AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

Didn't know if anyone else had seen this one....this made me feel a little better that they are at least recognizing that the offense has been pathetic.

How does this make you feel?

[url=http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-redskins-startingover&prov=ap&type=lgns]Redskins' offense back to square one: 'We're starting a whole new year' - NFL - Yahoo! Sports[/url]

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

I like the sounds of it. I don't care what they do whether it's run or pass, just get this offense in gear already!

I agree that the excuses for Portis are wearing thin. He needs to start producing.

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

If theres a time for this to happen its now when we face one of the worst defenses in the league. Take advantage of the opportunity and hopefully gain some momentum from it.

I like everything I read, and I really hope it pays dividends for the rest of this season.

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

Why couldn't they have come to this type of awakening [I]before[/I] the Patriot game?

Sounds like they aren't changing a thing. It's the same ol' stuff -- "Let's get back to 'Redskins football'" -- except this time, they really, really mean it.

Whoopee.

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

Two years ago we did this "back to basics" approach and went 5-0, last year we did it and finished the season 2-4 but were clearly improved. I think next year we should just do it from game 1.

Seriously though, I don't see exaclty what it is we claim to be doing different now

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

Decent article. An acknowledgement that something's not right and they need to get it straight before it's too late. It makes sense too to focus more on the run game. I think Wade is better at run blocking than pass protection. He can't be worse. We have to play to our current strengths not to where we want our strengths to be. I like how Randle El, Cartwright and Samuels took the lead. And here's something else that was nice to read...

"TE [URL="http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/5301/;_ylt=AqYC386ruPPRMWwjVhTWI2UdsLYF"][COLOR=#0000ff]Todd Yoder[/COLOR][/URL] (ankle) was the only player limited in practice."

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

[quote=SmootSmack;372134]Two years ago we did this "back to basics" approach and went 5-0, last year we did it and finished the season 2-4 but were clearly improved. I think next year we should just do it from game 1.

Seriously though, I don't see exaclty what it is we claim to be doing different now[/quote]

Probably not listening to players request for certain play packages. There are quite a few instances during the games that several players just don't look like they "feel it". I wouldn't say they're dogging it but I think they might believe there are better plays in that situation.

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

I've got to admit it, I've got mixed feelings about the article. I liked the overall tone, i.e., the players getting involved, getting fired up, etc. But, frankly, I am surprised that we are re-committing ourselves to the run, run, run offense. Maybe things will change, but our O-line hasn't been opening up any running lanes and I would have expected us to start passing more, not less.

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

This disturbing thing implied in this article is that some of the players haven't been fully on board with the gameplans. If that's true, then changing such attitudes would do a lot, imo.

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

Everything that was said is great, now all they need to do is put it into action and we'll all live happily ever after.......Like words becoming deeds.

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

I guess there is hope but I disagree that Portis' situation isn't health related. He looks like a shell of himself and clearly has lost explosiveness and power. Hopefully not permanently.

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

Yeah baby I like this article. Like djnemo65 said above it sort of reveals some guys have not bought into the play-calling/gameplan up to this pt (as if it wasn't obvious enough on gameday!). Who's to say whether they will totally buy in going forward, but it sounds like it should be a better situation going forward.

Also, the article referred to the hybrid offense. IMO this has been the biggest f'n problem. It's not really Gibbs' gameplan or Saunders gameplan but a weakened compromise. If either guy were to fully takeover the result would be better than what we've seen. My personal opinion is that Saunders full takeover will yield the very best results (if or when that actually happens), but for now if the offense is going to return more heavily to Gibbs style attack, w/ the whole o-line digging in for battle in the trenches, we should see some improvement. Gibbs is smashmouth, and hopefully it can be done w/ the players we have today. When Thomas gets back Gibbs' smashmouth will work even better. Meanwhile, Saunders relies on a rhythm of play-calling to constantly throw the defense off kilter (remember KC). His style probably requires a higher level of execution and for everyone to be onboard, but I think in today's NFL it can be more effective than the smashmouth.

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

[QUOTE=MTRedskinsFan;372165]Also, the article referred to the hybrid offense. IMO this has been the biggest f'n problem. It's not really Gibbs' gameplan or Saunders gameplan but a weakened compromise.[/QUOTE]

A-freakin'-men. Pick a scheme, a philosophy, a playcaller, and stick with it.

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

The Skins' offense might be too predictable. If you're really that good it might not make any difference -- go right at em -- but hardly nobody in the NFL is that good.

Case in point - the Patriots! Watch Brady break the huddle and walk up to the line: you have no idea what they're going to do. They do not telegraph their plays! I think the Pats are the best in the league at this right now. Small points like this make the difference at pro league level.

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

Look, they've got to find some way to run the ball effectively--3.whatever is not doing it. That doesn't mean going back to smash-mouth--it just means finding SOME running plays that work for us. And that SHOULD open up the passing game and give JC more time. So it need not mean a "return to JG football" whatever that means. But something has to change on O.

About players not buying into stuff--we'll, they have not been getting it done, one way or another. Finish your blocks, make the right reads, find that extra push on 3rd and short--whatever! Get it done!

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

That's not us. We didn't come back to put up with that kind of stuff," Bugel said. "We'll solve the problem. We need cooperation from everybody, and the guys who don't want to cooperate won't play. It's real simple. We're going to do it this way or Trailway. Make up your mind."

I like the sound of that. I dont like the fact that he has to say it. It tells me that yes, some of the players havent been giving 100% on some of the plays called, for whatever reason. The coaches know who is guilty of this and if it means benching someone temporarily, well sometimes that gets their ass on track. We are 4-3 with a lack of total effort by some players, just imagine when they are all together.....hmmmmm

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

We're REALLY serious about winning now! I mean REAL serious. The first 7 games we were just kind of serious, but now we really WANT to win.

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

[quote=Beemnseven;372131][B]Why couldn't they have come to this type of awakening [I]before[/I] the Patriot game?[/B]

Sounds like they aren't changing a thing. It's the same ol' stuff -- "Let's get back to 'Redskins football'" -- except this time, they really, really mean it.

Whoopee.[/quote]

Hey, sometimes you need to hit rock bottom before you really realize what's going on.

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

[quote=djnemo65;372152]This disturbing thing implied in this article is that some of the players haven't been fully on board with the gameplans. If that's true, then changing such attitudes would do a lot, imo.[/quote]

Yeah that's a bit disturbing to me as well. It says there is still a bit of a divide between the coaches and players. The good news I guess is the players have decided they need to buy in at any cost for the good of the team.

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

[quote=GB1;372168]The Skins' offense might be too predictable. If you're really that good it might not make any difference -- go right at em -- but hardly nobody in the NFL is that good.

Case in point - the Patriots! Watch Brady break the huddle and walk up to the line: you have no idea what they're going to do. They do not telegraph their plays! I think the Pats are the best in the league at this right now. Small points like this make the difference at pro league level.[/quote]

Not sure what you're getting at here. Are the Skins somehow telegraphing their plays??

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;372214]Not sure what you're getting at here. Are the Skins somehow telegraphing their plays??[/QUOTE]

It's true, they are - it's been the reason we've lost all along. In the Patriots game I saw Portis break the huddle, run over to Mike Vrabel and hand him several pages from Al Saunder's playbook.

In related news, Al Saunders' playbook is now down to 698 pages.

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

Personally I'm just getting tired of people pointing to the Patriots and saying, why can't we do what they do, or why can't we be like them?

The answer is there are 31 teams in the league that are NOT the Patriots. If it were that easy everyone would be doing what the Patriots do. The fact is the Patriots are a perfect blend of talent, drive, coaching, and execution. What they've done not only this year but in this decade is rare.

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;372232]Personally I'm just getting tired of people pointing to the Patriots and saying, why can't we do what they do, or why can't we be like them?

The answer is there are 31 teams in the league that are NOT the Patriots. If it were that easy everyone would be doing what the Patriots do. The fact is the Patriots are a perfect blend of talent, drive, coaching, and execution. What they've done not only this year but in this decade is rare.[/QUOTE]

I would not be surprised if we look back at the 2007 Patriots as not only rare in this decade, but the history of the NFL.

It pains me to say that since I hate the Patriots, but they are something special this year, and it would not shock me at all if they go down in the NFL history books.

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

Reading the article it is clear that the problem begins at the top, Gibbs hasn't been doing his homework in version 2.0.

1. Clinton Portis has been miscast as a smashmouth running back. I love Portis, but clearly he has broken down due to how he has been used here. It just doesn't fit, would you use your Porsche to haul firewood? And last year we effectively borrowed the neighbor's truck (TJ Duckett) and kept it in the garage while we found our own truck (Ladell Betts) could carry the load.

2. We have no offensive identity. I personally hate it when we reference 2005 like it was an offensive renaissance. The only thing we really did better then was sustain drives (42% 3rd down conversion in '05 compared to 37% in '06 and 36% this year). We started the season off really sustaining offense, but subtract the right side of the line and we're stuck. But we have nothing to hang our hat on, no bread and butter play that will get us the conversion on 4th and short.

3. Our defensive identity is totally different than in '05. In '05 we were punishing people, GW's aggressive blitz schemes were forcing turnovers and we hit people. Now we hit people, but because of the fear of the long ball we no longer blitz. That's just crazy, because we don't have the d-line to consistently pressure the qb. Maybe GW will open it up once the offense turns around, but right now we're playing "First team to 21 points wins" kind of football and it sucks to watch.

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

[QUOTE=memphisskin;372251]Reading the article it is clear that the problem begins at the top, Gibbs hasn't been doing his homework in version 2.0.

1. Clinton Portis has been miscast as a smashmouth running back. I love Portis, but clearly he has broken down due to how he has been used here. It just doesn't fit, would you use your Porsche to haul firewood? And last year we effectively borrowed the neighbor's truck (TJ Duckett) and kept it in the garage while we found our own truck (Ladell Betts) could carry the load.

2. We have no offensive identity. I personally hate it when we reference 2005 like it was an offensive renaissance. The only thing we really did better then was sustain drives (42% 3rd down conversion in '05 compared to 37% in '06 and 36% this year). We started the season off really sustaining offense, but subtract the right side of the line and we're stuck. But we have nothing to hang our hat on, no bread and butter play that will get us the conversion on 4th and short.

3. Our defensive identity is totally different than in '05. In '05 we were punishing people, GW's aggressive blitz schemes were forcing turnovers and we hit people. Now we hit people, but because of the fear of the long ball we no longer blitz. That's just crazy, because we don't have the d-line to consistently pressure the qb. Maybe GW will open it up once the offense turns around, but right now we're playing "First team to 21 points wins" kind of football and it sucks to watch.[/QUOTE]

Very good post. I don't necessarily agree with everything you said, but it was said well.

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

Rock bottom is a cold, hard place. Once you hit it, you begin to look over where you came from and start to do things differently. It's much easier for us fans to look and see problems because we're not a part of it. We're proud to be on the outside looking in, but sometimes a reality check is best served after a good ass-whipping.

Glad to hear some of the veterans have stepped up in Jansen's absence and start to take leadership roles. Usually a team looks to its QB, but when the QB is still wet behind the ears, others have to step up.

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

The problem is Al Saunders and Campbell. Al Saunders is calling the plays and they suck.
Campbell is not as accurate as he show be. So you guys tell who is the bigger problem Al or JC? Two years ago people were saying the offense was bad; however, ask the 49ers about the 50 points we put up.

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

Whatever they have been doing it doesn't work. Back to basic sounds like a fantastic idea to me...that's how good teams operate. They line up, no shifts no trickery, and just play.


Also, I not sure what these changes mean for Saunders but I can't imagine them being a good thing for his career. Could he be on his way out after the season?

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

[QUOTE=saden1;372278]Also, I not sure what these changes mean for Saunders but I can't imagine them being a good thing for his career. Could he be on his way out after the season?[/QUOTE]

I don't think we should evaluate things until the season's end. But, if I had to guess right now, I'd say that Al is gone come January. It's pretty evident that Al and Joe don't mix. In theory, they might espouse the same offensive philosophy, but, in reality, it seems like they want this offense to go in two different directions.

The shame is that bringing in a new offensive coordinator will likely stunt JC's growth. Worse still, bringing in a new OC will likely mean that we will have to wait until 2009 to field a potent offense.

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

[quote=saden1;372278]Whatever they have been doing it doesn't work. Back to basic sounds like a fantastic idea to me...that's how good teams operate. They line up, no shifts no trickery, and just play.


Also, I not sure what these changes mean for Saunders but I can't imagine them being a good thing for his career. [B]Could he be on his way out after the season[/B]?[/quote]

That's certainly a good question.

I really don't know at this point. I guess it depends on how the rest of the season goes and if Gibbs returns next year. There's too many things up in the air to say either way I think.

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

[QUOTE=saden1;372278]Whatever they have been doing it doesn't work. Back to basic sounds like a fantastic idea to me...that's how good teams operate. They line up, no shifts no trickery, and just play.


Also, I not sure what these changes mean for Saunders but I can't imagine them being a good thing for his career. Could he be on his way out after the season?[/QUOTE]

He should have been out last year!!!

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;372232]Personally I'm just getting tired of people pointing to the Patriots and saying, why can't we do what they do, or why can't we be like them?

The answer is there are 31 teams in the league that are NOT the Patriots. If it were that easy everyone would be doing what the Patriots do. The fact is the Patriots are a perfect blend of talent, drive, coaching, and execution. What they've done not only this year but in this decade is rare.[/QUOTE]

I'm not really convinced that that is what people are saying here. Nobody believes what the Patriots are doing can be duplicated.

What bothers me is that after nearly four years -- plenty of time in football terms -- the gap between the progress of the New England Patriots and the progress of our team is absurd. They are light years ahead of us. And before anyone says the same is true for every other team, just remember: The Pats haven't beaten anyone as bad as they beat the Redskins.

The fact remains that we should have been closer to New England than what we saw.

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

Forget the pats--we've got to clean up our own house right now.

My feeling about the "back to basics" thing is that it may not be back to Gibbs' basics as much as back to what this team can do--I don't think they have the o-line to smash many mouths, but they may have the o-line to do other things. In fact, it might be that they STOP trying to smash it, and start trying to move a bit more and use the athletic ability of people like Rabach, for example.

As for progress ,we're 4-3 with the season ahead of us. One thing that's often lost here is how much of football is momentum and confidence. We don't have either right now. But when we get that (if we do), lots of things that are not working now will work. It's a game of inches, and if we can find a way to get that inch, things will open up, IMO.

As for Saunders--we'll see. I'm not convinced that he and Gibbs cannot work together, and that's something they've got to figure out, fast, if they are messing radically with things. My feeling is it won't be so radical, but it will still be Saunders. That may ham-string Saunders with his big playbook, but it may give us a chance to finally execute some of his plays, which we haven't done to this point, at least not consistently.

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

[quote=Beemnseven;372294]I'm not really convinced that that is what people are saying here. Nobody believes what the Patriots are doing can be duplicated.

What bothers me is that after nearly four years -- plenty of time in football terms -- the gap between the progress of the New England Patriots and the progress of our team is absurd. They are light years ahead of us. And before anyone says the same is true for every other team, just remember: The Pats haven't beaten anyone as bad as they beat the Redskins.

The fact remains that we should have been closer to New England than what we saw.[/quote]

The Pats are light years ahead of the majority of the league, let's not kid ourselves.

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

"If you can run it, draw people to the line of scrimmage, then you can pass it. They go hand in hand."

No, they don't go hand in hand. Not anymore Joe. This is the 80's early 90 mentality. Gibbs is never ever going to adjust to today's NFL. When is this guy ever going to realize that it is a passing league now? The rules beg you to pass it. DB's can't even breathe on the WR's yet we don't have one single wr with a passing TD. You should be able to pass it with the guys you brought in here w/out having to run it all the time. Same old crap.

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

Hey does anyone have an image of the T-Shirts Cartwright came up with fromt he article? I would love to get my hands on one. If not I would like to see it. I love the quote.

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

[quote=skinsfan69;372310]"If you can run it, draw people to the line of scrimmage, then you can pass it. They go hand in hand."

No, they don't go hand in hand. Not anymore Joe. This is the 80's early 90 mentality. Gibbs is never ever going to adjust to today's NFL. When is this guy ever going to realize that it is a passing league now? The rules beg you to pass it. DB's can't even breathe on the WR's yet we don't have one single wr with a passing TD. You should be able to pass it with the guys you brought in here w/out having to run it all the time. Same old crap.[/quote]

Tell that to teams like the Steelers and Jags who still play a smashmouth, run first style of play.

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;372321]Tell that to teams like the Steelers and Jags who still play a smashmouth, run first style of play.[/QUOTE]

Or to our [B]11th ranked 2005 offense[/B] which ran the ball over everyone and their momma. I believe Gibbs called the plays for that offense.

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

I like it a whole lot. But honestly I thought that is what they were doing and they were just getting stopped.

I hope this means Run alot, spread out and run, go over the top and hit Cooley in the middle. Run again and again and again and when they stuff it hit them over the top and then run again.

Re: AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!
 

[quote=skinsfan69;372310]"If you can run it, draw people to the line of scrimmage, then you can pass it. They go hand in hand."

No, they don't go hand in hand. Not anymore Joe. This is the 80's early 90 mentality. Gibbs is never ever going to adjust to today's NFL. When is this guy ever going to realize that it is a passing league now? The rules beg you to pass it. DB's can't even breathe on the WR's yet we don't have one single wr with a passing TD. You should be able to pass it with the guys you brought in here w/out having to run it all the time. Same old crap.[/quote]

What? They do go hand in hand. You run the ball to setup your passing game...that's Football 101...it has been, it is, and will forever be.