What angers us most about Sean Taylors death
 

What pi*sses me off the MOST about the death of Sean Taylor is that if our justice system actually worked for the people instead of the thugs, Sean Taylor would be alive today.

This is from an Associated Press report on the suspects:

[quote=Associated Press]
The suspects all have prior arrests, according to police, including drug, theft and [B]gun charges[/B], though friends and family have defended them.[/quote]

If they had PRIOR gun charges, then WTF were they doing out on in the streets? If the justice system would have done the job right and put these guys away when they displayed a tendency to carry DEADLY weapons and commit violent acts, then Sean would be here today. That right! If the justice system had done the job that the taxpayers are paying for, and done it right the FIRST time, this tragedy would never have happened.

The damn courts responsible for letting these guys "off" the last time are just as responsible as if they pulled the damn trigger.

Sorry, it just INFURIATES me to no end. This sensless killing could have been prevented.

Re: What angers us most about Sean Taylors death
 

This will quickly turn into a debate over the rights of the accused, sentencing guidelines, and the general principle that someone can pay their debt to society by serving time.

Re: What angers us most about Sean Taylors death
 

I don't think we can blame this on that. In fairness, there's a chance Sean Taylor could be in jail right now on gun charges (which at this point is starting to seem like a damn nice alternative) from his previous actions. Typically, I think the justice system is overly harsh on folks. We can't put everyone in jail for their offenses. I'd also be very curious the exact charges these guys had. Arrests on charges also doesn't mean convictions. I've been arrested for "Contributing the the delinquency of minors", does that mean I was found guilty because 19 year olds drank some of my booze? (The answer is no, I got it thrown out), but still -- I was arrested for it.

Sandtrap: I know you're a Dallas fan -- should Tank Johnson be behind bars right now? He was arrested and convicted of gun charges. Enough for a small army if I remember correctly. Personally, I feel like he did his time and learned his lesson, but I'm curious what you think.

Re: What angers us most about Sean Taylors death
 

For me it's simple, if he wasn't hurt he would have been with the team and not at home. But either way, we could play the "what if" game all we want, in the end Taylor is gone and we have to move on.

Re: What angers us most about Sean Taylors death
 

Amen Matty. What if that bullet sails a quarter inch to the left. We're talking about Taylor rehabbing and playing next season. Just a terrible turn of events.

Re: What angers us most about Sean Taylors death
 

My question is Un-Premeditated Murder is totally crazy because Report said the phone lines were cut and one of the guys had a gun..If they didnt anticipate Sean being home or just doing a basic robbery why Cut the phone lines and carry a gun into the home??just those 2 facts alone should make it 1st degree murder ..which would carry death penalty in florida,but for some reason that isnt being used as a option.That is what makes me Mad about this whole deal.

Re: What angers us most about Sean Taylors death
 

I think the report about the phone lines being cut ended up being false.

Re: What angers us most about Sean Taylors death
 

[quote]My question is Un-Premeditated Murder is totally crazy because Report said the phone lines were cut and one of the guys had a gun..If they didnt anticipate Sean being home or just doing a basic robbery why Cut the phone lines and carry a gun into the home??just those 2 facts alone should make it 1st degree murder ..which would carry death penalty in florida,but for some reason that isnt being used as a option.That is what makes me Mad about this whole deal.[/quote]
That's a tough argument to make. These guys carry guns for their protection. I believe most criminals hope to NOT have to use the gun, but it's something that's often necessary unfortunately. When homeowners have guns, you kinda have to match that. I'm not trying to defend these idiots, but I'm trying to explain why they might do what they did.

As far as the phone lines, that's enigmatic to me. No one seems to know. At first they said the lines were cut, then I heard they weren't cut. The police said that ST's fiance had trouble operating the phone, whatever that means. Cpayne in another thread suggested maybe they took the phone off the hook and dialed a number. That would make the phone useless. If they did cut the lines, theres definitely something to premeditated argument.

Re: What angers us most about Sean Taylors death
 

[quote=Daseal;388604]I don't think we can blame this on that. In fairness, there's a chance Sean Taylor could be in jail right now on gun charges (which at this point is starting to seem like a damn nice alternative) from his previous actions. Typically, I think the justice system is overly harsh on folks. We can't put everyone in jail for their offenses. I'd also be very curious the exact charges these guys had. Arrests on charges also doesn't mean convictions. I've been arrested for "Contributing the the delinquency of minors", does that mean I was found guilty because 19 year olds drank some of my booze? (The answer is no, I got it thrown out), but still -- I was arrested for it.

Sandtrap: I know you're a Dallas fan -- should Tank Johnson be behind bars right now? He was arrested and convicted of gun charges. Enough for a small army if I remember correctly. Personally, I feel like he did his time and learned his lesson, but I'm curious what you think.[/quote]

No Tank should not. Totally different set of circumstances. Tank never committed theft or burgalry or drug charges. Tank was a gun enthusiast, he collects guns as a hobby. But the guns were obtained legally. He displayed poor judgement, yes. But he did not commit burglary, theft or engage in drug activities. And he had no priors on gun related or violent acts. These guys DID.

I will promise you that prior to the Taylor shooting that the "resume" of these alledged assailants will reveal that it included all of the above, probably more than once. In other words that ALREADY HAD THEIR SECOND OR EVEN THIRD CHANCE AT STRAIGHTENING THIER ACT UP. And now we see how well that turned out.

Like Seans past discretions and gun charges. He accepted responsibility for his actions and he DID NOT DO IT AGAIN. Not these punks, they have been caught before and then allowed to roam the streets and prey on innocent people.

Re: What angers us most about Sean Taylors death
 

SandTrapJack, I totally agree with you on this. The only problem is the jails. We don't have enough prison space for all fugitives. If the government wouldn't be going into war all the time, we could build up our economy and make more prison space, rather than having to continually spend money on military to defend ourselves and go on the offensive end.

Re: What angers us most about Sean Taylors death
 

[QUOTE=Daseal;388623]That's a tough argument to make. [COLOR="Black"][B]These guys carry guns for their protection. [/B][/COLOR] I believe most criminals hope to NOT have to use the gun, but it's something that's often necessary unfortunately. When homeowners have guns, you kinda have to match that. I'm not trying to defend these idiots, but I'm trying to explain why they might do what they did.

As far as the phone lines, that's enigmatic to me. No one seems to know. At first they said the lines were cut, then I heard they weren't cut. The police said that ST's fiance had trouble operating the phone, whatever that means. Cpayne in another thread suggested maybe they took the phone off the hook and dialed a number. That would make the phone useless. If they did cut the lines, theres definitely something to premeditated argument.[/QUOTE]


They need them for their own protection because they live criminal lifestyles. SO they need a gun because the homeowner they're trying to rob might legally own a gun for legitimate self defense? How do you even type that? That argument doesn't hold water with me. You kill someone in their own home, you get executed. Not in 20 years, as soon as you're found guilty. Walk 'em outside and line em up against the wall. I know that's harsh but who deserves our sympathy? The victim or the murderer?

Re: What angers us most about Sean Taylors death
 

[QUOTE=sandtrapjack;388569]What pi*sses me off the MOST about the death of Sean Taylor is that if our justice system actually worked for the people instead of the thugs, Sean Taylor would be alive today.

If they had PRIOR gun charges, then WTF were they doing out on in the streets?[/QUOTE]



.....I bet you were singing a different tune when Sean Taylor picked up gun charges.

Re: What angers us most about Sean Taylors death
 

What makes me so mad about this is that it was so fucking uneccessary. If they didnt want to kill him why take the damn gun and why shoot it. you could just point it at him and say get on the ground I am pretty sure he would have done what you said. Damn jackasses. I hope they fry and I hope it HURTS.

Re: What angers us most about Sean Taylors death
 

[quote=Mwoody85;388679].....I bet you were singing a different tune when Sean Taylor picked up gun charges.[/quote]


Sean Taylor gun charges was blown out of proportion and on top of that these guys have been arrested at least twice for the same shit Sean accepted responibility and stopped using guns.

Re: What angers us most about Sean Taylors death
 

[QUOTE=EARTHQUAKE2689;388680]What makes me so mad about this is that it was so fucking uneccessary. If they didnt want to kill him why take the damn gun and why shoot it. you could just point it at him and say get on the ground I am pretty sure he would have done what you said. Damn jackasses. I hope they fry and I hope it HURTS.[/QUOTE]

That's just it. If you're ever in a situation where you think "I might need a gun" then you probably should evaluate yourself. I own a firearm for protection, it's in my nightstand ( i don't have children). I'm not saying you shouldn't have one, I'm saying that if you are committing a crime and take a weapon, you are considering using it, either against whoever you are harming through the crime itself or any law enforcement that try and apprehend you. Either way, you are irredeemable and deserve whatever punishment you get.

Re: What angers us most about Sean Taylors death
 

[QUOTE=EARTHQUAKE2689;388682]Sean Taylor gun charges was blown out of proportion and on top of that these guys have been arrested at least twice for the same shit Sean accepted responibility and stopped using guns.[/QUOTE]

Plus, it was never PROVEN that there was a gun involved. Just accusations.

Re: What angers us most about Sean Taylors death
 

[QUOTE=EARTHQUAKE2689;388682]Sean Taylor gun charges was blown out of proportion and on top of that these guys have been arrested at least twice for the same shit Sean accepted responibility and stopped using guns.[/QUOTE]

The problem with the media is they can sway thought patterns so easily. When a star commits a crime, every single person hears about it. But when someone that no one knows about commits a crime, no one hears about it until they do it to a star. Who knows how many NFL players have committed crimes? I bet we only hear about 15% of the crimes committed by NFL players.

What I'm trying to say is, stars usually get back to playing and never look back when they're charged with a crime because it's a warning to them and it's basically telling them that they'll never play football again if they commit another crime. Their passion is in the game of football, and they're not willing to continue committing crimes as long as they have football. Some of the players though, decide to continue with crime, and therefore that shows how little they care about the game.

Re: What angers us most about Sean Taylors death
 

[quote=sandtrapjack;388569]What pi*sses me off the MOST about the death of Sean Taylor is that if our justice system actually worked for the people instead of the thugs, Sean Taylor would be alive today.

This is from an Associated Press report on the suspects:



If they had PRIOR gun charges, then WTF were they doing out on in the streets? If the justice system would have done the job right and put these guys away when they displayed a tendency to carry DEADLY weapons and commit violent acts, then Sean would be here today. That right! If the justice system had done the job that the taxpayers are paying for, and done it right the FIRST time, this tragedy would never have happened.

The damn courts responsible for letting these guys "off" the last time are just as responsible as if they pulled the damn trigger.

Sorry, it just INFURIATES me to no end. This sensless killing could have been prevented.[/quote]
The only problem with your argument is that none of the defendants have shown a history of assault.

I've been waiting for this argument to come up. I've worked in the courts and law enforcement for 16 years. I've pretty much heard it all and can't really get worked up over it anymore. Bottom line, everything starts at home. Stop expecting the courts to raise your children for you.

Re: What angers us most about Sean Taylors death
 

I think the thing that infuriates me the most is if Sean is the type of guy that everyone who knew him says he was, then he probably would've just given these duchebags the money if they really needed it that bad and had just asked for it instead of trying to steal it.

Re: What angers us most about Sean Taylors death
 

[quote=Lady Brave;388700]The only problem with your argument is that none of the defendants have shown a history of assault.

I've been waiting for this argument to come up. I've worked in the courts and law enforcement for 16 years. I've pretty much heard it all and can't really get worked up over it anymore. Bottom line, everything starts at home. Stop expecting the courts to raise your children for you.[/quote]

Not expecting the courts to raise children. However I do expect and must insist that they hold people accountable for thier actions.

Thier job is to protect the public, plain and simple. Something went awry in this instance and Taylor paid the ultimate price.

Where did you hear that the defendants have not showm a history of assault? I have not heard that. That not withstanding, burgalry, theft and gun charges...hmmmm I can put 2 and 2 together and tell you that these are people who pose a clear and present danger to the public's safety. Hence get them off the street before they kill someone.

Too late.

So what do they tell Taylors family and little girl....

"OOPS" is about all they could muster.

How many times in our society have we witnessed this same string of circumstances? Person convicted of gun charges in January, is arrested for murder with a firearm in June. How many? Check CNN.COM and yo uwill see a story like this almost every day.

A registered sex offender/rapist is arrested and charged with kidnapping a little girl, raping and killing her.

It just happens too often in our society. And I am not talking about isolated instances/offenses. Hundreds of MULTIPLE OFFENDERS are let go with probation, or, poor management in the system.

And that is the reason I read that some of the posters here keep a gun in thier night stand. And why Taylor kept a weapon in his bedroom. Because there are a**hole predators out there put back in society by our courts, when thier criminal heistory clearly dictates that they be incarcerated.

I cannot accept "jail/prison over crowding" as an excuse, or, going to war is taking away funds to build new prisons. Capital offenses are at the state level and part of the state judicial systems and not the federal gov't. I cannot accept these excuses becasue this problem has been going on for generations and nothing has been done about it. They just say "overcrowding" and take that as an acceptable excuse. It's not.

China maybe an oppresive gov't, but when it comes to crime, especially violent crime, they are quick and decisive. Commit a violent crime in China, you are part of the weekly executions. Two bullets in the back of the head. And the expense of the bullets is charges to the condemned's family. Harsh and cold....yes. But that country has the largest population in the world, but has the LOWEST crime rate.

Re: What angers us most about Sean Taylors death
 

[quote]
They need them for their own protection because they live criminal lifestyles. SO they need a gun because the homeowner they're trying to rob might legally own a gun for legitimate self defense? How do you even type that? That argument doesn't hold water with me. You kill someone in their own home, you get executed. Not in 20 years, as soon as you're found guilty. Walk 'em outside and line em up against the wall. I know that's harsh but who deserves our sympathy? The victim or the murderer?[/quote]

Uh, exactly. Homeowner might own a gun, so I better carry a gun. Listen, I'm not going to go into anyone house and rob it, but if you can't see the line of reasoning behind that, you clearly have something blurred in there. If you're a robber, and don't have a weapon for intimidation, you won't do very well for yourself. It's not something I like, but it's pretty common human nature. You carry a gun when going into dangerous situations. Yes, let's just execute everyone, that's a great idea. Looking at the numbers there are hardly any people found innocent on death row... oh wait. Namely the poor folks who can't afford DNA testing are the ones the end up in jail for life even if they didn't commit the crime. I don't understand this "Lets just toss SOMEBODY in jail!" type mentality. I'd rather have 1000 guilty people set free than one innocent person found guilty.

Sandtrapjack: Do you have a link. I want to know exactly what happened with these guys. You make it sound like they were constantly arrested. I'm not sure I buy it to be honest. These guys are complete losers, no doubt. And deserve the book that the judge will hopefully throw at them. I want these guys locked up, don't get it twisted. However, I don't think they're the hardened criminal you think they are, you keep using words like arrested, charges, etc. I'm not seeing where you say "convicted" anywhere, and that's an important word. When you go into court they can't say "You were suspected of this, thus your penalty will be harsher."

Re: What angers us most about Sean Taylors death
 

[QUOTE=Daseal;388748]Uh, exactly. Homeowner might own a gun, so I better carry a gun. Listen, I'm not going to go into anyone house and rob it, but if you can't see the line of reasoning behind that, you clearly have something blurred in there. If you're a robber, and don't have a weapon for intimidation, you won't do very well for yourself. It's not something I like, but it's pretty common human nature. You carry a gun when going into dangerous situations. Yes, let's just execute everyone, that's a great idea. Looking at the numbers there are hardly any people found innocent on death row... oh wait. Namely the poor folks who can't afford DNA testing are the ones the end up in jail for life even if they didn't commit the crime. I don't understand this "Lets just toss SOMEBODY in jail!" type mentality. I'd rather have 1000 guilty people set free than one innocent person found guilty.

Sandtrapjack: Do you have a link. I want to know exactly what happened with these guys. You make it sound like they were constantly arrested. I'm not sure I buy it to be honest. These guys are complete losers, no doubt. And deserve the book that the judge will hopefully throw at them. I want these guys locked up, don't get it twisted. However, I don't think they're the hardened criminal you think they are, you keep using words like arrested, charges, etc. I'm not seeing where you say "convicted" anywhere, and that's an important word. When you go into court they can't say "You were suspected of this, thus your penalty will be harsher."[/QUOTE]

With the age these kids were, I doubt their first instinct was to kill Sean Taylor. They've probably never robbed a house before and weren't expecting to see anyone there. Therefore, they panicked and just shot, without the intention of killing...as they said. I can believe this story, but I don't know about anyone else.

Re: What angers us most about Sean Taylors death
 

[quote]With the age these kids were, I doubt their first instinct was to kill Sean Taylor. They've probably never robbed a house before and weren't expecting to see anyone there. Therefore, they panicked and just shot, without the intention of killing...as they said. I can believe this story, but I don't know about anyone else.[/quote]

Honestly man, I'm 100% with you. I feel like they were just going to rob the place, didn't know anyone was home. Got scared, shot off two rounds and ran. I mean, if you're trying to kill someone, you don't exactly aim for the leg. I mean, they'll definitely be put in jail for a long time (maybe death, not sure of Florida law) and they deserve it. It was just a bad turn of events, and as I said earlier, if this bullet hits 1 inch another way -- we're talking about ST ready to go next year.

Re: What angers us most about Sean Taylors death
 

[QUOTE=Daseal;388758]Honestly man, I'm 100% with you. I feel like they were just going to rob the place, didn't know anyone was home. Got scared, shot off two rounds and ran. I mean, if you're trying to kill someone, you don't exactly aim for the leg. I mean, they'll definitely be put in jail for a long time (maybe death, not sure of Florida law) and they deserve it. It was just a bad turn of events, and as I said earlier, if this bullet hits 1 inch another way -- we're talking about ST ready to go next year.[/QUOTE]

I wish I would know more about the FL law as well. But I honestly think even if the kids would have missed the second time, they wouldn't have continued shooting just to hit him. If you opened a bedroom door and didn't expect anyone to be in there...then when you busted the door open and a guy is standing there with a machete, I'm sure anyone would panic.

Re: What angers us most about Sean Taylors death
 

[quote=Daseal;388748]
Sandtrapjack: Do you have a link. I want to know exactly what happened with these guys. You make it sound like they were constantly arrested. I'm not sure I buy it to be honest. These guys are complete losers, no doubt. And deserve the book that the judge will hopefully throw at them. I want these guys locked up, don't get it twisted. However, I don't think they're the hardened criminal you think they are, you keep using words like arrested, charges, etc. I'm not seeing where you say "convicted" anywhere, and that's an important word. When you go into court they can't say "You were suspected of this, thus your penalty will be harsher."[/quote]

Nope no link. Just what is being put out there in the papers. Nothing takes away from the fact that the accused had a criminal background that included burglary, theft and gun related crimes. The ages of the accused indicate that they were juveniles when their previous indiscretions occured. Those records are sealed. So that is why you won't see the word "convicted" in the papers.

Now when they are arraigned in Miami, they will make the decision whther or not to try the juveniles as adults. If that happens, you will see those juvenile records opened and we will see what those previous crimes actually were.

Not to mention that juvenile courts are much easier and less stringent on crimes in the hope of rehabilitaion at a young age.

Re: What angers us most about Sean Taylors death
 

[quote=Mwoody85;388679].....I bet you were singing a different tune when Sean Taylor picked up gun charges.[/quote]

No more than you were doing when Michael Irvin got caught with a joint and a hooker.

Lets not go there dude. I have always been very respectful of this site and extremely respectful of the Redskins organization as a whole.

Taylor was the best damn FS in the NFL. I knew it before he died, and I know it now that he is gone. And as much as I rooted against the Redskins, I would watch them to see ST "lay out the lumber" on someone. He was FUN to watch.

Re: What angers us most about Sean Taylors death
 

The thing we all have to remember at times is this, this shit happens everyday. Just not to public figures. Their are many tears shed everyday. Fallen men good and bad. See you on the other side friends.

Re: What angers us most about Sean Taylors death
 

I guess different states have different laws using a gun while committing a crime. I think here in Va. it ups the charges and if anyone is killed then it is 1st degree murder. I'm curious to who this 5th suspect is.

Re: What angers us most about Sean Taylors death
 

[QUOTE=Lady Brave;388700]The only problem with your argument is that none of the defendants have shown a history of assault.

I've been waiting for this argument to come up. I've worked in the courts and law enforcement for 16 years. I've pretty much heard it all and can't really get worked up over it anymore. [B]Bottom line, everything starts at home. Stop expecting the courts to raise your children for you.[/B][/QUOTE]

Amen to that.

When I was a cop I routinely got calls where the parents expected me to solve their child's misbehavior. I got calls because a kid was misbehaving at the mall, because a teenager threw a cup at a wall in his room, and more often then not because the kid was mouthing off and being a little douchebag.

Early on I tried being nice, professional, compassionate and so on, only to realize it was an utter waste of time and logically impossible for me to have ANY impact on these kids in my 5-10 minute run in.

My last week on the job, I got a call where a mother was complaining that her 15 year old daughter wouldn't behave, wouldn't clean up her room and was "givin' me lip." I got on scene and the mother marched over and told me to go talk to her daughter and straighten her out, all the while shouting back to her daughter that I was "gonna fix things."

I walked up to the woman, looked her right in the eye, waited for her to stop shouting, and said "M'aam, I can't undue in 5 minutes what you've spent the last 15 years screwing up." I then turned around and left.

Long anecdote, but my point is, along with Lady Brave, this stuff starts at home, not in the courts, not on the streets, but in the living rooms and bedrooms of urban and suburban America.

The fault rests on the parents.

Re: What angers us most about Sean Taylors death
 

[quote=mheisig;388777]"M'aam, I can't undue in 5 minutes what you've spent the last 15 years screwing up." [/quote]

Best line right there! I love it!

Re: What angers us most about Sean Taylors death
 

[QUOTE=sandtrapjack;388780]Best line right there! I love it![/QUOTE]

I wish I could claim the idea was originally mine, but I heard it from one of my training officers. Never had the balls to say it until I'd be on a little while.

Re: What angers us most about Sean Taylors death
 

This is what angers me most about Taylor's death:

[url=http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/peter_king/12/02/week13/index.html]SI.com - Writers - Peter King: Redskins remember Taylor; Week 13 breakdown - Monday December 3, 2007 10:31AM[/url]
[quote]A sad part of the story, of course, is a child growing up fatherless, for no good reason. But another sad part, and one that will make good people across the NFL cringe, is that Samuels, a gentlemen among gentleman, will be applying for a permit to own a gun this week.

"I was always scared of guns growing up,'' Samuels said. "But this situation has told me I need one. I'd rather be prepared than to be like Sean was, and not have a gun in his house when he really needed it. I'm going to go through all the proper procedures, get a license, get training for it, and have it in my house, where I lay my head at night.

"I wish a lot of people thought like I did, that violence is bad. But unfortunately that's not the way the world is. Sometimes the world is not a nice place. It's sad I have to get a gun.''

And that's yet another tragedy of Sean Taylor's death.[/quote]

And while I am neither a member of the NRA nor an anti-gun activist, it saddens me when I read things like this. It's a damn shame that a man cannot feel safe in his own home, that he feels he MUST go out and get protection beyond what is normally necessary.

Re: What angers us most about Sean Taylors death
 

[quote=sandtrapjack;388736]Not expecting the courts to raise children. However I do expect and must insist that they hold people accountable for thier actions.

Thier job is to protect the public, plain and simple. Something went awry in this instance and Taylor paid the ultimate price.

[B]Where did you hear that the defendants have not showm a history of assault? [/B]I have not heard that. That not withstanding, burgalry, theft and gun charges...hmmmm I can put 2 and 2 together and tell you that these are people who pose a clear and present danger to the public's safety. Hence get them off the street before they kill someone.

Too late.

So what do they tell Taylors family and little girl....

"OOPS" is about all they could muster.

How many times in our society have we witnessed this same string of circumstances? Person convicted of gun charges in January, is arrested for murder with a firearm in June. How many? Check CNN.COM and yo uwill see a story like this almost every day.

A registered sex offender/rapist is arrested and charged with kidnapping a little girl, raping and killing her.

It just happens too often in our society. And I am not talking about isolated instances/offenses. [B]Hundreds of MULTIPLE OFFENDERS are let go with probation, or, poor management in the system.[/B]

And that is the reason I read that some of the posters here keep a gun in thier night stand. And why Taylor kept a weapon in his bedroom. [B]Because there are a**hole predators out there put back in society by our courts, when thier criminal heistory clearly dictates that they be incarcerated. [/B]

[B]I cannot accept "jail/prison over crowding" as an excuse[/B], or, going to war is taking away funds to build new prisons. Capital offenses are at the state level and part of the state judicial systems and not the federal gov't. I cannot accept these excuses becasue this problem has been going on for generations and nothing has been done about it. [B]They just say "overcrowding" and take that as an acceptable excuse. It's not.[/B]

China maybe an oppresive gov't, but when it comes to crime, especially violent crime, they are quick and decisive. Commit a violent crime in China, you are part of the weekly executions. Two bullets in the back of the head. And the expense of the bullets is charges to the condemned's family. Harsh and cold....yes. But that country has the largest population in the world, but has the LOWEST crime rate.[/quote]
You know jack, I had a really long response to this, but just couldn't bring myself to post it. Unless you've worked in criminal justice, you will never understand it.

I will address a couple of points you raised though. (bolded)

Rivera is the only juvenile and the only one who had a prior weapons possession charge. All the other defendant's had prior theft and drug related charges. None of them have been charged with assault as far as I know. I supposed I could run their NCIC backgrounds while I'm sitting here, but I don't think the FBI would appreciate that very much right now.

As far the courts releasing defendants who you feel should be locked away, you do realized that judges are bound by sentencing guidelines right? Who makes up those guidelines? Politicians. It's not the judges sitting on the bench. Politcians like to stay in office, so that means they don't like raising taxes, which means they don't want to ask for money to build all the prisons it would take for us to put away all the people you feel should be locked up. Hence, that's why sentencing guidelines are becoming more and more relaxed. It's all about "rehab" and "alternatives to incarceration" now. They cost less to operate and that makes the public happy.

As to your assertions on prison overcrowding. I'm sitting here in an overcrowded detention facility right now. It's not an excuse. It's a reality. We have a rated capacity of 671 inmates and we're currently housing over 900. We need a jail desperately, but the public doesn't want to pay for it. If you have any suggestions on how to eleviate our overcrowding problem and make society as a whole understand the importance of funding our inmate population, then I'm all ears.

Re: What angers us most about Sean Taylors death
 

From a grand scheme standpoint, it angers me that we live in a society that continues to glorify violence and outlandish behavior. I'm not saying that hip hop records or violent movies and video games directly led to this murder, but its this perverted glorification which seems to make it almost alright for young black men to shoot up other young black men. There needs to be a MUCH greater sense of outrage over the carnage that occurs in our cities EVERYDAY. There must be zero tolerance, yet you constantly hear about the "no snitching" code of conduct, which in my mind, condones the violence.

From another standpoint, I feel terrible for little Jackie, having to grow up without her father. It broke my heart to see such a vibrant little girl at the funeral yesterday.

From a selfish standpoint, I hate that we won't get to see Taylor and Landry form the greatest safety tandem in the NFL. They were well on their way. Just imagine how scary they would have been in 2-3 years. We're left to imagine possibilities that will never happen now.

Re: What angers us most about Sean Taylors death
 

I am saddened by losing someone who was a hard working, descent caring human being. It would be greedy to say I misss him because our Redskins will suffer, but what happened here is so much larger than football - a father and great person was lost forever.

As far as anger, I wish that those reponsible would just come out and admit what they did instead of trying to play the "I didn't know the other guy had the gun" or "I didn't know we were going to shot someone". Reports from the Washington Post have stated that lawyers for the suspects are already making the case that some of the clients did not know that others were armed and had the intention of possibly shooting someone. Why can't people ever jusy come out and take reponsiblity for their actions instead of fabricating excuses?

Here is an excerpt from the Post article:
Hunte's attorney, Michael F. Hornung, described his client as "very distraught." He said Hunte was lured into driving the others to Taylor's house without any idea of where they were going or that Taylor's house was the target.
"He's very upset. He's scared," Hornung said. "As far as his involvement, it's de minimus."
Wilbur Smith, the attorney for Rivera, declined to confirm reports that his client was the gunman, saying only that "he's in disbelief over what occurred. His expression to me is: 'I can't believe this kind of thing happened, and that I'm in this, and that man is dead.' "
[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/04/AR2007120400724.html]washingtonpost.com[/url]

Re: What angers us most about Sean Taylors death
 

[quote=Lady Brave;388802]You know jack, I had a really long response to this, but just couldn't bring myself to post it. Unless you've worked in criminal justice, you will never understand it.

I will address a couple of points you raised though. (bolded)

Rivera is the only juvenile and the only one who had a prior weapons possession charge. All the other defendant's had prior theft and drug related charges. None of them have been charged with assault as far as I know. I supposed I could run their NCIC backgrounds while I'm sitting here, but I don't think the FBI would appreciate that very much right now.

As far the courts releasing defendants who you feel should be locked away, you do realized that judges are bound by sentencing guidelines right? Who makes up those guidelines? Politicians. It's not the judges sitting on the bench. Politcians like to stay in office, so that means they don't like raising taxes, which means they don't want to ask for money to build all the prisons it would take for us to put away all the people you feel should be locked up. Hence, that's why sentencing guidelines are becoming more and more relaxed. It's all about "rehab" and "alternatives to incarceration" now. They cost less to operate and that makes the public happy.

As to your assertions on prison overcrowding. I'm sitting here in an overcrowded detention facility right now. It's not an excuse. It's a reality. We have a rated capacity of 671 inmates and we're currently housing over 900. We need a jail desperately, but the public doesn't want to pay for it. If you have any suggestions on how to eleviate our overcrowding problem and make society as a whole understand the importance of funding our inmate population, then I'm all ears.[/quote]

Then I shall partially yield to your experience. I knew all that you stated already, but it does not mean it is right, or just.

You say it is not an excuse it is a reality. You are absolutlely, 100%, no arguement from me CORRECT. But does that mean we have to accept it? Does it mean we say "there's nothing we can do, so accept it."?

Yes judges have guidelines, and yes those guidelines are established by poiliticians. Politicians that are elected to office. So I guess that means it is our fault. We have taken it from the home, taken it from the justice system and come full circle right back into the publics lap. Since we elected the officials who are making these guidelines, right?

Which is my answer to your statement about suggestions. My answer is I am doing all that I can and it starts in my home. I teach my children the difference between right and wrong. When they were young my wife and I made a point that when they walked through the door from school, a friends house, or anywhere, one of us was always home. My wife put her career on hold for 16 years so we could do just that. It was important to us, and them. The other thing that I do....vote. I vote for those officials who are tough on crime. I vote for those officials whose platform is crime reduction.

But you have justified my first post in this thread. You said that Rivera had a previous gun charge? Well it is being reported by CNN that Rivera is the alledged shooter. So we have a man with a previous weapons charge, back on the street and the first thing he did was get a gun and go shoot someone. I don't care if people think it was intentional or not. If he did not intend to use a gun then why did he put bullets in it? Or even take it along? Answer is he had it just in case he DID need to shoot someone. He had made up his mind that if he felt he needed to he was going to shoot someone.

Re: What angers us most about Sean Taylors death
 

I understand your sentiments sandtrapjack. I cannot tell you how upset I get when I read articles on CNN about a sex offender who, while out on parole, kidnapped and killed a young child. Moreover, in Wisconsin for example, two-thirds of all felons who are released from prison are likely to be charged with another felony at some point in their lives. So, I understand why many members of the public want to increase the minimum and maximum sentences, do away with parole, and amend the sentencing guidelines.

However, as others like Lady Brave have so eloquently noted, there are a whole host of problems with making sweeping changes to the justice system to eliminate the problem of recidivist criminal activity. From a practical standpoint, prisons are already overcrowded and prisons cost a LOT of money to build and maintain. If you want to lengthen sentences, be prepared to support increasing taxes. From an ethical standpoint, it's complicated. I've worked in a Federal prison (Oxford FCI) and I've gotten to know a lot of criminals. Not all of them are the dangerous monsters that you think they are; many have been caught in VERY unfortunate situations, hung out with the wrong people, had no supervision or guidance growing up, screwed up, and lived to regret it.

Should we punish all convicted criminals by lengthening their sentences because some of them will re-offend? That's not a rhetorical question; it's a question that doesn't have a satisfactory answer. By lengthening sentences because some may re-offend aren't you handing out punishments that are in excess of what is fair for what they were convicted of? Isn't that judging and punishing every criminal for things that they haven't done? Moreover, if criminals are bound to re-offend, lengthening sentences does not stop crime from taking place, it just delays it (unless you intend to impose life sentences on all criminals).

I don't know what the right answer is. It's an interesting question that doesn't have any simple answers.

Re: What angers us most about Sean Taylors death
 

What angers me the most..Is how someone took someones dad away...Thats what angers me the most about this..How could anyone be so heartless.

Re: What angers us most about Sean Taylors death
 

Aside for the human tragedy which is most important, what angers me as a football fan between the white lines is that we are robbed of seeing this guy turn into a once in a lifetime football player.

ST was special as a football player and unique in what he could do. How many decades are we going to have to wait to see another like him...if ever...and if that comes along, what are the oods he will be a Skin?

ST we will miss you