Campbell Questions
 

First off, let me preface my comments by saying that I thought Jason Campbell was pretty damn impressive yesterday. That said, I have questions concerning two key areas of his game:

1) Accuracy. It seems that when he leads a receiver across the field he is almost always throwing behind them. Do you think this is due to the inconsistency at the wideout position this year or is it mechanics? Is that something that will improve with time or is it basically how it's going to be?

2) Fumbling. It seems like he kind of holds the ball back and far away from his body while standing in the pocket, which makes it easy for an outside pass rusher to knock it out of his hands. I think Aikman mentioned during the broadcast that he is second in the NFL in fumbles. This I'm sure can be fixed with good coaching.

Re: Campbell Questions
 

His accuracy on the season is up to 60% now. Just think of all the drops he's had too. I don't see his accuracy as being a major concern. He's continuing to improve and will keep doing so with experience and by working with his WRs more. The WRs have been beat up all year, if anything we should probably be even more impressed with what Campbell has done with a limited group of WRs.

He does need to shore up the fumbles, but I think yesterday was just a good play by the defender more than anything.

Re: Campbell Questions
 

i think your right about the fumbling being corrected through coaching. as far as throwing behind the recievers goes, ive noticed something, his arms are so long that his release takes a while to come around. If you notice he struggles throwing those screen passes to the outside reciever, i think it just takes more time, which could explain why in a crossing route its behind the reciever as well. he makes up for the long throwing motion with a rocket arm. Maybe its just something ive noticed, i just dont see that quick snap, and on crossing routes you almost have to have a quick release to your guy.

Re: Campbell Questions
 

Campbell had no chance on the Ware hit. You could see that fumble coming as soon as Ware got a great jump on the snap.

My biggest concern is Campbell missing game changing deep TDs with overthrows. He missed a wide-open Moss on a bomb to ice the first Philly game. He missed a wide open Lloyd to take the lead in the 4th quarter against GB. And he missed a wide open Moss for the lead against Dallas just after the 2 minute warning yesterday. I'm convinced that he will be an elite QB, but he MUST start hitting game changing plays when they're there for the taking. A defense might break down only a handful of times a game. I saw Romo hitting for TDs whenever our D broke down. Campbell has to start doing the same.

Re: Campbell Questions
 

I have seen a major improvement though in Campbell. I am very happy with what im seeing so far out of his first full year starting.

Re: Campbell Questions
 

[quote=SouperMeister;380286]Campbell had no chance on the Ware hit. You could see that fumble coming as soon as Ware got a great jump on the snap.

My biggest concern is Campbell missing game changing deep TDs with overthrows. He missed a wide-open Moss on a bomb to ice the first Philly game. He missed a wide open Lloyd to take the lead in the 4th quarter against GB. And he missed a wide open Moss for the lead against Dallas just after the 2 minute warning yesterday. I'm convinced that he will be an elite QB, but he MUST start hitting game changing plays when they're there for the taking. A defense might break down only a handful of times a game. I saw Romo hitting for TDs whenever our D broke down. Campbell has to start doing the same.[/quote]

there was a huge difference in how open Owens was compared to our guys. I know Romo has a good arm, but i wouldnt say him hitting T.O. yesterday was impressive, nobody was ever near him. The throw to Santana would have had to have been perfect.

Re: Campbell Questions
 

How do you improve a QB's accuracy though? Just reps? I didn't know if that was something it improves or not. I mean, McNabb has been in the league how long now and he still throws 4 or 5 bounce passes per game.

Re: Campbell Questions
 

[QUOTE=BleedBurgundy;380275]First off, let me preface my comments by saying that I thought Jason Campbell was pretty damn impressive yesterday. That said, I have questions concerning two key areas of his game:

1) Accuracy. It seems that when he leads a receiver across the field he is almost always throwing behind them. Do you think this is due to the inconsistency at the wideout position this year or is it mechanics? Is that something that will improve with time or is it basically how it's going to be?

2) Fumbling. It seems like he kind of holds the ball back and far away from his body while standing in the pocket, which makes it easy for an outside pass rusher to knock it out of his hands. I think Aikman mentioned during the broadcast that he is second in the NFL in fumbles. This I'm sure can be fixed with good coaching.[/QUOTE]

His accuracy wasn't a real issue in college.Granted the nfl is a different world but I think its like you stated. Inconsistency at the wideouts.

As far as fumbling Tiki Barber was the king. A different posistion mind you but a fumble is a fumble. The giants leprechaun looking coach helped him with that. Im sure JC will come around.

Re: Campbell Questions
 

[quote=BleedBurgundy;380289]How do you improve a QB's accuracy though? Just reps? I didn't know if that was something it improves or not. I mean, McNabb has been in the league how long now and he still throws 4 or 5 bounce passes per game.[/quote]

With a young QB I think a lot of it has to do with getting comfortable in the system and getting some chemistry going with the WRs.

Last year he was around 53%, this year he's up to 60%. That's a significant improvement and we still have 6 games to go.

Re: Campbell Questions
 

[QUOTE=SouperMeister;380286]Campbell had no chance on the Ware hit. You could see that fumble coming as soon as Ware got a great jump on the snap.

My biggest concern is Campbell missing game changing deep TDs with overthrows. He missed a wide-open Moss on a bomb to ice the first Philly game. He missed a wide open Lloyd to take the lead in the 4th quarter against GB. And he missed a wide open Moss for the lead against Dallas just after the 2 minute warning yesterday. I'm convinced that he will be an elite QB, but he MUST start hitting game changing plays when they're there for the taking. A defense might break down only a handful of times a game. I saw Romo hitting for TDs whenever our D broke down. Campbell has to start doing the same.[/QUOTE]


I completely agree. Yesterday's fumble can't be attributed to JC's problems with protecting the football, such as he had in the Patriots game. Sometimes your quarterback is going to get blindsided, and no quarterback is immune from a fumble when that happens. Secondly, I also think that putting the soft touch on the deep balls for receivers that have a step or two on the defender is the bigger problem for him. No doubt, he had receivers reaching behind them for his passes several times yesterday, but he did in fact make some nice leads on some down-field and sideline passes (by the way, how great was it to see us throwing over the middle! First time in three years!). However, he again, as Aikman pointed out, couldn't make a touch pass on the deep routes. That's what he really needs help with.

Re: Campbell Questions
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;380293]With a young QB I think a lot of it has to do with getting comfortable in the system and getting some chemistry going with the WRs.

Last year he was around 53%, this year he's up to 60%. That's a significant improvement and we still have 6 games to go.[/QUOTE]

good point. I'd be curious to see the breakdown of his completions, what types of passes they were, how far down the field was he throwing, etc. It seems that we've not been throwing a lot of dink and dunk this year so he must be really improving. (at the current improvement rate of 7% per year, he'll be hitting 100% of his passes in 2014! :silly:)

Re: Campbell Questions
 

Samuels had no help all day, and was left on an island to keep DeMarcus Ware at bay. While he did ok, there were times he got beat worse than a red-headed stepchild on whippin' day. Campbell will learn to be more aware and protect the football with more and more experience.

As far as his errant throws go, the only thing that can improve that is reps. Which he'll get because I don't forsee him losing his job anytime soon. He was very impressive yesterday against a quality defense.

Re: Campbell Questions
 

[quote=BleedBurgundy;380289]How do you improve a QB's accuracy though? Just reps? I didn't know if that was something it improves or not. I mean, McNabb has been in the league how long now and he still throws 4 or 5 bounce passes per game.[/quote]

These guys are not machines. Everyone can't be Tom Brady. Carson Palmer, who I think is really really good played like shit yesterday. It happens.

From what I see JC has to get better with leading his wr's when they come of of their breaks. It's making the read quicker and then throwing it quicker. No one did it better than Kurt Warner when he played in this offense. He would throw the ball before the wr came out of his break. Jc hasn't gotten that part down yet.

Re: Campbell Questions
 

It'll come--he's been showing steady improvement, and he's got the arm to make the throws. Plus, as was mentioned, he hits that throw in college, and, I imagine, in practice. It will come.

Good game by JC--tough pick at the end. Wish ST were playing.

TB is the season--Dallas in Dallas was tough, and would have been a great win. But the key is TB.

Re: Campbell Questions
 

[quote=SouperMeister;380286]Campbell had no chance on the Ware hit. You could see that fumble coming as soon as Ware got a great jump on the snap.

My biggest concern is Campbell missing game changing deep TDs with overthrows. He missed a wide-open Moss on a bomb to ice the first Philly game. He missed a wide open Lloyd to take the lead in the 4th quarter against GB. And he missed a wide open Moss for the lead against Dallas just after the 2 minute warning yesterday. I'm convinced that he will be an elite QB, but he MUST start hitting game changing plays when they're there for the taking. A defense might break down only a handful of times a game. I saw Romo hitting for TDs whenever our D broke down. Campbell has to start doing the same.[/quote]

Yes...he also missed a wide open Cooley for a sure touchdown yesterday too. He really needs to shore up that part of his game. One of the reasons he was drafted was his ability to throw the long ball with accuracy, but I haven't seen that materialize with any sort of consistency yet. Once he gets that down, he will be dangerous...Chances are next year will be his true breakout year providing we have any money to give him some weapons to work with. He's getting better every week.

Re: Campbell Questions
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;380323]Yes...he also missed a wide open Cooley for a sure touchdown yesterday too. He really needs to shore up that part of his game. One of the reasons he was drafted was his ability to throw the long ball with accuracy, but I haven't seen that materialize with any sort of consistency yet. Once he gets that down, he will be dangerous...Chances are next year will be his true breakout year providing we have any money to give him some weapons to work with. He's getting better every week.[/quote]With Moss, ARE, and Cooley, he has the weapons, he just has to be allowed to utilize them. These last two weeks, we've finally seen the reigns lifted. If we could add a tall WR for a modest price in free agency, that might be the only missing piece for the red zone passing game.

Re: Campbell Questions
 

[QUOTE=SouperMeister;380420]With Moss, ARE, and Cooley, he has the weapons, he just has to be allowed to utilize them. These last two weeks, we've finally seen the reigns lifted. I[B]f we could add a tall WR for a modest price in free agency[/B], that might be the only missing piece for the red zone passing game.[/QUOTE]

The Jaguars Reggie Williams. I was watching the Jacksonville / San Diego game yesterday and he had a pretty good game. I know, he really isn't consistent but he is big and probably won't ask for a lot considering he barely made the team this year.
I'm not sure if it's his contract year though...

Re: Campbell Questions
 

[QUOTE=BleedBurgundy;380289]How do you improve a QB's accuracy though? Just reps? I didn't know if that was something it improves or not. I mean, McNabb has been in the league how long now and he still throws 4 or 5 bounce passes per game.[/QUOTE]

What he needs to do is recognize the route and the defense quicker, I think by the time he realizes whats happening down field he is a little behind, that could be from lack of experience, the more he plays the slower the game will become for him, the sooner he should start recognizing coverages, the quicker he can get the ball out, I think that is his problem right now, I think he can throw the ball accurately but he's a little behind in his mind right now, he needs to anticipate when a receiver is about to break open and get rid of it, that will allow him to lead the WR, not wait until it happens because then there is usually a safety closing in which may cause him subconsciously to throw behind the wr. He also needs to survey the field better when his primary is covered.

His deep ball needs a lot of work!

The good thing is he's being allowed to throw, we now can see him start to develop, he had a nice game yesterday but he still threw an inexcusable INT that cost us the game, Dallas couldn't cover our WR's yesterday, if he stayed patient, and smart we win that game late.

Re: Campbell Questions
 

[quote=offiss;380625]What he needs to do is recognize the route and the defense quicker, I think by the time he realizes whats happening down field he is a little behind, that could be from lack of experience, the more he plays the slower the game will become for him, the sooner he should start recognizing coverages, the quicker he can get the ball out, I think that is his problem right now, I think he can throw the ball accurately but he's a little behind in his mind right now, he needs to anticipate when a receiver is about to break open and get rid of it, that will allow him to lead the WR, not wait until it happens because then there is usually a safety closing in which may cause him subconsciously to throw behind the wr. He also needs to survey the field better when his primary is covered.

His deep ball needs a lot of work!

The good thing is he's being allowed to throw, we now can see him start to develop, he had a nice game yesterday but he still threw an inexcusable INT that cost us the game, Dallas couldn't cover our WR's yesterday, if he stayed patient, and smart we win that game late.[/quote]
That int really hurt. If I'm correct he had El open to his left and from what I heard yesterday on the Riggo show CP rolled right and no one covered him and he could have walked into the endzone.

Re: Campbell Questions
 

I understand him not seeing the whole field yet. I think that def comes with time. I'm more concerned with seeing things that you can't coach. I can't remember seeing a qb who was inaccurate in the early stages of their career become accurate later on. Not saying it doesn't happen, just saying I don't remember it. As several others have already noted, the timing will come. But accuracy and timing are different. He's nowhere near as innacurate as some other qbs in the game but he does seem to deliver it a little high (could be that our receivers accentuate this with their lack of height.)

Re: Campbell Questions
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;380323]Yes...he also missed a wide open Cooley for a sure touchdown yesterday too. He really needs to shore up that part of his game. One of the reasons he was drafted was his ability to throw the long ball with accuracy, but I haven't seen that materialize with any sort of consistency yet. Once he gets that down, he will be dangerous...Chances are next year will be his true breakout year providing we have any money to give him some weapons to work with. He's getting better every week.[/quote]

Don't fall into the trap of listening to everything the announcers said (even if Aikman is usually on point). Watching the particular play you mentioned Jason put the ball right where it needed to be, low where Cooley could make a play but the defenders (who were around him) could not. Bottom line, Cooley dropped that one. The overthrow to Moss might also be excused somewhat since the DE (maybe Ware, can't remember) was right on him. The INT was the killer but he knows he was wrong, said he was wrong, and he'll learn from it.

The most encouraging thing about JC is that, from everything we heard this offseason, he is a worker and you can even see him improving week to week during the season. He has improved his release and footwork from last year and I think he has also improved his downfield throws just from the beginning of the year (he hasn't had another deep shot to Moss yet, but the last real deep one he put up a few weeks ago was not as flat as it was against Philadelphia). He's not like some of these guys (Grossman, Eli, Carr, Leftwich, et al.) who don't seem to really work at their craft. Those guys were all high picks (and admittedly I haven't watched them extensively) but every time I see them they make the same errors in mechanics whenever things get mildly tough (Eli's patented eyes closed back footed falling down throw, Grossman's similarly wretched mechanics, Leftwich's deliberate and looping release). They don't seem willing to take coaching and get better, so far Jason looks like a different animal.

Re: Campbell Questions
 

why are some people enamored with a TALL receiver? what in the world does that have to do with accuracy? if the throw is on the money, it doesn't matter how tall the player is. Campbell has made great strides in his brief career. and any skins fan should be excited for what is about to come. the more he works with these guys, the more accurate he will become

Re: Campbell Questions
 

To Campbells defense, he did throw the ball over 50 times. One pick out of 50+ throws 300+ yards is pretty good, on the other hand Romo should have had 3-4 picks.

Re: Campbell Questions
 

[QUOTE=dmek25;380808]why are some people enamored with a TALL receiver? what in the world does that have to do with accuracy? if the throw is on the money, it doesn't matter how tall the player is. Campbell has made great strides in his brief career. and any skins fan should be excited for what is about to come. the more he works with these guys, the more accurate he will become[/QUOTE]

I'm not enamored with a tall receiver, I'm saying a smaller target is harder to hit. He seems a little high with his throws and I think with guys that are 6'3" instead of 5'10" he'd have a little more margin for error. It's not a shot at our receivers or campbell.

Re: Campbell Questions
 

[quote=BleedBurgundy;380805]I understand him not seeing the whole field yet. I think that def comes with time. I'm more concerned with seeing things that you can't coach. I can't remember seeing a qb who was inaccurate in the early stages of their career become accurate later on. Not saying it doesn't happen, just saying I don't remember it. As several others have already noted, the timing will come. But accuracy and timing are different. He's nowhere near as innacurate as some other qbs in the game but he does seem to deliver it a little high (could be that our receivers accentuate this with their lack of height.)[/quote]

Football Outsiders (which I must admit can be kind of hit and miss with their predictions) argues that the most important predictors of future success for QBs drafted in the first two rounds (apparently it gets a little tougher from there due to various factors) and passing percentage and number of starts. Their predictive software loves Jason Campbell, though they had to temper some of those predictions when they took into account it was Jason's first year starting, because of those factors.

At Auburn Jason's stats were:

- 2001 - 9 games - 89/142 62.7%
- 2002 - 11 games - 94/149 63.1%
- 2003 - 13 games - 181/293 61.8%
- 2004 - 13 games - 188/270 69.6%

and that is playing the SEC ... I try not to get too geeked, but I love the guy.

Re: Campbell Questions
 

[QUOTE=SC Skins Fan;380806]Don't fall into the trap of listening to everything the announcers said (even if Aikman is usually on point). [B]Watching the particular play you mentioned Jason put the ball right where it needed to be, low where Cooley could make a play but the defenders (who were around him) could not. Bottom line, Cooley dropped that one.[/B] The overthrow to Moss might also be excused somewhat since the DE (maybe Ware, can't remember) was right on him. The INT was the killer but he knows he was wrong, said he was wrong, and he'll learn from it.

The most encouraging thing about JC is that, from everything we heard this offseason, he is a worker and you can even see him improving week to week during the season. He has improved his release and footwork from last year and I think he has also improved his downfield throws just from the beginning of the year (he hasn't had another deep shot to Moss yet, but the last real deep one he put up a few weeks ago was not as flat as it was against Philadelphia). He's not like some of these guys (Grossman, Eli, Carr, Leftwich, et al.) who don't seem to really work at their craft. Those guys were all high picks (and admittedly I haven't watched them extensively) but every time I see them they make the same errors in mechanics whenever things get mildly tough (Eli's patented eyes closed back footed falling down throw, Grossman's similarly wretched mechanics, Leftwich's deliberate and looping release). They don't seem willing to take coaching and get better, so far Jason looks like a different animal.[/QUOTE]

I thought the exact same thing when I watched that play.

Re: Campbell Questions
 

[quote=SC Skins Fan;380812]Football Outsiders (which I must admit can be kind of hit and miss with their predictions) argues that the most important predictors of future success for QBs drafted in the first two rounds (apparently it gets a little tougher from there due to various factors) and passing percentage and number of starts. Their predictive software loves Jason Campbell, though they had to temper some of those predictions when they took into account it was Jason's first year starting, because of those factors.

At Auburn Jason's stats were:

- 2001 - 9 games - 89/142 62.7%
- 2002 - 11 games - 94/149 63.1%
- 2003 - 13 games - 181/293 61.8%
- 2004 - 13 games - 188/270 69.6%

and that is playing the SEC ... I try not to get too geeked, but I love the guy.[/quote]When Dave Lewin wrote the QB projection system he found that QB success rate was about 60% GS and 40% completion percentage in college stats.

However, taking his original work, it seems that based on the failures of Vince Young, Tim Couch, and of Alex Smith (three guys that the system had highly rated), and the relative success of JP Losman (who didn't complete a great % in college), I've decided that the system is pretty accurate, but is more accurate if it is weighed higher in terms of games started.

A guy who starts 45 games and completes 58% of his passes is far more valuable in my opinion than a guy who starts 31 games and completes 65% of his passes. Games started always has to be the first thing a scout looks at when grading the [B]top tier[/B] draft prospects.

Anyway, this only goes to show that Jason Campbell should be even better over time.

Re: Campbell Questions
 

[quote=SC Skins Fan;380806]Don't fall into the trap of listening to everything the announcers said (even if Aikman is usually on point). Watching the particular play you mentioned Jason put the ball right where it needed to be, low where Cooley could make a play but the defenders (who were around him) could not. Bottom line, Cooley dropped that one. The overthrow to Moss might also be excused somewhat since the DE (maybe Ware, can't remember) was right on him. The INT was the killer but he knows he was wrong, said he was wrong, and he'll learn from it.

The most encouraging thing about JC is that, from everything we heard this offseason, he is a worker and you can even see him improving week to week during the season. He has improved his release and footwork from last year and I think he has also improved his downfield throws just from the beginning of the year (he hasn't had another deep shot to Moss yet, but the last real deep one he put up a few weeks ago was not as flat as it was against Philadelphia). He's not like some of these guys (Grossman, Eli, Carr, Leftwich, et al.) who don't seem to really work at their craft. Those guys were all high picks (and admittedly I haven't watched them extensively) but every time I see them they make the same errors in mechanics whenever things get mildly tough (Eli's patented eyes closed back footed falling down throw, Grossman's similarly wretched mechanics, Leftwich's deliberate and looping release). They don't seem willing to take coaching and get better, so far Jason looks like a different animal.[/quote]

I wasn't speaking of the low throw at the five yard line or whatever it was. I'm talking about the double move Cooley put on the corner/safety and ended up with inside position on both, and JC threw the ball too far and too inside out of reach...was a sure touchdown if it was an accurate throw.

Re: Campbell Questions
 

[quote=dmek25;380808]why are some people enamored with a TALL receiver? what in the world does that have to do with accuracy? if the throw is on the money, it doesn't matter how tall the player is. Campbell has made great strides in his brief career. and any skins fan should be excited for what is about to come. the more he works with these guys, the more accurate he will become[/quote]Having a tall receiver is a HUGE advantage once you're in the red zone - he presents a much larger target, and can generally outjump pint-sized DB's on any high passes. The first TD to Owens is the kind of play that we just cannot run consistently well, hence, we bog down inside the 10 on numerous occasions. Even a good DB with size like Springs has no chance one-on-one against a bigger stronger man like TO on that play.

I'd argue that TO's size would have allowed him to get his hands on the pass that was too high for Moss at the end of the game.

Re: Campbell Questions
 

About the fumbles... I want him to correct them, but I'm also very very glad we don't have a qb who makes the pass rush one of his first reads during his progression... a la brunell/ramsey.

as he gets more experience he'll be getting rid of the ball faster and taking pressure off of our tackles, which should also help our running game...

Re: Campbell Questions
 

I would like to see JC stop holding the ball down by his hip and more up near his ear. It right in the D-linemen's swatting range. I think holding the ball so low is a function of his buggy-whip delivery which I hope the coaches help him tighten up his delivery.