WP article: Time for Gibbs to walk away?
 

[url=http://washingtonpost.com]washingtonpost.com - nation, world, technology and Washington area news and headlines[/url]

I hate to agree with the guy, but.....he does make good points.

Re: WP artilce: Time for Gibbs to walk away?
 

Everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion, but Gibbs walked into a firestorm and has already taken a franchise to the playoffs once in his second tenure. The NFL is a much tougher place than it used to be, and I think that Joe knows what is best for Joe, but he has already put the Redskins in a far better place as a franchise than it was before he got here. And in addition, sorry but injuries do play a hell of a role in whether or not you are in contention down the line, especially when a lot of teams including the Patriots are built around the offensive line to start. :) So there is my opinion, maybe our writers at the Washington Post, though I respect them Shapiro, Wilbon, Kornheiser should think a little more about not trying to make such a splash with there somewhat meddling articles especially this week.

Re: WP artilce: Time for Gibbs to walk away?
 

I don't agree with this article. He makes a good point about hiring a GM but that's about it. If we had a healthy O-Line we would have ran down the clock and beaten the Packers and probably the Giants too. No one in the NFL can beat the Pat's right now. Should ever coach in the NFL but Bellacheat be fired?? I don’t think so.

Re: WP artilce: Time for Gibbs to walk away?
 

This doesn't link to an article

Re: WP artilce: Time for Gibbs to walk away?
 

I didn't see and don't need to read the article. Whomever wrote it has no sense of timing. That is the kind of article you write in the offseason or when the team is clearly going to wind up with a bad record. To pose a question in Week 9 about whether Gibbs should hang it up is premature and, to use the word of the week, retarded.

On a related note, I'm tired of people overreacting to each and every win [B]or[/B] loss. After the games against Miami and Philadelphia, most every fan and journalist said things like, "Good teams win close games and beat teams that they are supposed to beat. The Redskins managed to pull out wins in close games against teams that they were supposed to beat. In short, they are a good team." After the Detroit game, just about everyone was ready to send Jason to Hawaii and get order tickets to the Super Bowl. And so, with expectations generally running very high, people predicted that we would actually beat a team that is just crushing their opponents. What is aggravating is that many of the very same people who predicted that we would beat the very best team in the NFL are now jumping ship after getting beaten by a team that should have beaten us. So in one week people are predicting that we will beat the best team in the league and the next week they are predicting an implosion?

Aside from the worst of the worst and the best of the best, teams win games and they lose games. This is the NFL and, as the saying goes, "On any given Sunday." Great teams lose games that they "shouldn't" and bad teams win games even when the consensus was that they couldn't. Nevertheless, fans and the media overreact to and over-analyze each and every play in each and every game. The players fumble balls or the quarterback throws a few picks and all of the sudden the coaches go from Godsends to incompetents and the players go from studs to duds.

The fact is that this team is going to lose and win games....all with the same coaching staff, schemes, players, and jock straps. The bottom line is that this team is neither horrible nor spectacular. It is a slightly above average team that has a very good chance of making the playoffs. Could they screw it up? Sure. As they say, "On any given Sunday."

Re: WP artilce: Time for Gibbs to walk away?
 

I'm with you, Sheriff. People gotta get on an even keel. What do you think 9-7 looks like? We're gonna lose some, gonna win some. Look good some days, look weak the next. The pats game really knocked people for a loop, and I understand that, but people gotta get some perspective here!

(And if we slap the Jets, it won't mean we're great. It's week to week "up here.")

Re: WP artilce: Time for Gibbs to walk away?
 

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/31/AR2007103102008.html]washingtonpost.com[/url] is the link to the article.

The guy makes great points in his article. While for the most part I've been happy with Gibbs with the personnel he's gone after, his coaching has left a lot to be lacking. I feel like even 4 years in he doesn't understand clock management, is consistently letting opponents back in the game after every half, and seems like a mediocre coach in the NFL now days. Gibbs has had four years to turn this team around, and thanks to Clinton Portis running like a madman and our defense just being incrediable in 2005 we made the playoffs.

I would have been happy to see Gibbs gone last year, but every game that passes I'm getting more and more used to the idea of a new head coach in DC. If he wants to stay on for personnel decision, fine. But I'm ready for the Greg Williams era to begin.

I think those of you that know me realize this isn't some knee jerk reaction to the pats game. I think that was shocking of just how far we have to go, but still.

Re: WP artilce: Time for Gibbs to walk away?
 

[QUOTE=Daseal;372091]I think those of you that know me realize this isn't some knee jerk reaction to the pats game. I think that was shocking of just how far we have to go, but still.[/QUOTE]

I know where you are coming from Daseal and I hope you don't think my post was directed at you. I'm frustrated with many of the things the coaches are doing and how many of the players are playing. But, I don't think one has to believe that we are s**t in order to recognize flaws. I don't know about you, but given the injuries to the O-line, JC's inexperience, etc., I don't expect perfection. This team leaves a lot to be desired, but it also leaves us with a lot to be happy with.

We're 4-3 and [I]should[/I] be 5-3 after this Sunday. After suffering through years and years of losses, I'm very happy with the overall state of the team if we end up 5-3. That doesn't mean I don't have my complaints, it just means that [B]overall[/B], I'm happy.

I guess for people who each offseason think we are Super Bowl bound, there is going to be a rude awakening when this team isn't 13-3. I guess some people haven't realized that the hype that accompanies this team each offseason doesn't mean squat during the regular season. But, for those of us who are used to the losing seasons and do their best to ignore the offseason hype, 5-3 is cause for celebration and not consternation.

Re: WP artilce: Time for Gibbs to walk away?
 

What Shapiro is saying in the article has been discussed so many times by so many people it's almost unreal. Regardless of how one may feel personally about the points he mentioned, this topic has found the lips of many fans for the last couple years. True, factual, or indifferent, it's up to Gibbs to make the rhetoric go away.

Re: WP artilce: Time for Gibbs to walk away?
 

Gibbs isn't the same Gibbs of 1981-92 guys. The very fact that Saunders is here should tell you that. Gibbs called the plays during his first stint here and had at that time the most prolific offensive machine in the NFL til the Vikings of the mid to late 90's broke all the Skins offensive records. Also you had no FA, no greedy, uneducated morons only after bling, and a salary cap to hinder you back then. Gibbs also had Bobby Beathred to help build his team for him. Gibbs isn't cut out to be team president. It sucks to say th at but it is true. Play calling and clock management have been very poor at times, more akin to a rookie NFL coach than a HOF coach. Injuries and lack of execution aside, we could still be 6-1 now if he didn't throttle back the offense as he has. If Gibbs can't right the ship this season, we need to have him step down and get Cowher or another real coach to takeover. If Gibbs stays his full tenure they will just hand the job to Williams who is not HC material. Are you guys really going to want to wait til Williams gets canned to see a winner in DC again? I think it has been a long enough wait don't you?

Re: WP artilce: Time for Gibbs to walk away?
 

all his points were right on target,he's saying what 90 percent of us have been saying already,except of course the members of the kool-aid club:FIREdevil:cheeky-sm

Re: WP artilce: Time for Gibbs to walk away?
 

[QUOTE=htownskinfan;372106]all his points were right on target,he's saying what 90 percent of us have been saying already,except of course the members of the kool-aid club:FIREdevil:cheeky-sm[/QUOTE]

Does that 90% include the 60% of the posters on this site who believe this team is headed to the playoffs? Though I freely admit that I am a member of the Kool-Aid Club, any call for a coach to quit when his team has a winning record is simply retarded. You have to admit that you are a member of the "this team sucks" group.

Re: WP artilce: Time for Gibbs to walk away?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;372085]This doesn't link to an article[/quote]

Sorry, it worked the first time I did it cause I clicked on it myself to check it out. Wierd.

Re: WP artilce: Time for Gibbs to walk away?
 

[QUOTE=GusFrerotte;372104]Gibbs isn't the same Gibbs of 1981-92 guys. The very fact that Saunders is here should tell you that. Gibbs called the plays during his first stint here and had at that time the most prolific offensive machine in the NFL til the Vikings of the mid to late 90's broke all the Skins offensive records. Also you had no FA, no greedy, uneducated morons only after bling, and a salary cap to hinder you back then. Gibbs also had Bobby Beathred to help build his team for him. Gibbs isn't cut out to be team president. It sucks to say th at but it is true. Play calling and clock management have been very poor at times, more akin to a rookie NFL coach than a HOF coach. Injuries and lack of execution aside, we could still be 6-1 now if he didn't throttle back the offense as he has. If Gibbs can't right the ship this season, we need to have him step down and get Cowher or another real coach to takeover. If Gibbs stays his full tenure they will just hand the job to Williams who is not HC material. Are you guys really going to want to wait til Williams gets canned to see a winner in DC again? I think it has been a long enough wait don't you?[/QUOTE]


All of us here view the Redskins from a different perspective mainly because we are for the most part, "die hard fans". There are those however who view them from a more objective standpoint, and do not see the same things we see, or share the same views. Just as we see the team at 4-3 and relatively satisfied with that mark, there are others who say based on the way we have played the games, we could just as easily be 1-6.

I want to think of Shapiro as an objective writer with no personal gripe with either Gibbs or the Redskins. I'm convinced however that when the casual observer watches the way the Redskins play, they come away with a feeling of not always whether they win or lose, but how they played the game.

Re: WP artilce: Time for Gibbs to walk away?
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;372112]Does that 90% include the 60% of the posters on this site who believe this team is headed to the playoffs? Though I freely admit that I am a member of the Kool-Aid Club, any call for a coach to quit when his team has a winning record is simply retarded. You have to admit that you are a member of the "this team sucks" group.[/quote]


I think he's calling for Gibbs to walk away after the season, not now.

Re: WP artilce: Time for Gibbs to walk away?
 

[QUOTE=Longtimefan;372114]Just as we see the team at 4-3 and relatively satisfied with that mark, there are others who say based on the way we have played the games, we could just as easily be 1-6. [/QUOTE]

And then there are those of us who think we could just as easily be 6-1. Could we be 1-6, sure if a ball here or there didn't bounce our way. But, we could just as easily be 6-1 had a few balls bounced our way against the Packers and Giants.

In the end, it does not matter how we played the game, how we won the game, or how we lost the game. All that matters is whether we won it.

Re: WP artilce: Time for Gibbs to walk away?
 

[QUOTE=paulskinsfan;372115]I think he's calling for Gibbs to walk away after the season, not now.[/QUOTE]

Yeah. But, whether he is saying that Gibbs should walk away now or at the end of the season, he is still saying that in Week 9 when we have a winning record. It's simply premature.

Re: WP artilce: Time for Gibbs to walk away?
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;372088]I didn't see and don't need to read the article.[/QUOTE]

You really should read the article.

While the Patriots make everybody look bad, they haven't beaten anyone as bad as they beat the Redskins. And we were supposed to be their biggest challenge yet! What bothers me isn't the fact that we lost, I certainly didn't think we'd pull off the upset. But I didn't think we'd get smashed the way we did either.

This was the first time I've ever seen a Joe Gibbs-coached team look completely intimidated from start to finish. There was a group of men on the field in Massachusettes on Sunday afternoon, and there were a group of boys -- the Redskins played like scared little boys crying for their mommies that day.

It was sickening to watch.

I've never once called for any of these coaches to get canned. Not Gregg Williams, not Saunders, and certainly not Gibbs. But I have to admit, when Gibbs' team didn't even appear like they wanted to be on the field, my confidence in him was shaken like it never has been before. Only the most delusional of fans would have the courage to say that the Redskins gave it all they could. They played like dogs and ran away with their tails between their legs. Joe Gibbs' team reached the pathetic depths of incompetent buffoonery like it never came close to before, at a time when they had the chance to show the world that they could at least hang with the Patriots and put up some semblance of a dogfight.

In the four years that Joe Gibbs has had to right this ship, that there was such an immeasurable gap between these two teams is telling.

Re: WP article: Time for Gibbs to walk away?
 

[quote]
In the end, it does not matter how we played the game, how we won the game, or how we lost the game. All that matters is whether we won it.[/quote]
I disagree. Yes, the final score is what matters. I will never make an apology for a win, or make excuses for a loss. However, if you're not looking at how the team is playing, you're ignoring the problems with this team. Namely that they typically play up or down to their competition, and that is a TERRIBLE trait for a team to have. My issue with the recent team is the inconsistency. I want to know each week if we're a good team or a bad team.

SGG -- He also said he wanted Gibbs to walk away after last season. I think the strength of our opponents should be looked at a bit as far as the record. Our schedule is what it is, but when evaluating your talent, you must look at the teams you're playing.

Re: WP article: Time for Gibbs to walk away?
 

I liked his jab at Belichick calling him classless.

Re: WP article: Time for Gibbs to walk away?
 

I think everybody had extremely high expectations of Joe Gibbs when he first came back to D.C. Us older fans had them, because we knew what he brought to this team in his first tenure and what he is capable of. The younger fans had high expectations because of what us older guys had witnessed and they want to witness the same greatness. I think that is the bottom line. We all want to see greatness, and we want to see it right away. After all, we ALL have waited a very long time to see the Redskins back on top in the league. This team has been medicore at best since Joe left us the first time.

Honestly, I will be unashamed in saying that I will support Joe Gibbs, fully, until he decides to step down. He will not leave the team any other way, unless the good Lord decides to take him home. I understand what he is trying so desperately to do. I see that it goes far beyond X's and O's. I understand most of you only want to see the bottom line. I understand that. I want to see this team be great as well. However, I have always been the type of guy who takes a step back and looks at the big picture. I take into consideration every aspect of the game, not just X's and O's. I guess that is why I have always preached patience. Sometimes it's easier to have patience when you're looking at everything from the ground up, instead of just what happens on Sunday.

I see Joe Gibbs trying to build this team from the ground up. I will say, I have been disappointed that we haven't seen this team completely turn the corner yet. Maybe this team doesn't quite have the confidence to win yet? Whether the reason, I do believe it is time for this team to show us that they're a playoff team again. Not only that, but they are a consistent playoff team. I mean honestly, we can sit here and point fingers as to why we're not 6-1 or 7-0 yet. We are what we are right now. And right now, we're 4-3 and have about 9 games left to go in the season. All of those games are winable. I do not see anymore "Patriots" on our schedule.

If by the end of this season we are 6-10, then I will be very disappointed. This team is good enough to win 10 games, and Joe's coaching staff is good enough to lead them to 10 games.

Re: WP artilce: Time for Gibbs to walk away?
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;372116]And then there are those of us who think we could just as easily be 6-1. Could we be 1-6, sure if a ball here or there didn't bounce our way. But, we could just as easily be 6-1 had a few balls bounced our way against the Packers and Giants.

In the end, it does not matter how we played the game, how we won the game, or how we lost the game. All that matters is whether we won it.[/QUOTE]


It is noteworthy, depending on the viewers perspective that the situation could be looked at either way. I guess it just depends on who's making the interpertation, and how they personally feel about the Redskins.

Re: WP article: Time for Gibbs to walk away?
 

[QUOTE=Daseal;372126 ]I disagree. Yes, the final score is what matters. I will never make an apology for a win, or make excuses for a loss. However, if you're not looking at how the team is playing, you're ignoring the problems with this team. Namely that they typically play up or down to their competition, and that is a TERRIBLE trait for a team to have. My issue with the recent team is the inconsistency. I want to know each week if we're a good team or a bad team.

SGG -- He also said he wanted Gibbs to walk away after last season. I think the strength of our opponents should be looked at a bit as far as the record. Our schedule is what it is, but when evaluating your talent, you must look at the teams you're playing.[/QUOTE]

Again I have my complaints about the team and it's fair to look at how the team won or lost games in trying to determine how they will fare in the remaining games. My only point was that, at the end of the season, all that will matter is how many Ws we have.

I'd be far happier with us winning every game by 1 point in ugly efforts, than to lose every game but to have put up a good show.

Re: WP article: Time for Gibbs to walk away?
 

Beems,

The loss to the Patriots was definitely very, very, very ugly. I predicted a 34-17 loss and was shocked by how poorly we played. There is also no dispute that Gibbs II hasn't lived up to the legend that is Gibbs I. But, I'm still happy with 4-3 looking at 5-3.

Re: WP article: Time for Gibbs to walk away?
 

I agree with SGG that the timing is wrong with this article. And really the article is nothing that we haven't heard over and over going back to 2004. It seems like ever since Gibbs came back whenever times are tough people want to boot him to the curb. Let's revisit this once the season is over and we'll see if this holds any water.

Re: WP article: Time for Gibbs to walk away?
 

It's a well-reasoned, well-written article, even though I don't necessarily agree with all of it.

While Sherrif is absolutely correct that this question doesn't need to be pondered until after the season - hell, the Skins could win out and go to the Superbowl and then we would view things very differently - the main indictment of the article, that Gibbs 2.0 is lacking something on a tactical level, unfortunately has to be seriously considered.

The mark of a great coach in this league is doing less with more - think what Crennel is doing, or Herm Edwards, or Gruden in Tampa this year. Either the Skins aren't as talented as we think or they aren't extracting the most from the talent they have; either way, Gibbs is accountable for that.

I have yet to have seen a game in this second tenure where I felt our offense was superior on a purely strategic level. Sure there have been moments in 2005 where we overpowered people with what was probably superior talent, but when have we had a win where we beat a better team just by being better prepared than them? Where is that signature upset? This weekend was a chance to show, even if we can't beat the Pats, we can play with them and we were utterly humiliated. Not only was their talent superior but we weren't prepared and didn't adjust to anything they were doing.

Did anyone hear Doc's interview of Campbell this week on his radio show? [url=http://www.sportstalk980.com/cc-common/podcast/single_podcast.html?podcast=The%20Doc%20Walker%20Show.xml]SportsTalk 980 - Washington, DC[/url]. I was stunned by the ferocity with which Doc hammered Jason, even though I had to agree with him, particularily when Doc questioned him on their strategy for attacking Asante Samuel. Why no adjustments? Why no change in approach when the game was getting out of hand?

I'm still drinking the Kool-Aid, and I still think we are going to the playoffs. But the larger issue here, that we are not maximizing our talent and never out-strategizing our opponents, is unfortunately carrying a lot of merit.

4-3 is fine. 5-3 will be great. The playoffs will be exciting. But 3 1/2 years into a Superbowl rebuilding project, with unlimited resources and unlimited support, is that enough?

Re: WP article: Time for Gibbs to walk away?
 

[QUOTE=djnemo65;372147]The mark of a great coach in this league is doing less with more - think what Crennel is doing, or Herm Edwards, or Gruden in Tampa this year. [B]Either the Skins aren't as talented as we think or they aren't extracting the most from the talent they have[/B]; either way, Gibbs is accountable for that ... (snip) ... But 3 1/2 years into a Superbowl rebuilding project, with unlimited resources and unlimited support, is that enough?[/QUOTE]

This is an excellent question. Sometimes I do wonder, just how talented is this team? Trying to look at it objectively, from an outsiders point of view -- one might say the following ...

-- Santana Moss has really only had one good year. Is he a flash in the pan? Was 2005 his peak?

-- Clinton Portis. Against NFC East opponents, arguably the most important contests of the season, he averages just 73 yards per game over 17 games. Either he truly isn't 100% healthy, or we have ourselves an average running back. Even for as young as he is, the wear and tear is starting to really show.

-- Was Randle El designed to be a #2 receiver? Or was his role primarily a returner and #3 slot/slash type player? Just what is his role supposed to be?

-- Offensive line. It was really good last year, but everybody else wasn't. Talk about bad timing. Another unit that was reaching its peak, and needed to move in the direction of a rebuild.

-- Quarterback. The future is indeed bright for Jason Campbell, but he's not there yet.

Is three and a half years enough time? Like I said earlier, the gap shouldn't have been this wide between us and the Patriots. I think there have been some dismal personnel decisions with Gibbs calling the shots. If you're rebuilding, then why bring in Brunell in a "Win Now" philosophy? How much further ahead would Campbell have been if he'd gotten the chance to start earlier?

When you really look at it, we need help at offensive line, wide receiver, cornerback, and defensive end. That's a fair amount of work to do after four years of 'rebuilding'. Overall, it's been a mix/mash with one good year out of three, and a shaky 4-3 record in year four with a murky, could be decent, could be ugly outlook.

I think we can all agree this isn't the state Gibbs wanted to be in at this point.

Re: WP article: Time for Gibbs to walk away?
 

Hindsight is 20/20. We're all geniuses after the fact. I say to revisit this after the season is over.

Re: WP article: Time for Gibbs to walk away?
 

[quote]I see Joe Gibbs trying to build this team from the ground up.[/quote]

I'm curious how you see this. To me it seems like the same thing. High priced free agents: (Portis, Moss, Lloyd, Kendell, El, Fletcher, Carter, Archeletta, etc etc. He's done fairly well drafting, and he's also gotten some steals such as Marcus Washington.

I just don't see Gibbs as building this team for the future, he built it for the here and now. I think our lack of depth on the team (except running back and defensive back) has been pretty sad. Our offensive line is old and while you wouldn't expect this many injuries, you also shouldn't be getting your starting guard 2-3 weeks before the regular season begins.

Re: WP article: Time for Gibbs to walk away?
 

[QUOTE=skinsguy;372159]Hindsight is 20/20. We're all geniuses after the fact. I say to revisit this after the season is over.[/QUOTE]

Some of us were questioning the personnel moves from the very beginning.

Re: WP article: Time for Gibbs to walk away?
 

Time for Leonard Shapiro to walk away!! Gibbs walked into a screwed up situation, it takes time to fix the problems he's faced, it takes time to develop skills and confidence on a young QB. I think he's really close to building a contender, now or at the end of the season is not the time to walk away, injuries to key players haven't helped. Let the man fulfill his contract and if next year he screws up then he can walk away. If he walks away now you are going to start all over again as a new coaching staff will mold the team to their liking and we'll be bitching about Gibbs walking away because of all the changes. Gibbs is not a quitter and will not walk away until he succeeds, I'm sick and tired of all the FUCKING whiners and doubters. Either you root for this team or go FUCK yourselves!!!!

Re: WP article: Time for Gibbs to walk away?
 

Here we go again. Gibbs must go, c'mon. Lets focus on this season.

Re: WP article: Time for Gibbs to walk away?
 

I don't know about anyone else, but I personally feel like I owe something to Coach Gibbs. He sacrificed a alot personally during his first tenure to make us a winning franchise and it's because of him I have so many great memories of this team. I sometimes wonder if I would be such a die hard fan of this team if it weren't for him.

When he came back, I thought to myself, "Regardless of whether or not he's able to make us a winning team again, I'm just glad he cared enough to come back and at least try." He didn't do it for the money. He didn't do it for his ego. He did it because he cares about this organization and its fans. He left a thriving NASCAR team, sold his shares with the Falcons, and sacrificed, again, precious time with his family in order to help this team. Because of that reason, I feel indebted to him and give him my full support for as long as he chooses to be here regardless of the outcome.

Re: WP article: Time for Gibbs to walk away?
 

[quote]Gibbs is not a quitter and will not walk away until he succeeds, I'm sick and tired of all the FUCKING whiners and doubters. Either you root for this team or go FUCK yourselves!!!![/quote]

Please go back to extreme skins. We only want posters around that can actually look at a situation, then sit down and type out their thoughts. If you're really ignorant enough to think people who doubt Gibbs aren't fans, I'm surprised you can boot your computer up. If you don't agree, fine. However, questioning the fan hood of people on this board is just an asinine move. The Redskins don't exactly hold on to fair weather fans. This team has given me 8 ulcers already.

Re: WP article: Time for Gibbs to walk away?
 

[QUOTE=Daseal;372180]Please go back to extreme skins. We only want posters around that can actually look at a situation, then sit down and type out their thoughts. If you're really ignorant enough to think people who doubt Gibbs aren't fans, I'm surprised you can boot your computer up. If you don't agree, fine. However, questioning the fan hood of people on this board is just an asinine move. The Redskins don't exactly hold on to fair weather fans. This team has given me 8 ulcers already.[/QUOTE]

It's ok. I've already spoken to SFRedskins. We're going to move on with the discussion now

Re: WP article: Time for Gibbs to walk away?
 

[quote=djnemo65;372147]It's a well-reasoned, well-written article, even though I don't necessarily agree with all of it.

While Sherrif is absolutely correct that this question doesn't need to be pondered until after the season - hell, the Skins could win out and go to the Superbowl and then we would view things very differently - the main indictment of the article, that Gibbs 2.0 is lacking something on a tactical level, unfortunately has to be seriously considered.

The mark of a great coach in this league is doing less with more - think what Crennel is doing, or Herm Edwards, or Gruden in Tampa this year. Either the Skins aren't as talented as we think or they aren't extracting the most from the talent they have; either way, Gibbs is accountable for that.

I have yet to have seen a game in this second tenure where I felt our offense was superior on a purely strategic level. Sure there have been moments in 2005 where we overpowered people with what was probably superior talent, but when have we had a win where we beat a better team just by being better prepared than them? Where is that signature upset? This weekend was a chance to show, even if we can't beat the Pats, we can play with them and we were utterly humiliated. Not only was their talent superior but we weren't prepared and didn't adjust to anything they were doing.

Did anyone hear Doc's interview of Campbell this week on his radio show? [URL="http://www.sportstalk980.com/cc-common/podcast/single_podcast.html?podcast=The%20Doc%20Walker%20Show.xml"]SportsTalk 980 - Washington, DC[/URL]. I was stunned by the ferocity with which Doc hammered Jason, even though I had to agree with him, particularily when Doc questioned him on their strategy for attacking Asante Samuel. Why no adjustments? Why no change in approach when the game was getting out of hand?

I'm still drinking the Kool-Aid, and I still think we are going to the playoffs. But the larger issue here, that we are not maximizing our talent and never out-strategizing our opponents, is unfortunately carrying a lot of merit.

4-3 is fine. 5-3 will be great. The playoffs will be exciting. But 3 1/2 years into a Superbowl rebuilding project, with unlimited resources and unlimited support, is that enough?[/quote]

Great post, and I agree 100%. Halftime adjustments, "surprise" wins over "favored" opponents, always stepping up for divisional games, blue collar players who came out of nowhere to have the games of their lives for the Redskins, and above all else, playing with discipline and pride -- these are the traits of Joe Gibbs football as we remember them.

Now, we know that many of the things that contributed to that atmosphere of winning are no longer here -- I've always lamented the departure of Bobby Beathard and anybody who was a Skins/Gibbs fan back in the day knows full well what Bobby meant to our organization. Cerrato is no Bobby Beathard. Shapiro isn't the first to suggest we try to get Scott Pioli, who may be one of the only modern dudes I've ever heard legitimately compared to Beathard.

And, I think Shapiro is dead on questioning the mentality of current players. I don't know that the team we have now has the right combination of fire, respect for the institution and the Man who's trying to restore greatness to it, and overall work ethic that we need. The phrase "true Redskin" is tossed about an awful lot, but we still end up with guys making an uncharacteristic number of mental mistakes, coughing up the football, playing without intensity, or worst of all, just not playing much at all (Lloyd, Arch Deluxe, et al).

Re: WP article: Time for Gibbs to walk away?
 

I was never too excited with the idea of bringing Gibbs back in the first place mostly because of his age. I would have preferred the Skins hire a coach that could have potentailly stayed around 10+ years (if everything went well) and get his system running for a longer period of time. IMO Gibbs's age made it hard for him to stick around more than his 5 yr contract so by the time he really got things up & running it was time for him to retire and bring in someone new (that would want to implement his own system).

Now that Gibbs has been here awhile I can only say I am disappointed. His record is mediocre and the team is only in slightly better shape then when he came in. He just does not see to be the same coach that I remember from the 80s. I think thats because of changes in the league & Gibbs.

I think Gibbs has earned the right (from Gibbs 1.0) to decide for himself when he will go but when he does I wont be very upset (I never would have imagined 4 years ago I'd say that).

Re: WP article: Time for Gibbs to walk away?
 

[quote=Lady Brave;372179]I don't know about anyone else, but I personally feel like I owe something to Coach Gibbs. He sacrificed a alot personally during his first tenure to make us a winning franchise and it's because of him I have so many great memories of this team. I sometimes wonder if I would be such a die hard fan of this team if it weren't for him.

When he came back, I thought to myself, "Regardless of whether or not he's able to make us a winning team again, I'm just glad he cared enough to come back and at least try." He didn't do it for the money. He didn't do it for his ego. He did it because he cares about this organization and its fans. He left a thriving NASCAR team, sold his shares with the Falcons, and sacrificed, again, precious time with his family in order to help this team. Because of that reason, I feel indebted to him and give him my full support for as long as he chooses to be here regardless of the outcome.[/quote]

That pretty much sums up my feelings as well. No matter what happens I greatly appreciate his efforts in trying to bring the Redskins back to life. As you said, I think is intentions in coming back were very genuine and he is a true Redskin for life. He helped put the Redskins back on the map in the 80's and early 90's and for that we as fans should be forever grateful.

Re: WP article: Time for Gibbs to walk away?
 

I probably wouldn't have joined this site if not for Gibbs...some would say that would have been a good thing

Re: WP article: Time for Gibbs to walk away?
 

[quote=djnemo65;372147]It's a well-reasoned, well-written article, even though I don't necessarily agree with all of it.

While Sherrif is absolutely correct that this question doesn't need to be pondered until after the season - hell, the Skins could win out and go to the Superbowl and then we would view things very differently - the main indictment of the article, that Gibbs 2.0 is lacking something on a tactical level, unfortunately has to be seriously considered.

The mark of a great coach in this league is doing less with more - think what Crennel is doing, or Herm Edwards, or Gruden in Tampa this year. Either the Skins aren't as talented as we think or they aren't extracting the most from the talent they have; either way, Gibbs is accountable for that.

I have yet to have seen a game in this second tenure where I felt our offense was superior on a purely strategic level. Sure there have been moments in 2005 where we overpowered people with what was probably superior talent, but when have we had a win where we beat a better team just by being better prepared than them? Where is that signature upset? This weekend was a chance to show, even if we can't beat the Pats, we can play with them and we were utterly humiliated. Not only was their talent superior but we weren't prepared and didn't adjust to anything they were doing.

Did anyone hear Doc's interview of Campbell this week on his radio show? [URL="http://www.sportstalk980.com/cc-common/podcast/single_podcast.html?podcast=The%20Doc%20Walker%20Show.xml"]SportsTalk 980 - Washington, DC[/URL]. I was stunned by the ferocity with which Doc hammered Jason, even though I had to agree with him, particularily when Doc questioned him on their strategy for attacking Asante Samuel. Why no adjustments? Why no change in approach when the game was getting out of hand?

I'm still drinking the Kool-Aid, and I still think we are going to the playoffs. But the larger issue here, that we are not maximizing our talent and never out-strategizing our opponents, is unfortunately carrying a lot of merit.

4-3 is fine. 5-3 will be great. The playoffs will be exciting. But 3 1/2 years into a Superbowl rebuilding project, with unlimited resources and unlimited support, is that enough?[/quote]

DJ, I don't think I could have possibly summed up my sentiments any better than you did in your post. I think most of the so called Gibbs haters or bashers have a difficult team articulating exactly how they feel about the situation at hand. Think about it, the Redskins are 4-3 and could possilby control their own destiny. On one hand Gibbs is a legend and so many feel indebted to him, on the other hand, well, the team hasn't quite turned the corner as many have expected. And for various reasons, mind you.

But my fundamental frustration has been, is Gibbs doing more with less? While the talent is developing, while Jason is still growing as a quarterback, is Gibbs or the staff "ahead" of the team and requiring them to catch up in the meantime? Let's face it, in the NFL injuries are a reality not an excuse. This year the offensive line has been decimated, last year it was the secondary and an untimely injury to Portis. Next year, just as sure as we're sitting here, it will be some other key player or maybe two. Who knows?

Game after game, particularly the wins, I feel as though the Redskins actually have to outplay not just the opponent, but at times overcome the coaching itself. Somehow, it seems to me, this team has to rise to a certain level of competition to compensate for what they lack in savvy, ingenuity, cohesiveness, preparation and chemistry. If those things aren't there, then generally it's a nail biter or a flat out loss.