't have been so bad.

Re: Forget the Game, what about the F...ing INJURIES?!
 

No doubt. This injury bug shit, really sucks!

Starting to look like a repeat of last season. With the exception we do at least have better depth....FOR NOW...

Re: Forget the Game, what about the F...ing INJURIES?!
 

Very tough, but that's life "up here" as Gibbs puts it. We need Smoot back without Rogers. Hopefully Rocky is OK, but the pinched nerve stuff has been recurring, which is worrisome. No comment on the oline stuff, beyond wow.

The nagging stuff on offense has hurt as well--Santana looks a step slower and Portis certainly looks a step slower. Both those guys games' are predicated on speed rather than power, so it really hurts them. And ARE was slowed as well.

But ack, we've got to beat the Jets. And it's not like we're alone on the injury thing. Other teams are hurting bad as well--the Jets put Vilma on IR this week, for example. Everything is working for the Pats--reminds me of 91 where I don't recall a serious injury.

We need to build some depth in the draft--that's the worst thing about our FA strategy, IMO--we lose the draft picks that provide decent young backups. Undrafted FAs work at times, but not enough to sustain things. And "vet minimum" guys are on the market for a reason.

Re: Forget the Game, what about the F...ing INJURIES?!
 

Looking more and more like Rogers is done for the year, from all I hear. I imagine they'll call up either Westbrook or Eubanks from the practice squad. Curious as to which one it will be.

Either way, it's time for Smoot to start backing up the smack.

Re: Forget the Game, what about the F...ing INJURIES?!
 

I was just thinking it would be interesting to try and quantify in numerical terms the losses this team has sustained to key personnel throughout the end of last season and beginning of this one, as compared to any other team.

Perhaps the problem lies not in the number of injuries or even the specifics of who got injured, but that our talent isn't well distributed among the different strings of players.

Obviously first-stringers are supposed to be better than second-stringers, but it really does seem like we are a top-heavy team who has a huge dropoff in talent level (or experience, or both) beyond our starters. I'm sure this is true of many teams but it seems like the great ones, the successful ones, do not have nearly as much of a drop when players go out.

Indy, for example, lost Edgerrin James and Dominic Rhodes to free agency, Marvin Harrison to injuries, plus at least a few other notables on defense, to say nothing of any line players they may have had injuries. And I think they have managed to win a few games this year.

Re: Forget the Game, what about the F...ing INJURIES?!
 

[QUOTE=dgack;370937]I was just thinking it would be interesting to try and quantify in numerical terms the losses this team has sustained to key personnel throughout the end of last season and beginning of this one, as compared to any other team.

Perhaps the problem lies not in the number of injuries or even the specifics of who got injured, but that our talent isn't well distributed among the different strings of players.

Obviously first-stringers are supposed to be better than second-stringers, but it really does seem like we are a top-heavy team who has a huge dropoff in talent level (or experience, or both) beyond our starters. I'm sure this is true of many teams but it seems like the great ones, the successful ones, do not have nearly as much of a drop when players go out.

Indy, for example, lost Edgerrin James and Dominic Rhodes to free agency, Marvin Harrison to injuries, plus at least a few other notables on defense, to say nothing of any line players they may have had injuries. And I think they have managed to win a few games this year.[/QUOTE]

That would be interesting data to have. It doesn't appear that NFL.com has any real access to it, if they even have a model for it.

I think there's also a tendency to overly stress the big-name, skill positions like WR, RB and QB and not pay enough attention to the less glamorous offensive line.

Our offensive line has been decimated. At one point the only original starter we had was Chris Samuels. That's almost unprecedented as far as I know. The Rams O-line has taken a big hit this year and look where they are.

I think you can evaluate skill position players on their individual merits. CP not doing well in open space beyond the LOS, Moss simply dropping everything that comes his way, those are individual skills to measure and analyze.

CP having a low YPC is effected by a huge number of variables, I'd argue the offensive line being the most important. JC's overall performance is obviously going to take a huge hit. He's fumbling a lot - why? Because he's getting hit a lot, which is the offensive line once again. Yeah he holds on a little too long and yeah he needs to just tuck that thing in when he feels pressure, but ultimately what do you expect when he's getting pressured all day long?

I'm rambling, but my point is I think maybe we underestimate that offensive line problems and the impact on every other aspect of the game.

Re: Forget the Game, what about the F...ing INJURIES?!
 

[quote=dgack;370937]I was just thinking it would be interesting to try and quantify in numerical terms the losses this team has sustained to key personnel throughout the end of last season and beginning of this one, as compared to any other team.

Perhaps the problem lies not in the number of injuries or even the specifics of who got injured, but that our talent isn't well distributed among the different strings of players.

Obviously first-stringers are supposed to be better than second-stringers, but it really does seem like we are a top-heavy team who has a huge dropoff in talent level (or experience, or both) beyond our starters. I'm sure this is true of many teams but it seems like the great ones, the successful ones, do not have nearly as much of a drop when players go out.

Indy, for example, lost Edgerrin James and Dominic Rhodes to free agency, Marvin Harrison to injuries, plus at least a few other notables on defense, to say nothing of any line players they may have had injuries. And I think they have managed to win a few games this year.[/quote]I'm going to try to do this because I'm pretty interested also. If I come up with something substancial, I'll open a thread for it.

Re: Forget the Game, what about the F...ing INJURIES?!
 

[quote=SmootSmack;370751]I think if they were both in the game, and Campbell didn't have those two costly fumbles yes we could have won.[/quote]

I don't know if I agree that we would have won, but if we had scored and not fumbled, and gone into halftime 17-7, that would have made a HUGE difference.

I just hope we can compartmentalize this loss and move on. If we get down on ourselves and let this carry over, it could be disastrous.

Re: Forget the Game, what about the F...ing INJURIES?!
 

[quote=GTripp0012;370968]I'm going to try to do this because I'm pretty interested also. If I come up with something substancial, I'll open a thread for it.[/quote]

So it's pretty easy to quantify the loss of production out of a back. On the defensive side, you should be able to quantify loss of production by taking the inverse (i.e., the loss of a negative force is a positive one). So big plays given up, takeaways, etc.

How to quantify the effects of an O-Line? Sacks, YPC average, anything else?

Re: Forget the Game, what about the F...ing INJURIES?!
 

[quote=dgack;371003]So it's pretty easy to quantify the loss of production out of a back. On the defensive side, you should be able to quantify loss of production by taking the inverse (i.e., the loss of a negative force is a positive one). So big plays given up, takeaways, etc.

How to quantify the effects of an O-Line? Sacks, YPC average, anything else?[/quote]I'd have to compute the value for every player in a numerical way. It can be done of course, but there'd be a bit of subjectivity it in.

I wouldn't be able to do it for all teams, just the Redskins and a few others.

If you have a few teams you'd like me to compare to, just name em off.

Re: Forget the Game, what about the F...ing INJURIES?!
 

I might be able to help run some of the numbers. What's your data source?

Re: Forget the Game, what about the F...ing INJURIES?!
 

[quote=dgack;371020]I might be able to help run some of the numbers. What's your data source?[/quote]I'd probably use DPAR (Defense adjusted points above replacement) since Football Outsiders already scales their numbers to equal points in a football game.

[url=http://www.footballoutsiders.com/]FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Football analysis and NFL stats for the Moneyball era - Authors of Pro Football Prospectus 2007[/url]

For the offensive lines I'd probably come up with a total value for the line, and attempt to assign a responsibility to each position, but that could get real messy real fast. OLs are always tough to apply numbers to.

I think you could find each players contribution if you averaged their four most recent seasons. That would give a good idea.

Re: Forget the Game, what about the F...ing INJURIES?!
 

get over it were not that good. If we played in the AFC we would be one of the worst teams, but in the NFC we have a chance at 8-8. We played with a professional team on sunday and got our ass handed to us.

Re: Forget the Game, what about the F...ing INJURIES?!
 

[QUOTE=dgack;370937]I was just thinking it would be interesting to try and quantify in numerical terms the losses this team has sustained to key personnel throughout the end of last season and beginning of this one, as compared to any other team.

Perhaps the problem lies not in the number of injuries or even the specifics of who got injured, but that our talent isn't well distributed among the different strings of players.

Obviously first-stringers are supposed to be better than second-stringers, but it really does seem like we are a top-heavy team who has a huge dropoff in talent level (or experience, or both) beyond our starters. I'm sure this is true of many teams but it seems like the great ones, the successful ones, do not have nearly as much of a drop when players go out.

Indy, for example, lost Edgerrin James and Dominic Rhodes to free agency, Marvin Harrison to injuries, plus at least a few other notables on defense, to say nothing of any line players they may have had injuries. And I think they have managed to win a few games this year.[/QUOTE]

True enough. However, we are not Indy and JC is no Peyton Manning. For a team that relies on it's O-line to pound the rock, losing the starting right side of the line is devastating. Call it an excuse and say that we should have more depth if you like, but I cannot help but think that this team which ran the ball so well in 2005 and 2006 despite the lack of a passing attack is having a lot of woes because of its inability to run the ball behind a patchwork line.

Re: Forget the Game, what about the F...ing INJURIES?!
 

[QUOTE=CHIEF CHUCKING MY SPEAR;371085]get over it were not that good. If we played in the AFC we would be one of the worst teams, but in the NFC we have a chance at 8-8. We played with a professional team on sunday and got our ass handed to us.[/QUOTE]

We'd be one game out of first in the AFC North and in first place in the AFC West

Re: Forget the Game, what about the F...ing INJURIES?!
 

[QUOTE=CHIEF CHUCKING MY SPEAR;371085]get over it were not that good. If we played in the AFC we would be one of the worst teams, but in the NFC we have a chance at 8-8. We played with a professional team on sunday and got our ass handed to us.[/QUOTE]

:bs:

Where's the compassion for your favorite team? Ugh...nevermind.