Grand jury identifies Rivera as gunman in death of Taylor
 

I sure hope they charge this piece of trash as an adult. I’ll be pretty pissed off if he get’s out in a few years because he was 17 when he shot Sean.

[url=http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3140889]ESPN - Grand jury identifies Rivera as gunman in death of Taylor - NFL[/url]

Re: Grand jury identifies Rivera as gunman in death of Taylor
 

Any judge who tries a 17 year old cold-blooded murdering thug as a juvenile should be removed from the bench. I noticed that Rivera was on the shorter side. Tough guy when he has a gun - We'll see how tough he is when mixed with more hardened criminals.

Re: Grand jury identifies Rivera as gunman in death of Taylor
 

[quote=Riggo44;388957]I sure hope they charge this piece of trash as an adult. I’ll be pretty pissed off if he get’s out in a few years because he was 17 when he shot Sean.

[URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3140889"]ESPN - Grand jury identifies Rivera as gunman in death of Taylor - NFL[/URL][/quote]
They generally charge 16 & 17 year olds as adults in these crimes.

Re: Grand jury identifies Rivera as gunman in death of Taylor
 

[quote=Riggo44;388957]I sure hope they charge this piece of trash as an adult. I’ll be pretty pissed off if he get’s out in a few years because he was 17 when he shot Sean.

[URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3140889"]ESPN - Grand jury identifies Rivera as gunman in death of Taylor - NFL[/URL][/quote]

I remember when I was 17 and I did some silly stuff. Throw snowballs at police cars, drank beer, toilet papered some chicks houses. Just stupid stuff. But never ever ever did me and my friends have a gun nor would we ever break into someones house and steal something. I just can't imagine what the hell these guys were thinking. Didn't they see a car in the driveway? I mean I'm just still in shock over this. But I'll tell you what. I'm considering buying a gun now. I would have no problem blowing some little punk's head off if my house was invaded.

Re: Grand jury identifies Rivera as gunman in death of Taylor
 

It's such BS that they didn't expect Sean to be home.. They took a LOADED gun into a residence. You don't do that if you don't plan to use it. I hope they throw the book at these punks. Literally and figuratively. I hope it's a nice big fat book too.

Re: Grand jury identifies Rivera as gunman in death of Taylor
 

Per Florida's statutes, the state's attorney can file a "discretionary waiver" which is a motion requesting the court [COLOR=#000000]to transfer the child for criminal prosecution if the child was 14 years of age or older at the time the alleged delinquent act or violation of law was committed. [/COLOR]

He's going to be tried as an adult. All I can say is Florida isn't wasting any time. The case is already transferred from juvenile court and an indictment issued in a week? That's really fast.

Re: Grand jury identifies Rivera as gunman in death of Taylor
 

the sooner they're in the ground the better

Re: Grand jury identifies Rivera as gunman in death of Taylor
 

Look if any of you are looking for the death penalty for any of these guys you can forget it. The shooter is 17 and the Supreme Court just ruled that it's Unconstitutional to exucute anyone under 18. The rest of these idiots are not even eligible for the death penalty under Florida law.

My big concern is this. Some of these guys will make it back into society one day and believe you me chances are they will be ten times as worthless and 100 times a bigger threat to the general public. There is no justice in that. This nightmare has no end in sight. Or maybe we can start to change things. We gotta get rid of many of the types of the guns in our society that are most frequently used in violent crimes. Period.

Re: Grand jury identifies Rivera as gunman in death of Taylor
 

I have 3 friends getting guns cus of this.

A gun is an American's Right and Choice and I am not advizing either way. As a non-Active Duty Marine I have a weapon but take it VERY serious. It was made to KILL. Period. Guns are not very serious and I know we have folks on both sides of the fence.

If you use a gun in a crime you should get the MAX of the law. Death or Life...the MAX

Re: Grand jury identifies Rivera as gunman in death of Taylor
 

Hey I'm not advocating no guns. We just need like you said harsher laws and stronger controls on certain types of guns IMO.

Re: Grand jury identifies Rivera as gunman in death of Taylor
 

What I dont get is if they thought he wasnt home. Why would they go straight to his bedroom? Was they planing on attacking Jackie? Were they clearing the house and Sean scared them? Just doesnt make sense fucking scum balls should line up for a firing squad with Taylors family with guns. Eye for an Eye!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: Grand jury identifies Rivera as gunman in death of Taylor
 

[quote=wilsowilso;388980]Look if any of you are looking for the death penalty for any of these guys you can forget it. The shooter is 17 and the Supreme Court just ruled that it's Unconstitutional to exucute anyone under 18. The rest of these idiots are not even eligible for the death penalty under Florida law.

My big concern is this. Some of these guys will make it back into society one day and believe you me chances are they will be ten times as worthless and 100 times a bigger threat to the general public. There is no justice in that. This nightmare has no end in sight. Or maybe we can start to change things. We gotta get rid of many of the types of the guns in our society that are most frequently used in violent crimes. Period.[/quote]

My Juvenile Delinquency teacher said by time these guys sit, and then go to trial and then if they have to deal with appeals and such, the guy will probably be 18.

I mean unless the kid either JUST turned 17 or they're gonna throw this thing in court as fast as they can, there's a chance he'll turn 18 before sentencing.

And in violent cases such as murder and rape, juveniles almost always get waived to adult status.

I SERIOUSLY doubt he'll get first degree murder/capital murder because the murder itself wasn't premeditated. Shooter's probably looking at life without the possibility of parole. (Sorry for everyone who wanted him to fry) :(

Re: Grand jury identifies Rivera as gunman in death of Taylor
 

[quote=Staylor2121;388987]What I dont get is if they thought he wasnt home. Why would they go straight to his bedroom? Was they planing on attacking Jackie? Were they clearing the house and Sean scared them? Just doesnt make sense fucking scum balls should line up for a firing squad with Taylors family with guns. Eye for an Eye!!!!!!!!!!!![/quote]

They scoped out the house during Sean's party, apparently they were guests. They probably went straight towards the bedroom cause hey, isn't that where most people keep money/jewelry/expensive things in their house?

Sean and the intruders probably ran into each other, shooter got startled and pulled the trigger.

Re: Grand jury identifies Rivera as gunman in death of Taylor
 

[quote=Sammy Baugh Fan;388983]I have 3 friends getting guns cus of this.

A gun is an American's Right and Choice and I am not advizing either way. As a non-Active Duty Marine I have a weapon but take it VERY serious. It was made to KILL. Period. Guns are not very serious and I know we have folks on both sides of the fence.

If you use a gun in a crime you should get the MAX of the law. Death or Life...the MAX[/quote]

I don't really advocate gun use. I DEFINITELY am not one of those people who are like get rid of all of them. Cause in the US that's definitely not gonna work. Crime would run CRAZY rampant then. I just wish there was a better tactic so that good people could keep guns for protection and criminals/drug dealers couldn't. I mean, cause if it's coming into my house and it ends up being like a showdown at the ok corral, i'm probably gonna be the one to lose.

I just know I could never have a gun. I'd probably shoot it and the recoil would be so bad, it'd fly out my hands like something out of bad police academy movie. :doh:

Re: Grand jury identifies Rivera as gunman in death of Taylor
 

THis was bad enough, but the last thing I want to see is more people getting guns. I enjoy shooting guns for fun, go to Blue Ridge Arsenal sometimes, but I don't think it's ever something I could have in my house.

(Talking about hand guns, not hunting rifles, etc)

Re: Grand jury identifies Rivera as gunman in death of Taylor
 

more hand guns in houses = more dead children :/.

not everyone is responsible or careful enough for that to ever be a great idea.

I do understand that with all the guns currently out and the fact that an illegal weapons charge means nothing to a murderer that gun control laws don't really work well in practice. And i have nothing against the second amendment, but i did read about wynn's friends playing with a gun when he was a kid (and one of them ended up dead), and a month ago someone i know blew his big toe off playing with a gun in his room, and it's not like those things are isolated incidents. some people are just too accident prone or stupid to be trusted with loaded weapons.

Re: Grand jury identifies Rivera as gunman in death of Taylor
 

I say we hang these guys.

Re: Grand jury identifies Rivera as gunman in death of Taylor
 

Unfortunately, can't fry the shooter if he was under 17 when it took place, per the Supreme Court.

(It matters only the age at which it took place, not the age at sentencing.)

This got John Malvo off the fryer, if you remember.

My wife wondered if maybe the others agreed to say the 17 yr old did it for just that reason.


Don't know FL law about whether or not they have a 'triggerman statute' determining if only the triggerman can be given the Death penalty.

Almost certainly will be LWOP (Life Without Opportunity for Parole) case.

J-Dawg.

Re: Grand jury identifies Rivera as gunman in death of Taylor
 

At 17 he's no child. I'd imagine it's not too difficult to tell right from wrong at that age. Hopefully he'll be lucky enough to be someones bitch in the pen.

Re: Grand jury identifies Rivera as gunman in death of Taylor
 

[quote=jgalecpa;389104]Unfortunately, can't fry the shooter if he was under 17 when it took place, per the Supreme Court.

(It matters only the age at which it took place, not the age at sentencing.)

This got John Malvo off the fryer, if you remember.

My wife wondered if maybe the others agreed to say the 17 yr old did it for just that reason.


Don't know FL law about whether or not they have a 'triggerman statute' determining if only the triggerman can be given the Death penalty.

Almost certainly will be LWOP (Life Without Opportunity for Parole) case.

J-Dawg.[/quote]

Spoke to my friend who used to work in the Florida judicial system - even though the others did not pull the trigger they can all be tried for the death penalty (as long as they are over 18 like you said) according to Florida law. My friend went on to say that Reed Rubin is the prosecutor in the case and he is tough as nails and will most likely go full force in getting as long a sentence as possible for all the defendents or death if possible. Also my friend went on to tell me that life in prison in Florida means their entire living years (not like some states where life may mean a certain number of years) and that there will be no possibility of parole for these guys unless the governor grants Clemency which has not happened in Florida I believe ever. Finally the judge who is overseeing the case is a former prosecutor and is not light on criminals per my friends dealings with him - even if this is a trial by jury these guys are in a world of trouble. My friend said the only way one of these guys doesn't get life is if they make a plea deal turning on the others and maybe he would get a lesser sentence like 25-30 years.

Here is an excerpt from USA that states what these guys are facing:
If the suspects are convicted of first-degree murder, all but the juvenile could be handed a death sentence. While he is expected to be charged as an adult, the juvenile would instead face 25 years to life in prison, as Florida law prohibits executing those who were minors at the time of the crime.

[url=http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/2007-12-01-taylor-case_N.htm]Suspects charged with murder in Sean Taylor case - USATODAY.com[/url]

Re: Grand jury identifies Rivera as gunman in death of Taylor
 

I'm actually getting a gun because of this. This hasn't necessarily motivated me to get a gun, but just started my train of thought.

I'm moving to College park in less than a month. It's a rather dangerous campus and robberies like this happen all the time. No kids going to stumble upon it, and I'm going to be ridiculously careful.

The fact is, shit like this happens all the time, and if I'm strapped... It won't happen to me.

Re: Grand jury identifies Rivera as gunman in death of Taylor
 

That Douchebag Rivera wants to get a peal deal ... well f#ck him hopefully we burns in his jail cell for life... he wont get one and will become someones bitch for a longtime... fuckin punk bitch

Re: Grand jury identifies Rivera as gunman in death of Taylor
 

No, no. I am sure he will do just fine in prison. After all, there probably isn't anyone from the "U" in the Miami-Dade correctional system that might want to do him harm...

Re: Grand jury identifies Rivera as gunman in death of Taylor
 

[QUOTE=Sammy Baugh Fan;388983]I have 3 friends getting guns cus of this.

[B]A gun is an American's Right and Choice [/B]and I am not advizing either way. As a non-Active Duty Marine I have a weapon but take it VERY serious. It was made to KILL. Period. Guns are not very serious and I know we have folks on both sides of the fence.

If you use a gun in a crime you should get the MAX of the law. Death or Life...the MAX[/QUOTE]

Completely agree.

Re: Grand jury identifies Rivera as gunman in death of Taylor
 

[QUOTE=RobH4413;389171]I'm actually getting a gun because of this. This hasn't necessarily motivated me to get a gun, but just started my train of thought.

I'm moving to College park in less than a month. It's a rather dangerous campus and robberies like this happen all the time. No kids going to stumble upon it, and I'm going to be ridiculously careful.

The fact is, shit like this happens all the time, and if I'm strapped... It won't happen to me.[/QUOTE]

If you're serious, get training. Spend time at the range. Don't just buy it and carry it.

Re: Grand jury identifies Rivera as gunman in death of Taylor
 

[QUOTE=That Guy;389045]more hand guns in houses = more dead children :/.

not everyone is responsible or careful enough for that to ever be a great idea.

I do understand that with all the guns currently out and the fact that an illegal weapons charge means nothing to a murderer that gun control laws don't really work well in practice. And i have nothing against the second amendment, but i did read about wynn's friends [B]playing[/B] with a gun when he was a kid (and one of them ended up dead), and a month ago someone i know blew his big toe off [B]playing[/B] with a gun in his room, and it's not like those things are isolated incidents. some people are just too accident prone or stupid to be trusted with loaded weapons.[/QUOTE]

I think those are the important words in that post. You're right, if you don't have the responsibility to handle a weapon responsibly and the intelligence to keep it away from children, do not own a gun. Period.

Re: Grand jury identifies Rivera as gunman in death of Taylor
 

[QUOTE=wilsowilso;388980]Look if any of you are looking for the death penalty for any of these guys you can forget it. The shooter is 17 and the Supreme Court just ruled that it's Unconstitutional to exucute anyone under 18. The rest of these idiots are not even eligible for the death penalty under Florida law.

My big concern is this. Some of these guys will make it back into society one day and believe you me chances are they will be ten times as worthless and 100 times a bigger threat to the general public. There is no justice in that. This nightmare has no end in sight. Or maybe we can start to change things. We gotta get rid of many of the types of the guns in our society that are most frequently used in violent crimes. Period.[/QUOTE]


Does it really matter what type of guns are used to kill a person?????????????

Or as Archie Bunker would say "would it make you feel better if they were pushed out of windows!"

The fact is we have laws against murder don't we, yet we still get scum like this who will thumb their nose at the consequences and murder any way, we will never get rid of crime but we can get rid of the criminal, execute their asses and move on. Perhaps the fact that these guys aren't around in 2 years just might help encourage other's not to murder, and if they do they will be dead in a couple of years! Guns are not the problem, the consequences that are supposed to help deter such acts of violence are.

Re: Grand jury identifies Rivera as gunman in death of Taylor
 

[QUOTE=That Guy;389045]more hand guns in houses = more dead children :/.

not everyone is responsible or careful enough for that to ever be a great idea.

I do understand that with all the guns currently out and the fact that an illegal weapons charge means nothing to a murderer that gun control laws don't really work well in practice. And i have nothing against the second amendment, but i did read about wynn's friends playing with a gun when he was a kid (and one of them ended up dead), and a month ago someone i know blew his big toe off playing with a gun in his room, and it's not like those things are isolated incidents. some people are just too accident prone or stupid to be trusted with loaded weapons.[/QUOTE]


It's to bad Taylor didn't have a gun under his bed rather than a machete, there's a good chance he would be alive today.

Criminals will always find a weopon, the innocent need to be able to defend, and protect themselves, as well as their families from this kind of vermin.

Re: Grand jury identifies Rivera as gunman in death of Taylor
 

more guns equal more killing. its simple math. the second amendment rights will be settled in early 2008 by the supreme court. its something that was needed back in the early days. not so much anymore. i wonder how many gun owners would give up their guns, if it meant saving just one life? i would give up some of my personal enjoyments, if i could save someone from dying

Re: Grand jury identifies Rivera as gunman in death of Taylor
 

[quote=saden1;389107][B]At 17 he's no child[/B]. I'd imagine it's not too difficult to tell right from wrong at that age. Hopefully he'll be lucky enough to be someones bitch in the pen.[/quote]
i can tell from this that you are a young man. no one at age 17 thinks the same way a mature 25 year old does. think about when you were that age. and your thought process. youth always thinks its never going to get caught, or never going to get hurt. and no, im not defending him. but at 17, he still is a kid

Re: Grand jury identifies Rivera as gunman in death of Taylor
 

Would you give up free speech to save one life?

Would you give up the right to vote to save one life?

I wouldn't, nor would I give up my second amendment rights.

Also, I might add that Taylor might also likely be alive had he simply installed an alarm system. When he returned to Miami the previous week, he could have had one put in that day. That might have been deterrent alone to keep these punks from trying it. A shame we will never know.

Re: Grand jury identifies Rivera as gunman in death of Taylor
 

Keyshawn Johnson had a great analogy on TV Sunday. said he went back to his hometown after his first season as a pro. was hell bent on raising his kids there. they all went into the barbershop where he had been getting his hair cut his whole life. while in the chair someone put a gun to his head, and robbed the whole shop. he knew right then and there he had to change his life style, and his choice of friends. and munny, i would give up any of my individual rights if it meant a more safe community, and country , in which i lived in

Re: Grand jury identifies Rivera as gunman in death of Taylor
 

[quote=HOGTIMUS PRIME;389241]It's to bad Taylor didn't have a gun under his bed rather than a machete, there's a good chance he would be alive today.

Criminals will always find a weopon, the innocent need to be able to defend, and protect themselves, as well as their families from this kind of vermin.[/quote]

Well hold on here, the reason Sean did not have a gun is because it was against the terms of his plea deal in the earlier weapons case against him.

You could very easily make the argument that had he not misused a weapon at that time, that he would have had access to a weapon at the time he needed it most, for it what it was designed for.

As always, this is not to say Sean had it coming or any of that nonsense, it just goes to show you the cycle of not respecting firearms and what havoc they can wreak. Casually brandishing a weapon is something that's far too prevalent in our society and it isn't always hardcore criminals engaged in it. Sometimes it's decent people who made the mistake of reaching for a gun rather than using their brain (or even just their fists).

Re: Grand jury identifies Rivera as gunman in death of Taylor
 

Sadly, IF Sean had had a gun and shot those men he probably would have gotten into some sort of trouble even with out the earlier plea deal. That's the cold hard truth of this world we live, even if the person is a criminal and they invade your home, somehow shooting them makes you a criminal too.

As for the guy with the gun who shot Sean. In all honesty if you opened a door to see a 6'2 200+ pound guy standing there with a machete I think you would panic a bit, especially if you expected no one to be home. Obviously the man was startled because the first shot missed and the 2nd hit a place where if I had a gun I wouldn't shoot someone. I would aim for the chest or head if I was going to take the plunge. I really think that the kid didn't mean to shoot or kill Sean he was just scared. For the record I am still not defending these criminals they all deserve a good time in jail.

Re: Grand jury identifies Rivera as gunman in death of Taylor
 

[QUOTE=BleedBurgundy;389221]I think those are the important words in that post. You're right, if you don't have the responsibility to handle a weapon responsibly and the intelligence to keep it away from children, do not own a gun. Period.[/QUOTE]

For that matter, irresponsible people/children shouldn't be playing with a lot of things: guns, ovens, matches, gasoline, cars, ATVs, motorcycles, knives and probably a thousand other things.

No one is advocating that every breathing moron go arm himself to the teeth, and no one is saying we should add loaded handguns to a child's toybox.

I, for one, was taught from a very young age the four basic rules of firearm safety and they've stuck with me ever since.

Of course I also grew up in a stable household with rational parents...go figure.

Re: Grand jury identifies Rivera as gunman in death of Taylor
 

[QUOTE=Cowell;389284]Sadly, IF Sean had had a gun and shot those men [B]he probably would have gotten into some sort of trouble even with out the earlier plea deal.[/B] That's the cold hard truth of this world we live, even if the person is a criminal and they invade your home, somehow shooting them makes you a criminal too.[/QUOTE]

Would the trouble he'd be in be worse than being dead?

Re: Grand jury identifies Rivera as gunman in death of Taylor
 

[QUOTE=dmek25;389253]more guns equal more killing. its simple math. the second amendment rights will be settled in early 2008 by the supreme court. its something that was needed back in the early days. not so much anymore. i wonder how many gun owners would give up their guns, if it meant saving just one life? i would give up some of my personal enjoyments, if i could save someone from dying[/QUOTE]

Having a gun has saved MY life. Not having a gun I'd be dead. Plain and simple.

You can look at "is it worth saving a life" from both sides of the coin.

Re: Grand jury identifies Rivera as gunman in death of Taylor
 

[QUOTE=mheisig;389294]Would the trouble he'd be in be worse than being dead?[/QUOTE]


Uh NO!

I wish he had a gun that night. If Sean had been able to fire a few shot's into the floor when he heard the noises I bet those pussies would have run away and Sean would be alive.
As the old saying goes you don't bring a knife to a gun fight.

Re: Grand jury identifies Rivera as gunman in death of Taylor
 

I wish he had installed a better security system and bought 3 or 4 Rottweiler’s to live in the yard.

Re: Grand jury identifies Rivera as gunman in death of Taylor
 

[QUOTE=Riggo44;389298]I wish he had installed a better security system and bought 3 or 4 Rottweiler’s to live in the yard.[/QUOTE]

Well he used to have 4 pitbulls that he got rid of after the whole Vick fiasco because he didn't want people giving him a hard time about it